pdp11@techie.com

Thanks everyone for the comments!

We went to our local Hyundai dealer today and took a look at some used
Santa Fe SUVs as well as the new Sonata! Needless to say after driving
it, we really like the Sonata. From the comments here and looking at
the car's ground clearance I believe it will do just fine for our
purposes. (And hey, you never know when I'll run across another
inexpensive Eagle I can pick up for a few bucks, though the wife may
have something to say about that. :-)

With a variety of rebates and discounts applied, the dealer has quoted
us a price of $16,831 for a Sonata GLS V6. We are also interested in
the factory extended bumper-to-bumper warrantee, have not gotten a
quote on that yet.

Eric G.

pdp11@techie.com wrote in news:1137879713.038887.292380
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> Thanks everyone for the comments!
>
> We went to our local Hyundai dealer today and took a look at some used
> Santa Fe SUVs as well as the new Sonata! Needless to say after driving
> it, we really like the Sonata. From the comments here and looking at
> the car's ground clearance I believe it will do just fine for our
> purposes. (And hey, you never know when I'll run across another
> inexpensive Eagle I can pick up for a few bucks, though the wife may
> have something to say about that. :-)
>
> With a variety of rebates and discounts applied, the dealer has quoted
> us a price of $16,831 for a Sonata GLS V6. We are also interested in
> the factory extended bumper-to-bumper warrantee, have not gotten a
> quote on that yet.

That is an excellent price!! I paid $17,200 for the exact same vehicle at
the end of September. If you wait until the end of the month, you might
even be able to get a few hundred more off. I did not get the extended
warranty, so I can't help you there.

Good luck with the purchase.

Eric G.

pdp11@techie.com wrote in news:1137879713.038887.292380
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> Thanks everyone for the comments!
>
> We went to our local Hyundai dealer today and took a look at some used
> Santa Fe SUVs as well as the new Sonata! Needless to say after driving
> it, we really like the Sonata. From the comments here and looking at
> the car's ground clearance I believe it will do just fine for our
> purposes. (And hey, you never know when I'll run across another
> inexpensive Eagle I can pick up for a few bucks, though the wife may
> have something to say about that. :-)
>
> With a variety of rebates and discounts applied, the dealer has quoted
> us a price of $16,831 for a Sonata GLS V6. We are also interested in
> the factory extended bumper-to-bumper warrantee, have not gotten a
> quote on that yet.

That is an excellent price!! I paid $17,200 for the exact same vehicle at
the end of September. If you wait until the end of the month, you might
even be able to get a few hundred more off. I did not get the extended
warranty, so I can't help you there.

Good luck with the purchase.

Eric G.

pdp11@techie.com wrote in news:1137879713.038887.292380
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> Thanks everyone for the comments!
>
> We went to our local Hyundai dealer today and took a look at some used
> Santa Fe SUVs as well as the new Sonata! Needless to say after driving
> it, we really like the Sonata. From the comments here and looking at
> the car's ground clearance I believe it will do just fine for our
> purposes. (And hey, you never know when I'll run across another
> inexpensive Eagle I can pick up for a few bucks, though the wife may
> have something to say about that. :-)
>
> With a variety of rebates and discounts applied, the dealer has quoted
> us a price of $16,831 for a Sonata GLS V6. We are also interested in
> the factory extended bumper-to-bumper warrantee, have not gotten a
> quote on that yet.

That is an excellent price!! I paid $17,200 for the exact same vehicle at
the end of September. If you wait until the end of the month, you might
even be able to get a few hundred more off. I did not get the extended
warranty, so I can't help you there.

Good luck with the purchase.

