Matt Whiting

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> news:kJjIh.3060$Oc.171291@news1.epix.net...
>
>> Yes, my mother-in-law is on her second Buick, I believe both were/are
>> Centuries. It drives like a boat. It wallows and wobbles and the
>> steering is as vague as a politician running for office. It has been
>> reasonably reliable, but it isn't a pleasure to drive. It does have a
>> very good HVAC system, unlike my Sonata.
>
> That's surprising Matt. What year is the Century? The Century is
> essentially a Regal with a case of the wimps, but as far as handling goes,
> they are normally quite firm and committed. I've never heard of one
> referred to as wallowing and wobbly. Never experienced such in one either.
> They are 4 wheel McPhearson strut suspensions, and as such are normally
> quite solid on the road. Does she have decent rubber on the car?

I'm not sure of the year, but I'd say around 1999-2000 for the current
one. The prior one was 1988 or 89 I believe.

I think the rubber is pretty cheap, but the tires don't affect what I'm
talking about. Actually, the Sonata has somewhat the same problem as it
feels loose and unconnected at times, even more so than my minivan.

However, at least it has pretty precise steering. The Century has a lot
of play in the steering and it is overboosted and lacks feel.


>> I drove a Park Avenue rental a few years ago from Elmira to Boston and
>> back. It was quite comfortable, but again the handling just wasn't my
>> cup of tea. It did get amazing mileage for a car that size. I averaged
>> 30 MPG traveling at 65-70 MPH which I thought was amazing. However,
>> it had a persistent slight miss at cruise speed which I suspect was a
>> "lean" miss like some of the early "lean burn" Chrysler's had.
>>
>
> Yeah - that Park Ave was really some kinda car. Mine never experienced the
> miss you mention, but I did consistently get the mileage you saw. Quite a
> pleasure that was - a nice, comfortable car, *and* great mileage.

The miss was subtle and I doubt many people would even notice, but I've
very attuned to my cars and I hear and feel very subtle vibrations and
noises. The Park Avenue had this very sporadic miss that you could feel
and hear when the road was smooth and there were no other cars around
you to make noise. In traffic, it was hard to detect, but route 88 from
Binghamton to Albany is boring and has very little traffic!

Matt

What

I bought my wife a new Regal LX in 2000. 3.8 engine. It gets a true 29 MPG
on the highway, 22 in town. Unlike the XG350 I have which gets lousy milage
in town and on highway. Geared way to low for good milage. Runs at least
500-750 RPM higher than the 3.8 Buick at the same speed. Transmission fluid
doesn't need changed every 30,000 miles either, at $6.50 a quart. Oil and
Air filters are $5.00 too at Pep boys instead of 25.00 for a Hyundai, and
last but not least, the antifreeze for it is Prestone at $5.00 a gallon
instead of Hyundai at $23.50 a gallon. Have 21,000 miles on it. Great car.
She has never had a bit of trouble with it except for an idiot at the
dealer performing a recall on the fuel tank who damaged the electrical
harness when he installed the new tank, and will not consider getting rid
of it. I plan on getting rid of the gas guzzling Hyundai as soon as the
long (chuckle) bumper to bumper warranty is up. Hyundai had a recall om my
XG350 to re program the computer for something to do with pollution, and
dropped the MPG in town to about 16, instead of the 19. I got before the
computer update. I had a 91 Crown Vic with a a 5.0 litre Ford V/8 engine
that got better milage than the XG350 3.5 litre engine does.

Rob

I also have had great experiences with Buick, It seems that a lot of GM cars
get great MPG. I rented a DTS last year, got 30 mpg on the hiway at 80 mph.
BTW I liked the Park Avenue better than a DTS. I owned a Chevy Venture which
was an all around better vehicle than the previous Ford Windstar and Honda
Odyssey I owned. Detroit has always been good to me.



