Foreign cars pass Big 3
07-26-2006, 05:59 PM
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message
news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
> types and bean counters are important."......
>
> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters.
Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word?
Jeff
07-26-2006, 06:22 PM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:S%Kxg.18975$pu3.352767@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> snip
>
>>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>>> degrees and more "car people".
>>
>> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
>> types and bean counters are important.
>
> I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
> "car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
Actually, I would argue that the car people need more influence and the
accounts need to have less influence. It is not the fault of either group of
people. It is the fault of the management for their choice of to whom to
listen.
Jeff
07-26-2006, 06:22 PM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:S%Kxg.18975$pu3.352767@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> snip
>
>>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>>> degrees and more "car people".
>>
>> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
>> types and bean counters are important.
>
> I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
> "car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
Actually, I would argue that the car people need more influence and the
accounts need to have less influence. It is not the fault of either group of
people. It is the fault of the management for their choice of to whom to
listen.
Jeff
07-26-2006, 06:22 PM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:S%Kxg.18975$pu3.352767@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> snip
>
>>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>>> degrees and more "car people".
>>
>> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
>> types and bean counters are important.
>
> I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
> "car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
Actually, I would argue that the car people need more influence and the
accounts need to have less influence. It is not the fault of either group of
people. It is the fault of the management for their choice of to whom to
listen.
Jeff
07-26-2006, 09:15 PM
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:02:28 GMT, "Jeff" <jeff@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
>news:yfIxg.17744$pu3.351347@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>> snip
>>
>>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a
>>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for
>>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers.
>>
>> Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car
>> compared to
>> the Big 3?
>> What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees?
>> If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to
>> demand concessions
>> from them to save the companies and their jobs.
>
>It's already here. The companies are demanding concessions involved health
>care. Soon they will involve pensions. The Big 2 and the American part of
>the Dialmer-Chrysler and many of their suppliers have pension obligations
>that have not yet been met. IN most of Europe, the government takes care of
>the pensions.
And health care too. Of course, it has to be paid for by someone
either way. In Europe and Japan, health care costs are a fraction of
those in the US and everyone is covered.
>
>"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
>news:yfIxg.17744$pu3.351347@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>> snip
>>
>>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a
>>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for
>>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers.
>>
>> Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car
>> compared to
>> the Big 3?
>> What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees?
>> If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to
>> demand concessions
>> from them to save the companies and their jobs.
>
>It's already here. The companies are demanding concessions involved health
>care. Soon they will involve pensions. The Big 2 and the American part of
>the Dialmer-Chrysler and many of their suppliers have pension obligations
>that have not yet been met. IN most of Europe, the government takes care of
>the pensions.
And health care too. Of course, it has to be paid for by someone
either way. In Europe and Japan, health care costs are a fraction of
those in the US and everyone is covered.
07-26-2006, 09:15 PM
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:02:28 GMT, "Jeff" <jeff@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
>news:yfIxg.17744$pu3.351347@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>> snip
>>
>>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a
>>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for
>>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers.
>>
>> Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car
>> compared to
>> the Big 3?
>> What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees?
>> If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to
>> demand concessions
>> from them to save the companies and their jobs.
>
>It's already here. The companies are demanding concessions involved health
>care. Soon they will involve pensions. The Big 2 and the American part of
>the Dialmer-Chrysler and many of their suppliers have pension obligations
>that have not yet been met. IN most of Europe, the government takes care of
>the pensions.
And health care too. Of course, it has to be paid for by someone
either way. In Europe and Japan, health care costs are a fraction of
those in the US and everyone is covered.
>
>"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
>news:yfIxg.17744$pu3.351347@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>> snip
>>
>>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a
>>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for
>>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers.
>>
>> Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car
>> compared to
>> the Big 3?
>> What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees?
>> If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to
>> demand concessions
>> from them to save the companies and their jobs.
