Brian Nystrom

Numan wrote:
> "xmirage2kx" <UseLinkToEmail@AutoForumz.com> wrote in message
> news:1_637081_6ef21fcee5654e73351fd91e65587814@aut oforumz.com...
>
>>"" wrote:
>>
>>>Does anyone have any idea if Hyundai plans on selling a small
>>>to
>>>mid-size truck in the US? I think they would do a good job
>>>filling
>>>that market. Smaller size, 4 doors, clean burning diesel fuel,
>>>and
>>>at least 30 mpg. That is what I want!
>>>
>>>Numan
>>
>>the reason you dont see diesels state side is not all states will sell
>>them (ca, being the biggest). And oil companies are pushing for bigger
>>cars/trucks so the midsize trucks/suvs/cars are a failing market.
>>small cars are getting smaller, and big cars bigger. midsized isnt a
>>good market.
>
>
> That is why I wondered if maybe Hyundai would be considering it.
> Lots of people don't need or want a full sized pickup and a car
> maker could recognize this and make a bundle.

I think you missed the point. If there's no market, no one is going to
"make a bundle". It's probable that the market will come back
eventually, but mis-timing its return could cost a manufacturer dearly.
It's a risky business.

Brian Nystrom

Striker wrote:
> You should start seeing them after 2007 model year when Ultra Low sulfur
> diesel fuel in available in the U.S., I do not know if Hyundai will offer
> any but most likely Toyota, Nissan will. I just laugh when I hear people
> talk out of there urban asses and out of total ignorance spewing antidiesel
> bullshit. The reason diesel is a small percentage of the market is due to
> the availability of ULSD.

I'm curious as to what diffence that makes? Diesel fuel is readily
available, as are diesel powered cars for people who want them. There
simply doesn't seem to be the huge demand the some here believe there
is. BTW, if you were referring to me above, I live in New Hampshire.
There isn't any place in this state that truly fits the description of
"urban". Contrary to your bogus assumption, the nearest place to here
that you're likely to see people clamoring for diesel cars is in the
Boston area, where the "enviro-sensitive" urban types tend to
congregate. In fact, it's the only place I've heard of around here where
you can buy "bio-diesel" fuel. Who's talking out of their *** now?

> and that is only in cars, in HD pickups diesels
> are in the majority.

Sure, in BIG vehicles with enormous, fuel guzzling, smoke belching
engines where low end torque for hauling heavy loads is the most
important concern. While that's a good application for diesel engines,
what does it have to do with economy cars?

> VW now has a diesel hybrid that get 80 mpg and will
> meet or beat the performance of the Toyota and Honda hybrid yuppie mobiles

Gee, do you think you could you be a bit more hostile? I guess it's only
acceptable to environmentally concious in the manner that YOU think is
appropriate. How open-minded of you.

Numan

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:diSFe.145$PX4.67@trndny08...

>> I simply asked in my original post IF there was any talk about
>> such a vehicle. Now, if you look around you see the smaller size
>> trucks all over the place so there IS demand for a smaller size
>> pickup. I just wanted to know if there would ever be a more
>> up to date version that gets decent gas mileage.
>
> I don't know about where you live, but I see a lot more big-***, hulking,
> overpowered, gas-guzzling Detroit scrap iron than small import pickup
> trucks. Despite high gas prices, as a society, we can't seem get it
> through our heads that bigger ISN'T better. Believe me, I really wish this
> trend would end as I'm tired of dealing with idiots on the road who think
> they're invincible in their behemoths and with the high gas prices they
> cause through increased demand.

I agree with you on quite a few points. It just kills me to see one or
two people riding in a vehicle made for 12.

I just think that some of the people who don't want a big truck a
re buying cars now but would buy a modern, small sized, decent
mpg pickup. I may be 100% wrong.

> I wasn't comparing them to hybrids, but to their gasoline powered
> siblings. Hybrids don't make any economic sense unless you absolutely need
> a new car...that's "need" as opposed to "want". Even then, you'll never
> recover the increased cost vs. a similar gasoline powered car. On the plus
> side, they do produce lower emissions.

Diesels produce less green house emmisions but more particles
in the air. With the introduction of clean diesel these cars
will be almost as clean as the hybrids. I just don't understand
what is taking so long. I would love to have a diesel hybrid.
Great mpg and decent power!

> Personally, I wouldn't put up with the noise, the horribly offensive (to
> my nose) stench and the lack of power, even if they were the same price as
> a gasoline vehicle. I suspect that I'm far from alone in that feeling.

And again ,just like in Europe, they still sell gas powered vehicles
for people who don't like diesels. You do realize we would have
to import the stricter traffic laws to go along with the tiny cars?
I am not apposed to this. I do the speed limit on the Interstate and
let people pass me.

You are right about the lawyers.

Numan

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:lt3Ge.1279$PX4.929@trndny08...

>
> The problem is that it's not easy, inexpensive or quick to "federalize" a
> vehicle that's designed for another market with different requirements.

Well, there is nothing wrong with starting from scratch. I know
that other car makers are using computers to speed up the
process.

I just think that they are missing the boat, either on purpose
or not.

> Did you realize that Toyota loses money on every Prius it sells?

Why would they do that?

Numan

"Striker" <olliec@erols.com> wrote in message
news:wvadnUeJvdajaXrfRVn-vw@rcn.net...
> You should start seeing them after 2007 model year when Ultra Low sulfur
> diesel fuel in available in the U.S., I do not know if Hyundai will offer
> any but most likely Toyota, Nissan will. I just laugh when I hear people
> talk out of there urban asses and out of total ignorance spewing
> antidiesel bullshit. The reason diesel is a small percentage of the market
> is due to the availability of ULSD. and that is only in cars, in HD
> pickups diesels are in the majority. VW now has a diesel hybrid that get
> 80 mpg and will meet or beat the performance of the Toyota and Honda
> hybrid yuppie mobiles

I say, "Bring 'em on!"

