Eric G.

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in
news:PADdj.2196$se5.937@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com:

>
> "Eric G." <NgOrSePeAnM99@Zoptonline.Znet> wrote in message
>>
>> Actually, in rain, a greater surface area (i.e., wider tire) is a
>> better option against hydroplaning. You are right about the snow and
>> ice though.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>
> Actually, no. Ever see race cars with wide slicks on a wet track? In
> addition to wide tread, you need a tread pattern that moves the water
> away from between the road and the tire surface. A narrow tire with
> the right pattern is superior to a wide tire with the wrong pattern.
>
> As for snow and ice, similar rules apply but a good snow tread is
> required. There is much more to performance that a simple wide or
> narrow design. Most tires are a compromise.

Interesting to read in Matt's references that a wider tire actually is
better on glare ice, but that makes sense as to the surface area and
friction.

Eric

Fantine

Thanks for all the help, h-tech. Happy New Year!

"hyundaitech" <notpublic@not.public.com> wrote in message
news:eaf0845c9e3fe556a23e8e024c8eff95@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> If you have a manual transmission, it could be a symptom of the clutch and
> accelerator coordination. I haven't liked the feel of the Elantra
> clutches since about 2001, and I believe they take some familiarity before
> they can be operated well.
>
> On the other hand, if you have an automatic, I'd say that there may need
> to be less uneasiness about how much the car will roll backward. A little
> practicing in an empty area will help you learn how much and how fast the
> car will move backward on an incline. This, too, is something that varies
> from vehicle to vehicle, and is dependent on engine horsepower and torque
> converter efficiency.
>
> --
> Message posted using
> http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
> More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html
>

Matt Whiting

Eric G. wrote:
> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote in
> news:iyEdj.1284$2n4.29851@news1.epix.net:
>
>> Eric G. wrote:
>>> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote in
>>> news:%ezdj.1280$2n4.29783@news1.epix.net:
>>>
>>>> It isn't often that I disagree with your advice, hyundaitech, but I
>>>> must in this case. For traction in water and snow, narrower tires
>>>> with a higher contact pressure are better than are wide tires. Run
>>>> narrower tires and a higher air pressure to minimize hydroplaning
>>>> and maximize traction in both wet and snowy conditions.
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>> Actually, in rain, a greater surface area (i.e., wider tire) is a
>>> better option against hydroplaning. You are right about the snow and
>>> ice though.
>> I am correct on all counts.
>>
>> http://machinedesign.com/ContentItem...ortofwidetires.
> a
>> spx
>>
>> http://priuschat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39003
>>
>> http://www.runtowin.net/Portals/0/CaseStudy1.pdf
>>
>> I can post many more references if these aren't sufficiently
>> convincing.
>>
>> Matt
>
> No, Matt, these are sufficient. My experience has always shown
> otherwise, but I have a feeling that this was more due to the "escape
> path" improving as tire design changes over the years rather than the
> width of tire per se.
>
> Eric

Certainly tread design makes a big difference, but the fact remains that
all else being equal (same tread design, etc.) a wider tire will
hydroplane before a narrow tire will hydroplane. Same holds for snow, a
wider tire is much worse in snow, all else being equal. Now if you are
talking sand or mud, then often a wide tire with low pressure is preferred.

Matt

Brian Nystrom

hyundaitech wrote:
> If you have a manual transmission, it could be a symptom of the clutch and
> accelerator coordination. I haven't liked the feel of the Elantra
> clutches since about 2001, and I believe they take some familiarity before
> they can be operated well.

There's a simple modification that can make a big difference in the feel
of the Elantra's clutch, particularly in terms of consistency. The slave
cylinder has a small valve in it that restricts the fluid flow when you
let out the clutch. Apparently, it's designed to help prevent stalling
if someone lets the clutch out too fast, but more than anything else, it
reduces the feel and consistency of the clutch action. The valve
consists of a plate and a spring that are located at the banjo fitting
for the clutch line. Remove the bolt and they typically fall out, but
they can be removed with a small pick or magnet, if necessary. You need
to bleed the clutch after removing the valve, but overall, it's a 15
minute job that substantially improves the clutch feel. The procedure is
known as a "clutchvalvectomy" and there are DIY instructions on the
Elantra Club website (www.elantraclub.com) and probably other places, too.

hyundaitech

I was under the impression we were talking about wet pavement rather than
standing water (i.e., enough water to require dispersion or to threaten to
cause hydroplaning).

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Matt Whiting

hyundaitech wrote:
> I was under the impression we were talking about wet pavement rather than
> standing water (i.e., enough water to require dispersion or to threaten to
> cause hydroplaning).

