Skeet

For Hyundaitech or anyone else with knowledge on a transmission/
warranty problem.

I have a 2000 Elantra that has 100,900 miles. It is a 5 sp manual and
while driving down the highway at 60 mph the car pops out of 5th
gear. Does anyone have any knowledge of this problem. My non-Hyundai
mechanic checked it out and said the 'sink rows' were bad for 5th
gear. I'm not knowledgable in this area at all. I took it to my
local Hyundai dealer and they wanted about $380 for 4 hours to
diagnose this by removing the transmission and take it apart. I'm not
sure that I want to invest a lot of money into this car. Any advice
on this problem--does it sound like sink rows? I called Hyundai and
they pretty much told me that it doesn't matter that it is over the
powertrain warranty by 900 miles. They mentioned a 'goodwill' program
where I pay for it up front and then a panel at Hyundai decides
whether or not to reimburse me for any of it. Anyone have experience
with the 'goodwill' program and what was your success in getting
reimbursed from Hyundai.

Skeet

Edwin Pawlowski

"Skeet" <skeetr1313@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7348128c-4ff1-4cd5-8a29-84eb5790d063@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com...
> For Hyundaitech or anyone else with knowledge on a transmission/
> warranty problem.
>
> I have a 2000 Elantra that has 100,900 miles. It is a 5 sp manual and
> while driving down the highway at 60 mph the car pops out of 5th
> gear. Does anyone have any knowledge of this problem. My non-Hyundai
> mechanic checked it out and said the 'sink rows' were bad for 5th
> gear.

Proper term is "syncros", short for syncronizers. They allow for the smotth
shift from gear to gear.


> I'm not knowledgable in this area at all. I took it to my
> local Hyundai dealer and they wanted about $380 for 4 hours to
> diagnose this by removing the transmission and take it apart. I'm not
> sure that I want to invest a lot of money into this car. Any advice
> on this problem--does it sound like sink rows?

Possible, but can also be a bent linkage.

I called Hyundai and
> they pretty much told me that it doesn't matter that it is over the
> powertrain warranty by 900 miles. They mentioned a 'goodwill' program
> where I pay for it up front and then a panel at Hyundai decides
> whether or not to reimburse me for any of it. Anyone have experience
> with the 'goodwill' program and what was your success in getting
> reimbursed from Hyundai.

It sucks when youy are that close in miles. Good luck.

Brian Nystrom

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Skeet" <skeetr1313@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:7348128c-4ff1-4cd5-8a29-84eb5790d063@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com...
>> For Hyundaitech or anyone else with knowledge on a transmission/
>> warranty problem.
>>
>> I have a 2000 Elantra that has 100,900 miles. It is a 5 sp manual and
>> while driving down the highway at 60 mph the car pops out of 5th
>> gear. Does anyone have any knowledge of this problem. My non-Hyundai
>> mechanic checked it out and said the 'sink rows' were bad for 5th
>> gear.
>
> Proper term is "syncros", short for syncronizers. They allow for the smotth
> shift from gear to gear.

Exactly, and at that mileage, they may well be worn out. However, while
worn synchro's would make shifting difficult (high effort and/or
grinding), I don't think they can cause the transmission to pop out of
gear. They're engaged during shifting, but once the transmission is in
gear, the synchro's don't do anything.

>> I'm not knowledgable in this area at all. I took it to my
>> local Hyundai dealer and they wanted about $380 for 4 hours to
>> diagnose this by removing the transmission and take it apart. I'm not
>> sure that I want to invest a lot of money into this car. Any advice
>> on this problem--does it sound like sink rows?
>
> Possible, but can also be a bent linkage.

Except that our transmission is cable operated. It could be a bad shift
cable.

> I called Hyundai and
>> they pretty much told me that it doesn't matter that it is over the
>> powertrain warranty by 900 miles. They mentioned a 'goodwill' program
>> where I pay for it up front and then a panel at Hyundai decides
>> whether or not to reimburse me for any of it. Anyone have experience
>> with the 'goodwill' program and what was your success in getting
>> reimbursed from Hyundai.

Yes, I did with my Excel. They actually covered a transmission rebuild
75% when the car was 4000 miles past warranty (the problem had started
while still under warranty). The problem was a combination of synchro
wear and bearing wear. They let me have it rebuilt at a local AAMCO
dealer (with a good reputation). AAMCO billed them for the transmission
rebuild and and a clutch replacement (something you should do as well)
and they paid 75% of the entire bill - which they agreed to do in
advance, in writing. That pretty much covered the entire cost of the
transmission rebuild. I had no problem with paying for the clutch
replacement myself, as it's considered a maintenance item. Essentially,
I paid for the parts and got the labor for nothing.

