Hyndai transmission fluid
 

I took my Hyundai Accent GL 2001 to Oil Doctor for oil change. They said I
need a service because I was having a transmission problem as I stated in my
earlier mail. I have 38,000 miles and I bought in Dec, 03. So I stil have
60,000 miles warranty. What happened was, I gave permission to do service
and they put following transmission fluid:

Dextron Markon 3 compatile with lopa, they used three ounce of additive T3
to one quart of dextron markon 3. They said this is specified by the
manufacturer.

I still had problem with transmission and then I took the car to the
dealer and they said Oil Doctor has put wrong fluid and they charged me
aorund 400 for various reasons to clean and refill and so on.

Now Oil Doctor is saying they used Hyndai specified fluid. My question
is: is the above mentioned fluid Hyundai specified fluid? Or is it
something else? Both Oil Doctor and the dealer are standing firmly on
their own and they are saying they are right. So, I am totlly confused.

Sudip

Re: Hyndai transmission fluid
 

Dextron III is NOT Hyundai SP3 fluid. For best results (for ANY car)
Never use anythingthing but what is listed in your owners manual. That
WILL avoid all these pointing fingers. I suggest you find another
dealer that does not know the "truth" (even though you most likely
have done no damage to the transmission).


On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:05:26 -0400, Sudip Bhattacharjee
<ciesudip@WPI.EDU> wrote:

>I took my Hyundai Accent GL 2001 to Oil Doctor for oil change. They said I
>need a service because I was having a transmission problem as I stated in my
>earlier mail. I have 38,000 miles and I bought in Dec, 03. So I stil have
>60,000 miles warranty. What happened was, I gave permission to do service
>and they put following transmission fluid:
>
>Dextron Markon 3 compatile with lopa, they used three ounce of additive T3
>to one quart of dextron markon 3. They said this is specified by the
>manufacturer.
>
>I still had problem with transmission and then I took the car to the
>dealer and they said Oil Doctor has put wrong fluid and they charged me
>aorund 400 for various reasons to clean and refill and so on.
>
>Now Oil Doctor is saying they used Hyndai specified fluid. My question
>is: is the above mentioned fluid Hyundai specified fluid? Or is it
>something else? Both Oil Doctor and the dealer are standing firmly on
>their own and they are saying they are right. So, I am totlly confused.
>
>Sudip

Re: 2003 Sonata 2-3 up shift problem
 

My 2002 Elantra also. From new. They have accepted this as normal operation.
Come on. Everyone knows a car shouldn't shift like that. Its Hyundai up to
their tricks again. These problems will haunt them in the future. I don't
know why they don't just fix it. There must be an engineer out there capable
of making a decent transmission for them. Excuses and accepting it are gone
by, its just another crappy working Hyundai. Time will reveal this.
"FerdyPooh" <fredjr1@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:o2yjc.23390$oN1.20525@bignews5.bellsouth.net. ..
> Thought I'd throw in a comment here also---
>
> I have a 2004 Sonata GLS which has performed flawlessly since
> delivery---except for the "peculiarity" that you have experienced.
>
> My Sonata has the delayed 2-3 upshift occurrence also; it's only from
cold
> starts and disappears after the first 1/2 to 1 mile of driving, or at the
> point of the first 2-3 upshift, whichever comes first. It then behaves
> normally. As a side note, my car was delivered to me from the dealer 1/2
to
> 3/4 of a quart low on transmission fluid----after adding the proper
Hyundai
> SP-III fluid to the tranny, the occurrence seemed to become better (by
that,
> I mean that RPM's did not get as high and the "flare" not as severe before
> the upshift occurred).
>
> My personal feelings are that this is normal for Hyundai automatics, as I
> traded a 2002 Elantra GLS for this car, and the Elantra had the same
> anomaly. However, the referenced TSB's in this thread do not seem to
apply
> to '04 models (correct me if wrong).
>
>
>
>
> "hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:441ef3f631de7dfca7c9ff59c169913a@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> > Once upon a time, Hyundai had numerous transmission problems and
failures.
> > This is not so anymore. I've gone from replacing about one transmission
> > every couple weeks in the nineties to one every month or two.
> >
> > At issue here is whether there is an actual transmission problem or
> > whether the transmission is doing something as designed that the driver
> > dislikes. Being short on details as to the exact specifics to the later
> > cases presented here, I'm left unable to provide any opinion on whether
> > the vehicle is or is not behaving normally. If you've had the vehicle
to
> > the dealer and they've been able to duplicate the condition and still
> > think it's normal, it probably is (short of new reprograms such as the
one
> > referenced above to address the issue). If you've received the "normal"
> > response and are not satisfied, take your car to another dealer for a
> > second opinion. Do not tell them about your visits elsewhere; let them
> > reach their own conclusion. Also, do not confuse "unable to duplicate"
> > with "normal." "Unable to duplicate" simply means that the repair
> > facility was unable to make the condition happen and was unable to find
> > any problem which might cause it to happen. It does not indicate that
> > there is no problem, just that it wasn't present when they inspected the
> > vehicle, and that they cannot recommend any repair for this reason.
> >
>
>

Re: 2003 Sonata 2-3 up shift problem
 

My '04 Sonata GLS has shifted like this from day 1, but my local
dealer(Wright Hyundai) says there is nothing wrong. I will be VERY
surprised if my engine makes it past 40,000 miles or so (currently
about 8,000) because of the high rpms it produces in 2nd gear


On level ground, it's not to bad, but if I start up a hill and I'm in
1st or 2nd, I can reach speeds of 60mph with the tach over 5 and it
won't shift out of 2nd. 99% of the time I will have to manually shift
into 3rd

This is not normal operation, I don't care what some 'tech' from
Hyundai says. I've been driving for well over 30 years, and never had
tranny problems like this.

