"bobweb via CarKB.com" <u18437@uwe> wrote in message
news:5b8716e63f1ac@uwe...

>
> An update from my dealer is positive in that they decided to replace both
the
> engine block and heads as a complete "long block" unit instead of building
> the engine up in the shop as originally planned. So on the one hand I get
> basically a new engine, but on the other hand I've lost use of the car for
at
> least a month. Many people can't afford to be without a car for a month
while
> still paying for the insurance and depreciation etc costs of owning a car.
> They did not provide me with a rental or loaner car which is not provided
> under the normal warranty. We'll see how the reassembled car performs!
>

All sounds good *except* for that one month part. What are they doing,
rowing an engine over from Korea?

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

 

The last time I spoke with someone at length about pistons, it was
indicated to me that one company in Michigan makes nearly all the pistons
in the world. I cannot vouch for the veracity of the statement, but if
true, it would hardly be Hyundai's fault for choosing that particular
manufacturer.

 

The last time I spoke with someone at length about pistons, it was
indicated to me that one company in Michigan makes nearly all the pistons
in the world. I cannot vouch for the veracity of the statement, but if
true, it would hardly be Hyundai's fault for choosing that particular
manufacturer.

 

The last time I spoke with someone at length about pistons, it was
indicated to me that one company in Michigan makes nearly all the pistons
in the world. I cannot vouch for the veracity of the statement, but if
true, it would hardly be Hyundai's fault for choosing that particular
manufacturer.

 

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> news:SETFf.5947$lb.524202@news1.epix.net...
>
>>Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>>>newsdQFf.5940$lb.523432@news1.epix.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>True, if this was an issue with the piston design specifications that
>>>>Hyundai gave to the piston supplier. However, design issues tend to
>>>>affect a lot of parts, not just one in several thousand. If this was an
>>>>isolate problem, then it typically is a manufacturing defect rather than
>>>>a design error. Manufacturing defects are the responsibility of the
>>>>manufacturer of the piston.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Not when it (as a subassembly) goes into a final assembly. The final
>>>assembly is what is warranted. In this case it's Hyundai's problem if
>
> their
>
>>>supplier supplied a defective part. If they want to go back after the
>>>supplier, that's between them and the supplier, but the customer need
>
> only
>
>>>look to Hyundai.
>>>
>>
>>You are missing the original point entirely. The OP was concerned about
>>whether he should ever buy a Hyundai again because of a cracked piston.
>> My point was that the cracked piston wasn't Hyundai's fault. Sure,
>>they are the one's that have to make it right, which it sounds like
>>there were, but the point is that since pistons are made by a piston
>>supplier, this could equally likely happen to ANY car maker, not just
>>Hyundai. So deciding not to buy a Hyundai again because of this sort of
>>failure, would simply not be logical.
>>
>
>
> Sorry Matt - I had been following this thread but I got thrown by your
> closing sentence "Manufacturing defects are the responsibility of the
> manufacturer of the piston".
>

I meant "cause" in the sense of who created the defect, not necessarily
who was responsible to the car owner to get it fixed. No argument from
me that Hyundai owns the problem, but I wouldn't say they were the root
cause of the problem.

Matt

 

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> news:SETFf.5947$lb.524202@news1.epix.net...
>
>>Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>>>newsdQFf.5940$lb.523432@news1.epix.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>True, if this was an issue with the piston design specifications that
>>>>Hyundai gave to the piston supplier. However, design issues tend to
>>>>affect a lot of parts, not just one in several thousand. If this was an
>>>>isolate problem, then it typically is a manufacturing defect rather than
>>>>a design error. Manufacturing defects are the responsibility of the
>>>>manufacturer of the piston.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Not when it (as a subassembly) goes into a final assembly. The final
>>>assembly is what is warranted. In this case it's Hyundai's problem if
>
> their
>
>>>supplier supplied a defective part. If they want to go back after the
>>>supplier, that's between them and the supplier, but the customer need
>
> only
>
>>>look to Hyundai.
>>>
>>
>>You are missing the original point entirely. The OP was concerned about
>>whether he should ever buy a Hyundai again because of a cracked piston.
>> My point was that the cracked piston wasn't Hyundai's fault. Sure,
>>they are the one's that have to make it right, which it sounds like
>>there were, but the point is that since pistons are made by a piston
>>supplier, this could equally likely happen to ANY car maker, not just
>>Hyundai. So deciding not to buy a Hyundai again because of this sort of
>>failure, would simply not be logical.
>>
>
>
> Sorry Matt - I had been following this thread but I got thrown by your
> closing sentence "Manufacturing defects are the responsibility of the
> manufacturer of the piston".
>

I meant "cause" in the sense of who created the defect, not necessarily
who was responsible to the car owner to get it fixed. No argument from
me that Hyundai owns the problem, but I wouldn't say they were the root
cause of the problem.

