Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
By Andrew Colton
ABCNEWS.com

F O R T L A U D E R D A L E, Fla., June 23, 2004— Hyundai Motor
Company admits that its most popular vehicle has a serious airbag flaw
that it doesn't know how to fix.

The problem, in the company's 2004 Elantra, is a sensor system
intended to prevent the airbag from deploying while a child sits in
the front seat. But it's also preventing the airbag from activating
for adults who weigh less than roughly 150 pounds and don't position
themselves in the center of the chair.

"I'm worried. I'm seriously concerned that this isn't a safe car,"
said Charlotte Kramer, 28, a hairdresser from Fort Lauderdale who
purchased her 2004 Elantra late last year. "It's a risk every time
someone sits in the car as to whether their passenger side airbag is
going to be activated or not."

Kramer became concerned when she saw a warning light appear on her
dashboard that read: "Passenger Airbag Off." The light stayed on when
an adult weighing less than 150 pounds sat in the passenger seat
off-center — meaning that the airbag would not deploy for the
passenger in the event of an accident.

Kramer sought help at the dealership where she purchased the car. But
she was told there's no way to fix the problem, which could mean the
airbag would not have deployed in an accident.

Mike Anson, a Hyundai spokesman, said the only thing passengers not
heavy enough to activate the airbag can do now is sit somewhere else.

"Either move to the back seat or move to another Hyundai vehicle," he
said.

Complicated Instructions

In a technical service bulletin obtained by ABC News, Hyundai advises
service technicians to tell customers to try the following in an
attempt to activate the airbag: "Turn the vehicle off, place the seat
back in the full upright position, sit upright in the seat, centered
on the seat cushion, with legs comfortably extended. Restart the
vehicle and have the person remain in this position for about 30
seconds."

Agreeing that the instructions may be a bit too much for many
customers to remember, Anson suggested that new customers take his
company's cars for a long test drive before making a purchase.

"Before you buy the vehicle, put the people in the front passenger who
will be in there to make sure they're compatible," he said. "That way
you won't have a problem."

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which now requires
some new cars to use a sensor system for passenger-side airbags, is
investigating Hyundai's problem and response. They said they need to
investigate more before determining whether there's a need for a
recall of the vehicles.

Hyundai said it has sold 50,000 2004 Elantras.

Re: Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

"George" <_george@excite.com> wrote in message
news:b411569f.0406231339.7f5cdf0e@posting.google.c om...
> Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
> By Andrew Colton
> ABCNEWS.com
>
> F O R T L A U D E R D A L E, Fla., June 23, 2004- Hyundai Motor
> Company admits that its most popular vehicle has a serious airbag flaw
> that it doesn't know how to fix.
>
> The problem, in the company's 2004 Elantra, is a sensor system
> intended to prevent the airbag from deploying while a child sits in
> the front seat. But it's also preventing the airbag from activating
> for adults who weigh less than roughly 150 pounds and don't position
> themselves in the center of the chair.
>

That's a problem? They should leave it alone. The way it is, it will
probably SAVE many lives. Too many lives are being lost in low-speed
collisions where the airbag removes the head of smaller adults. If you're
less than 150 pounds, it would probably be safer to sit in the back seat so
you don't get your head blown off in a minor collision. That is, unless you
own an Elantra. Then you apparently are safe no matter where you
it. -Dave

Re: Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

George wrote:

> Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem

blah, blah, blah...

cant satisfy the safety nazis.

Re: Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

> That's a problem? They should leave it alone. The way it is, it will
> probably SAVE many lives. Too many lives are being lost in low-speed
> collisions where the airbag removes the head of smaller adults.

bullshit. unfortunately,we will never know about all the countless kids
who have been saved, even when in the front seat, unbelted, etc.

if you want to really be safe, put your kid in the back seat.

Re: Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

"George" <_george@excite.com> wrote in message
news:b411569f.0406231339.7f5cdf0e@posting.google.c om...
> Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem

I believe if you RTFM it tells you that you need to be centered in the seat
to activate the bags.
But, in this non-reading society, I guess that it is too much to ask.

Re: Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

In article <b411569f.0406231339.7f5cdf0e@posting.google.com >,
_george@excite.com says...
>Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
>By Andrew Colton
>ABCNEWS.com
>F O R T L A U D E R D A L E, Fla., June 23, 2004— Hyundai Motor
>Company admits that its most popular vehicle has a serious airbag flaw
>that it doesn't know how to fix.
> The problem, in the company's 2004 Elantra, is a sensor system
>intended to prevent the airbag from deploying while a child sits in
>the front seat. But it's also preventing the airbag from activating
>for adults who weigh less than roughly 150 pounds and don't position
>themselves in the center of the chair.

the government is partially to blame for allowing these killer airbags
in the first place. They designed them to restrain unbelted adult males
of average size. That means anyone smaller is probably going to be
injured instead of helped by the air bag. This pretty stupid since they are
supposed to be supplemental restraints, not primary.
-------------
Alex

Re: Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

In article <2juj91F163sp8U1@uni-berlin.de>, mdupre@sff.net says...