I'll just keep complaining, keep good records and get a new engine and
tranny in a year or so when these go. Bad thing is, I'm stuck with
this lemon till I pay it off in another 5 years. Live and learn I
guess

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:02:52 -0500, "FerdyPooh"
<fredjr1@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Thought I'd throw in a comment here also---
>
>I have a 2004 Sonata GLS which has performed flawlessly since
>delivery---except for the "peculiarity" that you have experienced.
>
>My Sonata has the delayed 2-3 upshift occurrence also; it's only from cold
>starts and disappears after the first 1/2 to 1 mile of driving, or at the
>point of the first 2-3 upshift, whichever comes first. It then behaves
>normally. As a side note, my car was delivered to me from the dealer 1/2 to
>3/4 of a quart low on transmission fluid----after adding the proper Hyundai
>SP-III fluid to the tranny, the occurrence seemed to become better (by that,
>I mean that RPM's did not get as high and the "flare" not as severe before
>the upshift occurred).
>
>My personal feelings are that this is normal for Hyundai automatics, as I
>traded a 2002 Elantra GLS for this car, and the Elantra had the same
>anomaly. However, the referenced TSB's in this thread do not seem to apply
>to '04 models (correct me if wrong).
>
>
>
>
>"hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:441ef3f631de7dfca7c9ff59c169913a@localhost.t alkaboutautos.com...
>> Once upon a time, Hyundai had numerous transmission problems and failures.
>> This is not so anymore. I've gone from replacing about one transmission
>> every couple weeks in the nineties to one every month or two.
>>
>> At issue here is whether there is an actual transmission problem or
>> whether the transmission is doing something as designed that the driver
>> dislikes. Being short on details as to the exact specifics to the later
>> cases presented here, I'm left unable to provide any opinion on whether
>> the vehicle is or is not behaving normally. If you've had the vehicle to
>> the dealer and they've been able to duplicate the condition and still
>> think it's normal, it probably is (short of new reprograms such as the one
>> referenced above to address the issue). If you've received the "normal"
>> response and are not satisfied, take your car to another dealer for a
>> second opinion. Do not tell them about your visits elsewhere; let them
>> reach their own conclusion. Also, do not confuse "unable to duplicate"
>> with "normal." "Unable to duplicate" simply means that the repair
>> facility was unable to make the condition happen and was unable to find
>> any problem which might cause it to happen. It does not indicate that
>> there is no problem, just that it wasn't present when they inspected the
>> vehicle, and that they cannot recommend any repair for this reason.
>>
>
>

Re: 2003 Sonata 2-3 up shift problem
 

Last Thursday I was able to get my car in to have the transaxle software
update as suggested by the online hyundaitech. It appears this reprogramming
has fixed the delayed 2-3 up shift problem. Call your dealer and have it
done.
Bob

"wm" <flameout00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:409eb26a.80215031@news.comcast.giganews.com.. .
> My '04 Sonata GLS has shifted like this from day 1, but my local
> dealer(Wright Hyundai) says there is nothing wrong. I will be VERY
> surprised if my engine makes it past 40,000 miles or so (currently
> about 8,000) because of the high rpms it produces in 2nd gear
>
>
> On level ground, it's not to bad, but if I start up a hill and I'm in
> 1st or 2nd, I can reach speeds of 60mph with the tach over 5 and it
> won't shift out of 2nd. 99% of the time I will have to manually shift
> into 3rd
>
> This is not normal operation, I don't care what some 'tech' from
> Hyundai says. I've been driving for well over 30 years, and never had
> tranny problems like this.
>
> I'll just keep complaining, keep good records and get a new engine and
> tranny in a year or so when these go. Bad thing is, I'm stuck with
> this lemon till I pay it off in another 5 years. Live and learn I
> guess
>
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:02:52 -0500, "FerdyPooh"
> <fredjr1@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >Thought I'd throw in a comment here also---
> >
> >I have a 2004 Sonata GLS which has performed flawlessly since
> >delivery---except for the "peculiarity" that you have experienced.
> >
> >My Sonata has the delayed 2-3 upshift occurrence also; it's only from
cold
> >starts and disappears after the first 1/2 to 1 mile of driving, or at the
> >point of the first 2-3 upshift, whichever comes first. It then behaves
> >normally. As a side note, my car was delivered to me from the dealer 1/2
to
> >3/4 of a quart low on transmission fluid----after adding the proper
Hyundai
> >SP-III fluid to the tranny, the occurrence seemed to become better (by
that,
> >I mean that RPM's did not get as high and the "flare" not as severe
before
> >the upshift occurred).
> >
> >My personal feelings are that this is normal for Hyundai automatics, as I
> >traded a 2002 Elantra GLS for this car, and the Elantra had the same
> >anomaly. However, the referenced TSB's in this thread do not seem to
apply
> >to '04 models (correct me if wrong).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >"hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:441ef3f631de7dfca7c9ff59c169913a@localhost.t alkaboutautos.com...
> >> Once upon a time, Hyundai had numerous transmission problems and
failures.
> >> This is not so anymore. I've gone from replacing about one
transmission
> >> every couple weeks in the nineties to one every month or two.
> >>
> >> At issue here is whether there is an actual transmission problem or
> >> whether the transmission is doing something as designed that the driver
> >> dislikes. Being short on details as to the exact specifics to the
later
> >> cases presented here, I'm left unable to provide any opinion on whether
> >> the vehicle is or is not behaving normally. If you've had the vehicle
to
> >> the dealer and they've been able to duplicate the condition and still
> >> think it's normal, it probably is (short of new reprograms such as the
one
> >> referenced above to address the issue). If you've received the
"normal"
> >> response and are not satisfied, take your car to another dealer for a
> >> second opinion. Do not tell them about your visits elsewhere; let them
> >> reach their own conclusion. Also, do not confuse "unable to duplicate"
> >> with "normal." "Unable to duplicate" simply means that the repair
> >> facility was unable to make the condition happen and was unable to find
> >> any problem which might cause it to happen. It does not indicate that
> >> there is no problem, just that it wasn't present when they inspected
the
> >> vehicle, and that they cannot recommend any repair for this reason.
> >>
> >
> >
>

Re: 2003 Sonata 2-3 up shift problem
 

On Mon, 17 May 2004 13:55:13 GMT, "BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:

>Last Thursday I was able to get my car in to have the transaxle software
>update as suggested by the online hyundaitech. It appears this reprogramming
>has fixed the delayed 2-3 up shift problem. Call your dealer and have it
>done.
>Bob
>
>"wm" <flameout00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:409eb26a.80215031@news.comcast.giganews.com. ..
>> My '04 Sonata GLS has shifted like this from day 1, but my local
>> dealer(Wright Hyundai) says there is nothing wrong. I will be VERY
>> surprised if my engine makes it past 40,000 miles or so (currently
>> about 8,000) because of the high rpms it produces in 2nd gear
>>
>>
>> On level ground, it's not to bad, but if I start up a hill and I'm in
>> 1st or 2nd, I can reach speeds of 60mph with the tach over 5 and it
>> won't shift out of 2nd. 99% of the time I will have to manually shift
>> into 3rd
>>
>> This is not normal operation, I don't care what some 'tech' from
>> Hyundai says. I've been driving for well over 30 years, and never had
>> tranny problems like this.
>>
>> I'll just keep complaining, keep good records and get a new engine and
>> tranny in a year or so when these go. Bad thing is, I'm stuck with
>> this lemon till I pay it off in another 5 years. Live and learn I
>> guess
>>
>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:02:52 -0500, "FerdyPooh"
>> <fredjr1@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Thought I'd throw in a comment here also---
>> >
>> >I have a 2004 Sonata GLS which has performed flawlessly since
>> >delivery---except for the "peculiarity" that you have experienced.
>> >
>> >My Sonata has the delayed 2-3 upshift occurrence also; it's only from
>cold
>> >starts and disappears after the first 1/2 to 1 mile of driving, or at the
>> >point of the first 2-3 upshift, whichever comes first. It then behaves
>> >normally. As a side note, my car was delivered to me from the dealer 1/2
>to
>> >3/4 of a quart low on transmission fluid----after adding the proper
>Hyundai
>> >SP-III fluid to the tranny, the occurrence seemed to become better (by
>that,
>> >I mean that RPM's did not get as high and the "flare" not as severe
>before
>> >the upshift occurred).
>> >
>> >My personal feelings are that this is normal for Hyundai automatics, as I
>> >traded a 2002 Elantra GLS for this car, and the Elantra had the same
>> >anomaly. However, the referenced TSB's in this thread do not seem to
>apply
>> >to '04 models (correct me if wrong).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >"hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:441ef3f631de7dfca7c9ff59c169913a@localhost.t alkaboutautos.com...
>> >> Once upon a time, Hyundai had numerous transmission problems and
>failures.
>> >> This is not so anymore. I've gone from replacing about one
>transmission
>> >> every couple weeks in the nineties to one every month or two.
>> >>
>> >> At issue here is whether there is an actual transmission problem or
>> >> whether the transmission is doing something as designed that the driver
>> >> dislikes. Being short on details as to the exact specifics to the
>later
>> >> cases presented here, I'm left unable to provide any opinion on whether
>> >> the vehicle is or is not behaving normally. If you've had the vehicle
>to
>> >> the dealer and they've been able to duplicate the condition and still
>> >> think it's normal, it probably is (short of new reprograms such as the
>one
>> >> referenced above to address the issue). If you've received the
>"normal"
>> >> response and are not satisfied, take your car to another dealer for a
>> >> second opinion. Do not tell them about your visits elsewhere; let them
>> >> reach their own conclusion. Also, do not confuse "unable to duplicate"
>> >> with "normal." "Unable to duplicate" simply means that the repair
>> >> facility was unable to make the condition happen and was unable to find
>> >> any problem which might cause it to happen. It does not indicate that
>> >> there is no problem, just that it wasn't present when they inspected
>the
>> >> vehicle, and that they cannot recommend any repair for this reason.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>

I had the TSB applied to my Sonata last week. I'm not sure I like the
results. The shift time has decreased dramatically. That is great.
The tranny used to take around a second to shift when above 3500 RPM.
The lagging 2-3 upshift problem has gotten worse. I also seem to have
developed a 3-4 upshift lag. This might be the transmission
relearning but it has been almost 600 miles since the TSB was applied.
My car learned a lot faster after I bought it (and reset the ECM). In
addition, when in Shiftronic mode my car no longer automatically
downshifts at 1000 RPM, it now waits until 700 RPM. It doesn't
downshift from 3rd to 2nd either, it jumps straight down to 1st. This
is a little annoying because there is no power in 3rd gear at 15 mph.