Overall, that was as good an outcome as I could have hoped for and I was
very impressed with Hyundai's service. That's one of the main reasons I
bought my Elantra when the Excel died at ~170k miles.

In your case, if the rest of the car is in good shape, get the
transmission rebuilt and replace the clutch. Even if you end up spending
$600-$800 on it, that's a LOT cheaper than a new car. You should get at
least another 50K miles out of the car.

hyundaitech

The one thing I can tell you for sure is that the problem is not your
synchronizers (synchros). Most likely, the 5th gear and the shift hub
sleeve are worn to where the teeth are no longer long enough to hold the
transmission in gear.

Ask for an estimate on replacing 5th gear and the 5th-reverse shift hub.
That's a good starting point for the minimum price you'll wind up paying.

Shop around a few places to see the range of prices. Do not get a quote
from the place that told you it was the synchros. This mechanic is not
knowledgeable enough to perform this repair. Also keep in mind that the
true fault will not be apparent until the transmission is disassembled,
and that you'll want a rebuild including the replacement of all worn
parts
(usually synchronizers would be included in this). This repair should be
done by an experienced, competent, and knowledgeable manual transmission
rebuilder.

Also call Hyundai customer assistance. See if you can get Hyundai to
commit to some sort of assistance based on a preliminary inspection at
the
dealer without finding the actual fault. For example, you might pay
labor
and they might pay parts. Or they might split the repair 50/50 with you.

Or they could even cover the whole thing. While the actual failure
cannot
be determined for certain without disassembling the transmission, a basic
inspection will allow the dealer to determine the car that has been
provided the transmission and its general condition. This may be
important for Hyundai in making a determination as to whether they'll
assist you. There is no committee. The factory representative for that
dealer will make the determination.

--
Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html

Skeet

On Jan 7, 1:26�pm, "hyundaitech" <notpub...@not.public.com> wrote:
> The one thing I can tell you for sure is that the problem is not your
> synchronizers (synchros). �Most likely, the 5th gear and the shifthub
> sleeve are worn to where the teeth are no longer long enough to hold the
> transmission in gear. �
>

Thanks that helps.

>>
> Also call Hyundai customer assistance. �See if you can get Hyundaito
> commit to some sort of assistance based on a preliminary inspection at
> the
> dealer without finding the actual fault. �For example, you might pay
> labor
> and they might pay parts. �Or they might split the repair 50/50 with you.
>
> Or they could even cover the whole thing. �While the actual failure
> cannot
> be determined for certain without disassembling the transmission, a basic
> inspection will allow the dealer to determine the car that has been
> provided the transmission and its general condition. �This may be
> important for Hyundai in making a determination as to whether they'll
> assist you. �There is no committee. �The factory representative for that
> dealer will make the determination.
>

Dealer repair manager called me back later and said he spoke to the
factory rep and they will NOT be covering anything. What is your best
advice for proceeding. MInd you that we still don't have the
transmission taken apart yet to find out what all will be needed to
repair. Also apparently from their initial look the car needs 2
axles. I have the idea that if i were to get this repaired at the
dealer I will pay way more than at a different shop--perhaps that is
incorrect.

Overall, what I am uncertain about is the best way to proceed in the
hopes that something might be covered by their goodwill program.
Hyundai Customer Service said that they need an actual diagnosis from
the Hyundai dealer which will cost about $380. Now I'm not giving up
on them covering something on it from the Goodwill program, but after
they diagnose it do I then have to have them fix it? And if I then
take it somewhere to get a cheaper rebuild, will I be paying all over
again.

Sorry, I'm just not in my element on transmissions and don't have a
lot of money laying around to invest in this car--yet of course need
the car.

> --
> Message posted usinghttp://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
> More information athttp://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html

Skeet

On Jan 7, 12:45�pm, Brian Nystrom <brian.nyst...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Yes, I did with my Excel. They actually covered a transmission rebuild
> 75% when the car was 4000 miles past warranty (the problem had started
> while still under warranty). The problem was a combination of synchro
> wear and bearing wear. They let me have it rebuilt at a local AAMCO
> dealer (with a good reputation). AAMCO billed them for the transmission
> rebuild and and a clutch replacement (something you should do as well)
> and they paid 75% of the entire bill - which they agreed to do in
> advance, in writing. That pretty much covered the entire cost of the
> transmission rebuild. I had no problem with paying for the clutch
> replacement myself, as it's considered a maintenance item. Essentially,
> I paid for the parts and got the labor for nothing.

Did you have it first diagnosed at the dealer? Or did you take it to
AAMCO and get their estimate and then go back to Hyundai with the data
and ask them to cover it and have it repaired at AAMCO? My question
is what was the sequence on how you got Hyundai to cover it--
especially getting repaired at an outside shop?