>That's a problem?

Of course it is. If the stupid things were not designed to restrain
unbelted males of average size they would not be killing smaller persons.

>They should leave it alone. The way it is, it will
>probably SAVE many lives.

No, it will probalby kill smaller passengers who are wearing their seat
belts. Air bags don't save lives, seatbelts do. They might lessen injuries,
but the seatbelt is what does most of the restraining. I'll take a good
seat belt over an airbag any day.

>Too many lives are being lost in low-speed
>collisions where the airbag removes the head of smaller adults. If you're
>less than 150 pounds, it would probably be safer to sit in the back seat so
>you don't get your head blown off in a minor collision.

Sure, can you explain how to drive from the back seat? The real stupidity
is that there is no easy way to disable the airbags in your car. If you want
to disable them you have to jump through hoops and pay large amounts of
money.
----------
Alex

Re: Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

I just can't believe that you're all siding with Hyundai. Their
system is defective and probably won't deploy if an under 150 lb
passenger is in the seat. We all have kids and relatives (and maybe
spounses) who weigh less than that. Come on - Hyundai goofed big
time. I only hope it's fixed before people die. Yes, the defective
design may save someone, just like not wearing a seatbelt sometimes
saves someone. But by and large, an air bag deploying as expected can
be a real God-send.




>Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
>By Andrew Colton
>ABCNEWS.com
>
>F O R T L A U D E R D A L E, Fla., June 23, 2004— Hyundai Motor
>Company admits that its most popular vehicle has a serious airbag flaw
>that it doesn't know how to fix.
>
> The problem, in the company's 2004 Elantra, is a sensor system
>intended to prevent the airbag from deploying while a child sits in
>the front seat. But it's also preventing the airbag from activating
>for adults who weigh less than roughly 150 pounds and don't position
>themselves in the center of the chair.
>
>"I'm worried. I'm seriously concerned that this isn't a safe car,"
>said Charlotte Kramer, 28, a hairdresser from Fort Lauderdale who
>purchased her 2004 Elantra late last year. "It's a risk every time
>someone sits in the car as to whether their passenger side airbag is
>going to be activated or not."
>
>Kramer became concerned when she saw a warning light appear on her
>dashboard that read: "Passenger Airbag Off." The light stayed on when
>an adult weighing less than 150 pounds sat in the passenger seat
>off-center — meaning that the airbag would not deploy for the
>passenger in the event of an accident.
>
>Kramer sought help at the dealership where she purchased the car. But
>she was told there's no way to fix the problem, which could mean the
>airbag would not have deployed in an accident.
>
>Mike Anson, a Hyundai spokesman, said the only thing passengers not
>heavy enough to activate the airbag can do now is sit somewhere else.
>
>"Either move to the back seat or move to another Hyundai vehicle," he
>said.
>
>Complicated Instructions
>
>In a technical service bulletin obtained by ABC News, Hyundai advises
>service technicians to tell customers to try the following in an
>attempt to activate the airbag: "Turn the vehicle off, place the seat
>back in the full upright position, sit upright in the seat, centered
>on the seat cushion, with legs comfortably extended. Restart the
>vehicle and have the person remain in this position for about 30
>seconds."
>
>Agreeing that the instructions may be a bit too much for many
>customers to remember, Anson suggested that new customers take his
>company's cars for a long test drive before making a purchase.
>
>"Before you buy the vehicle, put the people in the front passenger who
>will be in there to make sure they're compatible," he said. "That way
>you won't have a problem."
>
>The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which now requires
>some new cars to use a sensor system for passenger-side airbags, is
>investigating Hyundai's problem and response. They said they need to
>investigate more before determining whether there's a need for a
>recall of the vehicles.
>
>Hyundai said it has sold 50,000 2004 Elantras.

Re: Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, SoCalMike wrote:

> > That's a problem? They should leave it alone. The way it is, it will
> > probably SAVE many lives. Too many lives are being lost in low-speed
> > collisions where the airbag removes the head of smaller adults.
>
> bullshit.

Nope. True and documented.

> unfortunately,we will never know about all the countless kids
> who have been saved, even when in the front seat, unbelted, etc.

Er...no such kids exist. US-spec airbags, even the later-model "depowered"
ones, are required to be calibrated so as to "save" a 50th-percentile
(size and weight) adult male UNbelted test dummy. The force and speed
required to do that job are absolutely incompatible with "saving unbelted
kids". It just doesn't happen.

Having an opinion is fine, but when you express an ignorant and uninformed
one like "Countless kids have been saved by airbags", your opinion doesn't
count for anything and you just expose yourself to ridicule.

