happy

Since the model has a automatic timing adjuster, can 2000 ELANTRA adjust
to the higher octane (higher advance) gasoline and make full use of
it, or it is only a waste of money.
BMW, for example, will adjust fire timing according to the octane
rating, hence with higher octane gasoline (more cost) you will get more
mileage.
I contacted Hyundai manufacturer and some local reps, yet nobody was
able to answer it. I tried this to test myself, but is very hard to
figure out without very precise measurements.

Jason

The manual for my 04 Sonata specifically said not to use Premium Fuel.

So I am guessing it is a waste of money.


"happy" <happy@camper.com> wrote in message news:yWDqh.149525$YV4.148418@edtnps89...
> Since the model has a automatic timing adjuster, can 2000 ELANTRA adjust to the higher octane (higher advance)
> gasoline and make full use of it, or it is only a waste of money.
> BMW, for example, will adjust fire timing according to the octane rating, hence with higher octane gasoline (more
> cost) you will get more mileage.
> I contacted Hyundai manufacturer and some local reps, yet nobody was able to answer it. I tried this to test myself,
> but is very hard to figure out without very precise measurements.

Brian Nystrom

Jason wrote:
> The manual for my 04 Sonata specifically said not to use Premium Fuel.
>
> So I am guessing it is a waste of money.

Not only is it a waste of money, but it will cause carbon buildup in the
engine over time. So basically, you're paying more to ruin your engine.

happy

Brian Nystrom wrote:
> Jason wrote:
>> The manual for my 04 Sonata specifically said not to use Premium Fuel.
>>
>> So I am guessing it is a waste of money.
>
> Not only is it a waste of money, but it will cause carbon buildup in the
> engine over time. So basically, you're paying more to ruin your engine.

I was told that higher octane fuels have higher amount cleaning
additives to prevent this. And lover sulfur contamination, the most
destructive part. True, if the engine is not running at the correct
temperature, it will increase deposits. Some mechanics wrote, if you
would like to make 1/2 mil km on the same engine, you must use premium
gasoline. (Mercedes mechanic).

So, ELANTRA has the automatic timing build in, but it is limited to
regular gasoline only, so the engine will fail (cannot use higher
quality fuels) just as any regular car, it that the notion here? (We do
not want to compete with Mecry after all .

All EU high end cars use only higher octane gasolines.

Brian Nystrom

happy wrote:
> Brian Nystrom wrote:
>> Jason wrote:
>>> The manual for my 04 Sonata specifically said not to use Premium Fuel.
>>>
>>> So I am guessing it is a waste of money.
>>
>> Not only is it a waste of money, but it will cause carbon buildup in
>> the engine over time. So basically, you're paying more to ruin your
>> engine.
>
> I was told that higher octane fuels have higher amount cleaning
> additives to prevent this. And lover sulfur contamination, the most
> destructive part. True, if the engine is not running at the correct
> temperature, it will increase deposits. Some mechanics wrote, if you
> would like to make 1/2 mil km on the same engine, you must use premium
> gasoline. (Mercedes mechanic).

That's utter nonsense if you try to apply it to all engines. Perhaps
Mercedes engines require premium fuel and if they do, you should use it.
Frankly, this sounds like VERY OLD information (50's or '60's perhaps?),
probably from an old mechanic.

> So, ELANTRA has the automatic timing build in, but it is limited to
> regular gasoline only, so the engine will fail (cannot use higher
> quality fuels) just as any regular car, it that the notion here? (We do
> not want to compete with Mecry after all .

No, that's just nonsense based on faulty information.

The problem is that higher octane fuels burn more slowly than lower
octane fuels. When you use high octane fuel in an engine designed for
lower octane, it doesn't burn completely and it creates deposits. As for
additive packages, there is little or no difference anymore between fuel
grades, so there's no advantage there. All modern fuels will keep your
engine clean, providing you're using the correct fuel to begin with. I
don't believe there's any difference in sulfur content either, as it's a
regulated pollutant (sulfur dioxide). Sulfur is more of an issue in
diesel fuels.

