Matt Whiting

Monday I made my first appointment at the local Hyundai dealer (BTW
where also I bought my Sonata) for some maintenance work that the
owner's manual suggests strongly is required to maintain my warranty.
Specifically, replacement of the fuel filter, fuel tank air filter and
canister which, if memory serves were required replacement items at 30K,
37.5K and 45K miles, respectively. My car is just about to hit 40K so I
figured this was a good time to hit all three.

The dealer asked me on Monday what I wanted done and I gave them the
three items listed above. I show up this morning and the service
manager says "We've never replaced the fuel tank air filter or canister
before and I don't think we even have those pars." So, he goes off to
the parts department and not only don't they have the parts, the parts
man can't even find a number for the fuel tank air filter! I had found
it in my shop manual so I ask to see is diagram and I quickly point it
out for him. The service manager says that they never replace any of
these parts unless the check engine light comes on and also they tell me
that the canister is $245.

I told them I was doing this only because the manual lists them as "R"
(replace) items rather than "I" (inspect and replace only if necessary).
I said I didn't see a need to replace them either, but didn't want to
jeopardize my warranty. The service manager assured me that warranty
would be unaffected if I didn't do this maintenance, so I said "Sounds
good to me" and left.

I'm not sure what amazed me more, the fact that the dealer sets up an
appointment and doesn't even check to see if they have the requisite
parts, or the fact that the service manager and parts manager didn't
even know about one of these parts!!

Strange, but it did save me a pile of change!

Matt

Edwin Pawlowski

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>
> I'm not sure what amazed me more, the fact that the dealer sets up an
> appointment and doesn't even check to see if they have the requisite
> parts, or the fact that the service manager and parts manager didn't even
> know about one of these parts!!
>
> Strange, but it did save me a pile of change!
>
> Matt

Well I'm not going to fret over those parts either.

As for scheduling and not checking parts availability. I've never been
asked about what parts are needed or the model, vin when making an
appointment. Seems like a lot of extra work for the dealer. How many
customers know in advance what part they want replaced? How many dealers
actually know what parts will need replacing when a customer says "it makes
a funny noise"?

631grant

I posted the exact same thing happening to me about a year ago! The dealer
I went to also never stocked the parts, never replaced them on any cars!
Only one person even knew where the fuel tank breather filter was located!
I never replaced them yet. I wouldn't trust my local Hyundai dealer to even
change my oil! Sorry Hyundaitech. ( My Kia dealer changes my oil only
because it came with the deal although it did with the Sonata also but
Hyundai wants to charge me $16 or $18 for my free oil change while I've
never paid a dime for oil changes on my 03 Sedona. The only problem there
was that the idiot must put the drain plug in with an impact wrench. I had
to hurry up and change the oil before a trip earlier this year and it took
130 pound feet of torque to break the drain plug loose! It is supposed to
be tightened to 30 lb ft with a new washer. Sooner or later they are going
to be buying me a new oil pan.


"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:a5DAk.13130$QA5.5036@fe107.usenetserver.com.. .
>
> Monday I made my first appointment at the local Hyundai dealer (BTW where
> also I bought my Sonata) for some maintenance work that the owner's manual
> suggests strongly is required to maintain my warranty. Specifically,
> replacement of the fuel filter, fuel tank air filter and canister which,
> if memory serves were required replacement items at 30K, 37.5K and 45K
> miles, respectively. My car is just about to hit 40K so I figured this
> was a good time to hit all three.
>
> The dealer asked me on Monday what I wanted done and I gave them the three
> items listed above. I show up this morning and the service manager says
> "We've never replaced the fuel tank air filter or canister before and I
> don't think we even have those pars." So, he goes off to the parts
> department and not only don't they have the parts, the parts man can't
> even find a number for the fuel tank air filter! I had found it in my
> shop manual so I ask to see is diagram and I quickly point it out for him.
> The service manager says that they never replace any of these parts unless
> the check engine light comes on and also they tell me that the canister is
> $245.
>
> I told them I was doing this only because the manual lists them as "R"
> (replace) items rather than "I" (inspect and replace only if necessary). I
> said I didn't see a need to replace them either, but didn't want to
> jeopardize my warranty. The service manager assured me that warranty
> would be unaffected if I didn't do this maintenance, so I said "Sounds
> good to me" and left.
>
> I'm not sure what amazed me more, the fact that the dealer sets up an
> appointment and doesn't even check to see if they have the requisite
> parts, or the fact that the service manager and parts manager didn't even
> know about one of these parts!!
>
> Strange, but it did save me a pile of change!
>
> Matt