-DS

Re: Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Alex Rodriguez wrote:

> The real stupidity is that there is no easy way to disable the airbags
> in your car. If you want to disable them you have to jump through hoops
> and pay large amounts of money.

Don't know where you get that idea. I've disabled the airbags in several
cars and it's never been very difficult or taken more than an hour or so
and basic hand tools.

DS

Re: Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

"Alex Rodriguez" <adr5@columbia.edu> wrote in message
news:cbdh17$st2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu...
> In article <b411569f.0406231339.7f5cdf0e@posting.google.com >,
> _george@excite.com says...
> >Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
> >By Andrew Colton
> >ABCNEWS.com
> >F O R T L A U D E R D A L E, Fla., June 23, 2004- Hyundai Motor
> >Company admits that its most popular vehicle has a serious airbag
flaw
> >that it doesn't know how to fix.
> > The problem, in the company's 2004 Elantra, is a sensor system
> >intended to prevent the airbag from deploying while a child sits in
> >the front seat. But it's also preventing the airbag from activating
> >for adults who weigh less than roughly 150 pounds and don't position
> >themselves in the center of the chair.
>
> the government is partially to blame for allowing these killer airbags
> in the first place. They designed them to restrain unbelted adult
males
> of average size. That means anyone smaller is probably going to be
> injured instead of helped by the air bag. This pretty stupid since
they are
> supposed to be supplemental restraints, not primary.
> -------------
> Alex

They were designed to be the primary restraint when the reluctant US
public could not be coerced into using seat belts and the government was
too spineless to mandate them.
Countries with compulsory sear bealts use less powerful air bags so as
to save the small adults although they insist children should be seated
in the back.
--
John G

Wot's Your Real Problem?

Re: Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, John G wrote:

> They were designed to be the primary restraint when the reluctant US
> public could not be coerced into using seat belts and the government was
> too spineless to mandate them.

The above is mostly correct. Airbags as implemented in North America are
indeed designed as primary restraints for exactly the reason you state:
Too many US vehicle occupants are too stupid or wrongheaded ("blah blah my
rights blah blah") to wear their seat belts. Joan Claybrook was the
impetus behind the US airbag mandate, and for many years she crowed about
how airbags would replace seat belts and so forth. The first cars in the
US to come with airbags ('74-'77 full-size GM cars) came *WITHOUT* front
seat belts.

Airbags as properly implemented (Australia is the best example, Europe
second best) are truly *secondary* restraints. They prevent injury, never
cause it, and leave the majority of the lifesaving job where it belongs:
with the seat belt.

Unfortunately, the "SRS" (Supplemental Restraint System) or "SIR"
(Supplemental Inflatable Restraint) language that's been applied to
airbags in an effort to get people to continue buckling up has fooled a
great many people into not understanding that despite the "secondary" part
of the name, North American airbags are badly mis-designed as primary
restraints.

DS

Re: Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@engin.umich.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0406232334230.15951@alumni.engi n.umich.edu...
> On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Alex Rodriguez wrote:
>
> > The real stupidity is that there is no easy way to disable the airbags
> > in your car. If you want to disable them you have to jump through hoops
> > and pay large amounts of money.
>
> Don't know where you get that idea. I've disabled the airbags in several
> cars and it's never been very difficult or taken more than an hour or so
> and basic hand tools.
>
> DS

Plus a two-ohm resistor in my '03 Ford e-150 van. The resistor was placed in
the socket where the airbomb was to fool the airbomb controller into
thinking that the airbomb was still installed. This was necessary because
the same sensor loop that triggers the airbombs also triggers the explosives
inside the seat-belt pretensioners.

Seat belt pretensioners are a legitimate safety device while airbombs are
not.

airbomb = correct name for airbag.

Re: Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

>>unfortunately,we will never know about all the countless kids
>>who have been saved, even when in the front seat, unbelted, etc.
>
>
> Er...no such kids exist.

yes, they do. you dont hear about them, because they are the ones that
walk away without injury.

basically, what youre saying is that every child in every car in every
accident is injured by the airbag. and thats wrong.

Re: Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem
 

Well, it appears that ABC overhyped the issue in it's typical style.
First off, if the airbag isn't on, there's a clear indication on the
dash. Secondly, it's not as big of an issue as they make it seem. My
girlfriend weighs a whopping 115 pounds and the only time the airbag
doesn't activate is if she has her feet up or is sitting with her legs
crossed. It's not an issue at any other time.

This is a classic case of a lawsuit induced problem. If idiots didn't
put their kids in the front seats then sue when they get injured or
killed by an airbag, weight sensors wouldn't be necessary.

My EGT is the first car I've owned with airbags and frankly I wouldn't
care if it didn't have them. I always wear a seatbelt, but other than
that, I'm not a big believer in passive safety.