>
>It's already here. The companies are demanding concessions involved health
>care. Soon they will involve pensions. The Big 2 and the American part of
>the Dialmer-Chrysler and many of their suppliers have pension obligations
>that have not yet been met. IN most of Europe, the government takes care of
>the pensions.
And health care too. Of course, it has to be paid for by someone
either way. In Europe and Japan, health care costs are a fraction of
those in the US and everyone is covered.
07-26-2006, 09:15 PM
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:02:28 GMT, "Jeff" <jeff@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
>news:yfIxg.17744$pu3.351347@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>> snip
>>
>>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a
>>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for
>>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers.
>>
>> Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car
>> compared to
>> the Big 3?
>> What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees?
>> If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to
>> demand concessions
>> from them to save the companies and their jobs.
>
>It's already here. The companies are demanding concessions involved health
>care. Soon they will involve pensions. The Big 2 and the American part of
>the Dialmer-Chrysler and many of their suppliers have pension obligations
>that have not yet been met. IN most of Europe, the government takes care of
>the pensions.
And health care too. Of course, it has to be paid for by someone
either way. In Europe and Japan, health care costs are a fraction of
those in the US and everyone is covered.
>
>"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
>news:yfIxg.17744$pu3.351347@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>> snip
>>
>>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a
>>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for
>>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers.
>>
>> Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car
>> compared to
>> the Big 3?
>> What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees?
>> If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to
>> demand concessions
>> from them to save the companies and their jobs.
>
>It's already here. The companies are demanding concessions involved health
>care. Soon they will involve pensions. The Big 2 and the American part of
>the Dialmer-Chrysler and many of their suppliers have pension obligations
>that have not yet been met. IN most of Europe, the government takes care of
>the pensions.
And health care too. Of course, it has to be paid for by someone
either way. In Europe and Japan, health care costs are a fraction of
those in the US and everyone is covered.
07-26-2006, 10:38 PM
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
Jeff wrote:
> "Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message
> news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com...
>> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
>> types and bean counters are important."......
>>
>> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
>> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
>
> Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters.
>
> Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word?
>
> Jeff
>
>
Well, the CEO of GM came from the ranks of bean counters, not car guys.
> "Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message
> news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com...
>> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
>> types and bean counters are important."......
>>
>> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
>> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
>
> Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters.
>
> Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word?
>
> Jeff
>
>
Well, the CEO of GM came from the ranks of bean counters, not car guys.
07-26-2006, 10:38 PM
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
Jeff wrote:
> "Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message
> news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com...
>> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
>> types and bean counters are important."......
>>
>> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
>> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
>
> Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters.
>
> Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word?
>
> Jeff
>
>
Well, the CEO of GM came from the ranks of bean counters, not car guys.
> "Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message
> news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com...
>> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
>> types and bean counters are important."......
>>
>> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
>> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
>
> Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters.
>
> Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word?
>
> Jeff
>
>
Well, the CEO of GM came from the ranks of bean counters, not car guys.
07-26-2006, 10:38 PM
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
Jeff wrote:
> "Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message
> news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com...
>> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
>> types and bean counters are important."......
>>
>> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
>> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
>
> Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters.
>
> Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word?
>
> Jeff
>
>
Well, the CEO of GM came from the ranks of bean counters, not car guys.
> "Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message
> news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com...
>> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
>> types and bean counters are important."......
>>
>> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
>> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
>
> Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters.
>
> Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word?
>
> Jeff
>
>
Well, the CEO of GM came from the ranks of bean counters, not car guys.
07-26-2006, 11:49 PM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:22:06 GMT, "Bassplayer12"
<perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>snip
>
>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a
>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for
>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers.
>
>Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car compared
>to
>the Big 3?
>What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees?
>If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to demand
>concessions
>from them to save the companies and their jobs.
The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10
million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near
that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated
at the domestic companies.
<perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>snip
>
>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a
>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for
>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers.
>
>Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car compared
>to
>the Big 3?
