joe

Hi, everyone.
Looks like my engine has parts that are broken. the dealership
charge me $350 for oil change cables and sensor for nothing. I drove
the car and after 7 miles and now they want me to spend another $360
to tell the insurance what is wrong with the car. Is this reasonable?
thanks

Bob

joe wrote:
> Hi, everyone.
> Looks like my engine has parts that are broken. the dealership
> charge me $350 for oil change cables and sensor for nothing. I drove
> the car and after 7 miles and now they want me to spend another $360
> to tell the insurance what is wrong with the car. Is this reasonable?
> thanks
>
No it's not reasonable but a lot of dealerships will try to get you to
pay for diagnostics, that's a red flag they're greedy I would go to
another dealership if you can. Is the car under warranty? If not go to a
good independent shop- ask around for references. If it's still under
warranty find another dealer if you can.

I've heard of people paying $500 to diagnose a $50 problem.

Matt Whiting

Bob wrote:
> joe wrote:
>
>> Hi, everyone.
>> Looks like my engine has parts that are broken. the dealership
>> charge me $350 for oil change cables and sensor for nothing. I drove
>> the car and after 7 miles and now they want me to spend another $360
>> to tell the insurance what is wrong with the car. Is this reasonable?
>> thanks
>>
> No it's not reasonable but a lot of dealerships will try to get you to
> pay for diagnostics, that's a red flag they're greedy I would go to
> another dealership if you can. Is the car under warranty? If not go to a
> good independent shop- ask around for references. If it's still under
> warranty find another dealer if you can.
>
> I've heard of people paying $500 to diagnose a $50 problem.

Does your doctor diagnose you for free also? If he or she does, please
let me know their name so I can go there also!!


Matt

Eric G.

Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote in
news:y35Bh.2684$Oc.159718@news1.epix.net:

> Bob wrote:
>> joe wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, everyone.
>>> Looks like my engine has parts that are broken. the dealership
>>> charge me $350 for oil change cables and sensor for nothing. I drove
>>> the car and after 7 miles and now they want me to spend another $360
>>> to tell the insurance what is wrong with the car. Is this
>>> reasonable? thanks
>>>
>> No it's not reasonable but a lot of dealerships will try to get you
>> to
>> pay for diagnostics, that's a red flag they're greedy I would go to
>> another dealership if you can. Is the car under warranty? If not go
>> to a good independent shop- ask around for references. If it's still
>> under warranty find another dealer if you can.
>>
>> I've heard of people paying $500 to diagnose a $50 problem.
>
> Does your doctor diagnose you for free also? If he or she does,
> please let me know their name so I can go there also!!

In most cases, the Dr. can't just hook up a cable to my OBD port and
know the problem instantaneously. Yes, there is overhead, like the cost
of the machine and the lights and the heat and the employees and so on,
but many of these dealers are charging exhorbatant rates to "diagnose"
what the computer will already tell them is wrong.

What baffles me even more is that some dealers can survive quite well
without the "diagnostic fee", even though the same overhead is involved.
And before anyone says that they charge more for their cars, I'd rather
pay a little more up front than have to shell out some fee every time
there is a little problem with the car.

Eric

Bob

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Bob wrote:
>
>> joe wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, everyone.
>>> Looks like my engine has parts that are broken. the dealership
>>> charge me $350 for oil change cables and sensor for nothing. I drove
>>> the car and after 7 miles and now they want me to spend another $360
>>> to tell the insurance what is wrong with the car. Is this reasonable?
>>> thanks
>>>
>> No it's not reasonable but a lot of dealerships will try to get you
>> to pay for diagnostics, that's a red flag they're greedy I would go to
>> another dealership if you can. Is the car under warranty? If not go to
>> a good independent shop- ask around for references. If it's still
>> under warranty find another dealer if you can.
>>
>> I've heard of people paying $500 to diagnose a $50 problem.
>
>
> Does your doctor diagnose you for free also? If he or she does, please
> let me know their name so I can go there also!!
>
>
> Matt
You're right, my doctor charges a fortune and all he does is diagnose,
but hardly ever fixes the problem!

