Rachel

My 2003 Elantra (12000 mi) is very hard to start after
sitting overnight, so I took it to the dealer and they said they
adjusted something in the programming and if that did not fix
it that I would need a 'top engine cleaning' which in not covered
under warranty. The programming adjustment did not fix it and
no one I know has ever heard of a 'top engine cleaning', are they
trying to get into my purse or what???

hyundaitech

1. When the engine doesn't start, what happens? Does the starter turn the
engine or does the starter not run at all?

2. I know of exactly two reprograms for the 2003 Elantra, and none of
them address an issue for the vehicle not starting.

3. A top engine cleaning helps remove carbon and varnish from the intake
manifold and valves and other parts of the combustion chamber. I've seen
it help free stuck piston rings on GM products.

4. I would be very surprised to find out that a top engine cleaning would
solve a no start issue. Why does the dealer say it needs a top engine
cleaning and what diagnostic process did they use to arrive at that
conclusion?

5. I doubt the dealer is grabbing at your money. I do, however, suspect
that they are guessing at the problem your vehicle has. This is a
suspicion only. I don't yet have enough information to reach any
reasonable conclusions.

Neil J. Hubbard

"hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e1e079ac5eac3ac19ab31a421f2d9d2a@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...

(snip)

> 2. I know of exactly two reprograms for the 2003 Elantra, and none of
> them address an issue for the vehicle not starting.


Was one of them related to a hesitation at 4000 rpm? Just asking because I
took my car to the dealer to have the ECM reprogrammed for this issue, and
no difference.

Regards,

Neil

Rachel

The car just cranks when you try to start it, like it's note getting
any gas and you can hear a little motor making noise in the back,
this said the noise was the fuel pump. Once the car starts it runs
great and it will start up immediately if you try to restart it with
3-4 hours of it being turned off. It's only the first time I start it
each morning or sometimes after sittnig around for 8 hrs while
I'm at work but then it only needs a couple of cranks to start,
not 8-10 like in the morning.

When they told me about the top engine cleaning, they said a lot
of city driving could cause this problem howver almost all my
driving is highway. I do 35 miles to/from work each day on the
highway at 60mph (maybe a little faster than 60 but since the
speed limit is 60 that's all I'll confess up to).

And thanks for helping.

ED

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:07:48 GMT, "Rachel" <r.mckeever@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>The car just cranks when you try to start it, like it's note getting
>any gas and you can hear a little motor making noise in the back,
>this said the noise was the fuel pump. Once the car starts it runs
>great and it will start up immediately if you try to restart it with
>3-4 hours of it being turned off. It's only the first time I start it
>each morning or sometimes after sittnig around for 8 hrs while
>I'm at work but then it only needs a couple of cranks to start,
>not 8-10 like in the morning.
>
>When they told me about the top engine cleaning, they said a lot
>of city driving could cause this problem howver almost all my
>driving is highway. I do 35 miles to/from work each day on the
>highway at 60mph (maybe a little faster than 60 but since the
>speed limit is 60 that's all I'll confess up to).
>
>And thanks for helping.
>
>

I wonder if the fuel system might be losing pressure overnight and it
takes the pump a little while to get the system pressurized and fuel
to the injectors.

Brian Nystrom

ED wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:07:48 GMT, "Rachel" <r.mckeever@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>The car just cranks when you try to start it, like it's note getting
>>any gas and you can hear a little motor making noise in the back,
>>this said the noise was the fuel pump. Once the car starts it runs
>>great and it will start up immediately if you try to restart it with
>>3-4 hours of it being turned off. It's only the first time I start it
>>each morning or sometimes after sittnig around for 8 hrs while
>>I'm at work but then it only needs a couple of cranks to start,
>>not 8-10 like in the morning.
>>
>>When they told me about the top engine cleaning, they said a lot
>>of city driving could cause this problem howver almost all my
>>driving is highway. I do 35 miles to/from work each day on the
>>highway at 60mph (maybe a little faster than 60 but since the
>>speed limit is 60 that's all I'll confess up to).
>>
>>And thanks for helping.
>
> I wonder if the fuel system might be losing pressure overnight and it
> takes the pump a little while to get the system pressurized and fuel
> to the injectors.

It's normal for the fuel system to depressurize when it's shut off, but
is shouldn't drain out. It should re-pressurize immediately when the
pump starts.

It could still be a pump or fuel system problem. Here's a test that
might help diagnose it:

After the car has sat overnight, turn the key to the ON position so that
the fuel pump runs, but don't try to start the car. Let it run for few
seconds, they try to start it. If it fires right up, it means that
either the pump is weak or the check valve in the fuel system in
malfuntioning and allowing the fuel to drain back out of the lines.

If it still doesn't start, I have no idea what it could be.

BTW, did the dealer check the fuel pressure? Does the car stumble if you
accellerate hard?

hyundaitech

Yes. One of them was for a cold start hesitation and a hesitation around
3800 rpm.

hyundaitech

I think ED's on the right track here. The fuel system doesn't depressurize
like the other poster says, it's intended to hold about 20psi or so even
long after the car is off. I believe this is a "returnless" system (I'll
have to check to be sure, I can't remember for certain), meaning the fuel
pump and regulator are in the same unit in the tank. I'd be making a good
inspection of what happens to the fuel pressure after turned off. If they
haven't checked the fuel pressure when the condition occurs, why did they
deem this unnecessary?

Not your business

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:11:39 -0400, "hyundaitech"
<howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:

>Yes. One of them was for a cold start hesitation and a hesitation around
>3800 rpm.

My mechanic just told me about that today. It effects 2001-2003
Elantras, I will get it fixed at the dealer. The ECM id number
depends on the year and model of your car, but the reflash part number
is 39109-2320

Brian Nystrom

hyundaitech wrote:

> I think ED's on the right track here. The fuel system doesn't depressurize
> like the other poster says, it's intended to hold about 20psi or so even
> long after the car is off. I believe this is a "returnless" system (I'll
> have to check to be sure, I can't remember for certain), meaning the fuel
> pump and regulator are in the same unit in the tank. I'd be making a good
> inspection of what happens to the fuel pressure after turned off. If they
> haven't checked the fuel pressure when the condition occurs, why did they
> deem this unnecessary?

What is the normal working pressure? I assume that it's quite a bit
higher than 20 psi.

hyundaitech

Oh, yes. The normal pressure is 35-40 psi. You lose about 5-

hyundaitech

Sorry. I'll try again.

The normal pressure is 35-40 psi. It'll lose about 5-10 psi just by
turning off the key.

Rachel

I left the car at the dealers on a Saturday afternoon so it wouldn't be
started until Monday morning, at which time it would be very hard to
start. They did not try to start it, they said they did the programming
fix before trying to start it and then it started right up.
They said if the problem presists that it probably needed a top engine
cleaning.
Once started it's runs great, no problems what-so-ever until the following
morning when I try to start it again.


"hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:35e35d5fd8f448baf573de597685663a@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
>I think ED's on the right track here. The fuel system doesn't depressurize
> like the other poster says, it's intended to hold about 20psi or so even
> long after the car is off. I believe this is a "returnless" system (I'll
> have to check to be sure, I can't remember for certain), meaning the fuel
> pump and regulator are in the same unit in the tank. I'd be making a good
> inspection of what happens to the fuel pressure after turned off. If they
> haven't checked the fuel pressure when the condition occurs, why did they
> deem this unnecessary?
>