Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Right after i purchased my 2000 Sonata new, I was told by a couple
informed people that Hyundai borrowed certain technology for their cars ; If i remember correctly, the suspension was Mercedes Benz, the electronics from Bosch, and there were a couple others too (which perhaps someone in this NG can bring to light.) Is this still the case with current production Hyundai's ? Just curious. Thanks. |
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians'
tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other products. The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se. As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7 used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while making the necessary changes to the software. As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006 Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor about this point and received an answer something like the friction material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata. The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8 v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai, complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses. I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology, but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed. I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed, installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software. |
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians'
tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other products. The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se. As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7 used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while making the necessary changes to the software. As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006 Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor about this point and received an answer something like the friction material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata. The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8 v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai, complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses. I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology, but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed. I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed, installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software. |
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians'
tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other products. The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se. As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7 used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while making the necessary changes to the software. As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006 Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor about this point and received an answer something like the friction material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata. The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8 v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai, complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses. I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology, but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed. I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed, installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software. |
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Interesting info. Thanks H.T.
|
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Interesting info. Thanks H.T.
|
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Interesting info. Thanks H.T.
|
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 19:39:01 -0400, "hyundaitech"
<notpublic@not.public.com> wrote: >Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians' >tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other >products. > >The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with >Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is >a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some >Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se. > >As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7 >used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse >engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed >for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while >making the necessary changes to the software. > >As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the >fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006 >Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than >revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor >about this point and received an answer something like the friction >material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided >friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although >somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the >transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata. > >The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine >Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler, >Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8 >v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not >someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines >in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they >were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai, >complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses. > >I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving >toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all >their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also >apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came >off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology, >but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed. >I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed, >installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since >both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software. Delphi has been spun off GM and told to find other customers. They are in bankruptcy and in the process of signficantly reducing the number of factories they have as well as the pay of the remaining workers. Rumor has it that Hyundai also approached the old Rochester Products (I don't recall their current name) about wiper motors for their US plant and was told they would make them in China but not the US so Hyundai declined to do business with them. This would lead me to think Hyundai may be buying the components from US suppliers as a way to keep up US content. |
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 19:39:01 -0400, "hyundaitech"
<notpublic@not.public.com> wrote: >Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians' >tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other >products. > >The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with >Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is >a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some >Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se. > >As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7 >used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse >engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed >for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while >making the necessary changes to the software. > >As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the >fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006 >Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than >revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor >about this point and received an answer something like the friction >material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided >friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although >somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the >transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata. > >The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine >Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler, >Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8 >v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not >someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines >in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they >were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai, >complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses. > >I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving >toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all >their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also >apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came >off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology, >but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed. >I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed, >installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since >both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software. Delphi has been spun off GM and told to find other customers. They are in bankruptcy and in the process of signficantly reducing the number of factories they have as well as the pay of the remaining workers. Rumor has it that Hyundai also approached the old Rochester Products (I don't recall their current name) about wiper motors for their US plant and was told they would make them in China but not the US so Hyundai declined to do business with them. This would lead me to think Hyundai may be buying the components from US suppliers as a way to keep up US content. |
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 19:39:01 -0400, "hyundaitech"
<notpublic@not.public.com> wrote: >Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians' >tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other >products. > >The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with >Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is >a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some >Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se. > >As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7 >used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse >engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed >for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while >making the necessary changes to the software. > >As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the >fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006 >Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than >revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor >about this point and received an answer something like the friction >material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided >friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although >somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the >transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata. > >The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine >Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler, >Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8 >v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not >someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines >in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they >were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai, >complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses. > >I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving >toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all >their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also >apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came >off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology, >but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed. >I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed, >installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since >both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software. Delphi has been spun off GM and told to find other customers. They are in bankruptcy and in the process of signficantly reducing the number of factories they have as well as the pay of the remaining workers. Rumor has it that Hyundai also approached the old Rochester Products (I don't recall their current name) about wiper motors for their US plant and was told they would make them in China but not the US so Hyundai declined to do business with them. This would lead me to think Hyundai may be buying the components from US suppliers as a way to keep up US content. |
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
I read somewhere that the o6 Sonata v-6 is a MB design and the Electronic
Stability Control is Bosch...don't remember where now |
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
I read somewhere that the o6 Sonata v-6 is a MB design and the Electronic
Stability Control is Bosch...don't remember where now |
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
I read somewhere that the o6 Sonata v-6 is a MB design and the Electronic
Stability Control is Bosch...don't remember where now |
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
> Right after i purchased my 2000 Sonata new, I was told by a couple > informed people that Hyundai borrowed certain technology for their cars It is very common for smaller car companies to purchase parts and technology from other manufacturers and vendors. For example, American Motors at various times in its history used GM ignition, Ford carburetors, Ford ignition, GM steering columns, Ford starters, Borg Warner transmissions, Chrysler automatic transmissions, Motorola alternators, Saginaw (GM) power steering, New Process (Chrysler) 4WD transfer cases, and even GM engines in a few models; and this is in no way an exhaustive list. (The mix in my '75 Hornet is GM Delco alternator, GM Saginaw power steering, Bendix brakes, Ford starter, Chrysler automatic transmission, GM steering columns and Prestolite electronic ignition.) It would not surprise me at all to find that much of the technology in Hyundai products is licensed or copied, that kind of thing is pretty much S.O.P. in the industry. |
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
> Right after i purchased my 2000 Sonata new, I was told by a couple > informed people that Hyundai borrowed certain technology for their cars It is very common for smaller car companies to purchase parts and technology from other manufacturers and vendors. For example, American Motors at various times in its history used GM ignition, Ford carburetors, Ford ignition, GM steering columns, Ford starters, Borg Warner transmissions, Chrysler automatic transmissions, Motorola alternators, Saginaw (GM) power steering, New Process (Chrysler) 4WD transfer cases, and even GM engines in a few models; and this is in no way an exhaustive list. (The mix in my '75 Hornet is GM Delco alternator, GM Saginaw power steering, Bendix brakes, Ford starter, Chrysler automatic transmission, GM steering columns and Prestolite electronic ignition.) It would not surprise me at all to find that much of the technology in Hyundai products is licensed or copied, that kind of thing is pretty much S.O.P. in the industry. |
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