Re: 2003 Sonata 2-3 up shift problem
 

I called my dealer and made an appointment. He said he never heard anything
about it. But however he did tell me it's going to cost me 300.00 to correct
the problem. How much did you guys get charged?
"Jason" <none.of.your.business@see.left.of.at.com> wrote in message
news:masia01ouk11qeq8utvcv02jv8s7hfi9ja@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 17 May 2004 13:55:13 GMT, "BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Last Thursday I was able to get my car in to have the transaxle software
> >update as suggested by the online hyundaitech. It appears this
reprogramming
> >has fixed the delayed 2-3 up shift problem. Call your dealer and have it
> >done.
> >Bob
> >
> >"wm" <flameout00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:409eb26a.80215031@news.comcast.giganews.com. ..
> >> My '04 Sonata GLS has shifted like this from day 1, but my local
> >> dealer(Wright Hyundai) says there is nothing wrong. I will be VERY
> >> surprised if my engine makes it past 40,000 miles or so (currently
> >> about 8,000) because of the high rpms it produces in 2nd gear
> >>
> >>
> >> On level ground, it's not to bad, but if I start up a hill and I'm in
> >> 1st or 2nd, I can reach speeds of 60mph with the tach over 5 and it
> >> won't shift out of 2nd. 99% of the time I will have to manually shift
> >> into 3rd
> >>
> >> This is not normal operation, I don't care what some 'tech' from
> >> Hyundai says. I've been driving for well over 30 years, and never had
> >> tranny problems like this.
> >>
> >> I'll just keep complaining, keep good records and get a new engine and
> >> tranny in a year or so when these go. Bad thing is, I'm stuck with
> >> this lemon till I pay it off in another 5 years. Live and learn I
> >> guess
> >>
> >> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:02:52 -0500, "FerdyPooh"
> >> <fredjr1@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Thought I'd throw in a comment here also---
> >> >
> >> >I have a 2004 Sonata GLS which has performed flawlessly since
> >> >delivery---except for the "peculiarity" that you have experienced.
> >> >
> >> >My Sonata has the delayed 2-3 upshift occurrence also; it's only from
> >cold
> >> >starts and disappears after the first 1/2 to 1 mile of driving, or at
the
> >> >point of the first 2-3 upshift, whichever comes first. It then
behaves
> >> >normally. As a side note, my car was delivered to me from the dealer
1/2
> >to
> >> >3/4 of a quart low on transmission fluid----after adding the proper
> >Hyundai
> >> >SP-III fluid to the tranny, the occurrence seemed to become better (by
> >that,
> >> >I mean that RPM's did not get as high and the "flare" not as severe
> >before
> >> >the upshift occurred).
> >> >
> >> >My personal feelings are that this is normal for Hyundai automatics,
as I
> >> >traded a 2002 Elantra GLS for this car, and the Elantra had the same
> >> >anomaly. However, the referenced TSB's in this thread do not seem to
> >apply
> >> >to '04 models (correct me if wrong).
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:441ef3f631de7dfca7c9ff59c169913a@localhost.t alkaboutautos.com...
> >> >> Once upon a time, Hyundai had numerous transmission problems and
> >failures.
> >> >> This is not so anymore. I've gone from replacing about one
> >transmission
> >> >> every couple weeks in the nineties to one every month or two.
> >> >>
> >> >> At issue here is whether there is an actual transmission problem or
> >> >> whether the transmission is doing something as designed that the
driver
> >> >> dislikes. Being short on details as to the exact specifics to the
> >later
> >> >> cases presented here, I'm left unable to provide any opinion on
whether
> >> >> the vehicle is or is not behaving normally. If you've had the
vehicle
> >to
> >> >> the dealer and they've been able to duplicate the condition and
still
> >> >> think it's normal, it probably is (short of new reprograms such as
the
> >one
> >> >> referenced above to address the issue). If you've received the
> >"normal"
> >> >> response and are not satisfied, take your car to another dealer for
a
> >> >> second opinion. Do not tell them about your visits elsewhere; let
them
> >> >> reach their own conclusion. Also, do not confuse "unable to
duplicate"
> >> >> with "normal." "Unable to duplicate" simply means that the repair
> >> >> facility was unable to make the condition happen and was unable to
find
> >> >> any problem which might cause it to happen. It does not indicate
that
> >> >> there is no problem, just that it wasn't present when they inspected
> >the
> >> >> vehicle, and that they cannot recommend any repair for this reason.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
> I had the TSB applied to my Sonata last week. I'm not sure I like the
> results. The shift time has decreased dramatically. That is great.
> The tranny used to take around a second to shift when above 3500 RPM.
> The lagging 2-3 upshift problem has gotten worse. I also seem to have
> developed a 3-4 upshift lag. This might be the transmission
> relearning but it has been almost 600 miles since the TSB was applied.
> My car learned a lot faster after I bought it (and reset the ECM). In
> addition, when in Shiftronic mode my car no longer automatically
> downshifts at 1000 RPM, it now waits until 700 RPM. It doesn't
> downshift from 3rd to 2nd either, it jumps straight down to 1st. This
> is a little annoying because there is no power in 3rd gear at 15 mph.

Re: 2003 Sonata 2-3 up shift problem
 

No charge. I had been complaining of this shift problem since the vehicle
was new and recently informed the dealer I was ready to seek arbitration. I
feel Hyundai should have an automatic recall for all 2002-2003 Sonata to
upgrade transaxle software. I'm sure they will reprogram to keep a happy
customer.
Bob

