Voyager

Having seen a picture or two of the new Sonata design, I think having
only a 4 cylinder available will be the least of its problems. I think
the car is butt ugly. I really enjoy the clean and crisp lines of my
2006 and they didn't muck it up too bad when they changed it in 09 (or
whenever it was that they changed the grill, etc.). However, this new
design looks like a Toyota Camry that was in an oven and melted a
little. Yuck!

What do others think of this styling? I haven't seen a good rear shot
yet, just some partials of the tail light and one corner, but the rear
looks as ugly as the front. I probably need another minivan, but
Hyundai dropped theirs and the nearest Kia dealer is too far away. So,
it looks like back to Chrysler for the third time unless I decide I can
get by with a car. The design of this Sonata is making the Chevy Impala
look more and more attractive. It is a sharp looking car (OK, this rear
is somewhat ugly) and the reviews on performance of the new Chevy models
has been quite good. Although, I find buying a car from the Feds to be
a very distasteful proposition.

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/wp-...concept_03.jpg


Matt

Partner

I like it except for the front. The grill is much too big.

"Voyager" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote in message
news:azuYm.118964$gg6.77327@newsfe25.iad...
> Having seen a picture or two of the new Sonata design, I think having
> only a 4 cylinder available will be the least of its problems. I think
> the car is butt ugly. I really enjoy the clean and crisp lines of my
> 2006 and they didn't muck it up too bad when they changed it in 09 (or
> whenever it was that they changed the grill, etc.). However, this new
> design looks like a Toyota Camry that was in an oven and melted a
> little. Yuck!
>
> What do others think of this styling? I haven't seen a good rear shot
> yet, just some partials of the tail light and one corner, but the rear
> looks as ugly as the front. I probably need another minivan, but
> Hyundai dropped theirs and the nearest Kia dealer is too far away. So,
> it looks like back to Chrysler for the third time unless I decide I can
> get by with a car. The design of this Sonata is making the Chevy Impala
> look more and more attractive. It is a sharp looking car (OK, this rear
> is somewhat ugly) and the reviews on performance of the new Chevy models
> has been quite good. Although, I find buying a car from the Feds to be
> a very distasteful proposition.
>
> http://www.themotorreport.com.au/wp-...concept_03.jpg
>
>
> Matt

Ed Pawlowski

Voyager wrote:
> Having seen a picture or two of the new Sonata design, I think having
> only a 4 cylinder available will be the least of its problems. I
> think the car is butt ugly. I really enjoy the clean and crisp lines
> of my 2006 and they didn't muck it up too bad when they changed it in
> 09 (or whenever it was that they changed the grill, etc.). However,
> this new design looks like a Toyota Camry that was in an oven and
> melted a little. Yuck!
>
> What do others think of this styling? I haven't seen a good rear shot
> yet, just some partials of the tail light and one corner, but the rear
> looks as ugly as the front.

Have you looked at the shots from the Hyundai webs site? They have full 360
views and a couple of shots from the rear. I like the sculpted side and I
don't think the front in peros will be as dramatic as the photo makes it
look. I think I could like it.



> I probably need another minivan, but
> Hyundai dropped theirs and the nearest Kia dealer is too far away. So, it
> looks like back to Chrysler for the third time unless I decide
> I can get by with a car. The design of this Sonata is making the
> Chevy Impala look more and more attractive. It is a sharp looking
> car (OK, this rear is somewhat ugly) and the reviews on performance
> of the new Chevy models has been quite good. Although, I find buying
> a car from the Feds to be a very distasteful proposition.

If you buy a new car from GM, you get two free years of Medicare though, and
a copy of Ted Kennedy's book. The new Mailbu is good looking, I just don't
trust GM after the last car pissed me off.


>
> http://www.themotorreport.com.au/wp-...concept_03.jpg
>
Terrible photo, IMO.

Marc

I also like the looks of my 2006 but like the looks of the new
one......at least from the photos on Hyundai's website. I'm not sure
about the roof line, particularly by the rear door. It looks like
getting in and out of the rear seat is going to be a struggle. The
other potential issue I see is with the seats themselves. From the
photos it looks like the seat back sides are built up quite a bit.
Similar to my wife's Accord and I find these seats very uncomfortable.