The computer controlled ignition timing is there to prevent knocking,
pinging and detonation in the event that poor quality fuel with a lower
than recommended octane rating is used. It does so by retarding the
timing. It will not advance the timing beyond its normal parameters if
high octane fuel is used, so there is no benefit. If you really WANT to
pay the extra money for premium fuel, you can have your ECU
re-programmed to advance the timing more and gain some horsepower in the
process, but you'll void your engine warranty. The BSEPowerchip does
this: http://www.hyundaiaccessorystore.com...Powerchip.html

The chips for the 2.0L Tiburon work in the Elantra (same engine).

> All EU high end cars use only higher octane gasolines.

That's irrelevant. If the engines are designed for premium fuel, use it.
If not, use what the manufacturer recommends. In Hyundai's case, that
means 87 octane regular unleaded.

Brian Nystrom

Brian Nystrom wrote:
> happy wrote:
>> Brian Nystrom wrote:
> If you really WANT to
> pay the extra money for premium fuel, you can have your ECU
> re-programmed to advance the timing more and gain some horsepower in the
> process, but you'll void your engine warranty. The BSEPowerchip does
> this: http://www.hyundaiaccessorystore.com...Powerchip.html
>
> The chips for the 2.0L Tiburon work in the Elantra (same engine).

There is a separate page for Elantra Powerchips:

http://www.hyundaiaccessorystore.com...Powerchip.html

Matt Whiting

happy wrote:
> Brian Nystrom wrote:
>
>> Jason wrote:
>>
>>> The manual for my 04 Sonata specifically said not to use Premium Fuel.
>>>
>>> So I am guessing it is a waste of money.
>>
>>
>> Not only is it a waste of money, but it will cause carbon buildup in
>> the engine over time. So basically, you're paying more to ruin your
>> engine.
>
>
> I was told that higher octane fuels have higher amount cleaning
> additives to prevent this. And lover sulfur contamination, the most
> destructive part. True, if the engine is not running at the correct
> temperature, it will increase deposits. Some mechanics wrote, if you
> would like to make 1/2 mil km on the same engine, you must use premium
> gasoline. (Mercedes mechanic).

The additive part was true two decades ago, but not anymore. The
statement the mechanic made is not true for all engines. It may be true
for high compression engines that really need the higher octane to avoid
detontation, but it certainly isn't true for engines designed for 87 octane.


Matt

happy

Matt Whiting wrote:
> happy wrote:
>> Brian Nystrom wrote:
>>
>>> Jason wrote:
>>>
>>>> The manual for my 04 Sonata specifically said not to use Premium Fuel.
>>>>
>>>> So I am guessing it is a waste of money.
>>>
>>>
>>> Not only is it a waste of money, but it will cause carbon buildup in
>>> the engine over time. So basically, you're paying more to ruin your
>>> engine.
>>
>>
>> I was told that higher octane fuels have higher amount cleaning
>> additives to prevent this. And lover sulfur contamination, the most
>> destructive part. True, if the engine is not running at the correct
>> temperature, it will increase deposits. Some mechanics wrote, if you
>> would like to make 1/2 mil km on the same engine, you must use premium
>> gasoline. (Mercedes mechanic).
>
> The additive part was true two decades ago, but not anymore. The
> statement the mechanic made is not true for all engines. It may be true
> for high compression engines that really need the higher octane to avoid
> detontation, but it certainly isn't true for engines designed for 87
> octane.
>
>
> Matt

"The additive part was true two decades ago, but not anymore."
CHEVRON gas station claim that premium gas have "more" Techlorin than a
regular gasoline. It this claim untrue?

Also, higher octane gasoline presents a less sulfur content due to
higher fuels (More expensive as Pentane, Hectane, Octane, alcohol etc.
All additives to increase octane ratings). This itself would increase
the engine life span. (Mechanic comment) Regular benzene (87)is an
inferior fuel by a comparison. Unfortunately, Hyundai does not utilize
this option due to the low cost targeted market. Your power and the
lifespan of the engine would be determent then by an octane rating, not
by the manufacturer.
I prefer options...............

