Edwin Pawlowski

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>
> According to this, the 2006 had an overdrive 5th gear. I can't believe
> that did away with that for the 2007 model.
>
> http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kit...ifications.asp
>
> Matt

Overdrive is a meaningless term today anyway. The final drive ratio is what
matters, and having enough engine torque to move the car at the desired
speed. .

Matt Whiting

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>> According to this, the 2006 had an overdrive 5th gear. I can't believe
>> that did away with that for the 2007 model.
>>
>> http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kit...ifications.asp
>>
>> Matt
>
> Overdrive is a meaningless term today anyway. The final drive ratio is what
> matters, and having enough engine torque to move the car at the desired
> speed. .

Overdrive has the same meaning today as it has always had.

And the overall drive ratio has always been what has mattered.

Matt

Edwin Pawlowski

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>
> Overdrive has the same meaning today as it has always had.

In the dictionary, yes. As a means of being more economical or saving
engine wear, not necessarly.
Putting a .90 overdrive grear in a car then changing the rear from 3.08 to a
3.36 so it won't lug won't save you anything


>
> And the overall drive ratio has always been what has mattered.
>
> Matt

Exactly. Which is more economical, a regular trans with a 1:1 high gear and
a 3.08 rear of a 4.56 with overdrive? Arguments can be made for both being
best for different reasons but a blanket statement that "overdrive is
better" is not correct. Engines have changed too, with differing power and
torque curves than the Blue Flame 6.

What gear is "best" varies depending on needs. I sometimes use a Chevy
Silverado with a 5 speed and we rarely put any weight in it. IMO, the
gearing sucks for our use, but is probably great for the guy that always
hauls 800+ pounds of material. Cruises at 70 at a fairly low RPM, but 90%
of its use is below 35 mph. At about 45, 4th is too low, 5th is too high.

Mike Marlow

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:JQeii.11128$Oc.273670@news1.epix.net...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>>> According to this, the 2006 had an overdrive 5th gear. I can't believe
>>> that did away with that for the 2007 model.
>>>
>>> http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kit...ifications.asp
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>> Overdrive is a meaningless term today anyway. The final drive ratio is
>> what matters, and having enough engine torque to move the car at the
>> desired speed. .
>
> Overdrive has the same meaning today as it has always had.
>
> And the overall drive ratio has always been what has mattered.
>
> Matt

Correct. Overdrive is anything over a nominal 1:1. Still a very meaningful
term today. As has always been the case, final drive ratio is the key, but
overdrive determines what that ratio translates to in mileage - and
performance.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Mike Marlow

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news:KJiii.7916$Rw1.7303@newssvr25.news.prodigy.ne t...
>
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>>
>> Overdrive has the same meaning today as it has always had.
>
> In the dictionary, yes. As a means of being more economical or saving
> engine wear, not necessarly.
> Putting a .90 overdrive grear in a car then changing the rear from 3.08 to
> a 3.36 so it won't lug won't save you anything
>
>
>>
>> And the overall drive ratio has always been what has mattered.
>>
>> Matt
>
> Exactly. Which is more economical, a regular trans with a 1:1 high gear
> and a 3.08 rear of a 4.56 with overdrive?

Don't know - what is the overdrive ratio? You're leaving out pieces of the
equation Edwin.

> Arguments can be made for both being best for different reasons but a
> blanket statement that "overdrive is better" is not correct. Engines have
> changed too, with differing power and torque curves than the Blue Flame 6.

Overdrive is overdrive Edwin. It's an overdrive for a given rear end ratio.
It's what takes you past 1:1. Overdrive is indeed better - when you're
talking the realm of overdrive, which is economy. Regardless of final
ration, overdrive is better.

>
> What gear is "best" varies depending on needs. I sometimes use a Chevy
> Silverado with a 5 speed and we rarely put any weight in it. IMO, the
> gearing sucks for our use, but is probably great for the guy that always
> hauls 800+ pounds of material. Cruises at 70 at a fairly low RPM, but 90%
> of its use is below 35 mph. At about 45, 4th is too low, 5th is too high.
>

Yeahbut, that has nothing to do with overdrive. That's just a matter of the
wrong vehicle.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Matt Whiting

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>> Overdrive has the same meaning today as it has always had.
>
> In the dictionary, yes. As a means of being more economical or saving
> engine wear, not necessarly.
> Putting a .90 overdrive grear in a car then changing the rear from 3.08 to a
> 3.36 so it won't lug won't save you anything

It means the same in the dictionary and in practice as it did 20 years
ago. Tell me how it was different 20 years ago?


>> And the overall drive ratio has always been what has mattered.
>>
>> Matt
>
> Exactly. Which is more economical, a regular trans with a 1:1 high gear and
> a 3.08 rear of a 4.56 with overdrive? Arguments can be made for both being
> best for different reasons but a blanket statement that "overdrive is
> better" is not correct. Engines have changed too, with differing power and
> torque curves than the Blue Flame 6.

I never said overdrive was better. I just said it means the same now as
it ever did, and that is simply that the transmission has ratios less
than 1:1. That is all it ever meant, no more and no less. And it means
exactly the same thing today.

Matt

Edwin Pawlowski

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net> wrote in message
>>
>> Exactly. Which is more economical, a regular trans with a 1:1 high gear
>> and a 3.08 rear of a 4.56 with overdrive?
>
> Don't know - what is the overdrive ratio? You're leaving out pieces of
> the equation Edwin.