"sonata32" <sonata32@nospam.cm> wrote in message
news:LCpqc.168471$f_5.77675@lakeread01...
> I called my dealer and made an appointment. He said he never heard
anything
> about it. But however he did tell me it's going to cost me 300.00 to
correct
> the problem. How much did you guys get charged?
> "Jason" <none.of.your.business@see.left.of.at.com> wrote in message
> news:masia01ouk11qeq8utvcv02jv8s7hfi9ja@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 17 May 2004 13:55:13 GMT, "BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Last Thursday I was able to get my car in to have the transaxle
software
> > >update as suggested by the online hyundaitech. It appears this
> reprogramming
> > >has fixed the delayed 2-3 up shift problem. Call your dealer and have
it
> > >done.
> > >Bob
> > >
> > >"wm" <flameout00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >news:409eb26a.80215031@news.comcast.giganews.com. ..
> > >> My '04 Sonata GLS has shifted like this from day 1, but my local
> > >> dealer(Wright Hyundai) says there is nothing wrong. I will be VERY
> > >> surprised if my engine makes it past 40,000 miles or so (currently
> > >> about 8,000) because of the high rpms it produces in 2nd gear
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On level ground, it's not to bad, but if I start up a hill and I'm in
> > >> 1st or 2nd, I can reach speeds of 60mph with the tach over 5 and it
> > >> won't shift out of 2nd. 99% of the time I will have to manually shift
> > >> into 3rd
> > >>
> > >> This is not normal operation, I don't care what some 'tech' from
> > >> Hyundai says. I've been driving for well over 30 years, and never had
> > >> tranny problems like this.
> > >>
> > >> I'll just keep complaining, keep good records and get a new engine
and
> > >> tranny in a year or so when these go. Bad thing is, I'm stuck with
> > >> this lemon till I pay it off in another 5 years. Live and learn I
> > >> guess
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:02:52 -0500, "FerdyPooh"
> > >> <fredjr1@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >Thought I'd throw in a comment here also---
> > >> >
> > >> >I have a 2004 Sonata GLS which has performed flawlessly since
> > >> >delivery---except for the "peculiarity" that you have experienced.
> > >> >
> > >> >My Sonata has the delayed 2-3 upshift occurrence also; it's only
from
> > >cold
> > >> >starts and disappears after the first 1/2 to 1 mile of driving, or
at
> the
> > >> >point of the first 2-3 upshift, whichever comes first. It then
> behaves
> > >> >normally. As a side note, my car was delivered to me from the
dealer
> 1/2
> > >to
> > >> >3/4 of a quart low on transmission fluid----after adding the proper
> > >Hyundai
> > >> >SP-III fluid to the tranny, the occurrence seemed to become better
(by
> > >that,
> > >> >I mean that RPM's did not get as high and the "flare" not as severe
> > >before
> > >> >the upshift occurred).
> > >> >
> > >> >My personal feelings are that this is normal for Hyundai automatics,
> as I
> > >> >traded a 2002 Elantra GLS for this car, and the Elantra had the same
> > >> >anomaly. However, the referenced TSB's in this thread do not seem
to
> > >apply
> > >> >to '04 models (correct me if wrong).
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >"hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >>
>news:441ef3f631de7dfca7c9ff59c169913a@localhost.t alkaboutautos.com...
> > >> >> Once upon a time, Hyundai had numerous transmission problems and
> > >failures.
> > >> >> This is not so anymore. I've gone from replacing about one
> > >transmission
> > >> >> every couple weeks in the nineties to one every month or two.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> At issue here is whether there is an actual transmission problem
or
> > >> >> whether the transmission is doing something as designed that the
> driver
> > >> >> dislikes. Being short on details as to the exact specifics to the
> > >later
> > >> >> cases presented here, I'm left unable to provide any opinion on
> whether
> > >> >> the vehicle is or is not behaving normally. If you've had the
> vehicle
> > >to
> > >> >> the dealer and they've been able to duplicate the condition and
> still
> > >> >> think it's normal, it probably is (short of new reprograms such as
> the
> > >one
> > >> >> referenced above to address the issue). If you've received the
> > >"normal"
> > >> >> response and are not satisfied, take your car to another dealer
for
> a
> > >> >> second opinion. Do not tell them about your visits elsewhere; let
> them
> > >> >> reach their own conclusion. Also, do not confuse "unable to
> duplicate"
> > >> >> with "normal." "Unable to duplicate" simply means that the repair
> > >> >> facility was unable to make the condition happen and was unable to
> find
> > >> >> any problem which might cause it to happen. It does not indicate
> that
> > >> >> there is no problem, just that it wasn't present when they
inspected
> > >the
> > >> >> vehicle, and that they cannot recommend any repair for this
reason.
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > I had the TSB applied to my Sonata last week. I'm not sure I like the
> > results. The shift time has decreased dramatically. That is great.
> > The tranny used to take around a second to shift when above 3500 RPM.
> > The lagging 2-3 upshift problem has gotten worse. I also seem to have
> > developed a 3-4 upshift lag. This might be the transmission
> > relearning but it has been almost 600 miles since the TSB was applied.
> > My car learned a lot faster after I bought it (and reset the ECM). In
> > addition, when in Shiftronic mode my car no longer automatically
> > downshifts at 1000 RPM, it now waits until 700 RPM. It doesn't
> > downshift from 3rd to 2nd either, it jumps straight down to 1st. This
> > is a little annoying because there is no power in 3rd gear at 15 mph.
>
>

Re: 2003 Sonata 2-3 up shift problem
 

On Tue, 18 May 2004 11:05:10 -0400, "sonata32" <sonata32@nospam.cm>
wrote:

>I called my dealer and made an appointment. He said he never heard anything
>about it. But however he did tell me it's going to cost me 300.00 to correct
>the problem. How much did you guys get charged?
>"Jason" <none.of.your.business@see.left.of.at.com> wrote in message
>news:masia01ouk11qeq8utvcv02jv8s7hfi9ja@4ax.com.. .
>> On Mon, 17 May 2004 13:55:13 GMT, "BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Last Thursday I was able to get my car in to have the transaxle software
>> >update as suggested by the online hyundaitech. It appears this
>reprogramming
>> >has fixed the delayed 2-3 up shift problem. Call your dealer and have it
>> >done.
>> >Bob
>> >
>> >"wm" <flameout00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:409eb26a.80215031@news.comcast.giganews.com. ..
>> >> My '04 Sonata GLS has shifted like this from day 1, but my local
>> >> dealer(Wright Hyundai) says there is nothing wrong. I will be VERY
>> >> surprised if my engine makes it past 40,000 miles or so (currently
>> >> about 8,000) because of the high rpms it produces in 2nd gear
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On level ground, it's not to bad, but if I start up a hill and I'm in
>> >> 1st or 2nd, I can reach speeds of 60mph with the tach over 5 and it
>> >> won't shift out of 2nd. 99% of the time I will have to manually shift
>> >> into 3rd
>> >>
>> >> This is not normal operation, I don't care what some 'tech' from
>> >> Hyundai says. I've been driving for well over 30 years, and never had
>> >> tranny problems like this.
>> >>
>> >> I'll just keep complaining, keep good records and get a new engine and
>> >> tranny in a year or so when these go. Bad thing is, I'm stuck with
>> >> this lemon till I pay it off in another 5 years. Live and learn I
>> >> guess
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:02:52 -0500, "FerdyPooh"
>> >> <fredjr1@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Thought I'd throw in a comment here also---
>> >> >
>> >> >I have a 2004 Sonata GLS which has performed flawlessly since
>> >> >delivery---except for the "peculiarity" that you have experienced.
>> >> >
>> >> >My Sonata has the delayed 2-3 upshift occurrence also; it's only from
>> >cold
>> >> >starts and disappears after the first 1/2 to 1 mile of driving, or at
>the
>> >> >point of the first 2-3 upshift, whichever comes first. It then
>behaves
>> >> >normally. As a side note, my car was delivered to me from the dealer
>1/2
>> >to
>> >> >3/4 of a quart low on transmission fluid----after adding the proper
>> >Hyundai
>> >> >SP-III fluid to the tranny, the occurrence seemed to become better (by
>> >that,
>> >> >I mean that RPM's did not get as high and the "flare" not as severe
>> >before
>> >> >the upshift occurred).
>> >> >
>> >> >My personal feelings are that this is normal for Hyundai automatics,
>as I
>> >> >traded a 2002 Elantra GLS for this car, and the Elantra had the same
>> >> >anomaly. However, the referenced TSB's in this thread do not seem to
>> >apply
>> >> >to '04 models (correct me if wrong).
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >"hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> >news:441ef3f631de7dfca7c9ff59c169913a@localhost.t alkaboutautos.com...
>> >> >> Once upon a time, Hyundai had numerous transmission problems and
>> >failures.
>> >> >> This is not so anymore. I've gone from replacing about one
>> >transmission
>> >> >> every couple weeks in the nineties to one every month or two.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> At issue here is whether there is an actual transmission problem or
>> >> >> whether the transmission is doing something as designed that the
>driver
>> >> >> dislikes. Being short on details as to the exact specifics to the
>> >later
>> >> >> cases presented here, I'm left unable to provide any opinion on
>whether
>> >> >> the vehicle is or is not behaving normally. If you've had the
>vehicle
>> >to
>> >> >> the dealer and they've been able to duplicate the condition and
>still
>> >> >> think it's normal, it probably is (short of new reprograms such as
>the
>> >one
>> >> >> referenced above to address the issue). If you've received the
>> >"normal"
>> >> >> response and are not satisfied, take your car to another dealer for
>a
>> >> >> second opinion. Do not tell them about your visits elsewhere; let
>them
>> >> >> reach their own conclusion. Also, do not confuse "unable to
>duplicate"
>> >> >> with "normal." "Unable to duplicate" simply means that the repair
>> >> >> facility was unable to make the condition happen and was unable to
>find
>> >> >> any problem which might cause it to happen. It does not indicate
>that
>> >> >> there is no problem, just that it wasn't present when they inspected
>> >the
>> >> >> vehicle, and that they cannot recommend any repair for this reason.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> I had the TSB applied to my Sonata last week. I'm not sure I like the
>> results. The shift time has decreased dramatically. That is great.
>> The tranny used to take around a second to shift when above 3500 RPM.
>> The lagging 2-3 upshift problem has gotten worse. I also seem to have
>> developed a 3-4 upshift lag. This might be the transmission
>> relearning but it has been almost 600 miles since the TSB was applied.
>> My car learned a lot faster after I bought it (and reset the ECM). In
>> addition, when in Shiftronic mode my car no longer automatically
>> downshifts at 1000 RPM, it now waits until 700 RPM. It doesn't
>> downshift from 3rd to 2nd either, it jumps straight down to 1st. This
>> is a little annoying because there is no power in 3rd gear at 15 mph.
>

Nothing, they did it under warranty.

Re: 2003 Sonata 2-3 up shift problem
 

On Wed, 19 May 2004 22:32:16 GMT, "BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:

>No charge. I had been complaining of this shift problem since the vehicle
>was new and recently informed the dealer I was ready to seek arbitration. I
>feel Hyundai should have an automatic recall for all 2002-2003 Sonata to
>upgrade transaxle software. I'm sure they will reprogram to keep a happy
>customer.
>Bob
>

Don't forget to add the '04 model Sonata's to the list. Bought my '04
in Nov '03. It better be an '04!

Re: 2003 Sonata 2-3 up shift problem
 

On Mon, 17 May 2004 22:19:49 -0400, Jason
<none.of.your.business@see.left.of.at.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 17 May 2004 13:55:13 GMT, "BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Last Thursday I was able to get my car in to have the transaxle software
>>update as suggested by the online hyundaitech. It appears this reprogramming
>>has fixed the delayed 2-3 up shift problem. Call your dealer and have it
>>done.
>>Bob
>>
>>"wm" <flameout00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:409eb26a.80215031@news.comcast.giganews.com ...
>>> My '04 Sonata GLS has shifted like this from day 1, but my local
>>> dealer(Wright Hyundai) says there is nothing wrong. I will be VERY
>>> surprised if my engine makes it past 40,000 miles or so (currently
>>> about 8,000) because of the high rpms it produces in 2nd gear
>>>
>>>
>>> On level ground, it's not to bad, but if I start up a hill and I'm in
>>> 1st or 2nd, I can reach speeds of 60mph with the tach over 5 and it
>>> won't shift out of 2nd. 99% of the time I will have to manually shift
>>> into 3rd
>>>
>>> This is not normal operation, I don't care what some 'tech' from
>>> Hyundai says. I've been driving for well over 30 years, and never had
>>> tranny problems like this.
>>>
>>> I'll just keep complaining, keep good records and get a new engine and
>>> tranny in a year or so when these go. Bad thing is, I'm stuck with
>>> this lemon till I pay it off in another 5 years. Live and learn I
>>> guess
>>>
>>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:02:52 -0500, "FerdyPooh"
>>> <fredjr1@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Thought I'd throw in a comment here also---
>>> >
>>> >I have a 2004 Sonata GLS which has performed flawlessly since
>>> >delivery---except for the "peculiarity" that you have experienced.
>>> >
>>> >My Sonata has the delayed 2-3 upshift occurrence also; it's only from
>>cold
>>> >starts and disappears after the first 1/2 to 1 mile of driving, or at the
>>> >point of the first 2-3 upshift, whichever comes first. It then behaves
>>> >normally. As a side note, my car was delivered to me from the dealer 1/2
>>to
>>> >3/4 of a quart low on transmission fluid----after adding the proper
>>Hyundai
>>> >SP-III fluid to the tranny, the occurrence seemed to become better (by
>>that,
>>> >I mean that RPM's did not get as high and the "flare" not as severe
>>before
>>> >the upshift occurred).
>>> >
>>> >My personal feelings are that this is normal for Hyundai automatics, as I
>>> >traded a 2002 Elantra GLS for this car, and the Elantra had the same
>>> >anomaly. However, the referenced TSB's in this thread do not seem to
>>apply
>>> >to '04 models (correct me if wrong).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >"hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> >news:441ef3f631de7dfca7c9ff59c169913a@localhost.t alkaboutautos.com...
>>> >> Once upon a time, Hyundai had numerous transmission problems and
>>failures.
>>> >> This is not so anymore. I've gone from replacing about one
>>transmission
>>> >> every couple weeks in the nineties to one every month or two.
>>> >>
>>> >> At issue here is whether there is an actual transmission problem or
>>> >> whether the transmission is doing something as designed that the driver
>>> >> dislikes. Being short on details as to the exact specifics to the
>>later
>>> >> cases presented here, I'm left unable to provide any opinion on whether
>>> >> the vehicle is or is not behaving normally. If you've had the vehicle
>>to
>>> >> the dealer and they've been able to duplicate the condition and still
>>> >> think it's normal, it probably is (short of new reprograms such as the
>>one
>>> >> referenced above to address the issue). If you've received the
>>"normal"
>>> >> response and are not satisfied, take your car to another dealer for a
>>> >> second opinion. Do not tell them about your visits elsewhere; let them
>>> >> reach their own conclusion. Also, do not confuse "unable to duplicate"
>>> >> with "normal." "Unable to duplicate" simply means that the repair
>>> >> facility was unable to make the condition happen and was unable to find
>>> >> any problem which might cause it to happen. It does not indicate that
>>> >> there is no problem, just that it wasn't present when they inspected
>>the
>>> >> vehicle, and that they cannot recommend any repair for this reason.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>
>I had the TSB applied to my Sonata last week. I'm not sure I like the
>results. The shift time has decreased dramatically. That is great.
>The tranny used to take around a second to shift when above 3500 RPM.
>The lagging 2-3 upshift problem has gotten worse. I also seem to have
>developed a 3-4 upshift lag. This might be the transmission
>relearning but it has been almost 600 miles since the TSB was applied.
>My car learned a lot faster after I bought it (and reset the ECM). In
>addition, when in Shiftronic mode my car no longer automatically
>downshifts at 1000 RPM, it now waits until 700 RPM. It doesn't
>downshift from 3rd to 2nd either, it jumps straight down to 1st. This
>is a little annoying because there is no power in 3rd gear at 15 mph.