Matt Whiting

happy wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> happy wrote:
>>
>>> Brian Nystrom wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jason wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The manual for my 04 Sonata specifically said not to use Premium Fuel.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I am guessing it is a waste of money.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not only is it a waste of money, but it will cause carbon buildup in
>>>> the engine over time. So basically, you're paying more to ruin your
>>>> engine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was told that higher octane fuels have higher amount cleaning
>>> additives to prevent this. And lover sulfur contamination, the most
>>> destructive part. True, if the engine is not running at the correct
>>> temperature, it will increase deposits. Some mechanics wrote, if you
>>> would like to make 1/2 mil km on the same engine, you must use
>>> premium gasoline. (Mercedes mechanic).
>>
>>
>> The additive part was true two decades ago, but not anymore. The
>> statement the mechanic made is not true for all engines. It may be
>> true for high compression engines that really need the higher octane
>> to avoid detontation, but it certainly isn't true for engines designed
>> for 87 octane.
>>
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> "The additive part was true two decades ago, but not anymore."
> CHEVRON gas station claim that premium gas have "more" Techlorin than a
> regular gasoline. It this claim untrue?

I rarely buy Chevron gasoline, but I've never seen this claim at a
Chevron station. They claim their gasolines with Techron (never heard
of Techlorin) clean better than other brands of gasoline, but I've not
seen a claim of their premium having more Techron than their regular.
However, this wouldn't surprise me because, as someone else posted
earlier, high octane gasolines are more prone to cause combustion
chamber deposits so it only makes sense that Chevron would add more
Techron to help mitigate this problem.



> Also, higher octane gasoline presents a less sulfur content due to
> higher fuels (More expensive as Pentane, Hectane, Octane, alcohol etc.
> All additives to increase octane ratings). This itself would increase
> the engine life span. (Mechanic comment) Regular benzene (87)is an
> inferior fuel by a comparison. Unfortunately, Hyundai does not utilize
> this option due to the low cost targeted market. Your power and the
> lifespan of the engine would be determent then by an octane rating, not
> by the manufacturer.
> I prefer options...............

Personally, I prefer good information more than options. You are
getting bad information. Don't take my word for it. Search around on
your own. The information is plentiful. Here's just one sample I found
in less than 5 seconds.

http://chemistry.about.com/library/w...abyb100401.htm

happy

Matt Whiting wrote:
> happy wrote:
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>> happy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brian Nystrom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jason wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The manual for my 04 Sonata specifically said not to use Premium
>>>>>> Fuel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I am guessing it is a waste of money.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not only is it a waste of money, but it will cause carbon buildup
>>>>> in the engine over time. So basically, you're paying more to ruin
>>>>> your engine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was told that higher octane fuels have higher amount cleaning
>>>> additives to prevent this. And lover sulfur contamination, the most
>>>> destructive part. True, if the engine is not running at the correct
>>>> temperature, it will increase deposits. Some mechanics wrote, if you
>>>> would like to make 1/2 mil km on the same engine, you must use
>>>> premium gasoline. (Mercedes mechanic).
>>>
>>>
>>> The additive part was true two decades ago, but not anymore. The
>>> statement the mechanic made is not true for all engines. It may be
>>> true for high compression engines that really need the higher octane
>>> to avoid detontation, but it certainly isn't true for engines
>>> designed for 87 octane.
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>>
>> "The additive part was true two decades ago, but not anymore."
>> CHEVRON gas station claim that premium gas have "more" Techlorin than
>> a regular gasoline. It this claim untrue?
>
> I rarely buy Chevron gasoline, but I've never seen this claim at a
> Chevron station. They claim their gasolines with Techron (never heard
> of Techlorin) clean better than other brands of gasoline, but I've not
> seen a claim of their premium having more Techron than their regular.
> However, this wouldn't surprise me because, as someone else posted
> earlier, high octane gasolines are more prone to cause combustion
> chamber deposits so it only makes sense that Chevron would add more
> Techron to help mitigate this problem.
>
>
>
>> Also, higher octane gasoline presents a less sulfur content due to
>> higher fuels (More expensive as Pentane, Hectane, Octane, alcohol etc.
>> All additives to increase octane ratings). This itself would increase
>> the engine life span. (Mechanic comment) Regular benzene (87)is an
>> inferior fuel by a comparison. Unfortunately, Hyundai does not utilize
>> this option due to the low cost targeted market. Your power and the
>> lifespan of the engine would be determent then by an octane rating,
>> not by the manufacturer.
>> I prefer options...............
>
> Personally, I prefer good information more than options. You are
> getting bad information. Don't take my word for it. Search around on
> your own. The information is plentiful. Here's just one sample I found
> in less than 5 seconds.
>
> http://chemistry.about.com/library/w...abyb100401.htm

