Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
06-30-2006, 06:10 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Right after i purchased my 2000 Sonata new, I was told by a couple
informed people that Hyundai borrowed certain technology for their cars
; If i remember correctly, the suspension was Mercedes Benz, the
electronics from Bosch, and there were a couple others too (which
perhaps someone in this NG can bring to light.)
Is this still the case with current production Hyundai's ? Just
curious. Thanks.
informed people that Hyundai borrowed certain technology for their cars
; If i remember correctly, the suspension was Mercedes Benz, the
electronics from Bosch, and there were a couple others too (which
perhaps someone in this NG can bring to light.)
Is this still the case with current production Hyundai's ? Just
curious. Thanks.
06-30-2006, 07:39 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians'
tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other
products.
The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with
Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is
a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some
Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se.
As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7
used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse
engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed
for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while
making the necessary changes to the software.
As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the
fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006
Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than
revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor
about this point and received an answer something like the friction
material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided
friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although
somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the
transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata.
The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine
Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler,
Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8
v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not
someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines
in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they
were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai,
complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses.
I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving
toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all
their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also
apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came
off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology,
but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed.
I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed,
installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since
both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software.
tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other
products.
The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with
Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is
a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some
Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se.
As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7
used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse
engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed
for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while
making the necessary changes to the software.
As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the
fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006
Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than
revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor
about this point and received an answer something like the friction
material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided
friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although
somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the
transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata.
The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine
Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler,
Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8
v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not
someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines
in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they
were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai,
complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses.
I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving
toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all
their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also
apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came
off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology,
but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed.
I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed,
installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since
both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software.
06-30-2006, 07:39 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians'
tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other
products.
The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with
Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is
a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some
Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se.
As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7
used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse
engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed
for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while
making the necessary changes to the software.
As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the
fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006
Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than
revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor
about this point and received an answer something like the friction
material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided
friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although
somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the
transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata.
The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine
Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler,
Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8
v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not
someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines
in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they
were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai,
complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses.
I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving
toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all
their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also
apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came
off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology,
but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed.
I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed,
installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since
both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software.
tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other
products.
The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with
Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is
a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some
Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se.
As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7
used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse
engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed
for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while
making the necessary changes to the software.
As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the
fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006
Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than
revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor
about this point and received an answer something like the friction
material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided
friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although
somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the
transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata.
The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine
Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler,
Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8
v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not
someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines
in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they
were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai,
complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses.
I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving
toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all
their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also
apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came
off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology,
but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed.
I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed,
installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since
both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software.
06-30-2006, 07:39 PM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians'
tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other
products.
The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with
Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is
a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some
Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se.
As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7
used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse
engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed
for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while
making the necessary changes to the software.
As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the
fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006
Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than
revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor
about this point and received an answer something like the friction
material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided
friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although
somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the
transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata.
The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine
Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler,
Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8
v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not
someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines
in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they
were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai,
complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses.
I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving
toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all
their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also
apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came
off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology,
but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed.
I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed,
installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since
both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software.
tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other
products.
The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with
Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is
a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some
Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se.
As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7
used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse
engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed
for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while
making the necessary changes to the software.
As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the
fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006
Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than
revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor
about this point and received an answer something like the friction
material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided
friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although
somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the
transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata.
The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine
Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler,
Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8
v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not
someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines
in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they
were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai,
complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses.
I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving
toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all
their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also
apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came
off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology,
but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed.
I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed,
installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since
both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software.
07-01-2006, 11:55 AM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 19:39:01 -0400, "hyundaitech"
<notpublic@not.public.com> wrote:
>Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians'
>tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other
>products.
>
>The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with
>Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is
>a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some
>Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se.
>
>As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7
>used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse
>engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed
>for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while
>making the necessary changes to the software.
>
>As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the
>fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006
>Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than
>revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor
>about this point and received an answer something like the friction
>material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided
>friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although
>somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the
>transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata.
>
>The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine
>Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler,
>Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8
>v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not
>someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines
>in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they
>were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai,
>complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses.
>
>I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving
>toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all
>their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also
>apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came
>off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology,
>but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed.
>I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed,
>installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since
>both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software.
Delphi has been spun off GM and told to find other customers. They
are in bankruptcy and in the process of signficantly reducing the
number of factories they have as well as the pay of the remaining
workers. Rumor has it that Hyundai also approached the old Rochester
Products (I don't recall their current name) about wiper motors for
their US plant and was told they would make them in China but not the
US so Hyundai declined to do business with them. This would lead me
to think Hyundai may be buying the components from US suppliers as a
way to keep up US content.