But at least the dealer could offer you a credit for the diagnose charge
if you do the repair there. I've had dealers charge me over
$1,000 to fix something then they say, woops that wasn't it, maybe you
need a $2,000 repair, that might fix it, it's only another $350 to
diagnose if that's it...

I've got a great mom and pop shop. No "diagnostic" charges. Sure, if
he's got to remove the engine or something he'll charge for the labor,
but give you credit towards the repair.

Matt Whiting

Bob wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> Bob wrote:
>>
>>> joe wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, everyone.
>>>> Looks like my engine has parts that are broken. the dealership
>>>> charge me $350 for oil change cables and sensor for nothing. I drove
>>>> the car and after 7 miles and now they want me to spend another $360
>>>> to tell the insurance what is wrong with the car. Is this reasonable?
>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>> No it's not reasonable but a lot of dealerships will try to get you
>>> to pay for diagnostics, that's a red flag they're greedy I would go
>>> to another dealership if you can. Is the car under warranty? If not
>>> go to a good independent shop- ask around for references. If it's
>>> still under warranty find another dealer if you can.
>>>
>>> I've heard of people paying $500 to diagnose a $50 problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does your doctor diagnose you for free also? If he or she does,
>> please let me know their name so I can go there also!!
>>
>>
>> Matt
>
> You're right, my doctor charges a fortune and all he does is diagnose,
> but hardly ever fixes the problem!
>
> But at least the dealer could offer you a credit for the diagnose charge
> if you do the repair there. I've had dealers charge me over
> $1,000 to fix something then they say, woops that wasn't it, maybe you
> need a $2,000 repair, that might fix it, it's only another $350 to
> diagnose if that's it...
>
> I've got a great mom and pop shop. No "diagnostic" charges. Sure, if
> he's got to remove the engine or something he'll charge for the labor,
> but give you credit towards the repair.

It doesn't matter how the costs are broken down on the invoice, you are
paying for the diagnostic time one way or the other. You either pay in
higher purchase prices, pay explicitly or pay with higher repair
charges. I'm amazed at folks who think that something is free just
because they don't see it itemized on the bill. Personally, I'd rather
see what I'm paying for rather that have it all lumped together.

Matt

Thee Chicago Wolf

>Looks like my engine has parts that are broken. the dealership
>charge me $350 for oil change cables and sensor for nothing. I drove
>the car and after 7 miles and now they want me to spend another $360
>to tell the insurance what is wrong with the car. Is this reasonable?
>thanks

I heard a story on the news some time late last year that you could go
to a Jiffy Lube and hook up to a diagnostic box and get a read-out of
what is wrong with your car from the OBD computer for $15-20. About
time, the days of the outrageous cost of going to a service shop and
getting hit for $120 to tell you why your check engine light is on is
over. It is supposed to have taken effect this February and here is
the story to prove it:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...06/036272.html

- Thee Chicago Wolf

irwell

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:06:50 GMT, Thee Chicago Wolf <.@.> wrote:

>>Looks like my engine has parts that are broken. the dealership
>>charge me $350 for oil change cables and sensor for nothing. I drove
>>the car and after 7 miles and now they want me to spend another $360
>>to tell the insurance what is wrong with the car. Is this reasonable?
>>thanks
>
>I heard a story on the news some time late last year that you could go
>to a Jiffy Lube and hook up to a diagnostic box and get a read-out of
>what is wrong with your car from the OBD computer for $15-20. About
>time, the days of the outrageous cost of going to a service shop and
>getting hit for $120 to tell you why your check engine light is on is
>over. It is supposed to have taken effect this February and here is
>the story to prove it:
>http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...06/036272.html
>
>- Thee Chicago Wolf

Thanks for the link.
The local Shell station has one of these Sam's machines.
I went down there today, a bit cumbersome to work, touch screen
display. The hardest part was locating the Onboard Display connector
in the car.