I have searched for years and found nothing, more articles just like the
link above. All abstract talk, no formulas, no real manufacturers. It
does not even address the sulfur contaminants, or describe who really
make a good low octane gasoline. (No, there are not all the same). All
talks we all already know. Rule of thumb, a good information do not come
from the Internet, but from the mechanic who fix the car every day. And
he got no time to write about it, because he is fixing it.
Of course, the exception is the "HYUDNAI mechanic" helping us here.

For example, please help me to find which gasoline manufacturer has the
lowest and which highest sulfur content? The real engine and
environmental killer.

PMDR

In my area, nearly all the assorted national and local gasoline chains
pull their fuel from the exact same tank farm. The fuel comes in from
ONE pipeline. If there was any difference at the refinery, it's become
generic gasoline by the time it reaches the tanks.

Chevron, BP, Quik Trip, Phillips 66, Sams Club/Walmart, Costco, and
countless others all pull gas from the same place. I see the trucks
every day. The ONLY difference is the name on the side of the tanker
truck, which sometimes have no names at all just to keep it
interesting.

Some of these trucks carry their load to other terminals where it gets
put into tanks again, remixed with other tanker loads, and sent out
again sometimes in brand-name trucks, which have absolutely nothing to
do with the brand of fuel inside. It's just generic gasoline.

Given that the fuel is more or less the same, I pay little attention to
price (some people obsess about saving 10 cents a fill. A dime is not
worth a bother imo) and pay MUCH more attention to whether the gas
station maintains their pumps and tanks, whether they seem to actively
worry about water seeping in, whether the apron is filthy or not, and
so on.

The fuel can be 5-star perfect name brand ultra octane stuff but it's
going to be worthless junk if it's full of water because some fleabag
gas station couldn't be bothered to monitor their quality. Given how
little stations make selling gas, quality is often the last thing they
worry about.

Drivers also sabotage themselves by letting their cars run down to near
empty before refilling. Super fuel is not going to help with that
either.


happy wrote:

> For example, please help me to find which gasoline manufacturer has the
> lowest and which highest sulfur content? The real engine and
> environmental killer.

Edwin Pawlowski

"happy" <happy@camper.com> wrote in message
> I have searched for years and found nothing, more articles just like the
> link above. All abstract talk, no formulas, no real manufacturers. It does
> not even address the sulfur contaminants, or describe who really make a
> good low octane gasoline. (No, there are not all the same). All talks we
> all already know. Rule of thumb, a good information do not come from the
> Internet, but from the mechanic who fix the car every day. And he got no
> time to write about it, because he is fixing it.
> Of course, the exception is the "HYUDNAI mechanic" helping us here.
>
> For example, please help me to find which gasoline manufacturer has the
> lowest and which highest sulfur content? The real engine and environmental
> killer.

The sulfur content has more to do with the crude than the brand. Since all
the refineries take from different wells at different times, it is not
possible to say a particular brand is exactly the same nation wide. Aside
from that, the gas in the tank is not always from the refinery whose name is
on the sign.

A very few people say they can tell the difference, but I never cold. Over
the years, I may have had a tank or two that did not seem up to snuff, but
going back to the same station a couple of weeks later, no problem. I buy
where it is convenient and the price reasonable. Not worth driving 20 miles
to save two cents a gallon.

