Bill

The tale so far - e-mail sent to service manager:

Xxxxx,

My wife brought our 2007 entourage in for AC service on 7/8/09 and
told the service person that the air conditioning was "not cold" ref:
service ticket XXXxXXXX

The service ticket states: "low on freon - charge and evac a.c.
system"

I did extensive investigation on the cause of sudden loss of cold air
and was told to check fuses under the hood. The night before her
appointment, I did check and found the 7.5 amp compressor fuse was
blown. I have been informed that the most likely cause of this
failure is with the compressor clutch field coil having insufficient
resistance. (TSB 07-97-003). I saw no note of a resistance check
being performed or of the fuse being replaced.

I checked after the service and found that the 7.5 amp fuse has been
replaced with a 10 amp fuse. I am not an auto mechanic nor an
electrical engineer, but I know that it is not a good practice to fix
an electrical problem with a larger fuse. My concern is that the
service did not fix the problem, only masked it and may indeed have
exacerbated the problem.

I am extremely concerned that this could lead to further problems
which could cost us a fairly large sum of money after the warantee
expires.

I would appreciate hearing from you regarding this matter. I can be
reached during the day at XXX-XXXX or in the evening at XXX-XXXX.

Thanks in advance,
XXX

hyundaitech

On Jul 14, 8:42 pm, Bill <carver-rem...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> I checked after the service and found that the 7.5 amp fuse has been
> replaced with a 10 amp fuse. I am not an auto mechanic nor an
> electrical engineer, but I know that it is not a good practice to fix
> an electrical problem with a larger fuse. My concern is that the
> service did not fix the problem, only masked it and may indeed have
> exacerbated the problem.

This is a safety issue. If the circuit were designed to accomodate
10A, it would have a 10A fuse to begin with.

I suspect one of or a combination of the following is the reason for
the 10A fuse being installed:

-- dealer had no 7.5A fuses in stock
-- technician did not know about the TSB and didn't bother to do any
research
-- technician did not wish to replace the compressor clutch coil for
the labor hours Hyundai will pay for this repair
-- technician initially improperly diagnosed vehicle as a low
refrigerant charge, and then simply installed a fuse to make the
system operational.

Hopefully, you get a prompt, courteous, and apologetic resolution to
this issue.

Bill

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:51:20 -0700 (PDT), hyundaitech
<hyundaimech@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jul 14, 8:42 pm, Bill <carver-rem...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> I checked after the service and found that the 7.5 amp fuse has been
>> replaced with a 10 amp fuse. I am not an auto mechanic nor an
>> electrical engineer, but I know that it is not a good practice to fix
>> an electrical problem with a larger fuse. My concern is that the
>> service did not fix the problem, only masked it and may indeed have
>> exacerbated the problem.
>
>This is a safety issue. If the circuit were designed to accomodate
>10A, it would have a 10A fuse to begin with.
>
>I suspect one of or a combination of the following is the reason for
>the 10A fuse being installed:
>
>-- dealer had no 7.5A fuses in stock
>-- technician did not know about the TSB and didn't bother to do any
>research
>-- technician did not wish to replace the compressor clutch coil for
>the labor hours Hyundai will pay for this repair
>-- technician initially improperly diagnosed vehicle as a low
>refrigerant charge, and then simply installed a fuse to make the
>system operational.
>
>Hopefully, you get a prompt, courteous, and apologetic resolution to
>this issue.

Thanks much for the follow up and all of the helpful advice to date
(sorry about the mis-spelling, it was getting late and I was in a
hurry). I'll try to post when I have a final resolution.

Bill

Bill G.

I've been reading this thread and telling Bill all the good advise. My
question to you Bill (I did a/c and refrigeration for 35 years) did you or
your wife notice any oil on the ground when your wife found that there was
no cooling air coming out of the vents. You see, I ask this question because
in my career, I never found a unit dead from loss of Freon that suddenly. If
there is no oil on the ground it is electrical, period. The tech who trouble
shot your a/c is a disgrace to all of us who toil everyday in the field. The
ten amp. fuse is another sign of not giving a damn to further find out the
real problem. It is a shame when you put a larger fuse and probably more (
gas) than the system holds.

I believe that you should get in touch with the area manager (of Hyundai),
tell him what the problem is (no a/c) and the dealership is not doing
anything (really) about to fixing this problem. If he BS's you tell him that
he left you no choice and you'll contact the local new station and see if
they can help (area manager's don't like any publicity that ruins the auto
makers name, bad for business, and in today's financial climate, I'm sure
they do not need negative words said about them.

Good luck and stick to your guns.

Bill







"Bill" <carver-rem-33@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
newsans5557eqjr3nal5gtuhv2ht4e4u6od3q@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:51:20 -0700 (PDT), hyundaitech
> <hyundaimech@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jul 14, 8:42 pm, Bill <carver-rem...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>> I checked after the service and found that the 7.5 amp fuse has been
>>> replaced with a 10 amp fuse. I am not an auto mechanic nor an
>>> electrical engineer, but I know that it is not a good practice to fix
>>> an electrical problem with a larger fuse. My concern is that the
>>> service did not fix the problem, only masked it and may indeed have
>>> exacerbated the problem.
>>
>>This is a safety issue. If the circuit were designed to accomodate
>>10A, it would have a 10A fuse to begin with.
>>
>>I suspect one of or a combination of the following is the reason for
>>the 10A fuse being installed:
>>
>>-- dealer had no 7.5A fuses in stock
>>-- technician did not know about the TSB and didn't bother to do any
>>research
>>-- technician did not wish to replace the compressor clutch coil for
>>the labor hours Hyundai will pay for this repair
>>-- technician initially improperly diagnosed vehicle as a low
>>refrigerant charge, and then simply installed a fuse to make the
>>system operational.
>>
>>Hopefully, you get a prompt, courteous, and apologetic resolution to
>>this issue.
>
> Thanks much for the follow up and all of the helpful advice to date
> (sorry about the mis-spelling, it was getting late and I was in a
> hurry). I'll try to post when I have a final resolution.
>
> Bill