Matt

 

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> news:SETFf.5947$lb.524202@news1.epix.net...
>
>>Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>>>newsdQFf.5940$lb.523432@news1.epix.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>True, if this was an issue with the piston design specifications that
>>>>Hyundai gave to the piston supplier. However, design issues tend to
>>>>affect a lot of parts, not just one in several thousand. If this was an
>>>>isolate problem, then it typically is a manufacturing defect rather than
>>>>a design error. Manufacturing defects are the responsibility of the
>>>>manufacturer of the piston.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Not when it (as a subassembly) goes into a final assembly. The final
>>>assembly is what is warranted. In this case it's Hyundai's problem if
>
> their
>
>>>supplier supplied a defective part. If they want to go back after the
>>>supplier, that's between them and the supplier, but the customer need
>
> only
>
>>>look to Hyundai.
>>>
>>
>>You are missing the original point entirely. The OP was concerned about
>>whether he should ever buy a Hyundai again because of a cracked piston.
>> My point was that the cracked piston wasn't Hyundai's fault. Sure,
>>they are the one's that have to make it right, which it sounds like
>>there were, but the point is that since pistons are made by a piston
>>supplier, this could equally likely happen to ANY car maker, not just
>>Hyundai. So deciding not to buy a Hyundai again because of this sort of
>>failure, would simply not be logical.
>>
>
>
> Sorry Matt - I had been following this thread but I got thrown by your
> closing sentence "Manufacturing defects are the responsibility of the
> manufacturer of the piston".
>

I meant "cause" in the sense of who created the defect, not necessarily
who was responsible to the car owner to get it fixed. No argument from
me that Hyundai owns the problem, but I wouldn't say they were the root
cause of the problem.

Matt

 

Bob Adkins wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 02:32:18 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>> My point was that the cracked piston wasn't Hyundai's fault. Sure,
>>they are the one's that have to make it right, which it sounds like
>>there were, but the point is that since pistons are made by a piston
>>supplier, this could equally likely happen to ANY car maker, not just
>>Hyundai. So deciding not to buy a Hyundai again because of this sort of
>>failure, would simply not be logical.
>
>
> It's Hyundai's fault for choosing that manufacturer for their pistons.

That may be the case, but I wouldn't make that call unless a significant
number of pistons fail. :-)


Matt

 

Bob Adkins wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 02:32:18 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>> My point was that the cracked piston wasn't Hyundai's fault. Sure,
>>they are the one's that have to make it right, which it sounds like
>>there were, but the point is that since pistons are made by a piston
>>supplier, this could equally likely happen to ANY car maker, not just
>>Hyundai. So deciding not to buy a Hyundai again because of this sort of
>>failure, would simply not be logical.
>
>
> It's Hyundai's fault for choosing that manufacturer for their pistons.

That may be the case, but I wouldn't make that call unless a significant
number of pistons fail. :-)


Matt

 

Bob Adkins wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 02:32:18 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>> My point was that the cracked piston wasn't Hyundai's fault. Sure,
>>they are the one's that have to make it right, which it sounds like
>>there were, but the point is that since pistons are made by a piston
>>supplier, this could equally likely happen to ANY car maker, not just
>>Hyundai. So deciding not to buy a Hyundai again because of this sort of
>>failure, would simply not be logical.
>
>
> It's Hyundai's fault for choosing that manufacturer for their pistons.