Matt Whiting

happy wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> happy wrote:
>>
>>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>>
>>>> happy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Brian Nystrom wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The manual for my 04 Sonata specifically said not to use Premium
>>>>>>> Fuel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I am guessing it is a waste of money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not only is it a waste of money, but it will cause carbon buildup
>>>>>> in the engine over time. So basically, you're paying more to ruin
>>>>>> your engine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was told that higher octane fuels have higher amount cleaning
>>>>> additives to prevent this. And lover sulfur contamination, the most
>>>>> destructive part. True, if the engine is not running at the correct
>>>>> temperature, it will increase deposits. Some mechanics wrote, if
>>>>> you would like to make 1/2 mil km on the same engine, you must use
>>>>> premium gasoline. (Mercedes mechanic).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The additive part was true two decades ago, but not anymore. The
>>>> statement the mechanic made is not true for all engines. It may be
>>>> true for high compression engines that really need the higher octane
>>>> to avoid detontation, but it certainly isn't true for engines
>>>> designed for 87 octane.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "The additive part was true two decades ago, but not anymore."
>>> CHEVRON gas station claim that premium gas have "more" Techlorin than
>>> a regular gasoline. It this claim untrue?
>>
>>
>> I rarely buy Chevron gasoline, but I've never seen this claim at a
>> Chevron station. They claim their gasolines with Techron (never heard
>> of Techlorin) clean better than other brands of gasoline, but I've not
>> seen a claim of their premium having more Techron than their regular.
>> However, this wouldn't surprise me because, as someone else posted
>> earlier, high octane gasolines are more prone to cause combustion
>> chamber deposits so it only makes sense that Chevron would add more
>> Techron to help mitigate this problem.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Also, higher octane gasoline presents a less sulfur content due to
>>> higher fuels (More expensive as Pentane, Hectane, Octane, alcohol
>>> etc. All additives to increase octane ratings). This itself would
>>> increase the engine life span. (Mechanic comment) Regular benzene
>>> (87)is an inferior fuel by a comparison. Unfortunately, Hyundai does
>>> not utilize this option due to the low cost targeted market. Your
>>> power and the lifespan of the engine would be determent then by an
>>> octane rating, not by the manufacturer.
>>> I prefer options...............
>>
>>
>> Personally, I prefer good information more than options. You are
>> getting bad information. Don't take my word for it. Search around on
>> your own. The information is plentiful. Here's just one sample I
>> found in less than 5 seconds.
>>
>> http://chemistry.about.com/library/w...abyb100401.htm
>
>
> I have searched for years and found nothing, more articles just like the
> link above. All abstract talk, no formulas, no real manufacturers. It
> does not even address the sulfur contaminants, or describe who really
> make a good low octane gasoline. (No, there are not all the same). All
> talks we all already know. Rule of thumb, a good information do not come
> from the Internet, but from the mechanic who fix the car every day. And
> he got no time to write about it, because he is fixing it.
> Of course, the exception is the "HYUDNAI mechanic" helping us here.
>
> For example, please help me to find which gasoline manufacturer has the
> lowest and which highest sulfur content? The real engine and
> environmental killer.

You can believe whomever you choose. If you believe a mechanic knows
more about gasoline chemistry and engine combustion than the chemists
and engineers, that is your call.

It is becoming more apparent that your real mission here is to make a
political statement about sulphur content of gasolines than to know what
is best for your engine.

Matt

Matt Whiting

PMDR wrote:

> Drivers also sabotage themselves by letting their cars run down to near
> empty before refilling. Super fuel is not going to help with that
> either.

How so?

Brian Nystrom

Matt Whiting wrote:
> PMDR wrote:
>
>> Drivers also sabotage themselves by letting their cars run down to near
>> empty before refilling. Super fuel is not going to help with that
>> either.
>
> How so?

I think he's referring the the problem of water accumulation in the
tank. With the new MTBE-free fuels containing 10% ethanol, it's no
longer a problem as you effectively have "dry gas" added to every tankful.