POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
Guest
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Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:48:52 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
wrote:
>nothermark wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 11:42:01 -0400, jtees4 <jtees4@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I think it will be gone in about two years. Just won't be necessary
>>>anymore from a Company Standpoint. What do you all think?
>>
>>
>>
>> Why drop it if they are able to maintain their quality and price? You
>> should look into some of what Malcom Baldrigdge preached and the
>> Asians bought into. Total cost of ownership is cheaper to build
>> something right the first time rather than pay for service over the
>> usefull life. Many folks understand that. Detroit ignores it at
>> their peril.
>
>Because it carries the stigma of the cars being low quality if they need
>a warranty that long to sell them. Remember, that almost all extended
>warranties like that have been instituted by car makers who were having
>quality problems (Chrysler with their original 7/70 plan and Hyundai and
>Kia when their stuff was junk).
>
>People tend to associate long warranties with low quality as backward as
>that seems logically!
>
>Matt
Interesting that you say that. Everyone I have told about the Hyundai
warranty looks at it as a statement of quality from Hyundai. Perhaps
they recall that the Rolls Royce warranty was something like the life
of the owner. Perhaps it is a question of knowing the offerer. If
Ford or GM matched Hyundai tomorrow they would be looked upon with
suspicion, if Honda did it would be a recognition of their quality.
;-)
wrote:
>nothermark wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 11:42:01 -0400, jtees4 <jtees4@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I think it will be gone in about two years. Just won't be necessary
>>>anymore from a Company Standpoint. What do you all think?
>>
>>
>>
>> Why drop it if they are able to maintain their quality and price? You
>> should look into some of what Malcom Baldrigdge preached and the
>> Asians bought into. Total cost of ownership is cheaper to build
>> something right the first time rather than pay for service over the
>> usefull life. Many folks understand that. Detroit ignores it at
>> their peril.
>
>Because it carries the stigma of the cars being low quality if they need
>a warranty that long to sell them. Remember, that almost all extended
>warranties like that have been instituted by car makers who were having
>quality problems (Chrysler with their original 7/70 plan and Hyundai and
>Kia when their stuff was junk).
>
>People tend to associate long warranties with low quality as backward as
>that seems logically!
>
>Matt
Interesting that you say that. Everyone I have told about the Hyundai
warranty looks at it as a statement of quality from Hyundai. Perhaps
they recall that the Rolls Royce warranty was something like the life
of the owner. Perhaps it is a question of knowing the offerer. If
Ford or GM matched Hyundai tomorrow they would be looked upon with
suspicion, if Honda did it would be a recognition of their quality.
;-)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
Matt Whiting wrote:
> warranties. So you won't buy a Toyota because the warranty is too short?
Funny you should mention that, as it is one of the reasons that we
purchased a Hyundai instead of a Toyota. (I do know people who have had
problems with Toyotas, they are not quite as magical as some people
seem to believe.) Other reasons would include overall value for the
dollar, plus I frankly do not feel very comfortable purchasing
big-ticket items from a country which attacked us within living memory.
(My barber, who served on a destroyer and dodged kamikazes at the
battle of Okinowa, does not drive a Toyota either.)
> warranties. So you won't buy a Toyota because the warranty is too short?
Funny you should mention that, as it is one of the reasons that we
purchased a Hyundai instead of a Toyota. (I do know people who have had
problems with Toyotas, they are not quite as magical as some people
seem to believe.) Other reasons would include overall value for the
dollar, plus I frankly do not feel very comfortable purchasing
big-ticket items from a country which attacked us within living memory.
(My barber, who served on a destroyer and dodged kamikazes at the
battle of Okinowa, does not drive a Toyota either.)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
Matt Whiting wrote:
> warranties. So you won't buy a Toyota because the warranty is too short?
Funny you should mention that, as it is one of the reasons that we
purchased a Hyundai instead of a Toyota. (I do know people who have had
problems with Toyotas, they are not quite as magical as some people
seem to believe.) Other reasons would include overall value for the
dollar, plus I frankly do not feel very comfortable purchasing
big-ticket items from a country which attacked us within living memory.