Matt Whiting

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>> I'm not sure what amazed me more, the fact that the dealer sets up an
>> appointment and doesn't even check to see if they have the requisite
>> parts, or the fact that the service manager and parts manager didn't even
>> know about one of these parts!!
>>
>> Strange, but it did save me a pile of change!
>>
>> Matt
>
> Well I'm not going to fret over those parts either.
>
> As for scheduling and not checking parts availability. I've never been
> asked about what parts are needed or the model, vin when making an
> appointment. Seems like a lot of extra work for the dealer. How many
> customers know in advance what part they want replaced? How many dealers
> actually know what parts will need replacing when a customer says "it makes
> a funny noise"?

Yes, I understand if the car is coming in for repair of some unknown
defect. However, in my case the car was going in for very specific
maintenance that is listed in the owner's manual! To not have checked
to see if they had the parts in stock before I arrived is simply
incompetence, in my opinion.

That is like you going into surgery and after they have you in the
operating room they discover they have no gauze and no sutures!

Matt

Richard Dreyfuss

Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote in
news:a5DAk.13130$QA5.5036@fe107.usenetserver.com:

<snip>

> I told them I was doing this only because the manual lists them as
> "R" (replace) items rather than "I" (inspect and replace only if
> necessary).
> I said I didn't see a need to replace them either, but didn't want
> to
> jeopardize my warranty. The service manager assured me that
> warranty would be unaffected if I didn't do this maintenance, so I
> said "Sounds good to me" and left.

I was going to replace the fuel filter in my '01 elantra, and the parts
guy at the dealer was amazed that anyone would bother. Something like
"It's never a problem, and it's hard to get to, so don't worry about
it". I actually put it off for a while, but when I did do it I got a
different guy who didn't say a thing when I asked for the part.

That's my story.

Ben

Edwin Pawlowski

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> That is like you going into surgery and after they have you in the
> operating room they discover they have no gauze and no sutures!
>
> Matt

Only a fool would go into surgery without a roll of duct tape by his side.

Matt Whiting

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>> That is like you going into surgery and after they have you in the
>> operating room they discover they have no gauze and no sutures!
>>
>> Matt
>
> Only a fool would go into surgery without a roll of duct tape by his side.
>
>

And a can of WD40.

hyundaitech

Unfortunately, if dealers routinely managed their stock with this method,
they'd have items stuck on their shelves they couldn't sell. Too many
people never show up for their appointments, and most have no idea what
they'll need. I have, though, seen exceptions made for certain customers
on request. Usually, a well-managed dealer parts department will have
supply on hand for normal maintenance requests.

As for the fuel filter, I think your owner's manual is wrong. Near as I
can tell, it's a throwback from the inline fuel filters. Newer cars with
the same type filter have maintenance intervals around 100k if I recall
correctly. Worst case scenario, your fuel pressure becomes low and you
need to pay for a fuel filter then. Personally, I don't think it'll
happen. In 15 years in the automotive industry (actually, it's exactly 15
years today), I've only once seen a car have poor performance due to a fuel
filter. And in that case, the problem was that the aftermarket fuel filter
had too small a hole and didn't allow enough fuel through.

I think the fuel tank air filter (canister filter) is a similar deal.
Probably in the maintenance chart to underscore the fact that if there's a
problem it's the owner's responsibility. I've seen a few of these get
restricted enough to turn on a check engine lamp (vacuum builds up in the
tank) or make refueling difficult, but that's about the limit of the
damage. At that point, you can pay for replacement. I've never seen this
filter referred to in any of the service literature (service manual, parts
catalog) as a tank filter, so that's where the confusion probably started.
In fact, I'm presuming it's the canister filter. I've never seen anything
official stating that the canister filter and the fuel tank air filter are
in fact the same thing.

As for the charcoal canister, I thought the days of listing them on
maintenance charts for replacement went out with the eighties.