I'd just like to post up here again to let you guys know that the 2-3
and 3-4 upshift lag has, for the most part, finally gone away. It
only took 1000 miles...

My car still skips 2nd gear on the way down though unless I decelerate
slowly.

Re: 2003 Sonata 2-3 up shift problem
 

"FerdyPooh" <fredjr1@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<o2yjc.23390$oN1.20525@bignews5.bellsouth.net >...
> Thought I'd throw in a comment here also---
>
> I have a 2004 Sonata GLS which has performed flawlessly since
> delivery---except for the "peculiarity" that you have experienced.
>
> My Sonata has the delayed 2-3 upshift occurrence also; it's only from cold
> starts and disappears after the first 1/2 to 1 mile of driving, or at the
> point of the first 2-3 upshift, whichever comes first. It then behaves
> normally. As a side note, my car was delivered to me from the dealer 1/2 to
> 3/4 of a quart low on transmission fluid----after adding the proper Hyundai
> SP-III fluid to the tranny, the occurrence seemed to become better (by that,
> I mean that RPM's did not get as high and the "flare" not as severe before
> the upshift occurred).

Transmission shift flare refers to engine RPM shooting up momentarily
with a sensation of the tranny in NEUTRAL. Delayed shifting is
something else. It's normal when the engine is cold.

> My personal feelings are that this is normal for Hyundai automatics, as I
> traded a 2002 Elantra GLS for this car, and the Elantra had the same
> anomaly. However, the referenced TSB's in this thread do not seem to apply
> to '04 models (correct me if wrong).

What is the manufacture date of your car?

> "hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:441ef3f631de7dfca7c9ff59c169913a@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> > Once upon a time, Hyundai had numerous transmission problems and failures.
> > This is not so anymore. I've gone from replacing about one transmission
> > every couple weeks in the nineties to one every month or two.
> >
> > At issue here is whether there is an actual transmission problem or
> > whether the transmission is doing something as designed that the driver
> > dislikes. Being short on details as to the exact specifics to the later
> > cases presented here, I'm left unable to provide any opinion on whether
> > the vehicle is or is not behaving normally. If you've had the vehicle to
> > the dealer and they've been able to duplicate the condition and still
> > think it's normal, it probably is (short of new reprograms such as the one
> > referenced above to address the issue). If you've received the "normal"
> > response and are not satisfied, take your car to another dealer for a
> > second opinion. Do not tell them about your visits elsewhere; let them
> > reach their own conclusion. Also, do not confuse "unable to duplicate"
> > with "normal." "Unable to duplicate" simply means that the repair
> > facility was unable to make the condition happen and was unable to find
> > any problem which might cause it to happen. It does not indicate that
> > there is no problem, just that it wasn't present when they inspected the
> > vehicle, and that they cannot recommend any repair for this reason.
> >

Re: 2003 Sonata 2-3 up shift problem
 

flameout00@hotmail.com (wm) wrote in message news:<409eb26a.80215031@news.comcast.giganews.com> ...
> My '04 Sonata GLS has shifted like this from day 1, but my local
> dealer(Wright Hyundai) says there is nothing wrong. I will be VERY
> surprised if my engine makes it past 40,000 miles or so (currently
> about 8,000) because of the high rpms it produces in 2nd gear
>
>
> On level ground, it's not to bad, but if I start up a hill and I'm in
> 1st or 2nd, I can reach speeds of 60mph with the tach over 5 and it

Try this. Pull the TCM fuse off the fuse panel and put it back after
about a minute.

