Jim Vatunz

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 03:46:33 GMT, theta00k@yahoo.com wrote:

>In article <sd2qj0p467p56a840d6cu0vedorbdue2c3@4ax.com>, Jim Vatunz <rot13.snezrewvz@vvarg.arg.nh> wrote:
>>On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 00:08:48 GMT, theta00k@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>In article <r1npj05shb9l1eg0se6oj19ho5ks988ib3@4ax.com>, Jim Vatunz
>> <rot13.snezrewvz@vvarg.arg.nh> wrote:
>>>>On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 21:21:11 GMT, theta00k@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <b417add68e7cf64cf7eca1fa87143e08@localhost.talkab outautos.com>,
>>>> "hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>Hyundai did not use the best quality parts in their vehicles into the mid
>>>>>>nineties. Most managers were rewarded for price shopping suppliers. I'd
>>>>>
>>>>>Mid-nineties...dude, most current parts suppliers are the same as the ones
>>>>>used in that time frame.
>>>>>
>>>>>>say most warranty repairs were for synchronizer issues (a direct
>>>>>>translation of surface machining precision) and later repairs were mostly
>>>>>>for bearing issues. The good news is that on the last transmission I
>>>>>
>>>>>WTF is this??
>>>>>No right-minded auto manufacturer including Hyundai would pay for internal
>>>>>repair.
>>>>>There's a set procedure for determining whether an abnormal condition stems
>>>>>from an internal failure.
>>>>>If it is shot internally, the transmission is replaced.
>>>>>
>>>>>You wouldn't know what has failed inside.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hyundai only pays for valve body repair and replacement of the transmission
>>>>>assembly.
>>>>>
>>>>>Is "synchro" inside a valve body, Mr. "Hyundai tech"??
>>>>>
>>>>>Besides, most techs, including you "hyundai tech" I bet, don't have a clue
>>>>>on how the auto tranny works let alone overhauling and fixing the innards.
>>>>>
>>>>>Are you telling me you did a WARRANTY repair on a Hyundai transmission
>>>>>involving an overhaul???
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>BTW, do you know who makes the synchros and bearings?
>>>>>
>>>>>>disassembled, it is evident that Hyundai is making further strides to
>>>>>>improve bearing durability by installing devices to keep the debris away
>>>>>>from the bearings.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you really knew what you're talking about, you would know that the
>> critical
>>>>
>>>>>parts like bearings used in the Hyundai transmissions are from the same
>>>>>companies that supply major auto manufacturers...It's been like that from
>>>>>the beginning...ever heard of NTN?
>>>>>
>>>>>Many service parts are made-in-Korea..., that has not changed, I'm not
>>>>>suggesting they have somewhat inferior quality, but for OE parts, there's no
>>
>>>>>compromise...
>>>>>
>>>>>>One of the reasons early Hyundai transmissions were so crappy was that
>>>>>>they were building Mitsubishi transmissions that already had questionable
>>>>>>design. The Mitsu autos would tend to last about 70k miles, but the
>>>>>>Hyundai counterparts only about 35k miles or so. In many countries, this
>>>>>
>>>>>WTF?? Do you know what parts fail most inside the automatic transmissions
>> made
>>>>
>>>>>by Hyundai? I'm talking about the internal, mechanical failures.
>>>>>
>>>>>>isn't a big deal because people there don't drive as much as we do in the