I've never heard of a canister being denied warranty because the vehicle
was over 2 years/30k, so I cannot imagine any warranty issue there. On
the other items, since they're filters, I'd say they're not covered beyond
the 1 year/12k warranty, but problem rates are low enough as to make 30k
replacement overkill. Perhaps replace the canister filter if you drive in
dusty areas. Otherwise, I'm with the dealer. Skip it.

--
Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html

Matt Whiting

hyundaitech wrote:
> Unfortunately, if dealers routinely managed their stock with this method,
> they'd have items stuck on their shelves they couldn't sell. Too many
> people never show up for their appointments, and most have no idea what
> they'll need. I have, though, seen exceptions made for certain customers
> on request. Usually, a well-managed dealer parts department will have
> supply on hand for normal maintenance requests.
>
> As for the fuel filter, I think your owner's manual is wrong. Near as I
> can tell, it's a throwback from the inline fuel filters. Newer cars with
> the same type filter have maintenance intervals around 100k if I recall
> correctly. Worst case scenario, your fuel pressure becomes low and you
> need to pay for a fuel filter then. Personally, I don't think it'll
> happen. In 15 years in the automotive industry (actually, it's exactly 15
> years today), I've only once seen a car have poor performance due to a fuel
> filter. And in that case, the problem was that the aftermarket fuel filter
> had too small a hole and didn't allow enough fuel through.
>
> I think the fuel tank air filter (canister filter) is a similar deal.
> Probably in the maintenance chart to underscore the fact that if there's a
> problem it's the owner's responsibility. I've seen a few of these get
> restricted enough to turn on a check engine lamp (vacuum builds up in the
> tank) or make refueling difficult, but that's about the limit of the
> damage. At that point, you can pay for replacement. I've never seen this
> filter referred to in any of the service literature (service manual, parts
> catalog) as a tank filter, so that's where the confusion probably started.
> In fact, I'm presuming it's the canister filter. I've never seen anything
> official stating that the canister filter and the fuel tank air filter are
> in fact the same thing.
>
> As for the charcoal canister, I thought the days of listing them on
> maintenance charts for replacement went out with the eighties.
>
> I've never heard of a canister being denied warranty because the vehicle
> was over 2 years/30k, so I cannot imagine any warranty issue there. On
> the other items, since they're filters, I'd say they're not covered beyond
> the 1 year/12k warranty, but problem rates are low enough as to make 30k
> replacement overkill. Perhaps replace the canister filter if you drive in
> dusty areas. Otherwise, I'm with the dealer. Skip it.

I agree with you and the dealer, but why couldn't they have told me that
when I made the appointment and SPECIFICALLY said I wanted these three
items serviced per the Sonata owner's manual maintenance chart?
Fortunately, I only missed 30 minutes of work and am salaried so I just
work a little later at the end of the day, but in other cases this could
have been a significant inconvenience for no gain at all.

I got a call from Hyundai (well, actually sounded like someone in India)
asking about my recent visit. I rated the dealer a 7 and told the
caller why. I'm not sure it makes any difference, but maybe it will get
them to tighten up their system a little. I wish Hyundai would post a
maintenance schedule that was actually meaningful like those in my Chevy
and Chrysler manuals. My Chevy calls for 100K fuel filter replacement
and my Chrysler doesn't even list the fuel filter as a maintenance item!

I was surprised to find that my Sonata has twice as many scheduled
maintenance items as my Chrysler minivan. If I followed the Sonata
schedule, I would spend more than 3 times as much on maintenance for my
Sonata as for my Chevy truck and Dodge Grand Caravan. I'm glad to see
that Hyundai doesn't really care if you follow their schedule to the
letter as that would be very costly given the price of the parts, the
canister in particular!

Matt

hyundaitech

The reason they didn't tell you in advance is that about 50% of service
advisors know nearly nothing about automobile service. If you called my
employer, it'd be hit or miss whether you got someone who knew enough to
check on the actual applicability of the items beforehand.

Either that, or they thought they were going to switch you to their
probably overinflated 30k service.

--
Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html

631grant

Wow, you hit my MAIN gripe about dealerships right on the head,
hyundaitech!!! Why do they hire the most ignorant (car wise) people for the
service advisor position when he/she should be the most knowledgeable???? I
absolutely hate talking to them because it's like talking to the wall. I
pride myself on knowing cars after 50 years of shade tree work and when I go
in explaining all the symptoms and the tests I've done, I expect them to
take that into account. All they do is write down some stupid non-technical
explanation of what the car is doing. So damn frustrating! I've gone as
far as insisting that I talk to the mechanic who will be working on it.