(My barber, who served on a destroyer and dodged kamikazes at the
battle of Okinowa, does not drive a Toyota either.)
> warranties. So you won't buy a Toyota because the warranty is too short?
Funny you should mention that, as it is one of the reasons that we
purchased a Hyundai instead of a Toyota. (I do know people who have had
problems with Toyotas, they are not quite as magical as some people
seem to believe.) Other reasons would include overall value for the
dollar, plus I frankly do not feel very comfortable purchasing
big-ticket items from a country which attacked us within living memory.
(My barber, who served on a destroyer and dodged kamikazes at the
battle of Okinowa, does not drive a Toyota either.)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 00:19:59 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
>Sorry, history doesn't support that. Long warranties have always (I
>can't think of a single exception, can you?) been offered by
>manufacturers' who were having quality problems and needed a marketing
>ploy to overcome that.
Well, if Hyundai's boss died and appointed you head of the corporation, what
would YOU do Matt?
Would you offer the worst warranty in the business to prove your cars don't
need it? I bet THAT would bring customers in droves.
--
Bob
>Sorry, history doesn't support that. Long warranties have always (I
>can't think of a single exception, can you?) been offered by
>manufacturers' who were having quality problems and needed a marketing
>ploy to overcome that.
Well, if Hyundai's boss died and appointed you head of the corporation, what
would YOU do Matt?
Would you offer the worst warranty in the business to prove your cars don't
need it? I bet THAT would bring customers in droves.
--
Bob
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 00:19:59 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
>Sorry, history doesn't support that. Long warranties have always (I
>can't think of a single exception, can you?) been offered by
>manufacturers' who were having quality problems and needed a marketing
>ploy to overcome that.
Well, if Hyundai's boss died and appointed you head of the corporation, what
would YOU do Matt?
Would you offer the worst warranty in the business to prove your cars don't
need it? I bet THAT would bring customers in droves.
--
Bob
>Sorry, history doesn't support that. Long warranties have always (I
>can't think of a single exception, can you?) been offered by
>manufacturers' who were having quality problems and needed a marketing
>ploy to overcome that.
Well, if Hyundai's boss died and appointed you head of the corporation, what
would YOU do Matt?
Would you offer the worst warranty in the business to prove your cars don't
need it? I bet THAT would bring customers in droves.
--
Bob
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
Matt Whiting wrote:
> Vineeth wrote:
>
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>> Bob Adkins wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:48:52 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> People tend to associate long warranties with low quality as
>>>>> backward as
>>>>> that seems logically!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I associate it with manufacturers that stand behind their cars.
>>>
>>> I associate it with manufacturers who need to! I'd rather have a Toyota
>>> where I don't have to worry about it. :-)
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>> I really don't think Toyota's & for that matter Hondas are really that
>> great today! We all saw what a mess the new camry transmissions were...
>> I think Bob has a point, Longer warranties just show the confidence a
>> manufacturer has in his vehicles!
>
> Sorry, history doesn't support that. Long warranties have always (I
> can't think of a single exception, can you?) been offered by
> manufacturers' who were having quality problems and needed a marketing
> ploy to overcome that.
I guess my Snap-on tools are just pure crap! Damn that lifetime warranty!
JS
JS
> Vineeth wrote:
>
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>> Bob Adkins wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:48:52 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> People tend to associate long warranties with low quality as
>>>>> backward as
>>>>> that seems logically!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I associate it with manufacturers that stand behind their cars.
>>>
>>> I associate it with manufacturers who need to! I'd rather have a Toyota
>>> where I don't have to worry about it. :-)
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>> I really don't think Toyota's & for that matter Hondas are really that
>> great today! We all saw what a mess the new camry transmissions were...
>> I think Bob has a point, Longer warranties just show the confidence a
>> manufacturer has in his vehicles!
>
> Sorry, history doesn't support that. Long warranties have always (I
> can't think of a single exception, can you?) been offered by
> manufacturers' who were having quality problems and needed a marketing
> ploy to overcome that.
I guess my Snap-on tools are just pure crap! Damn that lifetime warranty!