"What" <that@twit.com> wrote in message
news:XSCIh.1615$Qw.398@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net. ..
>I bought my wife a new Regal LX in 2000. 3.8 engine. It gets a true 29 MPG
> on the highway, 22 in town. Unlike the XG350 I have which gets lousy
> milage
> in town and on highway. Geared way to low for good milage. Runs at least
> 500-750 RPM higher than the 3.8 Buick at the same speed. Transmission
> fluid
> doesn't need changed every 30,000 miles either, at $6.50 a quart. Oil and
> Air filters are $5.00 too at Pep boys instead of 25.00 for a Hyundai, and
> last but not least, the antifreeze for it is Prestone at $5.00 a gallon
> instead of Hyundai at $23.50 a gallon. Have 21,000 miles on it. Great car.
> She has never had a bit of trouble with it except for an idiot at the
> dealer performing a recall on the fuel tank who damaged the electrical
> harness when he installed the new tank, and will not consider getting rid
> of it. I plan on getting rid of the gas guzzling Hyundai as soon as the
> long (chuckle) bumper to bumper warranty is up. Hyundai had a recall om my
> XG350 to re program the computer for something to do with pollution, and
> dropped the MPG in town to about 16, instead of the 19. I got before the
> computer update. I had a 91 Crown Vic with a a 5.0 litre Ford V/8 engine
> that got better milage than the XG350 3.5 litre engine does.
>

Wayne Moses

Reply to message from "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> (Thu, 08 Mar 2007
20:37:12) about "Re: Motor Trend Azera":

EP> The way I interpreted the comment was that the Azera is what a Buick
EP> "should be".

Could be that was intended. If the author had used clear language as you
have there would be no question. ;-)

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <wmoses@houston.rr.com> Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:38:26 -0600

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Wayne Moses

Reply to message from Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> (Thu, 08
Mar 2007 18:52:19) about "Re: Motor Trend Azera":

BN> Still, I don't
BN> doubt that the Azera is a nice rig.

It certainly is. I spent about 45 minutes with one and even my wife was
drooling. She sees cars as just transportation.

I agree re: MT and their ad allegiances.

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <wmoses@houston.rr.com> Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:40:34 -0600

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Wayne Moses

Reply to message from "Darby OGill" <bark@woof.net> (Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:
08:12) about "Re: Motor Trend Azera":

DO> Matt, Ed, Wayne........a few words defending Buick

No need to defend Buick, Darby. To each his own. There are people who like
Buicks and there are people who like other cars.

However you have to understand that for years on end Hyundai owners have
had to bear all sorts of insults against the cars they chose to buy -
insults that in a way also insulted the intelligence of the owners for
having bought a Hyundai.

It therefore is poetic justice when Hyundai is showing up the 'all holy
GM'. You could do no wrong if you bought a GM / Ford / Chrysler vehicle -
any model. But to buy a Hyundai .... you must be an idiot, they would
surely think if not say.

DO> Have you driven (or owned) a Buick a lately? I previously had a '99
DO> Regal LSE. I loved it.

I had a rental 2000 Buick Century and it was OK if you like a couch in
wheels. The demographic are older folks and they deserve to get a nice soft
cushy floaty Buick because they like that sort of ride.

DO> .......I love my Sonata. If it turns out be as good as the Buick, it
DO> will have been a great car too.

I am sure that it will be just as dependable as a current Buick would be. I
say that because all makers are faced with the challenge of offering more
sophistication features and performance for less cost, and sometimes
reliability suffers when compared with older simpler models.

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <wmoses@houston.rr.com> Sat, 10 Mar 2007 21:03:57 -0600

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Wayne Moses

Reply to message from "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> (Fri, 09 Mar 2007
12:00:44) about "Re: Motor Trend Azera":

EP> 84 and 91 Regals, 97 and 01 LeSabres. Still have the 01 LeSabre. Olds,
EP> 81, 83, 86.

EP> My experience with the 01 LeSabre is why I bought a Hyundai.

Hehehe .... Good post Ed. You are certainly eminently qualified by both
your purchases and your experiences.

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <wmoses@houston.rr.com> Sat, 10 Mar 2007 21:31:08 -0600

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Wayne Moses

Reply to message from "Darby OGill" <bark@woof.net> (Fri, 09 Mar 2007 17:
00:31) about "Re: Motor Trend Azera":

DO> .. PS If you put the Volvo seats, and the Buick headroom/seating
DO> position in the Sonata, I'd never look back......
DO> maybe thats where the Azera come in.

I believe you are right. Based on my experience with the Azera and compared
to my Tiburon, the Azera is what today's Buick should be striving towards.

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <wmoses@houston.rr.com> Sat, 10 Mar 2007 21:36:15 -0600

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Mike Marlow

"Wayne Moses" <wmoses@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1173606600@wmoses.houston.rr.com...
Reply to message from "Darby OGill" <bark@woof.net> (Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:
08:12) about "Re: Motor Trend Azera":



> However you have to understand that for years on end Hyundai owners have
> had to bear all sorts of insults against the cars they chose to buy -
> insults that in a way also insulted the intelligence of the owners for
> having bought a Hyundai.