"hyundaitech" <notpublic@not.public.com> wrote in message
news:7308a6c01c2999f05fe3977bb8af807b@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> The reason they didn't tell you in advance is that about 50% of service
> advisors know nearly nothing about automobile service. If you called my
> employer, it'd be hit or miss whether you got someone who knew enough to
> check on the actual applicability of the items beforehand.
>
> Either that, or they thought they were going to switch you to their
> probably overinflated 30k service.
>
> --
> Message posted using
> http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
> More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html
>

Bob M

631grant wrote:

> Wow, you hit my MAIN gripe about dealerships right on the head,
> hyundaitech!!! Why do they hire the most ignorant (car wise) people for
> the
> service advisor position when he/she should be the most knowledgeable????
> I
> absolutely hate talking to them because it's like talking to the wall. I
> pride myself on knowing cars after 50 years of shade tree work and when I
> go in explaining all the symptoms and the tests I've done, I expect them
> to
> take that into account. All they do is write down some stupid
> non-technical
> explanation of what the car is doing. So damn frustrating! I've gone as
> far as insisting that I talk to the mechanic who will be working on it.

I believe that the primary reason is the pay rate they are willing to offer
for this position. Anyone with sufficient knowledge, either by schooling
or experience, would require considerably more and close to minimum.

Just my $.02 USD

Matt Whiting

hyundaitech wrote:
> The reason they didn't tell you in advance is that about 50% of service
> advisors know nearly nothing about automobile service. If you called my
> employer, it'd be hit or miss whether you got someone who knew enough to
> check on the actual applicability of the items beforehand.
>
> Either that, or they thought they were going to switch you to their
> probably overinflated 30k service.
>
> --
> Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
> More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html
>

Does the result from the Hyundai phone survey mean anything? I rated
them a 7 on this experience, but I have no idea if that even matters.
I'd have rated them lower, but I really did appreciate them being honest
with me about not needing to DO the maintenance listed in the manual. I
just wish they had told me that before I took time off work unnecessarily.

Matt

631grant

Of course, you're right but why would they NOT put more money toward
gathering all the facts and formulating at least a preliminary plan of
attack instead of just throwing a nonsensical description of what might be
wrong at the poor mechanic and let him try to figure out what the symptoms
are and then the solution? Wow, that was a 'lawyer' sentence, wasn't it?


"Bob M" <r.mariotti@fdcx.net> wrote in message
news:gbeb93$3pm$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> 631grant wrote:
>
>> Wow, you hit my MAIN gripe about dealerships right on the head,
>> hyundaitech!!! Why do they hire the most ignorant (car wise) people for
>> the
>> service advisor position when he/she should be the most knowledgeable????
>> I
>> absolutely hate talking to them because it's like talking to the wall. I
>> pride myself on knowing cars after 50 years of shade tree work and when I
>> go in explaining all the symptoms and the tests I've done, I expect them
>> to
>> take that into account. All they do is write down some stupid
>> non-technical
>> explanation of what the car is doing. So damn frustrating! I've gone as
>> far as insisting that I talk to the mechanic who will be working on it.
>
> I believe that the primary reason is the pay rate they are willing to
> offer
> for this position. Anyone with sufficient knowledge, either by schooling
> or experience, would require considerably more and close to minimum.
>
> Just my $.02 USD

631grant

Your survey is still probably sitting on a rickshaw seat in New Delhi or
Manila..................


"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:bzzCk.4364$397.4235@fe99.usenetserver.com...
> hyundaitech wrote:
>> The reason they didn't tell you in advance is that about 50% of service
>> advisors know nearly nothing about automobile service. If you called my
>> employer, it'd be hit or miss whether you got someone who knew enough to
>> check on the actual applicability of the items beforehand. Either that,
>> or they thought they were going to switch you to their
>> probably overinflated 30k service.
>>
>> --
>> Message posted using
>> http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
>> More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html
>>
>
> Does the result from the Hyundai phone survey mean anything? I rated them
> a 7 on this experience, but I have no idea if that even matters. I'd have
> rated them lower, but I really did appreciate them being honest with me
> about not needing to DO the maintenance listed in the manual. I just wish
> they had told me that before I took time off work unnecessarily.
>
> Matt