Beebo

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:31:39 -0400, "hyundaitech"
<howitsac@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Since this is a 1995, it doesn't have obdII misfire monitoring. The
>computer won't detect an ignition problem unliss it's on the primary side.
> The timing is not adjustable and won't remain steady because the computer
>is constantly adjusting it.
>
>The description sounds exactly like an ignition misfire. I'd be checking
>the coil, wires, plugs. Check the plugs and wires especially for a carbon
>track down the porcelain of the plug and inside the wire boot. Spray down
>the wires with water and see if there is any arcing. If you don't find
>anything abnormal above, you may be looking at a weak sparking coil.

Doh!

Thanks for setting me straight!

I have a 96 Accent and I'm going through similar problems, so I
thought I could help the guy out by going over the first phase of
troubleshooting I went through.

Now perhaps you could help with my problem?

1996 Accent
1.5l SOHC Alpha engine
126k miles

My check engine light is on with the following codes stored:
P1123
P0304
P0302

Car idles ok, but misfires and runs rough at normal driving speed.
Lots of jerking and kicking at times (like a bad tranny) . Not
consistently though. Same type of hesitation as the OP described.

I've replaced my plugs, plug wires, and ignition coil (even though the
coil resistance was within spec according to hmaservice.com, just in
case there was an intermittent problem with it).

Checked for vacuum leaks.

I've checked the resistance of my Throttle Position Sensor, between
terminal 2 & 3 and I get a reading of 1.9 kohms. Out of spec or within
tolerance?

I would assume if my MAF, TPS or other sensor had gone bad, I would
see a relevant trouble code stored as well, but I don't.

I'm completely stumped.

/pray
Please don't let it be my ECM....

Beebo

Sudip Bhattacharjee

Can you tell me what can cause a jerking action during drive? I have
Accent GL, 2001, 37,700 miles. I get no warning lights. I get a slow start
when i start after a long idle engine, e.g. in morning. I feels like it
does not move, something is holding it behind. Again I get no warning
lights. It becomes easy in few minutes when engine gets hot. But jerking
actions during drive remains. Whats the problem?

Sudip



On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, hyundaitech wrote:

> There are several ecm reflashes for this condition on a 2001 Accent. You
> may wish to take the vehicle to the dealer for them to check. It may not
> have the latest update.
>

hyundaitech

P0302 and P0304 represent misfires on cylinders 2 and 4, respectively.
P1123 is a rich fuel trim code. So far, you've hit on all the likely
points that would cause misfire and dump fuel into exhaust. I'd tend to
rule out TPS, MAF and such because they would affect all cylinders
equally.

Does this engine have an egr? I can't remember. I've seen egr valves
stuck open causing misfire codes. Apparently the egr passages are such
that it adds exhaust to some cylinders more than others.

If you're satisfied everything above is ok, I'd recommend checking
compression and/or switching the #2 and #4 injectors with the #1 and #3
injectors. If you clear the codes and the lamp returns with P0301 and
P0303, then you know it was the injectors. You can try similar strategies
with the plugs and wires (if they reach) if you are not sure of their
quality. I will say that some brands of aftermarket plugs have been
especially troublesome and nearly all aftermarket wires have been junk
based on what I have seen.

Beebo

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:28:43 -0400, "hyundaitech"
<howitsac@hotmail.com> wrote:

>P0302 and P0304 represent misfires on cylinders 2 and 4, respectively.
>P1123 is a rich fuel trim code. So far, you've hit on all the likely
>points that would cause misfire and dump fuel into exhaust. I'd tend to
>rule out TPS, MAF and such because they would affect all cylinders
>equally.
>
>Does this engine have an egr? I can't remember. I've seen egr valves
>stuck open causing misfire codes. Apparently the egr passages are such
>that it adds exhaust to some cylinders more than others.
>
>If you're satisfied everything above is ok, I'd recommend checking
>compression and/or switching the #2 and #4 injectors with the #1 and #3
>injectors. If you clear the codes and the lamp returns with P0301 and
>P0303, then you know it was the injectors. You can try similar strategies
>with the plugs and wires (if they reach) if you are not sure of their
>quality. I will say that some brands of aftermarket plugs have been
>especially troublesome and nearly all aftermarket wires have been junk
>based on what I have seen.

Nope, no EGR valve...

Switched the injectors....same codes as before.

And replaced the wires with OEM wires from the dealership today.
Plus were NGK plugs..

While I was at the dealership, I had them pull the codes and run a bit
of troubleshooting for me.

They came up with the same responses you did.

Not the TPS, MAF or the ignition coil.

I may have left out a large chunk of relevant information that may
help...

The tech noticed my car is burning oil. I've had the compression
tested and the previous mechanic said that the results indicated my
oil rings were most likely fine, but I most likely need a valve job as
oil was leaking into the combustion chamber.

Pulling my plugs, we noticed they're fouling out.

His theory:

The plugs are fouling out and causing the non-burned fuel/air mixture
to be dumped. When this mixture hits the O2 sensor, it triggers the
P1123 too rich code. The ECM tries to compensate by adjusting the
timing to get a more efficient burn, which explains the timing jumping
around so much.

So, fix the oil leak and fix the problem?

Or not plausible?

I'm going to take the care into either another shop, or back to the
dealership to have the compression rechecked.

Any situation that you can think of in which the compression checks
out fine but it may still be the oil rings?

$300 for a valve job I can stomach.

$1500 for a rebuild, I dunno about.

Car just isn't worth that much.