> Overall, that was as good an outcome as I could have hoped for and I was
> very impressed with Hyundai's service. That's one of the main reasons I
> bought my Elantra when the Excel died at ~170k miles.
>

How much did you use a local Hyundai dealer, if at all?


> In your case, if the rest of the car is in good shape, get the
> transmission rebuilt and replace the clutch. Even if you end up spending
> $600-$800 on it, that's a LOT cheaper than a new car. You should get at
> least another 50K miles out of the car.

The car also needs 2 axles according to the dealer. In May of 2007 I
had one replaced, and I don't recall the specific reason other than
there was a boot or something that is packed with grease around the
axle and it was cracked. Seems odd that that would need replaced
again--which I'm assuming if the car needs 2 axles that would be part
of it.

Brian Nystrom

Skeet wrote:
> On Jan 7, 12:45�pm, Brian Nystrom <brian.nyst...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I did with my Excel. They actually covered a transmission rebuild
>> 75% when the car was 4000 miles past warranty (the problem had started
>> while still under warranty). The problem was a combination of synchro
>> wear and bearing wear. They let me have it rebuilt at a local AAMCO
>> dealer (with a good reputation). AAMCO billed them for the transmission
>> rebuild and and a clutch replacement (something you should do as well)
>> and they paid 75% of the entire bill - which they agreed to do in
>> advance, in writing. That pretty much covered the entire cost of the
>> transmission rebuild. I had no problem with paying for the clutch
>> replacement myself, as it's considered a maintenance item. Essentially,
>> I paid for the parts and got the labor for nothing.
>
> Did you have it first diagnosed at the dealer? Or did you take it to
> AAMCO and get their estimate and then go back to Hyundai with the data
> and ask them to cover it and have it repaired at AAMCO? My question
> is what was the sequence on how you got Hyundai to cover it--
> especially getting repaired at an outside shop?

AAMCO did the diagnosis and Hyundai accepted it. I never took it to the
dealer. It was not an uncommon problem on that car, which is probably
why they didn't require me to take it to the dealer. Considering that
dealers don't do a lot of tranny rebuilds, I suspect they also figured
I'd be more satisfied with the work done by a specialist. The original
problem started at under 60K miles, it was rebuilt at 64K and the repair
lasted for over 100K miles.

>> Overall, that was as good an outcome as I could have hoped for and I was
>> very impressed with Hyundai's service. That's one of the main reasons I
>> bought my Elantra when the Excel died at ~170k miles.
>>
>
> How much did you use a local Hyundai dealer, if at all?

In this case, not at all. I don't know if they'll deal with you the same
way or not.

>> In your case, if the rest of the car is in good shape, get the
>> transmission rebuilt and replace the clutch. Even if you end up spending
>> $600-$800 on it, that's a LOT cheaper than a new car. You should get at
>> least another 50K miles out of the car.
>
> The car also needs 2 axles according to the dealer. In May of 2007 I
> had one replaced, and I don't recall the specific reason other than
> there was a boot or something that is packed with grease around the
> axle and it was cracked. Seems odd that that would need replaced
> again--which I'm assuming if the car needs 2 axles that would be part
> of it.

You're correct that if an axle (a.k.a., "half-shaft") was replaced that
recently, there is no way it should need it again. My dealer warranties
their work for a year, but I'm not sure if that's Hyundai policy or not.
I would certainly ask Hyundai when you speak to them. If the car is
still under warranty, the axles should be covered.

BTW, what the dealer was referring to was the boot(s) on the CV
joint(s). They can crack and allow the grease to leak out and water/dirt
to get in. While it's possible to replace just the grease and the boot,
it's better to replace the joint, as you don't know if it's been damaged
by water or debris. Replacing the axle replaces both the inner and outer
joints and it takes less time than taking the old axle off, replacing a
joint, then reinstalling the axle. The parts cost more for an axle
replacement, but the labor is less and you end up with two new joints
that were assembled in a clean factory environment.