Takes about five minutes for the scanning and print out, In my case,
there were no faults, gives a summary of the car's warranty
information.
I have posted a copy of the scan report here
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k8...anImage002.jpg

I have visited the SAM website with the locator ID to get a supposedly
fuller report, but they are having problems at this time!

Anyway, only $15 and a bit of time.

Matt Whiting

Thee Chicago Wolf wrote:
>>Looks like my engine has parts that are broken. the dealership
>>charge me $350 for oil change cables and sensor for nothing. I drove
>>the car and after 7 miles and now they want me to spend another $360
>>to tell the insurance what is wrong with the car. Is this reasonable?
>>thanks
>
>
> I heard a story on the news some time late last year that you could go
> to a Jiffy Lube and hook up to a diagnostic box and get a read-out of
> what is wrong with your car from the OBD computer for $15-20. About
> time, the days of the outrageous cost of going to a service shop and
> getting hit for $120 to tell you why your check engine light is on is
> over. It is supposed to have taken effect this February and here is
> the story to prove it:
> http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...06/036272.html
>
> - Thee Chicago Wolf

I had a "free" reading at AutoZone a couple of years ago. Turns out the
code they gave me wasn't even close to being related to the problem and
was for a problem that had been corrected a few weeks earlier. I'd have
replaced a perfectly good part and still had a problem if I had taken
their free reading. I went to the dealer and got the correct code and
got the problem fixed right the first time.

The old saying "you get what you pay for" still holds.

Matt

Thee Chicago Wolf

>I had a "free" reading at AutoZone a couple of years ago. Turns out the
>code they gave me wasn't even close to being related to the problem and
>was for a problem that had been corrected a few weeks earlier. I'd have
>replaced a perfectly good part and still had a problem if I had taken
>their free reading. I went to the dealer and got the correct code and
>got the problem fixed right the first time.
>
>The old saying "you get what you pay for" still holds.

There's also a saying, just because something costs a lot of money, it
does not mean it's actually worth it. I wouldn't go poo pooing a
technology with Mario Andretti's seal of approval. Not that it
actually mean's anything, but those kiosks seem a lot more 21st
century than the crusty ODB readers I see at nearly any shop I got
too. I presume, from a computer technician's perspective, the reason
whomever got the code wrong was because the software from the machine
that read it might not have been up to date. Do you honestly think
shop techs actually keep their diagnostic software and firmware code
up to date? From a revenue standpoint, it's easier for shops to buy
the newest technology and just pass the cost on to the consumer. After
all, anybody with a laptop can buy ODBI, ODBII, & CAN software for
Windows or Palm and run their own diagnostics on their own cars.
Again, and again, and again. Hell, you could even run it on your
friends cars and charge a couple of bucks. If you can't beat 'em, just
undercut 'em.

- Thee Chicago Wolf

Tom

But they're right, Matt. It doesn't take $350 of labor to hook up an OBDII
and read the fault. I do it to my son's Jetta all the time (tells you
something about Jettas!!!!). It takes 5 minutes max.
I once had to pay an Olds dealer $200 bucks to tell me that my cat converter
was clogged (covered under warrantee), which I told him was collapsed
according to the trouble shooting guide in the maintenance manual. Just
hook up a vacuum gauge to the intake and it's obvious. Needless to say,
they lost any chance of a resale or return for other service.