B Crawford

I drive a 2001 XG with good snows all round. This is in very remote &
mountainous snow country. I can't believe how well this car goes up steep
snow covered roads. The TCS light often flashes on these mountain byroads
but I've never even felt vulnerable to getting stuck -as long as I stay away
from deep wheel ruts (low vehicle clearance). I have to add that the snow
tires made a huge difference over the all-seasons I used to 'winter' on in
Southern Ontario.
BC in BC
<pdp11@techie.com> wrote in message
news:1137879713.038887.292380@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> Thanks everyone for the comments!
>
> We went to our local Hyundai dealer today and took a look at some used
> Santa Fe SUVs as well as the new Sonata! Needless to say after driving
> it, we really like the Sonata. From the comments here and looking at
> the car's ground clearance I believe it will do just fine for our
> purposes. (And hey, you never know when I'll run across another
> inexpensive Eagle I can pick up for a few bucks, though the wife may
> have something to say about that. :-)
>
> With a variety of rebates and discounts applied, the dealer has quoted
> us a price of $16,831 for a Sonata GLS V6. We are also interested in
> the factory extended bumper-to-bumper warrantee, have not gotten a
> quote on that yet.
>

B Crawford

I drive a 2001 XG with good snows all round. This is in very remote &
mountainous snow country. I can't believe how well this car goes up steep
snow covered roads. The TCS light often flashes on these mountain byroads
but I've never even felt vulnerable to getting stuck -as long as I stay away
from deep wheel ruts (low vehicle clearance). I have to add that the snow
tires made a huge difference over the all-seasons I used to 'winter' on in
Southern Ontario.
BC in BC
<pdp11@techie.com> wrote in message
news:1137879713.038887.292380@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> Thanks everyone for the comments!
>
> We went to our local Hyundai dealer today and took a look at some used
> Santa Fe SUVs as well as the new Sonata! Needless to say after driving
> it, we really like the Sonata. From the comments here and looking at
> the car's ground clearance I believe it will do just fine for our
> purposes. (And hey, you never know when I'll run across another
> inexpensive Eagle I can pick up for a few bucks, though the wife may
> have something to say about that. :-)
>
> With a variety of rebates and discounts applied, the dealer has quoted
> us a price of $16,831 for a Sonata GLS V6. We are also interested in
> the factory extended bumper-to-bumper warrantee, have not gotten a
> quote on that yet.
>

B Crawford

I drive a 2001 XG with good snows all round. This is in very remote &
mountainous snow country. I can't believe how well this car goes up steep
snow covered roads. The TCS light often flashes on these mountain byroads
but I've never even felt vulnerable to getting stuck -as long as I stay away
from deep wheel ruts (low vehicle clearance). I have to add that the snow
tires made a huge difference over the all-seasons I used to 'winter' on in
Southern Ontario.
BC in BC
<pdp11@techie.com> wrote in message
news:1137879713.038887.292380@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> Thanks everyone for the comments!
>
> We went to our local Hyundai dealer today and took a look at some used
> Santa Fe SUVs as well as the new Sonata! Needless to say after driving
> it, we really like the Sonata. From the comments here and looking at
> the car's ground clearance I believe it will do just fine for our
> purposes. (And hey, you never know when I'll run across another
> inexpensive Eagle I can pick up for a few bucks, though the wife may
> have something to say about that. :-)
>
> With a variety of rebates and discounts applied, the dealer has quoted
> us a price of $16,831 for a Sonata GLS V6. We are also interested in
> the factory extended bumper-to-bumper warrantee, have not gotten a
> quote on that yet.
>

gerry

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On 20 Jan 2006 20:32:06 -0800, pdp11@techie.com wrote:

>Matt Whiting wrote:
>> I just noticed your "handle" of pdp11. You do mean THE PDR-11, right?
>
>Yes, in another life I used to work for DEC in New Hampshire, and
>worked primarily with PDP-11 systems, though also some DEC-20 and Vax
>stuff.
>
>> That sure brings back old memories. I still remember way too many
>> RSX-11 commands...
>
>I did so much Macro-11 programming that at one time I could practically
>do it in my sleep. Amazing what we used to accomplish in that 16-bit
>(64K) address space. These days that's not even a good-sized buffer.