> won't shift out of 2nd. 99% of the time I will have to manually shift
> into 3rd
>
> This is not normal operation, I don't care what some 'tech' from
> Hyundai says. I've been driving for well over 30 years, and never had
> tranny problems like this.
>
> I'll just keep complaining, keep good records and get a new engine and
> tranny in a year or so when these go. Bad thing is, I'm stuck with
> this lemon till I pay it off in another 5 years. Live and learn I
> guess
>
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:02:52 -0500, "FerdyPooh"
> <fredjr1@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >Thought I'd throw in a comment here also---
> >
> >I have a 2004 Sonata GLS which has performed flawlessly since
> >delivery---except for the "peculiarity" that you have experienced.
> >
> >My Sonata has the delayed 2-3 upshift occurrence also; it's only from cold
> >starts and disappears after the first 1/2 to 1 mile of driving, or at the
> >point of the first 2-3 upshift, whichever comes first. It then behaves
> >normally. As a side note, my car was delivered to me from the dealer 1/2 to
> >3/4 of a quart low on transmission fluid----after adding the proper Hyundai
> >SP-III fluid to the tranny, the occurrence seemed to become better (by that,
> >I mean that RPM's did not get as high and the "flare" not as severe before
> >the upshift occurred).
> >
> >My personal feelings are that this is normal for Hyundai automatics, as I
> >traded a 2002 Elantra GLS for this car, and the Elantra had the same
> >anomaly. However, the referenced TSB's in this thread do not seem to apply
> >to '04 models (correct me if wrong).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >"hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:441ef3f631de7dfca7c9ff59c169913a@localhost.t alkaboutautos.com...
> >> Once upon a time, Hyundai had numerous transmission problems and failures.
> >> This is not so anymore. I've gone from replacing about one transmission
> >> every couple weeks in the nineties to one every month or two.
> >>
> >> At issue here is whether there is an actual transmission problem or
> >> whether the transmission is doing something as designed that the driver
> >> dislikes. Being short on details as to the exact specifics to the later
> >> cases presented here, I'm left unable to provide any opinion on whether
> >> the vehicle is or is not behaving normally. If you've had the vehicle to
> >> the dealer and they've been able to duplicate the condition and still
> >> think it's normal, it probably is (short of new reprograms such as the one
> >> referenced above to address the issue). If you've received the "normal"
> >> response and are not satisfied, take your car to another dealer for a
> >> second opinion. Do not tell them about your visits elsewhere; let them
> >> reach their own conclusion. Also, do not confuse "unable to duplicate"
> >> with "normal." "Unable to duplicate" simply means that the repair
> >> facility was unable to make the condition happen and was unable to find
> >> any problem which might cause it to happen. It does not indicate that
> >> there is no problem, just that it wasn't present when they inspected the
> >> vehicle, and that they cannot recommend any repair for this reason.
> >>
> >
> >

Re: 2003 Sonata 2-3 up shift problem
 

flameout00@hotmail.com (wm) wrote in message news:<40aebd94.12763281@news.comcast.giganews.com> ...
> On Wed, 19 May 2004 22:32:16 GMT, "BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
> >No charge. I had been complaining of this shift problem since the vehicle
> >was new and recently informed the dealer I was ready to seek arbitration. I
> >feel Hyundai should have an automatic recall for all 2002-2003 Sonata to
> >upgrade transaxle software. I'm sure they will reprogram to keep a happy
> >customer.
> >Bob
> >
>
> Don't forget to add the '04 model Sonata's to the list. Bought my '04
> in Nov '03. It better be an '04!

Have a dealer update the TCM.

Re: 2003 Sonata 2-3 up shift problem
 

<theta00k@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4bc10560.0405280932.616423e@posting.google.co m...
> "FerdyPooh" <fredjr1@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<o2yjc.23390$oN1.20525@bignews5.bellsouth.net >...
> > Thought I'd throw in a comment here also---
> >
> > I have a 2004 Sonata GLS which has performed flawlessly since
> > delivery---except for the "peculiarity" that you have experienced.
> >
> > My Sonata has the delayed 2-3 upshift occurrence also; it's only from
cold
> > starts and disappears after the first 1/2 to 1 mile of driving, or at
the
> > point of the first 2-3 upshift, whichever comes first. It then behaves
> > normally. As a side note, my car was delivered to me from the dealer
1/2 to
> > 3/4 of a quart low on transmission fluid----after adding the proper
Hyundai
> > SP-III fluid to the tranny, the occurrence seemed to become better (by
that,
> > I mean that RPM's did not get as high and the "flare" not as severe
before
> > the upshift occurred).
>
> Transmission shift flare refers to engine RPM shooting up momentarily
> with a sensation of the tranny in NEUTRAL. Delayed shifting is
> something else. It's normal when the engine is cold.
>
> > My personal feelings are that this is normal for Hyundai automatics, as
I
> > traded a 2002 Elantra GLS for this car, and the Elantra had the same
> > anomaly. However, the referenced TSB's in this thread do not seem to
apply
> > to '04 models (correct me if wrong).
>
> What is the manufacture date of your car?

August 16, 2003













>
> > "hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:441ef3f631de7dfca7c9ff59c169913a@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> > > Once upon a time, Hyundai had numerous transmission problems and
failures.
> > > This is not so anymore. I've gone from replacing about one
transmission
> > > every couple weeks in the nineties to one every month or two.
> > >
> > > At issue here is whether there is an actual transmission problem or
> > > whether the transmission is doing something as designed that the
driver
> > > dislikes. Being short on details as to the exact specifics to the
later
> > > cases presented here, I'm left unable to provide any opinion on
whether
> > > the vehicle is or is not behaving normally. If you've had the vehicle
to
> > > the dealer and they've been able to duplicate the condition and still
> > > think it's normal, it probably is (short of new reprograms such as the
one
> > > referenced above to address the issue). If you've received the
"normal"
> > > response and are not satisfied, take your car to another dealer for a
> > > second opinion. Do not tell them about your visits elsewhere; let
them
> > > reach their own conclusion. Also, do not confuse "unable to
duplicate"
> > > with "normal." "Unable to duplicate" simply means that the repair
> > > facility was unable to make the condition happen and was unable to
find
> > > any problem which might cause it to happen. It does not indicate that
> > > there is no problem, just that it wasn't present when they inspected
the
> > > vehicle, and that they cannot recommend any repair for this reason.
> > >