Tom


"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:nWgBh.2689$Oc.159990@news1.epix.net...
> Bob wrote:
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>> Bob wrote:
>>>
>>>> joe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, everyone.
>>>>> Looks like my engine has parts that are broken. the dealership
>>>>> charge me $350 for oil change cables and sensor for nothing. I drove
>>>>> the car and after 7 miles and now they want me to spend another $360
>>>>> to tell the insurance what is wrong with the car. Is this reasonable?
>>>>> thanks
>>>>>
>>>> No it's not reasonable but a lot of dealerships will try to get you to
>>>> pay for diagnostics, that's a red flag they're greedy I would go to
>>>> another dealership if you can. Is the car under warranty? If not go to
>>>> a good independent shop- ask around for references. If it's still under
>>>> warranty find another dealer if you can.
>>>>
>>>> I've heard of people paying $500 to diagnose a $50 problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does your doctor diagnose you for free also? If he or she does, please
>>> let me know their name so I can go there also!!
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>> You're right, my doctor charges a fortune and all he does is diagnose,
>> but hardly ever fixes the problem!
>>
>> But at least the dealer could offer you a credit for the diagnose charge
>> if you do the repair there. I've had dealers charge me over
>> $1,000 to fix something then they say, woops that wasn't it, maybe you
>> need a $2,000 repair, that might fix it, it's only another $350 to
>> diagnose if that's it...
>>
>> I've got a great mom and pop shop. No "diagnostic" charges. Sure, if he's
>> got to remove the engine or something he'll charge for the labor, but
>> give you credit towards the repair.
>
> It doesn't matter how the costs are broken down on the invoice, you are
> paying for the diagnostic time one way or the other. You either pay in
> higher purchase prices, pay explicitly or pay with higher repair charges.
> I'm amazed at folks who think that something is free just because they
> don't see it itemized on the bill. Personally, I'd rather see what I'm
> paying for rather that have it all lumped together.
>
> Matt

Hyundaitech

"joe" wrote:
>Hi, everyone.
> Looks like my engine has parts that are broken. the dealership
>charge me 0 for oil change cables and sensor for nothing. I drove
>the car and after 7 miles and now they want me to spend another 0
>to tell the insurance what is wrong with the car. Is this reasonable?
>thanks

There’s some important information missing. Why did you spend the
money for these things? Presumably, it was intended to fix something.
What changed after the work, if anything? Is there a new issue now?

While I agree what you’ve posted doesn’t sound reasonable, I don’t
know all the details, either.

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Articles individually verified to usenet standards. Visit URL to contact author/report abuse
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Hyundaitech

"Eric G." wrote:
>In most cases, the Dr. can’t just hook up a cable to my OBD port
>and know the problem instantaneously.

In all but a few cases, the technician cannot do this either. An
extreme example would be the P0101 code on 1997-2001 Kia Sportages.
The code indicates a "range/performance" issue with the air flow
sensor. The culprit in nearly every case was a faulty throttle
position sensor. Even using what most would consider normal
diagnostics for the P0101 condition, the problem could be in the
wiring or the ECM. Just seeing a code doesn’t indicate the technician
should jump right to the sensor and replace it.

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Articles individually verified to usenet standards. Visit URL to contact author/report abuse
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Matt Whiting

Tom wrote:
> But they're right, Matt. It doesn't take $350 of labor to hook up an OBDII
> and read the fault. I do it to my son's Jetta all the time (tells you
> something about Jettas!!!!). It takes 5 minutes max.
> I once had to pay an Olds dealer $200 bucks to tell me that my cat converter
> was clogged (covered under warrantee), which I told him was collapsed
> according to the trouble shooting guide in the maintenance manual. Just
> hook up a vacuum gauge to the intake and it's obvious. Needless to say,
> they lost any chance of a resale or return for other service.

Reading the code isn't making a diagnosis of the fault. I've never been
charged more than $50 for reading a code alone and often much less.
However, that is just the first step in diagnosing a problem. People
who think the OBD system tells the tech exactly what is wrong and
exactly what to replace are very naive and have never worked on a car
before.


Matt

Wayne Moses

Reply to message from "joe" <jcharth@gmail.com> (Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:42:55)
about "dealership charging me $350 for car inspection?":

j> Hi, everyone.
j> Looks like my engine has parts that are broken. the dealership charge
j> me $350 for oil change cables and sensor for nothing. I drove the car
j> and after 7 miles and now they want me to spend another $360 to tell
j> the insurance what is wrong with the car. Is this reasonable? thanks

Never mind reasonable - it is not even understandable. Please clarify your
post.

What happened after you drove it 7 miles? Why is insurance involved?

There seems to be many missing details in your post.

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <wmoses@houston.rr.com> Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:43:11 -0600

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