<notpublic@not.public.com> wrote:
>Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians'
>tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other
>products.
>
>The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with
>Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is
>a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some
>Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se.
>
>As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7
>used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse
>engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed
>for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while
>making the necessary changes to the software.
>
>As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the
>fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006
>Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than
>revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor
>about this point and received an answer something like the friction
>material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided
>friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although
>somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the
>transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata.
>
>The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine
>Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler,
>Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8
>v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not
>someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines
>in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they
>were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai,
>complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses.
>
>I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving
>toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all
>their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also
>apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came
>off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology,
>but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed.
>I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed,
>installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since
>both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software.
Delphi has been spun off GM and told to find other customers. They
are in bankruptcy and in the process of signficantly reducing the
number of factories they have as well as the pay of the remaining
workers. Rumor has it that Hyundai also approached the old Rochester
Products (I don't recall their current name) about wiper motors for
their US plant and was told they would make them in China but not the
US so Hyundai declined to do business with them. This would lead me
to think Hyundai may be buying the components from US suppliers as a
way to keep up US content.
07-01-2006, 11:55 AM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 19:39:01 -0400, "hyundaitech"
<notpublic@not.public.com> wrote:
>Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians'
>tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other
>products.
>
>The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with
>Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is
>a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some
>Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se.
>
>As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7
>used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse
>engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed
>for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while
>making the necessary changes to the software.
>
>As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the
>fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006
>Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than
>revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor
>about this point and received an answer something like the friction
>material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided
>friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although
>somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the
>transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata.
>
>The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine
>Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler,
>Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8
>v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not
>someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines
>in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they
>were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai,
>complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses.
>
>I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving
>toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all
>their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also
>apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came
>off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology,
>but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed.
>I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed,
>installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since
>both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software.
Delphi has been spun off GM and told to find other customers. They
are in bankruptcy and in the process of signficantly reducing the
number of factories they have as well as the pay of the remaining
workers. Rumor has it that Hyundai also approached the old Rochester
Products (I don't recall their current name) about wiper motors for
their US plant and was told they would make them in China but not the
US so Hyundai declined to do business with them. This would lead me
to think Hyundai may be buying the components from US suppliers as a
way to keep up US content.
<notpublic@not.public.com> wrote:
>Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians'
>tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other
>products.
>
>The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with
>Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is
>a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some
>Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se.
>
>As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7
>used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse
>engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed
>for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while
>making the necessary changes to the software.
>
>As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the
>fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006
>Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than
>revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor
>about this point and received an answer something like the friction
>material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided
>friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although
>somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the
>transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata.
>
>The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine
>Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler,
>Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8
>v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not
>someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines
>in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they
>were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai,
>complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses.
>
>I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving
>toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all
>their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also
>apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came
>off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology,
>but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed.
>I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed,
>installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since
>both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software.
Delphi has been spun off GM and told to find other customers. They
are in bankruptcy and in the process of signficantly reducing the
number of factories they have as well as the pay of the remaining
workers. Rumor has it that Hyundai also approached the old Rochester
Products (I don't recall their current name) about wiper motors for
their US plant and was told they would make them in China but not the
US so Hyundai declined to do business with them. This would lead me
to think Hyundai may be buying the components from US suppliers as a
way to keep up US content.
07-01-2006, 11:55 AM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 19:39:01 -0400, "hyundaitech"
<notpublic@not.public.com> wrote:
>Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians'
>tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other
>products.
>
>The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with
>Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is
>a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some
>Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se.
>
>As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7
>used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse
>engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed
>for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while
>making the necessary changes to the software.
>
>As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the
>fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006
>Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than
>revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor
>about this point and received an answer something like the friction
>material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided
>friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although
>somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the
>transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata.
>
>The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine
>Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler,
>Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8
>v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not
>someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines
>in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they
>were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai,
>complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses.
>
>I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving
>toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all
>their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also
>apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came
>off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology,
>but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed.
>I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed,
>installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since
>both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software.
Delphi has been spun off GM and told to find other customers. They
are in bankruptcy and in the process of signficantly reducing the
number of factories they have as well as the pay of the remaining
workers. Rumor has it that Hyundai also approached the old Rochester
Products (I don't recall their current name) about wiper motors for
their US plant and was told they would make them in China but not the
US so Hyundai declined to do business with them. This would lead me
to think Hyundai may be buying the components from US suppliers as a
way to keep up US content.
<notpublic@not.public.com> wrote:
>Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians'
>tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other
>products.
>
>The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with
>Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is
>a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some
>Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se.