Voyager

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Voyager wrote:
>> Having seen a picture or two of the new Sonata design, I think having
>> only a 4 cylinder available will be the least of its problems. I
>> think the car is butt ugly. I really enjoy the clean and crisp lines
>> of my 2006 and they didn't muck it up too bad when they changed it in
>> 09 (or whenever it was that they changed the grill, etc.). However,
>> this new design looks like a Toyota Camry that was in an oven and
>> melted a little. Yuck!
>>
>> What do others think of this styling? I haven't seen a good rear shot
>> yet, just some partials of the tail light and one corner, but the rear
>> looks as ugly as the front.
>
> Have you looked at the shots from the Hyundai webs site? They have full 360
> views and a couple of shots from the rear. I like the sculpted side and I
> don't think the front in peros will be as dramatic as the photo makes it
> look. I think I could like it.

I tried, but the section on the new Sonata won't open in SeaMonkey. It
might in IE, but I hate IE and seldom use it or sites that require it.
The home page comes up OK, but when I click on the "All-New 2011 Sonata"
picture nothing happens.


>> I probably need another minivan, but
>> Hyundai dropped theirs and the nearest Kia dealer is too far away. So, it
>> looks like back to Chrysler for the third time unless I decide
>> I can get by with a car. The design of this Sonata is making the
>> Chevy Impala look more and more attractive. It is a sharp looking
>> car (OK, this rear is somewhat ugly) and the reviews on performance
>> of the new Chevy models has been quite good. Although, I find buying
>> a car from the Feds to be a very distasteful proposition.
>
> If you buy a new car from GM, you get two free years of Medicare though, and
> a copy of Ted Kennedy's book. The new Mailbu is good looking, I just don't
> trust GM after the last car pissed me off.

Ha, ha, ha. I was with you until the Kennedy book. That was the
deal-breaker for me! I've actually had pretty good luck with GM
vehicles over the years so that doesn't deter me. My issue was more the
dealers than the vehicles, but I now have a pretty good dealer in the area.

Matt

Voyager

Voyager wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> Voyager wrote:
>>> Having seen a picture or two of the new Sonata design, I think having
>>> only a 4 cylinder available will be the least of its problems. I
>>> think the car is butt ugly. I really enjoy the clean and crisp lines
>>> of my 2006 and they didn't muck it up too bad when they changed it in
>>> 09 (or whenever it was that they changed the grill, etc.). However,
>>> this new design looks like a Toyota Camry that was in an oven and
>>> melted a little. Yuck!
>>>
>>> What do others think of this styling? I haven't seen a good rear shot
>>> yet, just some partials of the tail light and one corner, but the rear
>>> looks as ugly as the front.
>>
>> Have you looked at the shots from the Hyundai webs site? They have
>> full 360 views and a couple of shots from the rear. I like the
>> sculpted side and I don't think the front in peros will be as dramatic
>> as the photo makes it look. I think I could like it.
>
> I tried, but the section on the new Sonata won't open in SeaMonkey. It
> might in IE, but I hate IE and seldom use it or sites that require it.
> The home page comes up OK, but when I click on the "All-New 2011 Sonata"
> picture nothing happens.

I got it to open with IE. Still ugly to me. :-)

It may look better in person than in the pictures though so I'll reserve
final judgment until I see one in the flesh.

Matt

Ed Pawlowski

Voyager wrote:

> I got it to open with IE. Still ugly to me. :-)
>
> It may look better in person than in the pictures though so I'll
> reserve final judgment until I see one in the flesh.
>
> Matt


Looks like the Genesis. It won't matter to me because I just go a new '10
so I won't be in the market for a while yet.

I never cared for Hyundai that much until the present models of Sonata
appeared in '06 and I liked it. While my criteria for buying a car take
many things into consideration, no matter how good the reliability is, it
has to be pleasing to my eye. You'd never catch me with a Honda Element and
that black plastic fenders, or most anything from Chrysler. .