>>>>>>U.S. It was with U.S. sales that Hyundai began to learn that they were
>>>>>>having a problem. One of the more sobering findings was that Hyundai was
>>>>>>purchasing low cost machinery for manufacture that needed to be rebuilt
>>>>>>every 10k units or so (rather than better machinery for a more suitable
>>>>>>unit load like 50k). Then they would run it for 20k to 30k units and
>>>>>>throw it away.
>>>>>
>>>>>Huh? how the did you come up with those figures??
>>>>> every 10k units?? 20 to 30K?
>>>>>
>>>>>>Back to the cost reward. The corporate managers saw this
>>>>>>as a savings not realizing what laid in store for their future. The
>>>>>>result in this country was about 1/3 of the auto transmissions lasting
>>>>>>until 70k miles or so, but the other 2/3 crapping out around 30k to 40k
>>>>>>miles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I haven't yet seen the departure from decreased quality due to part cost
>>>>>>savings that I'd like to see. You're right that they're heading in the
>>>>>>right direction; I just think they need a little more.
>>>>>
>>>>>Right direction?
>>>>>You said Hyundai's reliability has improved...how is that possible with
>>>>>increasing use of CHEAPER domestic parts?
>>>>>
>>>>>Can't wait what kind of reply I would get from this lying piece of .
>>>>
>>>>You can probably expect a good one.
>>>>Why would Hyundai have a bulletin listing the parts and labour time
>>>>involved in the syncroniser replacement if they didn't expect the
>>>>dealer to do it?
>>>
>>>What in the hell? What bulletin? Gimme the TSB number.
>>
>>try 01-40-001-1
>
>That one is about MANUAL transmission.. Nothing to do with any failure of
>transmission.
>
>>>
>>>>You don't have to be a rocket scientist to observe measures that
>>>>Hyundai are taking to prevent crud entering their bearings, when you
>>>
>>>Oh I LOVE TO KNOW what that part is. You know the thingy he discovered? Do you
>>
>>>know the exact name and part number?
>>
>>why would it need a part number it could be as simple as a redesign of
>>the casting.
>>>
>>>>have the box in pieces on the workbench. Perhaps you should have read
>>>
>>>Workbench my ***. There's no new car dealer service deapartment in this
>>>world that have a facility for overhauling automatic transmissions.
>>>Do you have any clue what it takes to overhaul, find a faulty part, replace
>>>the clutches and bands AND put all those internal parts back in?
>>
>>how many automatic boxes have syncros in them? Surely Hyundai trust
>>their servicemen with manual boxes?
>
>yeah right, he was talking about manual tranny all along....
>Search the Google newsgroup archive to see how many posts were about manual
>transmission failure. You'll find only ONE from this "Bad Moon" dude a couple
>of years back.
>
>Check these sites also to see if Hyundai manual gear boxes were really that
>unreliable in the mid-90's.
>http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/
>http://autos.msn.com/home/reliabilit....aspx?src=URES
>
>
Aha, the penny dropped.
I'd believe it if someone told me that Hyundai's gearboxes were a
weakpoint. My Accent's box can be quite grumbly about 1st-2nd changes
at times. When it behaves like that i just double declutch changing
gears. I'm never in much of a hurry so no great problem, next oil
change i may try something else to see if it helps.