That's an interesting thought Wayne. As one who waited a long time to buy a
Hyundai, I owned several GM's while I watched Hyundai develop. A friend had
purchased a Hyundai in the early 90's and had some good luck with the car.
It had some problems, but it was a fairly new introduction at the time and
some problems were to be expected. The car did show promise though, and it
was an interesting car to watch develop. It wasn't something I was ready to
invest any money in though, until the early 2000 era vehicles came along. I
started looking pretty closely at them in the early 2000's and finally
bought a 2004 Sonata. Never looked back. I'm still GM at heart and I'm one
of the crowd that is hoping they'll get past their arrogance and mis-deeds
of the past and get back to building the quality they've been known for and
creating a new customer care attitude, but this Sonata has really impressed
me. I never did look down my nose at any Hyundai owner. Always thought
they were taking some pretty big chances on that company in the early days,
but that's not a look down on cause in my book.

> It therefore is poetic justice when Hyundai is showing up the 'all holy
> GM'. You could do no wrong if you bought a GM / Ford / Chrysler vehicle -
> any model. But to buy a Hyundai .... you must be an idiot, they would
> surely think if not say.

Oh - let me correct you there Wayne. It has always been... Ford owners were
to be somewhat pitied for their dimwitedness, or perhaps their economic
misfortune as to be unable to afford a nice car. Chrsyler owners were just
despicable.


DO> .......I love my Sonata. If it turns out be as good as the Buick, it
DO> will have been a great car too.

> I am sure that it will be just as dependable as a current Buick would be.
I
> say that because all makers are faced with the challenge of offering more
> sophistication features and performance for less cost, and sometimes
> reliability suffers when compared with older simpler models.

My wife's 04 is creeping up on 60K miles, even as we speak. I have not put
a wrench to the car except to change the oil. I'll be changing the timing
belt soon and the associated preventative tasks, and I'm still not thrilled
at having to do that, but it's life with rubber band interference engines.
Certainly not unique to Hyundai. That is a pretty good reliability record
in my book. And I have to say... every time I get into that car and drive
it, I get out saying the same damned thing - "man this car impresses me".
My wife just loves that car as much today as the day we bought it.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Wayne Moses

Reply to message from "Mike Marlow" <mmarlow@alltel.net> (Sun, 11 Mar 2007
06:10:25) about "Re: Motor Trend Azera":

MM> As one who waited a long time to buy a Hyundai, I owned several GM's

That is one domestic brand I have not bought and that is largely due to 2
main reasons - (1) their styling (to my taste) was a joke and (2) they
apparently had this arrogant corporate mindset to continue building the
cars they did without listening to the consumer and changing with the
times. It is as if they decided "whatever we decide to build the customer
will buy because we are GM". It is only when the American consumer started
getting smarter and stopped buying cars essentially solely on brand loyalty
that they started to listen. Now they are still shi**ing bricks as they
bleed money all over the place. Now they are starting to make charges in
style and quality. Question is - are they too late...?

MM> while I watched Hyundai develop. A friend had purchased a Hyundai in
MM> the early 90's and had some good luck with the car. It had some
MM> problems, but it was a fairly new introduction at the time and some
MM> problems were to be expected.

I have bought 5 Hyundais since 1989. Do I think they are the best cars in
the world? No. Best quality? No. Best looking? Not really. My 1989 Sonata
was pretty ugly with its flat-top rear wheel arches. That car was also
always needing to have suspension bushings changed to correct clunking. It
was reliable but inexpensive. It did have the best warranty available at
the time and the repairs cost me nothing. They were done cheerfully with
little argument.

When I was buying the car I traded a Ford Tempo with low mileage and in
excellent shape. I first went to the Ford dealership thinking of getting a
Taurus since my Tempo was excellent for me. The salesman didn't even want
to look at me because I still owed in the Tempo. He lost my business in 5
minutes. Never went back.

Went to GM and Chrysler for a look. Their salesmen also had this air of
superiority as if I pulled up to do them a favour that day. Ignoring them I
looked at the cars. What a joke. Warranty was basic, quality of fit and
finish was a joke (ever run your eye along the side or along a feature line
form panel to panel? Scary!), and the price was not that good for what they
were peddling.

Went to Honda, Nissan, Toyota and 'this Hyundai place' down the road. While
the Japanese cars were all many notches above the domestics, the Accord was
the closest to what I wanted in terms of quality, performance and styling.
All of the dealers were friendly and attentive and wanted to sell me a car,
even if they wanted to give me a joke for my trade.