JS
JS
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
Matt Whiting wrote:
> Vineeth wrote:
>
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>> Bob Adkins wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:48:52 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> People tend to associate long warranties with low quality as
>>>>> backward as
>>>>> that seems logically!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I associate it with manufacturers that stand behind their cars.
>>>
>>> I associate it with manufacturers who need to! I'd rather have a Toyota
>>> where I don't have to worry about it. :-)
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>> I really don't think Toyota's & for that matter Hondas are really that
>> great today! We all saw what a mess the new camry transmissions were...
>> I think Bob has a point, Longer warranties just show the confidence a
>> manufacturer has in his vehicles!
>
> Sorry, history doesn't support that. Long warranties have always (I
> can't think of a single exception, can you?) been offered by
> manufacturers' who were having quality problems and needed a marketing
> ploy to overcome that.
I guess my Snap-on tools are just pure crap! Damn that lifetime warranty!
JS
JS
> Vineeth wrote:
>
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>> Bob Adkins wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:48:52 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> People tend to associate long warranties with low quality as
>>>>> backward as
>>>>> that seems logically!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I associate it with manufacturers that stand behind their cars.
>>>
>>> I associate it with manufacturers who need to! I'd rather have a Toyota
>>> where I don't have to worry about it. :-)
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>> I really don't think Toyota's & for that matter Hondas are really that
>> great today! We all saw what a mess the new camry transmissions were...
>> I think Bob has a point, Longer warranties just show the confidence a
>> manufacturer has in his vehicles!
>
> Sorry, history doesn't support that. Long warranties have always (I
> can't think of a single exception, can you?) been offered by
> manufacturers' who were having quality problems and needed a marketing
> ploy to overcome that.
I guess my Snap-on tools are just pure crap! Damn that lifetime warranty!
JS
JS
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
JS wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> Vineeth wrote:
>>
>>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Adkins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:48:52 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> People tend to associate long warranties with low quality as
>>>>>> backward as
>>>>>> that seems logically!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I associate it with manufacturers that stand behind their cars.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I associate it with manufacturers who need to! I'd rather have a
>>>> Toyota
>>>> where I don't have to worry about it. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> I really don't think Toyota's & for that matter Hondas are really that
>>> great today! We all saw what a mess the new camry transmissions were...
>>> I think Bob has a point, Longer warranties just show the confidence a
>>> manufacturer has in his vehicles!
>>
>>
>> Sorry, history doesn't support that. Long warranties have always (I
>> can't think of a single exception, can you?) been offered by
>> manufacturers' who were having quality problems and needed a marketing
>> ploy to overcome that.
>
>
> I guess my Snap-on tools are just pure crap! Damn that lifetime warranty!
The topic is cars for ... the reading impaired.
Matt
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> Vineeth wrote:
>>
>>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Adkins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:48:52 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> People tend to associate long warranties with low quality as
>>>>>> backward as
>>>>>> that seems logically!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I associate it with manufacturers that stand behind their cars.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I associate it with manufacturers who need to! I'd rather have a
>>>> Toyota
>>>> where I don't have to worry about it. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> I really don't think Toyota's & for that matter Hondas are really that
>>> great today! We all saw what a mess the new camry transmissions were...
>>> I think Bob has a point, Longer warranties just show the confidence a
>>> manufacturer has in his vehicles!
>>
>>
>> Sorry, history doesn't support that. Long warranties have always (I
>> can't think of a single exception, can you?) been offered by
>> manufacturers' who were having quality problems and needed a marketing
>> ploy to overcome that.
>
>
> I guess my Snap-on tools are just pure crap! Damn that lifetime warranty!
The topic is cars for ... the reading impaired.
Matt
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
JS wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> Vineeth wrote:
>>
>>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Adkins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:48:52 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> People tend to associate long warranties with low quality as
>>>>>> backward as
>>>>>> that seems logically!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I associate it with manufacturers that stand behind their cars.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I associate it with manufacturers who need to! I'd rather have a
>>>> Toyota
>>>> where I don't have to worry about it. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> I really don't think Toyota's & for that matter Hondas are really that
>>> great today! We all saw what a mess the new camry transmissions were...