That may be the case, but I wouldn't make that call unless a significant
number of pistons fail. :-)


Matt

 

bobweb via CarKB.com wrote:

> Matt, Mike and Bob- Thanks for the discussion on what we should expect from a
> car manufacturer to deserve our continued business with them. I agree that
> you really can't expect internal engine parts not to fail prematurely with
> some small probability, and all the manufacturers must have pistons fail
> occasionally. Actually, I purchased a Hyundai because they gave me more car
> for the money compared to Toyota for example. To some extent I'm willing to
> have a higher failure rate with Hyundai than with Toyota, because a similarly
> equipped Toyota costs more, in general. So you may be a consumer who's
> willing to take a chance on having a few more things go wrong with the car as
> long as the manufacturer upholds the warranty etc.

I wouldn't accept any lower quality than Toyota and knowing the Koreans
they won't either.


> An update from my dealer is positive in that they decided to replace both the
> engine block and heads as a complete "long block" unit instead of building
> the engine up in the shop as originally planned. So on the one hand I get
> basically a new engine, but on the other hand I've lost use of the car for at
> least a month. Many people can't afford to be without a car for a month while
> still paying for the insurance and depreciation etc costs of owning a car.
> They did not provide me with a rental or loaner car which is not provided
> under the normal warranty. We'll see how the reassembled car performs!

I'd say they've done as right by you as they possibly could.

Matt

 

bobweb via CarKB.com wrote:

> Matt, Mike and Bob- Thanks for the discussion on what we should expect from a
> car manufacturer to deserve our continued business with them. I agree that
> you really can't expect internal engine parts not to fail prematurely with
> some small probability, and all the manufacturers must have pistons fail
> occasionally. Actually, I purchased a Hyundai because they gave me more car
> for the money compared to Toyota for example. To some extent I'm willing to
> have a higher failure rate with Hyundai than with Toyota, because a similarly
> equipped Toyota costs more, in general. So you may be a consumer who's
> willing to take a chance on having a few more things go wrong with the car as
> long as the manufacturer upholds the warranty etc.

I wouldn't accept any lower quality than Toyota and knowing the Koreans
they won't either.


> An update from my dealer is positive in that they decided to replace both the
> engine block and heads as a complete "long block" unit instead of building
> the engine up in the shop as originally planned. So on the one hand I get
> basically a new engine, but on the other hand I've lost use of the car for at
> least a month. Many people can't afford to be without a car for a month while
> still paying for the insurance and depreciation etc costs of owning a car.
> They did not provide me with a rental or loaner car which is not provided
> under the normal warranty. We'll see how the reassembled car performs!

I'd say they've done as right by you as they possibly could.

Matt

 

bobweb via CarKB.com wrote:

> Matt, Mike and Bob- Thanks for the discussion on what we should expect from a
> car manufacturer to deserve our continued business with them. I agree that
> you really can't expect internal engine parts not to fail prematurely with
> some small probability, and all the manufacturers must have pistons fail
> occasionally. Actually, I purchased a Hyundai because they gave me more car
> for the money compared to Toyota for example. To some extent I'm willing to
> have a higher failure rate with Hyundai than with Toyota, because a similarly
> equipped Toyota costs more, in general. So you may be a consumer who's
> willing to take a chance on having a few more things go wrong with the car as
> long as the manufacturer upholds the warranty etc.

I wouldn't accept any lower quality than Toyota and knowing the Koreans
they won't either.


> An update from my dealer is positive in that they decided to replace both the
> engine block and heads as a complete "long block" unit instead of building
> the engine up in the shop as originally planned. So on the one hand I get
> basically a new engine, but on the other hand I've lost use of the car for at
> least a month. Many people can't afford to be without a car for a month while
> still paying for the insurance and depreciation etc costs of owning a car.
> They did not provide me with a rental or loaner car which is not provided
> under the normal warranty. We'll see how the reassembled car performs!

I'd say they've done as right by you as they possibly could.