I have a webcam in the tropics
http://ii.net/~farmerjim/

Terry & Patricia Swinamer

He must own company shares or something..........They are still making
Shi**y cars. End of story.
<theta00k@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:chikce$o0u2_038@west.earthlink.net...
> In article
> <b417add68e7cf64cf7eca1fa87143e08@localhost.talkab outautos.com>,
> "hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Hyundai did not use the best quality parts in their vehicles into the mid
>>nineties. Most managers were rewarded for price shopping suppliers. I'd
>
> Mid-nineties...dude, most current parts suppliers are the same as the
> ones
> used in that time frame.
>
>>say most warranty repairs were for synchronizer issues (a direct
>>translation of surface machining precision) and later repairs were mostly
>>for bearing issues. The good news is that on the last transmission I
>
> WTF is this??
> No right-minded auto manufacturer including Hyundai would pay for internal
> repair.
> There's a set procedure for determining whether an abnormal condition
> stems
> from an internal failure.
> If it is shot internally, the transmission is replaced.
>
> You wouldn't know what has failed inside.
>
> Hyundai only pays for valve body repair and replacement of the
> transmission
> assembly.
>
> Is "synchro" inside a valve body, Mr. "Hyundai tech"??
>
> Besides, most techs, including you "hyundai tech" I bet, don't have a clue
> on how the auto tranny works let alone overhauling and fixing the innards.
>
> Are you telling me you did a WARRANTY repair on a Hyundai transmission
> involving an overhaul???
>
>
>
> BTW, do you know who makes the synchros and bearings?
>
>>disassembled, it is evident that Hyundai is making further strides to
>>improve bearing durability by installing devices to keep the debris away
>>from the bearings.
>
> If you really knew what you're talking about, you would know that the
> critical
> parts like bearings used in the Hyundai transmissions are from the same
> companies that supply major auto manufacturers...It's been like that from
> the beginning...ever heard of NTN?
>
> Many service parts are made-in-Korea..., that has not changed, I'm not
> suggesting they have somewhat inferior quality, but for OE parts, there's
> no
> compromise...
>
>>One of the reasons early Hyundai transmissions were so crappy was that
>>they were building Mitsubishi transmissions that already had questionable
>>design. The Mitsu autos would tend to last about 70k miles, but the
>>Hyundai counterparts only about 35k miles or so. In many countries, this
>
> WTF?? Do you know what parts fail most inside the automatic transmissions
> made
> by Hyundai? I'm talking about the internal, mechanical failures.
>
>>isn't a big deal because people there don't drive as much as we do in the
>>U.S. It was with U.S. sales that Hyundai began to learn that they were
>>having a problem. One of the more sobering findings was that Hyundai was
>>purchasing low cost machinery for manufacture that needed to be rebuilt
>>every 10k units or so (rather than better machinery for a more suitable
>>unit load like 50k). Then they would run it for 20k to 30k units and
>>throw it away.
>
> Huh? how the did you come up with those figures??
> every 10k units?? 20 to 30K?
>
>>Back to the cost reward. The corporate managers saw this
>>as a savings not realizing what laid in store for their future. The
>>result in this country was about 1/3 of the auto transmissions lasting
>>until 70k miles or so, but the other 2/3 crapping out around 30k to 40k
>>miles.
>>
>>I haven't yet seen the departure from decreased quality due to part cost
>>savings that I'd like to see. You're right that they're heading in the
>>right direction; I just think they need a little more.
>
> Right direction?
> You said Hyundai's reliability has improved...how is that possible with
> increasing use of CHEAPER domestic parts?
>
> Can't wait what kind of reply I would get from this lying piece of .