I was in\ Maynard, small 11 development.

It amazes me how many of today's security flaws couldn't happen on most of
the later 11's. Those 11's had stacks managed by hardware so no chance of
a buffer overrun. Add I and D space and you can't execute data anyway!

gerry - DEC badge 49404



--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

gerry

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On 20 Jan 2006 20:32:06 -0800, pdp11@techie.com wrote:

>Matt Whiting wrote:
>> I just noticed your "handle" of pdp11. You do mean THE PDR-11, right?
>
>Yes, in another life I used to work for DEC in New Hampshire, and
>worked primarily with PDP-11 systems, though also some DEC-20 and Vax
>stuff.
>
>> That sure brings back old memories. I still remember way too many
>> RSX-11 commands...
>
>I did so much Macro-11 programming that at one time I could practically
>do it in my sleep. Amazing what we used to accomplish in that 16-bit
>(64K) address space. These days that's not even a good-sized buffer.


I was in\ Maynard, small 11 development.

It amazes me how many of today's security flaws couldn't happen on most of
the later 11's. Those 11's had stacks managed by hardware so no chance of
a buffer overrun. Add I and D space and you can't execute data anyway!

gerry - DEC badge 49404



--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

gerry

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On 20 Jan 2006 20:32:06 -0800, pdp11@techie.com wrote:

>Matt Whiting wrote:
>> I just noticed your "handle" of pdp11. You do mean THE PDR-11, right?
>
>Yes, in another life I used to work for DEC in New Hampshire, and
>worked primarily with PDP-11 systems, though also some DEC-20 and Vax
>stuff.
>
>> That sure brings back old memories. I still remember way too many
>> RSX-11 commands...
>
>I did so much Macro-11 programming that at one time I could practically
>do it in my sleep. Amazing what we used to accomplish in that 16-bit
>(64K) address space. These days that's not even a good-sized buffer.


I was in\ Maynard, small 11 development.

It amazes me how many of today's security flaws couldn't happen on most of
the later 11's. Those 11's had stacks managed by hardware so no chance of
a buffer overrun. Add I and D space and you can't execute data anyway!

gerry - DEC badge 49404



--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

pdp11@techie.com

gerry wrote:
> I was in\ Maynard, small 11 development.

I worked in Software Services, primary job was doing custom software
development for DEC's customers, secondary was going out on pre-sales
calls with the sales droids. (That was always a picnic!) In those days
it was IBM that was the "evil empire."

I miss DEC a lot, really a shame what happened to that company; it was
a great place to work in the 1980s. It started going downhill for a
variety of reasons in the 1990s, which is when I left to start my own
business. I was vested in DEC's pension plan, so I suppose in a few
years I'll be knocking on HP's door for that. (Though I have no idea
what HP's policy is on the obligations they picked up with their
acquisition of Compaq, which of course initially acquired DEC. With the
current crisis in private pension plans in general, who knows what's
actually there. But I digress...)

> It amazes me how many of today's security flaws couldn't happen on most of
> the later 11's. Those 11's had stacks managed by hardware so no chance of
> a buffer overrun. Add I and D space and you can't execute data anyway!

I remember when I started working with separate I & D space machines,
the freedom of all that extra address space!! I always dreaded getting
the TKB message that the task was too large, as setting up overlays was
always a PITA. Today's software in incredibly bloated, I remember
fighting for every byte that could be conserved. I've toyed with the
idea of trying to find an old Micro-11 to play around with, it would be
fun.

DEC's systems have not died off completely. I have a friend working in
a shop that still runs VMS (actually OpenVMS) on Alpha hardware. There
certainly are still PDP-11s out there, quietly doing their jobs. That
segment of DECs business was sold to Mentec (www.mentec-inc.com) which
still provides hardware and software support for the PDP-11 line.

pdp11@techie.com

gerry wrote:
> I was in\ Maynard, small 11 development.