Matt

 

Here's the final mid February 06 update on my 2003 Hyundai Elantra engine
failure at 36K miles. The Baltimore area dealer has done a great job in
replacing the engine in a reasonable amount of time (3 weeks). I went over
the engine installation looking for signs of hasty reassembly etc and found
none, although when I checked the antifreeze protection level, it showed +10
degrees on my ethylene glycol compatible gauge. I had just backflushed the
cooling system and installed a 50% antifreeze concentration (1/2 full
strength ethylene glycol and 1/2 distilled water) before the engine failure,
so I'm sure that when they refilled the coolant system with the new engine,
they did not restore the antifreeze to the proper 50%/50% concentration
specified in the owner's manual. The car is running great. They even washed
it and shined the tires up before returning it to me. I have no problem with
Hyundai's warranty or the dealer's service, which was no charge under the
warranty. I would now buy a new Sonata and my sister is looking at a new
Tucson. A little good service goes a long way in maintaining a company's
reputation, and both dealer and manufacturer came through for me this time.

bobweb wrote:
>Matt, Mike and Bob- Thanks for the discussion on what we should expect from a
>car manufacturer to deserve our continued business with them. I agree that
>you really can't expect internal engine parts not to fail prematurely with
>some small probability, and all the manufacturers must have pistons fail
>occasionally. Actually, I purchased a Hyundai because they gave me more car
>for the money compared to Toyota for example. To some extent I'm willing to
>have a higher failure rate with Hyundai than with Toyota, because a similarly
>equipped Toyota costs more, in general. So you may be a consumer who's
>willing to take a chance on having a few more things go wrong with the car as
>long as the manufacturer upholds the warranty etc.
>
>An update from my dealer is positive in that they decided to replace both the
>engine block and heads as a complete "long block" unit instead of building
>the engine up in the shop as originally planned. So on the one hand I get
>basically a new engine, but on the other hand I've lost use of the car for at
>least a month. Many people can't afford to be without a car for a month while
>still paying for the insurance and depreciation etc costs of owning a car.
>They did not provide me with a rental or loaner car which is not provided
>under the normal warranty. We'll see how the reassembled car performs!
>
>Bobweb
>
>>> My point was that the cracked piston wasn't Hyundai's fault. Sure,
>>>they are the one's that have to make it right, which it sounds like
>[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>>corrective action. If they give the customer a hassle and let the
>>manufacturer get away with shoddy parts, shame on them.

--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

 

Here's the final mid February 06 update on my 2003 Hyundai Elantra engine
failure at 36K miles. The Baltimore area dealer has done a great job in
replacing the engine in a reasonable amount of time (3 weeks). I went over
the engine installation looking for signs of hasty reassembly etc and found
none, although when I checked the antifreeze protection level, it showed +10
degrees on my ethylene glycol compatible gauge. I had just backflushed the
cooling system and installed a 50% antifreeze concentration (1/2 full
strength ethylene glycol and 1/2 distilled water) before the engine failure,
so I'm sure that when they refilled the coolant system with the new engine,
they did not restore the antifreeze to the proper 50%/50% concentration
specified in the owner's manual. The car is running great. They even washed
it and shined the tires up before returning it to me. I have no problem with
Hyundai's warranty or the dealer's service, which was no charge under the
warranty. I would now buy a new Sonata and my sister is looking at a new
Tucson. A little good service goes a long way in maintaining a company's
reputation, and both dealer and manufacturer came through for me this time.

bobweb wrote:
>Matt, Mike and Bob- Thanks for the discussion on what we should expect from a
>car manufacturer to deserve our continued business with them. I agree that
>you really can't expect internal engine parts not to fail prematurely with
>some small probability, and all the manufacturers must have pistons fail
>occasionally. Actually, I purchased a Hyundai because they gave me more car
>for the money compared to Toyota for example. To some extent I'm willing to
>have a higher failure rate with Hyundai than with Toyota, because a similarly
>equipped Toyota costs more, in general. So you may be a consumer who's
>willing to take a chance on having a few more things go wrong with the car as
>long as the manufacturer upholds the warranty etc.
>
>An update from my dealer is positive in that they decided to replace both the
>engine block and heads as a complete "long block" unit instead of building
>the engine up in the shop as originally planned. So on the one hand I get
>basically a new engine, but on the other hand I've lost use of the car for at
>least a month. Many people can't afford to be without a car for a month while
>still paying for the insurance and depreciation etc costs of owning a car.
>They did not provide me with a rental or loaner car which is not provided
>under the normal warranty. We'll see how the reassembled car performs!
>
>Bobweb
>
>>> My point was that the cracked piston wasn't Hyundai's fault. Sure,
>>>they are the one's that have to make it right, which it sounds like
>[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>>corrective action. If they give the customer a hassle and let the
>>manufacturer get away with shoddy parts, shame on them.

--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com