Voyager

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Voyager wrote:
>
>> I got it to open with IE. Still ugly to me. :-)
>>
>> It may look better in person than in the pictures though so I'll
>> reserve final judgment until I see one in the flesh.
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> Looks like the Genesis. It won't matter to me because I just go a new '10
> so I won't be in the market for a while yet.
>
> I never cared for Hyundai that much until the present models of Sonata
> appeared in '06 and I liked it. While my criteria for buying a car take
> many things into consideration, no matter how good the reliability is, it
> has to be pleasing to my eye. You'd never catch me with a Honda Element and
> that black plastic fenders, or most anything from Chrysler. .

If you don't think the new Challenge is pleasing to look at, you need
new glasses!! :-)

http://www.dodge.com/en/2010/challenger/

Matt

Voyager

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Looks like the Genesis. It won't matter to me because I just go a new '10
> so I won't be in the market for a while yet.

Yes, it has followed the theme of the Genesis (and I found its styling
much less attractive than the Sonata of 2006), but it has taken it to an
extreme with the sloped triangular shaped headlights. I also don't like
at all the hood lines that extend through the grill and look like a
distortion in a picture (which is what I thought they were at first!).

Ugly. However, if I am the only one that doesn't like the styling, then
Hyundai made the right choice! I tend to keep my vehicles a minimum of
10 years or 200,000 miles barring severe accident or having a lemon.
I've only had one real lemon (Honda Accord) and I traded that at 5 years
of age with 90K miles or so). I've had two other vehicles totaled (146K
and 178K) and the rest I still have! :-)

I won't be in the market for a replacement for my 2006 Sonata until
probably 2016 and there will be at least more more generation of Sonata
by then. However, I must admit that the new Chevy Volt is a very
intriguing car and I will give it serious thought if I can charge it at
my house.

If I didn't need at least one more minivan, I would be in the market for
a second car in 2-3 years, but it appears I need to wear out at least
one more minivan before the kids are all gone. :-(

Matt

Ed Pawlowski

Voyager wrote:

>
> Yes, it has followed the theme of the Genesis (and I found its styling
> much less attractive than the Sonata of 2006), but it has taken it to
> an extreme with the sloped triangular shaped headlights. I also
> don't like at all the hood lines that extend through the grill and
> look like a distortion in a picture (which is what I thought they
> were at first!).

The salesman at the Hyundai dealership said the 2011 is going to be a
somewhat limited edition to see how well it goes over with buyers. Calling
it a Sonata though, seems to limit the possibilities. If it does not sell
well, do they just go back to the older style? I doubt it. Do they have
another more sophisticated design in the works?.
>

>
> I won't be in the market for a replacement for my 2006 Sonata until
> probably 2016 and there will be at least more more generation of
> Sonata by then. However, I must admit that the new Chevy Volt is a
> very intriguing car and I will give it serious thought if I can
> charge it at my house.

I'm still hesitant about hybrids, but they have been around now for a few
years and seem reliable. My concern is the cost of battery replacement after
the initial five years. Or some other battery related problem as in
hazardous waste disposal or the like.

The Volt only goes 40 miles on a charge. It could be my daily commuter if
I charge it at work, (50 mile round trip) but for taking a trip, it does
not seem to be the way to go. Unless the gas engine proves economical for
charging as you go.



>
> If I didn't need at least one more minivan, I would be in the market
> for a second car in 2-3 years, but it appears I need to wear out at
> least one more minivan before the kids are all gone. :-(

Minivans did not exist when my kids were growing up so I was spared that
situation.

Voyager

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> The salesman at the Hyundai dealership said the 2011 is going to be a
> somewhat limited edition to see how well it goes over with buyers. Calling
> it a Sonata though, seems to limit the possibilities. If it does not sell
> well, do they just go back to the older style? I doubt it. Do they have
> another more sophisticated design in the works?.

Interesting that they would experiment with probably their most
mainstream vehicle, at least in the US.


> I'm still hesitant about hybrids, but they have been around now for a few
> years and seem reliable. My concern is the cost of battery replacement after
> the initial five years. Or some other battery related problem as in
> hazardous waste disposal or the like.

I have been hesitant also, but I know a few folks that have hybrids (one
who has a first or second model year Prius) and so far the results
have been good. His Prius is still on the original batteries and it is
something like 10 years old now.