(*** On a side note, the dealership didn't even charge me for the
30-45 min the tech spent on looking at the car! I was impressed as I
was ready to fork over the $70 just so I'd know from a reliable source
what the !$#@ my problem was!)

hyundaitech

Sounds like they've done a good job. Chances are, if you fix the oil leak,
you also fix everything else. Also sounds like you have a major problem.
You're either looking at a valve stem seal issue or a ring issue. If you
have no blue smoke present on cold starts or after idling for a
significant period of time, you're likely looking at a lower end issue.
It sounds to me like unless this car is in exceptional shape, the repairs
will be too much for a 1996 Accent. Then again, I work in the high rent
district. The prices you listed seem very low to me.

Beebo

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:37:18 -0400, "hyundaitech"
<howitsac@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Sounds like they've done a good job. Chances are, if you fix the oil leak,
>you also fix everything else. Also sounds like you have a major problem.
>You're either looking at a valve stem seal issue or a ring issue. If you
>have no blue smoke present on cold starts or after idling for a
>significant period of time, you're likely looking at a lower end issue.
>It sounds to me like unless this car is in exceptional shape, the repairs
>will be too much for a 1996 Accent. Then again, I work in the high rent
>district. The prices you listed seem very low to me.

Nah, no smoke on cold starts...just after idling for a period of time.

Nice, puffy, gray-blue smoke.

After driving for a few minutes, the smoke clears up.

Problem seems to be worse if I idle with the AC on.

Meh...its in really good shape. And she's been so dependable, I feel a
measure of loyalty to her Besides, after going through everything
else with a fine tooth comb, I know this car inside out! Already
replaced the tranny about 20k miles ago, and the new one only had 17k
on it.

I think I'll try to fix this one to the point it will last me at least
a year or so, then I'll invest in a new Accent.

Law school is expensive after all.

hyundaitech

It may be worth replacing the valve stem seals just to see if that fixes
it. The blue smoke during prolonged idling suggests a valve seal problem.
At closed throttle, intake vacuum is high and serves to suck the oil down
the valve guides if the seals are hardened and loose.

This repair can be done without removing the head from the vehicle.
Remove the valve cover, rocker arm and shaft assemblies, and spark plugs.
Fill a cylinder with compressed air to hold up the valves, remove the
springs and replace the seals on each valve one at a time. You will need
a tool to compress the valve springs. And don't forget to move the air to
the next cylinder when it's time.

The downside of this is that the head hasn't been removed for inspection
of the cylinder walls, valves, guides, etc.

Beebo

>It may be worth replacing the valve stem seals just to see if that fixes
>it. The blue smoke during prolonged idling suggests a valve seal problem.
> At closed throttle, intake vacuum is high and serves to suck the oil down
>the valve guides if the seals are hardened and loose.
>
>This repair can be done without removing the head from the vehicle.
>Remove the valve cover, rocker arm and shaft assemblies, and spark plugs.
>Fill a cylinder with compressed air to hold up the valves, remove the
>springs and replace the seals on each valve one at a time. You will need
>a tool to compress the valve springs. And don't forget to move the air to
>the next cylinder when it's time.
>
>The downside of this is that the head hasn't been removed for inspection
>of the cylinder walls, valves, guides, etc.

One other question...

And I forgot to mention this to the tech at the dealership, so I'm
hoping you can shed some light on this for me.

The one symptom I left out of everything else we discussed here is
that no matter how rough its running, if I just barely give it gas,
then accelerate nice and slow, I usually have no problems.

Its only when I give it a normal size amount of throttle, or floor it
that I get the aforementioned symptoms.

If I just ease onto the throttle, or feather it a bit while I'm
driving, the stalling/missing type behavior seems to go away.

Any thoughts?

hyundaitech

It sounds consistent with what they've found. An ignition misfire (which
this is, for all intensive purposes, since it's preventing proper spark)
tends to become worse under load.

Sudip Bhattacharjee

I have Accent GL, 2001, 4 cyliner, 37,792 miles in it. I previously posted
my problem but did not get any response, probably got lost among other
mail. I am re-stating my problem:

Sometimes I get a feeling that a lot of gas is rushing into when I am not
pushing much - I am just giving a little push and I feel gas running
into cylinder. Then sometimes when I am starting from stopped position, I
am pressing my pedal more but very little power in engine, making
tremendous noise and then slowly starts and gets a big push from nowhere,
almost feeling someone kicked me from behind and become stable slowly.
When these happen I can feel a distinct jerk during driving, making a
distinct noise during transmission change. I also feel the jerk when I
move from drive to reverse position and so forth. Few days back I checked
my gas and I found during this event I spent almost a gallon of gas for 2
miles. So overall, I am geting a very rough ride, poor engine power, and
spending a lot of gas.

And out of blue, suddenly one day everything becomes so normal, riding so
smoothly, no noise, no jerk, perfect.

Whats happening? Whats the reason of this jerk and loss of engine power or
sudden gain in power from very little push on gas pedal? I am going to
dealer shop, but I am automobile ignorant, so I dont know what to look
for.

I changed oil and serviced last month and they said everything alright.

Any help is very much appreciated.

Sudip

Art

It sounds (at least partialy) transmission related. My wife's accent
did that rough shift from reverse to drive. It is kinda like a jerk
or a thump when the car finally decides to go. Also a similar
sensation from the first few stop signs in the morning. Step on the
gas and get nothing.. press harder... wham your'e off with a jolt.

Turned out to be a simple fix. They adjusted or reprogramed the
transmission and replaced the pulse <something> generator. In and
out in an hour with no similar problems since.

fumunda cheeze

Hi, tech, any way I can turn the inst lights on the XG350 so I can see the
odometer in the daytime. It is unreadable in the sunlight,

Thanks in advance.

Gary