It doesn't matter much. Narrower tires with higher pressure are better
on wet pavement with or without standing water. Even a thin film of
water will cause hydroplaning with sufficient speed.

Matt

Leonardo

On Dec 29 2007, 7:48 am, Brian Nystrom <brian.nyst...@verizon.net>
wrote:
> Fantine wrote:
> > I am dissatisfied with the original tires on my 07 Elantra SE (Kumho or
> > something like that). On a wet incline, they have an unfortunate tendency
> > to spin when I start up from a stop at a light, no matter how carefully and
> > gently I accelerate (a problem I only experienced once in the 11 years I had
> > my last car, a Saturn SL2).
>
> Interesting. It must be a problem with the particular tire model, as
> Kumho KH16s are a popular replacement tire for '06 and earlier Elantras
> and are a considered to be a significant performance upgrade from the
> lackluster Michelins they came with. I'll be putting KH16s on my own car
> in the spring.

I only have good to say about Kumho tires. I looked at the KH16s but
decided on the slightly more sedate standard touring KR21s instead in
a narrower and taller size then stock for better snow traction and
hydroplane resistance :-)

They cost half of what I payed for the Bridgestone Turanzas they
replaced and other then in hard cornering they outperform in all
categories

YMMV


L.

Fantine

I didn't mention this before, because my original post was about replacement
tires, but I should say that I do have a replacement tire on the left front.
I picked up a nail in the middle of West Virginia (!) and the only tire I
could get on such short notice was something called a TBC Tempest Touring
Plus from Merchants. I was told it was the closest they had in stock to the
Kumho. Do you think it would help for me to order another Kumho and get rid
of the TBC? Thanks again.

"hyundaitech" <notpublic@not.public.com> wrote in message
news:eaf0845c9e3fe556a23e8e024c8eff95@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> If you have a manual transmission, it could be a symptom of the clutch and
> accelerator coordination. I haven't liked the feel of the Elantra
> clutches since about 2001, and I believe they take some familiarity before
> they can be operated well.
>
> On the other hand, if you have an automatic, I'd say that there may need
> to be less uneasiness about how much the car will roll backward. A little
> practicing in an empty area will help you learn how much and how fast the
> car will move backward on an incline. This, too, is something that varies
> from vehicle to vehicle, and is dependent on engine horsepower and torque
> converter efficiency.
>
> --
> Message posted using
> http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
> More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html
>

Brian Nystrom

Fantine wrote:
> I didn't mention this before, because my original post was about replacement
> tires, but I should say that I do have a replacement tire on the left front.
> I picked up a nail in the middle of West Virginia (!) and the only tire I
> could get on such short notice was something called a TBC Tempest Touring
> Plus from Merchants. I was told it was the closest they had in stock to the
> Kumho. Do you think it would help for me to order another Kumho and get rid
> of the TBC? Thanks again.

Mixing tires is generally a bad idea, as they're never going to perform
the same. Considering that we're talking about front tires on a front
drive car, it's even more important. Just for fun, try moving that tire
to the rear and see how the car performs with matched front tires.

I'm curious as to why they didn't just repair the nail hole in the
original tire. All it takes is a patch on the inside.

hyundaitech

You could do as Brian suggests, or you could have your tires rotated.
Either way, that's the first step in checking to see if there's a
difference. I don't recognize TBC Tempest, so I suspect it's a low-cost
generic tire, which is unlikely to have similar traction characteristics
to your Kumho.

As for the tire repair, it depends on where the puncture is. A puncture
in the sidewall is not repairable safely.

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Fantine

Thanks, I'll get the tire rotated on my next visit to the garage and see
what happens.

"hyundaitech" <notpublic@not.public.com> wrote in message
news:917d2a4ae4aae8310cc01269d1e8a5c9@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> You could do as Brian suggests, or you could have your tires rotated.
> Either way, that's the first step in checking to see if there's a
> difference. I don't recognize TBC Tempest, so I suspect it's a low-cost
> generic tire, which is unlikely to have similar traction characteristics
> to your Kumho.
>
> As for the tire repair, it depends on where the puncture is. A puncture
> in the sidewall is not repairable safely.
>
> --
> Message posted using
> http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
> More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html
>

Brian Nystrom

hyundaitech wrote:

> As for the tire repair, it depends on where the puncture is. A puncture
> in the sidewall is not repairable safely.

I've been in that situation once, but I've also had unscrupulous
mechanics tell me that tread punctures couldn't be repaired, in order to
try to sell me a tire. Fantine's description raised a red flag with me.