>>> I think Bob has a point, Longer warranties just show the confidence a
>>> manufacturer has in his vehicles!
>>
>>
>> Sorry, history doesn't support that. Long warranties have always (I
>> can't think of a single exception, can you?) been offered by
>> manufacturers' who were having quality problems and needed a marketing
>> ploy to overcome that.
>
>
> I guess my Snap-on tools are just pure crap! Damn that lifetime warranty!
The topic is cars for ... the reading impaired.
Matt
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> Vineeth wrote:
>>
>>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Adkins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:48:52 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> People tend to associate long warranties with low quality as
>>>>>> backward as
>>>>>> that seems logically!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I associate it with manufacturers that stand behind their cars.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I associate it with manufacturers who need to! I'd rather have a
>>>> Toyota
>>>> where I don't have to worry about it. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> I really don't think Toyota's & for that matter Hondas are really that
>>> great today! We all saw what a mess the new camry transmissions were...
>>> I think Bob has a point, Longer warranties just show the confidence a
>>> manufacturer has in his vehicles!
>>
>>
>> Sorry, history doesn't support that. Long warranties have always (I
>> can't think of a single exception, can you?) been offered by
>> manufacturers' who were having quality problems and needed a marketing
>> ploy to overcome that.
>
>
> I guess my Snap-on tools are just pure crap! Damn that lifetime warranty!
The topic is cars for ... the reading impaired.
Matt
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
I think you raise a good point in suggesting that maybe it depends on
who is issuing the warranty and what their reputation was before that
point. I'm biased against Fords because of some bad experiences, so
even with their new-and-improved warranties and pricing, they're not
really on my radar because of that. Perhaps with better pricing and an
even better warranty... nah.
nothermark wrote:
> of the owner. Perhaps it is a question of knowing the offerer. If
> Ford or GM matched Hyundai tomorrow they would be looked upon with
> suspicion, if Honda did it would be a recognition of their quality.
>
> ;-)
who is issuing the warranty and what their reputation was before that
point. I'm biased against Fords because of some bad experiences, so
even with their new-and-improved warranties and pricing, they're not
really on my radar because of that. Perhaps with better pricing and an
even better warranty... nah.
nothermark wrote:
> of the owner. Perhaps it is a question of knowing the offerer. If
> Ford or GM matched Hyundai tomorrow they would be looked upon with
> suspicion, if Honda did it would be a recognition of their quality.
>
> ;-)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
I think you raise a good point in suggesting that maybe it depends on
who is issuing the warranty and what their reputation was before that
point. I'm biased against Fords because of some bad experiences, so
even with their new-and-improved warranties and pricing, they're not
really on my radar because of that. Perhaps with better pricing and an
even better warranty... nah.
nothermark wrote:
> of the owner. Perhaps it is a question of knowing the offerer. If
> Ford or GM matched Hyundai tomorrow they would be looked upon with
> suspicion, if Honda did it would be a recognition of their quality.
>
> ;-)
who is issuing the warranty and what their reputation was before that
point. I'm biased against Fords because of some bad experiences, so
even with their new-and-improved warranties and pricing, they're not
really on my radar because of that. Perhaps with better pricing and an
even better warranty... nah.
nothermark wrote:
> of the owner. Perhaps it is a question of knowing the offerer. If
> Ford or GM matched Hyundai tomorrow they would be looked upon with
> suspicion, if Honda did it would be a recognition of their quality.
>
> ;-)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
Regarding whether I'd dismiss a Toyota simply because its warranty is
below industry average, absolutely. On the off chance that the Toyota
transmission falls out of the vehicle in 5.5 years, is the Toyota name
going to fix it? No, and there is no warranty to remedy the situation.
On the slightly better chance that the Mitsubishi transmission fails
around 9.5 years, will the Mitsubishi name fix it? No, but the 10-year
warranty will.
I understand how you look at it, Matt, but I'd prefer to have a
warranty contract in place for car malfunctions, rather than hoping the
local high-quality car dealer will "goodwill" me a new transmission. I
guess that my faith in quality doesn't extend beyond the length of the
warranty.