I worked in Software Services, primary job was doing custom software
development for DEC's customers, secondary was going out on pre-sales
calls with the sales droids. (That was always a picnic!) In those days
it was IBM that was the "evil empire."

I miss DEC a lot, really a shame what happened to that company; it was
a great place to work in the 1980s. It started going downhill for a
variety of reasons in the 1990s, which is when I left to start my own
business. I was vested in DEC's pension plan, so I suppose in a few
years I'll be knocking on HP's door for that. (Though I have no idea
what HP's policy is on the obligations they picked up with their
acquisition of Compaq, which of course initially acquired DEC. With the
current crisis in private pension plans in general, who knows what's
actually there. But I digress...)

> It amazes me how many of today's security flaws couldn't happen on most of
> the later 11's. Those 11's had stacks managed by hardware so no chance of
> a buffer overrun. Add I and D space and you can't execute data anyway!

I remember when I started working with separate I & D space machines,
the freedom of all that extra address space!! I always dreaded getting
the TKB message that the task was too large, as setting up overlays was
always a PITA. Today's software in incredibly bloated, I remember
fighting for every byte that could be conserved. I've toyed with the
idea of trying to find an old Micro-11 to play around with, it would be
fun.

DEC's systems have not died off completely. I have a friend working in
a shop that still runs VMS (actually OpenVMS) on Alpha hardware. There
certainly are still PDP-11s out there, quietly doing their jobs. That
segment of DECs business was sold to Mentec (www.mentec-inc.com) which
still provides hardware and software support for the PDP-11 line.

pdp11@techie.com

gerry wrote:
> I was in\ Maynard, small 11 development.

I worked in Software Services, primary job was doing custom software
development for DEC's customers, secondary was going out on pre-sales
calls with the sales droids. (That was always a picnic!) In those days
it was IBM that was the "evil empire."

I miss DEC a lot, really a shame what happened to that company; it was
a great place to work in the 1980s. It started going downhill for a
variety of reasons in the 1990s, which is when I left to start my own
business. I was vested in DEC's pension plan, so I suppose in a few
years I'll be knocking on HP's door for that. (Though I have no idea
what HP's policy is on the obligations they picked up with their
acquisition of Compaq, which of course initially acquired DEC. With the
current crisis in private pension plans in general, who knows what's
actually there. But I digress...)

> It amazes me how many of today's security flaws couldn't happen on most of
> the later 11's. Those 11's had stacks managed by hardware so no chance of
> a buffer overrun. Add I and D space and you can't execute data anyway!

I remember when I started working with separate I & D space machines,
the freedom of all that extra address space!! I always dreaded getting
the TKB message that the task was too large, as setting up overlays was
always a PITA. Today's software in incredibly bloated, I remember
fighting for every byte that could be conserved. I've toyed with the
idea of trying to find an old Micro-11 to play around with, it would be
fun.

DEC's systems have not died off completely. I have a friend working in
a shop that still runs VMS (actually OpenVMS) on Alpha hardware. There
certainly are still PDP-11s out there, quietly doing their jobs. That
segment of DECs business was sold to Mentec (www.mentec-inc.com) which
still provides hardware and software support for the PDP-11 line.