>What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees?
>If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to demand
>concessions
>from them to save the companies and their jobs.
The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10
million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near
that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated
at the domestic companies.
07-26-2006, 11:49 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:22:06 GMT, "Bassplayer12"
<perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>snip
>
>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a
>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for
>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers.
>
>Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car compared
>to
>the Big 3?
>What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees?
>If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to demand
>concessions
>from them to save the companies and their jobs.
The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10
million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near
that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated
at the domestic companies.
<perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>snip
>
>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a
>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for
>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers.
>
>Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car compared
>to
>the Big 3?
>What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees?
>If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to demand
>concessions
>from them to save the companies and their jobs.
The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10
million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near
that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated
at the domestic companies.
07-26-2006, 11:49 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:22:06 GMT, "Bassplayer12"
<perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>snip
>
>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a
>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for
>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers.
>
>Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car compared
>to
>the Big 3?
>What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees?
>If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to demand
>concessions
>from them to save the companies and their jobs.
The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10
million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near
that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated
at the domestic companies.
<perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>snip
>
>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a
>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for
>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers.
>
>Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car compared
>to
>the Big 3?
>What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees?
>If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to demand
>concessions
>from them to save the companies and their jobs.
The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10
million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near
that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated
at the domestic companies.
07-27-2006, 07:56 AM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8a5gc2h1b73qck3o095spum42i0o405oph@4ax.com...
>
> The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10
> million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near
> that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated
> at the domestic companies.
>
Don't get me wrong, I'm very much a capitalist, but I do believe you've hit
on something here Gordon that hasn't been hashed about much in this
discussion. It's not just an automotive industry issue either. It's a
cultural issue that is hurting the corporate world across industry segments.
Executive compensation has gotten out of hand and the plans are too focused
on factors that provide short sighted "good" for the shareholders. The long
term well being of the company, the well being of the employees, concern and
commitment to the employees, all have fallen out of favor. Customer
satisfaction, which ensures these things has become a point issue which is
addressed in response to problems instead of a goal which drives the
production process of the company. Cost is what drives the company. The
CEO of today is compelled to make cost cutting his number one objective and
his financial success is directly tied to that effort. While a valid
management concern, cost containment is only one part of a long term success
formula. For short term objectives, it is usually the driving element of a
formula.
But - the shareholders like their dividends, the CEO has his own ego driver
that wants to be recognized among his peers for having lead a successful
company, and the stock market has too much influence on business today. It
results in executive packages that encourage and reward short sighted
business practices. Good for the executive pay, not so good for every thing
else in the business.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
07-27-2006, 07:56 AM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8a5gc2h1b73qck3o095spum42i0o405oph@4ax.com...
>
> The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10
> million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near
> that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated
> at the domestic companies.
>
Don't get me wrong, I'm very much a capitalist, but I do believe you've hit
on something here Gordon that hasn't been hashed about much in this
discussion. It's not just an automotive industry issue either. It's a
cultural issue that is hurting the corporate world across industry segments.
Executive compensation has gotten out of hand and the plans are too focused
on factors that provide short sighted "good" for the shareholders. The long
term well being of the company, the well being of the employees, concern and
commitment to the employees, all have fallen out of favor. Customer
satisfaction, which ensures these things has become a point issue which is
addressed in response to problems instead of a goal which drives the
production process of the company. Cost is what drives the company. The
CEO of today is compelled to make cost cutting his number one objective and
his financial success is directly tied to that effort. While a valid
management concern, cost containment is only one part of a long term success
formula. For short term objectives, it is usually the driving element of a
formula.
But - the shareholders like their dividends, the CEO has his own ego driver
that wants to be recognized among his peers for having lead a successful
company, and the stock market has too much influence on business today. It
results in executive packages that encourage and reward short sighted
business practices. Good for the executive pay, not so good for every thing
else in the business.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net