Then I went to the Hyundai dealer. Not only was the performance better than
the Accord but they gave more on the trade, the car cost 15% less for the
same feature set, and the warranty was better. Fit and finish was between
the Japanese and the domestics. Despite the hated flat-top rear wheel arch
I bought the car. While it was perfectly reliable for me, the quality
issues made it the worse Hyundai I ever owned.

So why did I go back to Hyundai for my 1993, 1995 and 2002 Elantras, and my
2005 Tiburon? For the same reasons most Hyundai owners buy their Hyundais -
bang for buck, i.e. that elusive balance of lower price, features, warranty
and especially in latter years, quality and styling. I personally have a
couple more reasons - reliability (never had a breakdown) and before AND
after sales service.

That said other car makers are adopting the Hyundai formula and at the same
time Hyundai is raising prices. That is better for the consumer but could
be bad for Hyundai.

MM> back. I'm still GM at heart

I am Mercedes Benz and Aston Martin at heart but as I dream I am (so far)
Hyundai in reality. That said I am very partial to the only GM would love
to buy now - the Chevy Corvette Z06 - bang for buck supercar.

MM> and I'm
MM> one of the crowd that is hoping they'll get past their arrogance and
MM> mis- deeds of the past and get back to building the quality they've
MM> been known for and creating a new customer care attitude,

Hear hear!

MM> Hyundai owner. Always thought they were taking some pretty big chances
MM> on that company in the early days,

You bet we were. But look at what that said about the domestics - we'd
rather buy a pig in a poke than buy your crap and that while we suffer
'altitude' from the sales and service departments!

MM> Oh - let me correct you there Wayne. It has always been... Ford owners
MM> were to be somewhat pitied for their dimwitedness, or perhaps their
MM> economic misfortune as to be unable to afford a nice car. Chrsyler
MM> owners were just despicable.

Ha ha ha .... my only Ford was very good to me but my current 1996 Dodge
minivan is basically garbage. Only has just over 106 k miles but the number
of things that had to be replaced is too long to mention. The only way I
will darken the door of a Dodge dealer again is if Hyundai owns it. ;-)

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <wmoses@houston.rr.com> Sun, 11 Mar 2007 10:58:42 -0500

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Edwin Pawlowski

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlow@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:573fd$45f3e3f7$4b58a65c$27562@ALLTEL.NET...
> That's an interesting thought Wayne. As one who waited a long time to buy
> a
> Hyundai, I owned several GM's while I watched Hyundai develop. A friend
> had
> purchased a Hyundai in the early 90's and had some good luck with the car.
> It had some problems, but it was a fairly new introduction at the time and
> some problems were to be expected. The car did show promise though, and
> it
> was an interesting car to watch develop.


I didn't watch it develop; I just ignored it. Had I not has problems with my
Buick, I may have continued to ignore it and just bought another Buick. .
My former impression was that they rusted away (early ones did), were too
small, lacked any special styling appeal. Once I took the time to look at
them closely, then actually drive one, I was impressed. Styling got my eye
with the Tiburon, then the new Sonata and Azera.

If Hyundai could take a bunch of them out and get people off the street to
drive one, I'd bet there sales would jump. Go to the supermarket parking
lot, the mall, the little league field, grab the driver and entice him to
take a new model out around the parking lot and I'd bet many would be
hooked. Lots of bang for the buck.

I'm looking forward to the new model in two years. It will really give
Buick and Avalon a run.

Deck

am I the only one who can't read any of these posts!!! they don't say
anything!! ??

Matt Whiting

Deck wrote:
> am I the only one who can't read any of these posts!!! they don't say
> anything!! ??
>

I can read them just fine.

Matt

Wayne Moses

Reply to message from "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> (Sun, 11 Mar 2007
14:38:11) about "Re: Motor Trend Azera":

EP> appeal. Once I took the time to look at them closely, then actually
EP> drive one, I was impressed.

At the risk of being accused again of plugging my website, the above
comment is essentially the reason behind the website's name - Drivers and
Believers.

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <wmoses@houston.rr.com> Sun, 11 Mar 2007 17:43:14 -0500

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Wayne Moses

Reply to message from Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> (Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:
09:30) about "Re: Motor Trend Azera":

MW> Deck wrote:

>> am I the only one who can't read any of these posts!!! they don't say
>> anything!! ??


MW> I can read them just fine.

Same here.

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <wmoses@houston.rr.com> Sun, 11 Mar 2007 17:47:44 -0500

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