Yes, I did for a reason. The person that stated he wished he had overdrive
made his statement without saying anything more. My point is, having
overdrive is not necessarily a benefit. It may be, in the right engine and
gear combination, but it may hurt performance in other combinations. There
are many factors to take into consideration. Putting in a very high gear
ration in and of itself is the necessarily a good thing.

Edwin Pawlowski

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
news:O8jii.11132$Oc.273623@news1.epix.net...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>>> Overdrive has the same meaning today as it has always had.
>>
>> In the dictionary, yes. As a means of being more economical or saving
>> engine wear, not necessarly.
>> Putting a .90 overdrive grear in a car then changing the rear from 3.08
>> to a 3.36 so it won't lug won't save you anything
>
> It means the same in the dictionary and in practice as it did 20 years
> ago. Tell me how it was different 20 years ago?

I'm talking in practice, not in dictionary terms. Years ago, you paid extra
for an "Overdrive" transmission and it was used on the highway to save gas.
In practical terms, using overdrive today is not necessarily a good or a bad
thing and it may not be best for a particular car. To say, as the poster did
"I whish it had overdrive" is without merit unless you know if the car is
going to perform properly with a higher gear ratio. It is did, the economy
conscious car makers would put it in so they can get a higher number of that
window sticker. If you are putting five gears in a transmission, it matters
little cost wise what the ratio is, but it matters greatly on performance.

Just like having 8 cylinders today. Most 6's will out perform the small
block V-8's of years ago. Or a turbocharged 4. Just having a certain number
of cylinders does not ensure a given performance level.

Leonardo

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> news:JQeii.11128$Oc.273670@news1.epix.net...
>> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>>>> According to this, the 2006 had an overdrive 5th gear. I can't believe
>>>> that did away with that for the 2007 model.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kit...ifications.asp
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>> Overdrive is a meaningless term today anyway. The final drive ratio is
>>> what matters, and having enough engine torque to move the car at the
>>> desired speed. .
>> Overdrive has the same meaning today as it has always had.
>>
>> And the overall drive ratio has always been what has mattered.
>>
>> Matt
>
> Correct. Overdrive is anything over a nominal 1:1. Still a very meaningful
> term today. As has always been the case, final drive ratio is the key, but
> overdrive determines what that ratio translates to in mileage - and
> performance.
>

Maybe they ought to re-invent freewheeling.

L.

Edwin Pawlowski

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net> wrote in message
>
> Correct. Overdrive is anything over a nominal 1:1. Still a very
> meaningful term today. As has always been the case, final drive ratio is
> the key, but overdrive determines what that ratio translates to in
> mileage - and performance.
>

Overdrive is a term meaning the transmission high gear ratio is greater than
1:1. The final drive gear ratio determines mileage and performance,
overdrive or not. Having an overdrive ratio in the transmission does not
bestow magical qualities in and of itself. It is merely a part of an
engineered package.

Number or cylinders is not a measure of mileage or performance either. Nor
do many other popular misconceptions such as imported cars are small and get
better gas mileage. Or that Jaguars are unreliable. Oh, wait, that one is
true.

Matt Whiting

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net> wrote in message
>> Correct. Overdrive is anything over a nominal 1:1. Still a very
>> meaningful term today. As has always been the case, final drive ratio is
>> the key, but overdrive determines what that ratio translates to in
>> mileage - and performance.
>>
>
> Overdrive is a term meaning the transmission high gear ratio is greater than
> 1:1. The final drive gear ratio determines mileage and performance,
> overdrive or not. Having an overdrive ratio in the transmission does not
> bestow magical qualities in and of itself. It is merely a part of an
> engineered package.

I believe overdrive is a ratio LESS than 1:1, not greater than.

Matt

Edwin Pawlowski

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>
> I believe overdrive is a ratio LESS than 1:1, not greater than.
>
> Matt

Yes, I was thinking in terms of low (first gear) and high, in which case it
is higher

Matt Whiting

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>> I believe overdrive is a ratio LESS than 1:1, not greater than.
>>
>> Matt
>
> Yes, I was thinking in terms of low (first gear) and high, in which case it
> is higher
>
>

Yes, people refer to the gears as high or low, but the actual ratio is
lower for higher gears.

Matt

Edwin Pawlowski

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
newsXwii.11140$Oc.273925@news1.epix.net...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>>> I believe overdrive is a ratio LESS than 1:1, not greater than.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>> Yes, I was thinking in terms of low (first gear) and high, in which case
>> it is higher
>
> Yes, people refer to the gears as high or low, but the actual ratio is
> lower for higher gears.
>
> Matt

Unless you are standing on the other side of it.

Aeschylus

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news:_Bpii.45017$5j1.13680@newssvr21.news.prodigy. net...
>
> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>> Exactly. Which is more economical, a regular trans with a 1:1 high gear
>>> and a 3.08 rear of a 4.56 with overdrive?
>>
>> Don't know - what is the overdrive ratio? You're leaving out pieces of
>> the equation Edwin.
>
> Yes, I did for a reason. The person that stated he wished he had
> overdrive made his statement without saying anything more. My point is,
> having overdrive is not necessarily a benefit. It may be, in the right
> engine and gear combination, but it may hurt performance in other
> combinations. There are many factors to take into consideration. Putting
> in a very high gear ration in and of itself is the necessarily a good
> thing.

I made the original comment about wishing for an overdrive. Since 5th gear
apprently technically is an overdrive, what I should have said is that I
wish the Elantra had a 6th gear. To me, it just feels like it needs one
spinning 3000 RPM before it even gets to 70.

A.