Ed Pawlowski

"Bill G." <vasilios631@optimum.net> wrote in message
news:4a6bf9e3$0$10280$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> I've been reading this thread and telling Bill all the good advise. My
> question to you Bill (I did a/c and refrigeration for 35 years) did you or
> your wife notice any oil on the ground when your wife found that there
> was no cooling air coming out of the vents. You see, I ask this question
> because in my career, I never found a unit dead from loss of Freon that
> suddenly. If there is no oil on the ground it is electrical, period.

I'm glad you did not work on my car after the AC died three times. No oil
any place, and it was not electrical. OTOH, maybe you did work on it and
that is why it took four tries to get it right only after I told the shop
where to find the leak.

Bill G.

Ed, Ed, Ed,

Evidently you are an experienced man. Why did you wait until the 4TH time to
show them where the leak was? You should have spoken up and said something,
but you didn't, why? Where you to nervous (timid) to speak up?

Where did that rascally oil go to? Maybe at the source of the leak?

I really feel bad for "Monday morning quarterbacks", to little too late. Oh,
BTW if I did the work on your vehicle, the trouble shooting would have found
the problem and remedied it the first time. I think you should share your
knowledge with someone that needs it or cares for it.

You have a goodnight now, ya' hear.

All my best,

Bill




"Ed Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news:HYWdnZn4o6r85fHXnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>
> "Bill G." <vasilios631@optimum.net> wrote in message
> news:4a6bf9e3$0$10280$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>> I've been reading this thread and telling Bill all the good advise. My
>> question to you Bill (I did a/c and refrigeration for 35 years) did you
>> or your wife notice any oil on the ground when your wife found that
>> there was no cooling air coming out of the vents. You see, I ask this
>> question because in my career, I never found a unit dead from loss of
>> Freon that suddenly. If there is no oil on the ground it is electrical,
>> period.
>
> I'm glad you did not work on my car after the AC died three times. No oil
> any place, and it was not electrical. OTOH, maybe you did work on it and
> that is why it took four tries to get it right only after I told the shop
> where to find the leak.
>

Ed Pawlowski

"Bill G." <vasilios631@optimum.net> wrote in message
news:4a6e751b$0$10316$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> Ed, Ed, Ed,
>
> Evidently you are an experienced man. Why did you wait until the 4TH time
> to show them where the leak was? You should have spoken up and said
> something, but you didn't, why? Where you to nervous (timid) to speak up?
>
> Where did that rascally oil go to? Maybe at the source of the leak?


It was under warranty and it was the dealer's reponsibity to find and fix
it. I was assured they did. First charge h eld a month, n ext two weeks,
the next did not make it our of their lot. We revieed what they did and
they assured me everything was checked. I asked about the evaporatir coil.
The reply was "they never go bad". You can guess the rest. I can assure
you, I've never been too timid to speak up since about third grade.


>
> I really feel bad for "Monday morning quarterbacks", to little too late.
> Oh, BTW if I did the work on your vehicle, the trouble shooting would have
> found the problem and remedied it the first time. I think you should
> share your knowledge with someone that needs it or cares for it.

Well good for you. There was no oil visible.

Bill

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:42:42 -0400, Bill <carver-rem-33@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>The tale so far - e-mail sent to service manager:
>
>Xxxxx,
>
>My wife brought our 2007 entourage in for AC service on 7/8/09 and
>told the service person that the air conditioning was "not cold" ref:
>service ticket XXXxXXXX
>
>The service ticket states: "low on freon - charge and evac a.c.
>system"
>
>I did extensive investigation on the cause of sudden loss of cold air
>and was told to check fuses under the hood. The night before her
>appointment, I did check and found the 7.5 amp compressor fuse was
>blown. I have been informed that the most likely cause of this
>failure is with the compressor clutch field coil having insufficient
>resistance. (TSB 07-97-003). I saw no note of a resistance check
>being performed or of the fuse being replaced.
>
>I checked after the service and found that the 7.5 amp fuse has been
>replaced with a 10 amp fuse. I am not an auto mechanic nor an
>electrical engineer, but I know that it is not a good practice to fix
>an electrical problem with a larger fuse. My concern is that the
>service did not fix the problem, only masked it and may indeed have
>exacerbated the problem.
>
>I am extremely concerned that this could lead to further problems
>which could cost us a fairly large sum of money after the warantee
>expires.
>
>I would appreciate hearing from you regarding this matter. I can be
>reached during the day at XXX-XXXX or in the evening at XXX-XXXX.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>XXX

As a follow up to the original post. On the third visit to the
dealer, the problem was (apparently) diagnosed as a bad field coil. I
assume this, because the service ticket now states: "COIL-FIELD" "part
on special order". My wife is currently driving a loaner as the
Entourage now immediately blows 10 amp fuses.

I did not tell the service personnel what I thought the problem is (a)
because, as informed as I MAY be, I am not a service technician and
could be wrong, and (b) being qualified service technicians, the
service personnel should be able to properly diagnose a problem.

Hopefully, this issue will be laid to rest in the very near future.

Bill