Jody

get some good snow tires, you wont have a problem with the sonata unless its
passed the bumper deep..
<pdp11@techie.com> wrote in message
news:1137801839.780674.133060@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>> Keep in mind that traction control only helps maximize the traction
>> available to the FWD car, it isn't magic and certainly can't match the
>> traction that the additional two wheels will provide in an AWD vehicle.
>
> Yes, I do understand that, I'm just trying to determine whether the
> Sonata with traction control would be 'good enough' for our purposes.
> The Eagle was an extra vehicle, not used for everyday driving, so gas
> mileage was not all that much of a concern with it. However if we
> purchase a new (or late model used) vehicle, we'll be selling or
> trading the wife's 2000 Sonata and the new car will be a daily driver,
> so gas consumption is something we have to be a little mindful of. I
> checked some owner reviews of the Subaru Legacy/Outback (another
> obvious choice for 4WD), and people were complaining about the gas
> mileage and performance, just like I've seen with the Tucson! Obviously
> 4-wheel-drive is going to carry a penalty in those departments, but I'm
> surprised that all the modern tech is not delivering much more
> efficiency than our old Eagle did.
>
>> Also, the Eagle had very good ground clearance for a car, almost as
>
> The AMC Eagle was way ahead of its time. We're really going to miss
> ours, even though in recent years it had become a real challenge to
> keep its nightmare emissions system serviced, and the dreaded tinworm
> was really starting to get the best of it.
>
>> I've not driven the Hyundai SUVs, so I can't comment about them, but
>
> The in-laws have a 2004 4WD Santa Fe with the 2.7 V6. They love it, but
> don't drive very much so gas mileage is not a big factor for them.
>
>> I'll bet you a steak dinner that they will go much better in deep snow
>> than will a Sonata with traction control ... unless you put chains on
>
> I have no doubt! Even the Eagle with its fairly primitive 4WD system
> was like a mountain goat in the snow. (And our '86 had an open center
> differential, power went to the wheel that slipped! They just didn't
> slip much. Other years used a viscous coupling.)
>
> Of course it would also be possible to buy a new Sonata and look for
> another inexpensive Eagle or an old Jeep to do winter 4WD duty.
> (Eagles are not very common any more, but they are still out there.
> Actually saw one on the road yesterday. No "for sale" sign, though.)
>
> Decisions, decisions...
>

Jody

get some good snow tires, you wont have a problem with the sonata unless its
passed the bumper deep..
<pdp11@techie.com> wrote in message
news:1137801839.780674.133060@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>> Keep in mind that traction control only helps maximize the traction
>> available to the FWD car, it isn't magic and certainly can't match the
>> traction that the additional two wheels will provide in an AWD vehicle.
>
> Yes, I do understand that, I'm just trying to determine whether the
> Sonata with traction control would be 'good enough' for our purposes.
> The Eagle was an extra vehicle, not used for everyday driving, so gas
> mileage was not all that much of a concern with it. However if we
> purchase a new (or late model used) vehicle, we'll be selling or
> trading the wife's 2000 Sonata and the new car will be a daily driver,
> so gas consumption is something we have to be a little mindful of. I
> checked some owner reviews of the Subaru Legacy/Outback (another
> obvious choice for 4WD), and people were complaining about the gas
> mileage and performance, just like I've seen with the Tucson! Obviously
> 4-wheel-drive is going to carry a penalty in those departments, but I'm
> surprised that all the modern tech is not delivering much more
> efficiency than our old Eagle did.
>
>> Also, the Eagle had very good ground clearance for a car, almost as
>
> The AMC Eagle was way ahead of its time. We're really going to miss
> ours, even though in recent years it had become a real challenge to
> keep its nightmare emissions system serviced, and the dreaded tinworm
> was really starting to get the best of it.
>
>> I've not driven the Hyundai SUVs, so I can't comment about them, but
>
> The in-laws have a 2004 4WD Santa Fe with the 2.7 V6. They love it, but
> don't drive very much so gas mileage is not a big factor for them.
>
>> I'll bet you a steak dinner that they will go much better in deep snow
>> than will a Sonata with traction control ... unless you put chains on
>
> I have no doubt! Even the Eagle with its fairly primitive 4WD system
> was like a mountain goat in the snow. (And our '86 had an open center
> differential, power went to the wheel that slipped! They just didn't
> slip much. Other years used a viscous coupling.)
>
> Of course it would also be possible to buy a new Sonata and look for
> another inexpensive Eagle or an old Jeep to do winter 4WD duty.
> (Eagles are not very common any more, but they are still out there.
> Actually saw one on the road yesterday. No "for sale" sign, though.)
>
> Decisions, decisions...
>