> The Volt only goes 40 miles on a charge. It could be my daily commuter if
> I charge it at work, (50 mile round trip) but for taking a trip, it does
> not seem to be the way to go. Unless the gas engine proves economical for
> charging as you go.

My commute is almost exactly 40 miles round trip so I would be close to
all-electric propulsion. What I would really like is an engine that can
run on both gasoline and NG! I have fairly cheap NG where I live.


> Minivans did not exist when my kids were growing up so I was spared that
> situation.

Wow, you must be old! :-)

My first minivan was a 1996 and now I have a 2003. I am debating
whether to buy a 3rd, but with a second child about to enter college and
a 13 year-old it seems to make sense. We could carry all of the stuff
for college in the van, whereas with a car I would have to rent a
U-haul. And the vans aren't bad for daily commuters although not as
efficient as a car. They are great for long-distance traveling though
as they ride as well as most luxury cars (better than my Sonata), have a
nicer seating position and are very quiet. And the fuel mileage isn't
that much worse than the Sonata (25 vs. 30) on the highway.

I wish Hyundai had not dropped the Entourage as I was very close to
buying one of those when I found out they were to be dropped. Oh well,
the Chryslers haven't been that bad to us, but they are more troublesome
than some other vehicles I have had. And you can about guarantee that
you need a fuel pump at 100-120K miles!

Matt

Ed Pawlowski

Voyager wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>> Minivans did not exist when my kids were growing up so I was spared
>> that situation.
>
> Wow, you must be old! :-)

My kids are 41 and 39. Vans just came into existance in the early '60s with
the Ford Econoline and a Chevy version. Most were used as utility vehicles,
not so much for passengers. The passenger versions were usually big
families or commuter vans more than the main family ride.

Along the way, I did have a couple of station wagons though. A '68 Olds
Vista Cruiser and a 71 Ford LTD that was, I think, 3 inches longer than an
aircraft carrier.

Voyager

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Voyager wrote:
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>>> Minivans did not exist when my kids were growing up so I was spared
>>> that situation.
>> Wow, you must be old! :-)
>
> My kids are 41 and 39. Vans just came into existance in the early '60s with
> the Ford Econoline and a Chevy version. Most were used as utility vehicles,
> not so much for passengers. The passenger versions were usually big
> families or commuter vans more than the main family ride.
>
> Along the way, I did have a couple of station wagons though. A '68 Olds
> Vista Cruiser and a 71 Ford LTD that was, I think, 3 inches longer than an
> aircraft carrier.

OK, so you had the minivan of its day! My uncle had a large GM wagon, I
believe either an Olds or a Buick and it was far larger than my
minivans. However, I think the minivans had more useful space inside
and got far better fuel economy.

It appears now that the "cross overs" are putting the vans out of
business so I don't expect to see the Entourage ever return. That is
too bad as it looked like a decent vehicle and I was hoping to try
something other than Chrysler for my last minivan. However, nothing
else is on my short list. I loath all things Honda and Toyota and that
pretty well narrows the choice.

Eric G.

Voyager <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote in
news:AXJZm.119915$gg6.84811@newsfe25.iad:


> It appears now that the "cross overs" are putting the vans out of
> business so I don't expect to see the Entourage ever return. That is
> too bad as it looked like a decent vehicle and I was hoping to try
> something other than Chrysler for my last minivan. However, nothing
> else is on my short list. I loath all things Honda and Toyota and
> that pretty well narrows the choice.
>

If you want to buy a used Entourage, let me know. We have about 50K on
ours. It has been maticulously maintained and has no problems, but my wfie
is/was the daily driver. That being said, it has tons of dents, dings and
other abbrasions. I'd tell you why we are getting rid of it, but it's a
long story and has nothing to do with the vehicle itself. We love it.

Eric

J.L.Hemmer

On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 23:50:35 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net>
wrote:


>
>Along the way, I did have a couple of station wagons though. A '68 Olds
>Vista Cruiser and a 71 Ford LTD that was, I think, 3 inches longer than an
>aircraft carrier.
>

Ed,

My first new car was a '72 LTD. 400 cu in engine....and, as you said,
bigger than an aircraft carrier!!!