GP

"Terry & Patricia Swinamer" <tpswinamer@bwr.eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:PdN0d.66671$vO1.343007@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> He must own company shares or something..........They are still making
> Shi**y cars. End of story.
> <theta00k@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:chikce$o0u2_038@west.earthlink.net...
> > In article
> > <b417add68e7cf64cf7eca1fa87143e08@localhost.talkab outautos.com>,
> > "hyundaitech" <howitsac@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>Hyundai did not use the best quality parts in their vehicles into the
mid
> >>nineties. Most managers were rewarded for price shopping suppliers.
I'd
> >
> > Mid-nineties...dude, most current parts suppliers are the same as the
> > ones
> > used in that time frame.
> >
> >>say most warranty repairs were for synchronizer issues (a direct
> >>translation of surface machining precision) and later repairs were
mostly
> >>for bearing issues. The good news is that on the last transmission I
> >
> > WTF is this??
> > No right-minded auto manufacturer including Hyundai would pay for
internal
> > repair.
> > There's a set procedure for determining whether an abnormal condition
> > stems
> > from an internal failure.
> > If it is shot internally, the transmission is replaced.
> >
> > You wouldn't know what has failed inside.
> >
> > Hyundai only pays for valve body repair and replacement of the
> > transmission
> > assembly.
> >
> > Is "synchro" inside a valve body, Mr. "Hyundai tech"??
> >
> > Besides, most techs, including you "hyundai tech" I bet, don't have a
clue
> > on how the auto tranny works let alone overhauling and fixing the
innards.
> >
> > Are you telling me you did a WARRANTY repair on a Hyundai transmission
> > involving an overhaul???
> >
> >
> >
> > BTW, do you know who makes the synchros and bearings?
> >
> >>disassembled, it is evident that Hyundai is making further strides to
> >>improve bearing durability by installing devices to keep the debris away
> >>from the bearings.
> >
> > If you really knew what you're talking about, you would know that the
> > critical
> > parts like bearings used in the Hyundai transmissions are from the same
> > companies that supply major auto manufacturers...It's been like that
from
> > the beginning...ever heard of NTN?
> >
> > Many service parts are made-in-Korea..., that has not changed, I'm not
> > suggesting they have somewhat inferior quality, but for OE parts,
there's
> > no
> > compromise...
> >
> >>One of the reasons early Hyundai transmissions were so crappy was that
> >>they were building Mitsubishi transmissions that already had
questionable
> >>design. The Mitsu autos would tend to last about 70k miles, but the
> >>Hyundai counterparts only about 35k miles or so. In many countries,
this
> >
> > WTF?? Do you know what parts fail most inside the automatic
transmissions
> > made
> > by Hyundai? I'm talking about the internal, mechanical failures.
> >
> >>isn't a big deal because people there don't drive as much as we do in
the
> >>U.S. It was with U.S. sales that Hyundai began to learn that they were
> >>having a problem. One of the more sobering findings was that Hyundai
was
> >>purchasing low cost machinery for manufacture that needed to be rebuilt
> >>every 10k units or so (rather than better machinery for a more suitable
> >>unit load like 50k). Then they would run it for 20k to 30k units and
> >>throw it away.
> >
> > Huh? how the did you come up with those figures??
> > every 10k units?? 20 to 30K?
> >
> >>Back to the cost reward. The corporate managers saw this
> >>as a savings not realizing what laid in store for their future. The
> >>result in this country was about 1/3 of the auto transmissions lasting
> >>until 70k miles or so, but the other 2/3 crapping out around 30k to 40k
> >>miles.
> >>
> >>I haven't yet seen the departure from decreased quality due to part cost
> >>savings that I'd like to see. You're right that they're heading in the
> >>right direction; I just think they need a little more.
> >
> > Right direction?
> > You said Hyundai's reliability has improved...how is that possible with
> > increasing use of CHEAPER domestic parts?
> >
> > Can't wait what kind of reply I would get from this lying piece of .
-----------------
I ran 3 companies supplying close tolerance parts to the big 3 and some
offshore Manufactures. The company that shops most by price and not quality
is GM. Ford is better but not by much. The offshore Companies are much more
intersested in quality.
Geoff.
>
>

Brian Nystrom

GP wrote:

> I ran 3 companies supplying close tolerance parts to the big 3 and some
> offshore Manufactures. The company that shops most by price and not quality
> is GM. Ford is better but not by much. The offshore Companies are much more
> intersested in quality.
> Geoff.

No surprise there.

While there will always be occasional problematic vehicles, Hyundai
quality is now as good as Honda and Toyota, according to J.D. Power.
They have an outstanding warranty, but more importantly, I've found that
Hyundai USA has a strong commitment to customer satisfaction. While
individual dealers vary in their competence and policies, the company
stands behind their cars. I'm fortunate to have a good, honest dealer as
well, if I ever need their service or support. If you have problems with
your car or with your dealer, take it up with corporate. You'll be
pleasantly surprised.

Robert Cohen

to--quality control/tolerance person

of course, anything is easier said on the net than is actually easily
accomplishable:

if i was you:

take notes, document/prove/photocopy as much as you possibly can

then--after you retire, or whenever--i truly think you have a thesis/book about
the industry--domestic/foreign

p.s. wouldn't it be fun to be on tv (hi mom, hi kids), and to be questioned by
smartass newspaper reporters

well, maybe not, publicizing a book or article is just more fodder for the USA
TODAY to run an article a la:

why are US cars good for encouraging consuming and thus economic turnover and
growth; and them foreign heaps bad for US?

fergit i suggested such a rational, sensational thing that confirms what
consumer reports has been telling us for too goshdamn many years