Numan

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
newsN3Ge.1103$QX2.513@trndny01...
> Striker wrote:
>> You should start seeing them after 2007 model year when Ultra Low sulfur
>> diesel fuel in available in the U.S., I do not know if Hyundai will
>> offer any but most likely Toyota, Nissan will. I just laugh when I hear
>> people talk out of there urban asses and out of total ignorance spewing
>> antidiesel bullshit. The reason diesel is a small percentage of the
>> market is due to the availability of ULSD.
>
> I'm curious as to what diffence that makes? Diesel fuel is readily
> available, as are diesel powered cars for people who want them. There
> simply doesn't seem to be the huge demand the some here believe there is.
> BTW, if you were referring to me above, I live in New Hampshire. There
> isn't any place in this state that truly fits the description of "urban".
> Contrary to your bogus assumption, the nearest place to here that you're
> likely to see people clamoring for diesel cars is in the Boston area,
> where the "enviro-sensitive" urban types tend to congregate. In fact, it's
> the only place I've heard of around here where you can buy "bio-diesel"
> fuel. Who's talking out of their *** now?
>
>> and that is only in cars, in HD pickups diesels are in the majority.
>
> Sure, in BIG vehicles with enormous, fuel guzzling, smoke belching engines
> where low end torque for hauling heavy loads is the most important
> concern. While that's a good application for diesel engines, what does it
> have to do with economy cars?
>
>> VW now has a diesel hybrid that get 80 mpg and will meet or beat the
>> performance of the Toyota and Honda hybrid yuppie mobiles
>
> Gee, do you think you could you be a bit more hostile? I guess it's only
> acceptable to environmentally concious in the manner that YOU think is
> appropriate. How open-minded of you.

What is this need of yours to be right?

Numan

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:xx3Ge.1596$1E.963@trndny04...

> I think you missed the point. If there's no market, no one is going to
> "make a bundle". It's probable that the market will come back eventually,
> but mis-timing its return could cost a manufacturer dearly. It's a risky
> business.

Yes, it is and that is why there are people who specialize in
finding out if there is a market. I was just hoping there was
and that SOMEONE is doing something about meeting
a possible demand.

Brian Nystrom

Numan wrote:
> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:lt3Ge.1279$PX4.929@trndny08...
>
>
>>The problem is that it's not easy, inexpensive or quick to "federalize" a
>>vehicle that's designed for another market with different requirements.
>
> Well, there is nothing wrong with starting from scratch. I know
> that other car makers are using computers to speed up the
> process.

It still takes years to design a new vehicle and tool up for it. It
costs hundreds of millions of dollars. Car manufacturers have to be sure
that such investments will pay off.

> I just think that they are missing the boat, either on purpose
> or not.
>
Perhaps, but they probably know better what will sell than we do.
>
>>Did you realize that Toyota loses money on every Prius it sells?
>
> Why would they do that?

It's a very expensive car to build and if they priced it high enough to
make money, it wouldn't sell well. They'll lose money on it for now in
order to establish the market, then make it up when the manufacturing
costs come down due to higher volume and improved manufacturing
technology. Unlike a lot of companies, Toyota can afford it.

Brian Nystrom

Numan wrote:
> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
> newsN3Ge.1103$QX2.513@trndny01...
>
>>Striker wrote:
>>
>>>You should start seeing them after 2007 model year when Ultra Low sulfur
>>>diesel fuel in available in the U.S., I do not know if Hyundai will
>>>offer any but most likely Toyota, Nissan will. I just laugh when I hear
>>>people talk out of there urban asses and out of total ignorance spewing
>>>antidiesel bullshit. The reason diesel is a small percentage of the
>>>market is due to the availability of ULSD.
>>
>>I'm curious as to what diffence that makes? Diesel fuel is readily
>>available, as are diesel powered cars for people who want them. There
>>simply doesn't seem to be the huge demand the some here believe there is.
>>BTW, if you were referring to me above, I live in New Hampshire. There
>>isn't any place in this state that truly fits the description of "urban".
>>Contrary to your bogus assumption, the nearest place to here that you're
>>likely to see people clamoring for diesel cars is in the Boston area,
>>where the "enviro-sensitive" urban types tend to congregate. In fact, it's
>>the only place I've heard of around here where you can buy "bio-diesel"
>>fuel. Who's talking out of their *** now?
>>
>>
>>>and that is only in cars, in HD pickups diesels are in the majority.
>>
>>Sure, in BIG vehicles with enormous, fuel guzzling, smoke belching engines
>>where low end torque for hauling heavy loads is the most important
>>concern. While that's a good application for diesel engines, what does it
>>have to do with economy cars?
>>
>>
>>>VW now has a diesel hybrid that get 80 mpg and will meet or beat the
>>>performance of the Toyota and Honda hybrid yuppie mobiles
>>
>>Gee, do you think you could you be a bit more hostile? I guess it's only
>>acceptable to environmentally concious in the manner that YOU think is
>>appropriate. How open-minded of you.
>
>
> What is this need of yours to be right?

Is there some reason I shouldn't respond to snide comments and rebut a
bogus argument? This is a discussion and there's more than one side to
it. "Right" is relative. What's right for you may not be right for me
and vice-versa. We don't have to agree and we're all entitled to express
our views.