Brian Nystrom

Skeet wrote:
> On Jan 7, 1:26�pm, "hyundaitech" <notpub...@not.public.com> wrote:
>> The one thing I can tell you for sure is that the problem is not your
>> synchronizers (synchros). �Most likely, the 5th gear and the shift hub
>> sleeve are worn to where the teeth are no longer long enough to hold the
>> transmission in gear. �
>>
>
> Thanks that helps.
>
>> Also call Hyundai customer assistance. �See if you can get Hyundai to
>> commit to some sort of assistance based on a preliminary inspection at
>> the
>> dealer without finding the actual fault. �For example, you might pay
>> labor
>> and they might pay parts. �Or they might split the repair 50/50 with you.
>>
>> Or they could even cover the whole thing. �While the actual failure
>> cannot
>> be determined for certain without disassembling the transmission, a basic
>> inspection will allow the dealer to determine the car that has been
>> provided the transmission and its general condition. �This may be
>> important for Hyundai in making a determination as to whether they'll
>> assist you. �There is no committee. �The factory representative for that
>> dealer will make the determination.
>>
>
> Dealer repair manager called me back later and said he spoke to the
> factory rep and they will NOT be covering anything. What is your best
> advice for proceeding. MInd you that we still don't have the
> transmission taken apart yet to find out what all will be needed to
> repair. Also apparently from their initial look the car needs 2
> axles. I have the idea that if i were to get this repaired at the
> dealer I will pay way more than at a different shop--perhaps that is
> incorrect.
>
> Overall, what I am uncertain about is the best way to proceed in the
> hopes that something might be covered by their goodwill program.
> Hyundai Customer Service said that they need an actual diagnosis from
> the Hyundai dealer which will cost about $380. Now I'm not giving up
> on them covering something on it from the Goodwill program, but after
> they diagnose it do I then have to have them fix it? And if I then
> take it somewhere to get a cheaper rebuild, will I be paying all over
> again.
>
> Sorry, I'm just not in my element on transmissions and don't have a
> lot of money laying around to invest in this car--yet of course need
> the car.
>
>> --
>> Message posted usinghttp://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
>> More information athttp://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html

Whatever you do, DO NOT accept the dealer's word as final. For all you
know, they are lying to you about talking with Hyundai. For some
unfathomable reason, some dealers are "warranty work-phobic" and will
try to get out of it at any cost. Good dealers are more concerned about
keeping customers happy. From what I understand, Hyundai reimburses
dealers pretty well for warranty work, so there's no valid reason for
them to fight against it other than greed. Perhaps Hyundaitech can shed
some light on this.

From this point forward, deal with Hyundai directly if possible.
Explain to them that you don't feel that the dealer is treating you
honestly and you're not comfortable dealing with them. Ask them if they
will accept a diagnosis from a transmission specialist. An experienced
transmission professional will know the common problems with specific
transmissions and can diagnose them with a simple, FREE driving test.
Worn synchro's (hard shifting, grinding), worn bearings (noise and
roughness) and popping out of gear are obvious problems with well-known
causes. It doesn't require a tear-down to diagnose most transmission
problems, though it will be required to determine exactly what parts are
needed. They can still provide an estimate that will be accurate enough
that Hyundai should accept it. When I had my transmission issue, AAMCO
gave me an estimate, I negotiated with Hyundai on the coverage and AAMCO
fixed the transmission. I don't recall if I paid for it and sent the
bill to Hyundai or if Hyundai paid AAMCO and I just paid the balance.
Either way, I was happy with the outcome.

hyundaitech

The fact that the dealer says nothing will be covered-- after speaking to
the factory rep-- means nothing will be covered (warranty or goodwill) if
you take the car to that dealer. While we don't know whether they
actually talked to the factory rep, there's no way of finding out for
certain whether any such discussion took place. If they're dishonest
enough to give false information now-- I'm not charging that's the case--
they'll have no problem denying coverage and never speaking to the rep.
Best case scenario is that they didn't actually speak to the rep and
another dealer may help you. Since you've spoken to customer assistance
and received no commitment from them, it means they're leaving any
decision up to the rep.

There's little question you'll pay a premium at the dealer. Check a
couple transmission shops and present them the scenario I described in my
earlier post, and add about $300 for synchros and miscellaneous other
things that may come up. Also get a price for them replacing the axles
while they're doing the work. Add it up and see whether it's money you
can invest or are willing to invest in this vehicle. Worst case scenario,
you can not use fifth gear or physically hold the gearshift in fifth gear
until something else fails to operate properly. If the problem is what I
think it is (gear/shift hub wear or damage), continuing to drive it isn't
likely to damage to other areas of the transmission. But let the
potential expense be your guide as to whether you should repair this
vehicle or look for another.

Most dealers will be able to rebuild a manual transmission. I don't do as
many as I did ten years ago, and it wasn't a lot then. Every once in a
while, however, we'd get a string and I'd have two or three apart at one
time. I suspect the reason Hyundai allowed AAMCO to rebuild in Brian's
case is that the dealer didn't have qualified personnel to do that
repair.

If you do have the transmission repaired, you'll want to choose a facility
that has a good reputation for repairing manual transmissions. Check word
of mouth and any other review sources you can access. Be cautious
regarding internet review sites where people can simply post their
experience. There's little guarantee the good posts weren't posted by the
shop itself.

--
Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html