Matt Whiting wrote:
> The highest quality cars (Toyota) have fairly short warranties. Also
> the cars that hold their resale value best (Toyota) have fairly short
> warranties. So you won't buy a Toyota because the warranty is too short?
>
> I look at it as the warranty only matters if a car has marginal quality.
> With a Toyota, I wouldn't even care what the warranty was.
>
>
> Matt
below industry average, absolutely. On the off chance that the Toyota
transmission falls out of the vehicle in 5.5 years, is the Toyota name
going to fix it? No, and there is no warranty to remedy the situation.
On the slightly better chance that the Mitsubishi transmission fails
around 9.5 years, will the Mitsubishi name fix it? No, but the 10-year
warranty will.
I understand how you look at it, Matt, but I'd prefer to have a
warranty contract in place for car malfunctions, rather than hoping the
local high-quality car dealer will "goodwill" me a new transmission. I
guess that my faith in quality doesn't extend beyond the length of the
warranty.
Matt Whiting wrote:
> The highest quality cars (Toyota) have fairly short warranties. Also
> the cars that hold their resale value best (Toyota) have fairly short
> warranties. So you won't buy a Toyota because the warranty is too short?
>
> I look at it as the warranty only matters if a car has marginal quality.
> With a Toyota, I wouldn't even care what the warranty was.
>
>
> Matt
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
Regarding whether I'd dismiss a Toyota simply because its warranty is
below industry average, absolutely. On the off chance that the Toyota
transmission falls out of the vehicle in 5.5 years, is the Toyota name
going to fix it? No, and there is no warranty to remedy the situation.
On the slightly better chance that the Mitsubishi transmission fails
around 9.5 years, will the Mitsubishi name fix it? No, but the 10-year
warranty will.
I understand how you look at it, Matt, but I'd prefer to have a
warranty contract in place for car malfunctions, rather than hoping the
local high-quality car dealer will "goodwill" me a new transmission. I
guess that my faith in quality doesn't extend beyond the length of the
warranty.
Matt Whiting wrote:
> The highest quality cars (Toyota) have fairly short warranties. Also
> the cars that hold their resale value best (Toyota) have fairly short
> warranties. So you won't buy a Toyota because the warranty is too short?
>
> I look at it as the warranty only matters if a car has marginal quality.
> With a Toyota, I wouldn't even care what the warranty was.
>
>
> Matt
below industry average, absolutely. On the off chance that the Toyota
transmission falls out of the vehicle in 5.5 years, is the Toyota name
going to fix it? No, and there is no warranty to remedy the situation.
On the slightly better chance that the Mitsubishi transmission fails
around 9.5 years, will the Mitsubishi name fix it? No, but the 10-year
warranty will.
I understand how you look at it, Matt, but I'd prefer to have a
warranty contract in place for car malfunctions, rather than hoping the
local high-quality car dealer will "goodwill" me a new transmission. I
guess that my faith in quality doesn't extend beyond the length of the
warranty.
Matt Whiting wrote:
> The highest quality cars (Toyota) have fairly short warranties. Also
> the cars that hold their resale value best (Toyota) have fairly short
> warranties. So you won't buy a Toyota because the warranty is too short?
>
> I look at it as the warranty only matters if a car has marginal quality.
> With a Toyota, I wouldn't even care what the warranty was.
>
>
> Matt
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
One of the main reasons we bought a new Santa Fe was the warranty. I
figure if Ford, GM and Chrysler. Toyota and Honda don't have enough
faith in their product to warrant it the same as Hyundai, why should I
have any faith in it.
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figure if Ford, GM and Chrysler. Toyota and Honda don't have enough
faith in their product to warrant it the same as Hyundai, why should I
have any faith in it.
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: POLL: How long do you think the 10 year Warranty will last?
One of the main reasons we bought a new Santa Fe was the warranty. I
figure if Ford, GM and Chrysler. Toyota and Honda don't have enough
faith in their product to warrant it the same as Hyundai, why should I
have any faith in it.
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
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figure if Ford, GM and Chrysler. Toyota and Honda don't have enough
faith in their product to warrant it the same as Hyundai, why should I
have any faith in it.
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com