>
>As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7
>used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse
>engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed
>for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while
>making the necessary changes to the software.
>
>As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the
>fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006
>Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than
>revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor
>about this point and received an answer something like the friction
>material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided
>friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although
>somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the
>transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata.
>
>The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine
>Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler,
>Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8
>v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not
>someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines
>in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they
>were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai,
>complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses.
>
>I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving
>toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all
>their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also
>apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came
>off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology,
>but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed.
>I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed,
>installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since
>both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software.
Delphi has been spun off GM and told to find other customers. They
are in bankruptcy and in the process of signficantly reducing the
number of factories they have as well as the pay of the remaining
workers. Rumor has it that Hyundai also approached the old Rochester
Products (I don't recall their current name) about wiper motors for
their US plant and was told they would make them in China but not the
US so Hyundai declined to do business with them. This would lead me
to think Hyundai may be buying the components from US suppliers as a
way to keep up US content.
07-01-2006, 10:40 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
> Right after i purchased my 2000 Sonata new, I was told by a couple
> informed people that Hyundai borrowed certain technology for their cars
It is very common for smaller car companies to purchase parts and
technology from other manufacturers and vendors.
For example, American Motors at various times in its history used GM
ignition, Ford carburetors, Ford ignition, GM steering columns, Ford
starters, Borg Warner transmissions, Chrysler automatic transmissions,
Motorola alternators, Saginaw (GM) power steering, New Process
(Chrysler) 4WD transfer cases, and even GM engines in a few models; and
this is in no way an exhaustive list. (The mix in my '75 Hornet is GM
Delco alternator, GM Saginaw power steering, Bendix brakes, Ford
starter, Chrysler automatic transmission, GM steering columns and
Prestolite electronic ignition.)
It would not surprise me at all to find that much of the technology in
Hyundai products is licensed or copied, that kind of thing is pretty
much S.O.P. in the industry.
> Right after i purchased my 2000 Sonata new, I was told by a couple
> informed people that Hyundai borrowed certain technology for their cars
It is very common for smaller car companies to purchase parts and
technology from other manufacturers and vendors.
For example, American Motors at various times in its history used GM
ignition, Ford carburetors, Ford ignition, GM steering columns, Ford
starters, Borg Warner transmissions, Chrysler automatic transmissions,
Motorola alternators, Saginaw (GM) power steering, New Process
(Chrysler) 4WD transfer cases, and even GM engines in a few models; and
this is in no way an exhaustive list. (The mix in my '75 Hornet is GM
Delco alternator, GM Saginaw power steering, Bendix brakes, Ford
starter, Chrysler automatic transmission, GM steering columns and
Prestolite electronic ignition.)
It would not surprise me at all to find that much of the technology in
Hyundai products is licensed or copied, that kind of thing is pretty
much S.O.P. in the industry.
07-01-2006, 10:40 PM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)
Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
> Right after i purchased my 2000 Sonata new, I was told by a couple
> informed people that Hyundai borrowed certain technology for their cars
It is very common for smaller car companies to purchase parts and
technology from other manufacturers and vendors.
For example, American Motors at various times in its history used GM
ignition, Ford carburetors, Ford ignition, GM steering columns, Ford
starters, Borg Warner transmissions, Chrysler automatic transmissions,
Motorola alternators, Saginaw (GM) power steering, New Process
(Chrysler) 4WD transfer cases, and even GM engines in a few models; and
this is in no way an exhaustive list. (The mix in my '75 Hornet is GM
Delco alternator, GM Saginaw power steering, Bendix brakes, Ford
starter, Chrysler automatic transmission, GM steering columns and
Prestolite electronic ignition.)
It would not surprise me at all to find that much of the technology in
Hyundai products is licensed or copied, that kind of thing is pretty
much S.O.P. in the industry.
> Right after i purchased my 2000 Sonata new, I was told by a couple
> informed people that Hyundai borrowed certain technology for their cars
It is very common for smaller car companies to purchase parts and
technology from other manufacturers and vendors.
For example, American Motors at various times in its history used GM
ignition, Ford carburetors, Ford ignition, GM steering columns, Ford
starters, Borg Warner transmissions, Chrysler automatic transmissions,
Motorola alternators, Saginaw (GM) power steering, New Process
(Chrysler) 4WD transfer cases, and even GM engines in a few models; and
this is in no way an exhaustive list. (The mix in my '75 Hornet is GM
Delco alternator, GM Saginaw power steering, Bendix brakes, Ford
starter, Chrysler automatic transmission, GM steering columns and
Prestolite electronic ignition.)
It would not surprise me at all to find that much of the technology in
Hyundai products is licensed or copied, that kind of thing is pretty
much S.O.P. in the industry.