den630

I have a 2004 Elantra GT 2.0 5 speed with 45000
miles. I'm looking for recommendations on which plugs
to use in this car. Thanks for any help.

Edwin Pawlowski

"den630" <den630@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:T_w4h.9379$sw6.5707@trndny08...
>I have a 2004 Elantra GT 2.0 5 speed with 45000
> miles. I'm looking for recommendations on which plugs
> to use in this car. Thanks for any help.

Probably the ones already in there. What is the recommended change
interval? Most plugs last 100k today.

Brian Nystrom

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "den630" <den630@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:T_w4h.9379$sw6.5707@trndny08...
>> I have a 2004 Elantra GT 2.0 5 speed with 45000
>> miles. I'm looking for recommendations on which plugs
>> to use in this car. Thanks for any help.
>
> Probably the ones already in there. What is the recommended change
> interval? Most plugs last 100k today.

NGK V-Power plugs work well and are inexpensive (under $2 each). They'll
last 15-30K miles and are the most cost-effective plugs. I installed a
set at 45K miles and the car runs great with them.

Platinum plugs (that's what came in our cars) are more expensive, but
last 30-60K miles. Iridium plugs last the longest - up to 100K miles) -
but the price is outrageous and they offer no other advantages.

Edwin Pawlowski

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> NGK V-Power plugs work well and are inexpensive (under $2 each). They'll
> last 15-30K miles and are the most cost-effective plugs. I installed a set
> at 45K miles and the car runs great with them.
>
> Platinum plugs (that's what came in our cars) are more expensive, but last
> 30-60K miles. Iridium plugs last the longest - up to 100K miles) - but the
> price is outrageous and they offer no other advantages.

Depends on how you define "cost effective". As for cost per mile of the
equipment, yes. As for the labor involved on some cars, you want the
longest lasting plugs available. Many 4 cylinders are a piece of cake to
change. Some of hte 6 and 8 cylinder require a lot of contortions, loosening
motor mounts etc, to access them. You certainly don't want to have to go
through that every 15,000 miles.

On my LeSabre, I'd have gone through at least 4 sets of the NGK you
recommend. I just took out the originals at 120,000 and five years and
replaced plugs and wires and I'm now set for the rest of the life of that
car. My Regal had one plug change in 16 years. For me, that is cost
effective.

hyundaitech

Use a good name brand platinum plug that meets the heat range
specifications. I recommend either NGK or Denso. There's no reason to
pay dealer prices for the plugs. The same plugs will be available
elsewhere at a significantly lower price.

news-server

"den630" <den630@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:T_w4h.9379$sw6.5707@trndny08...
>I have a 2004 Elantra GT 2.0 5 speed with 45000
> miles. I'm looking for recommendations on which plugs
> to use in this car. Thanks for any help.
>
>
Speaking of changing plugs, I have an '03 Elantra and have changed the
plugs every 15K due to starting problems. At 13K on the original plugs
the car became very hard to start, the Hyundai dealer could not find the
problem and recommended a 'head cleaning'?? which was not covered
under warranty, I then replaced the plugs and it gradually started
starting
better and after about a week it was like new. I now have 53K on the car
and
I am on my 4th set of plugs due to this starting problem which is fixed by
replacing the plugs. Not happy about this but at least the plugs are very
easy to replace.

Matt Whiting

news-server wrote:
> "den630" <den630@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:T_w4h.9379$sw6.5707@trndny08...
>
>>I have a 2004 Elantra GT 2.0 5 speed with 45000
>>miles. I'm looking for recommendations on which plugs
>>to use in this car. Thanks for any help.
>>
>>
>
> Speaking of changing plugs, I have an '03 Elantra and have changed the
> plugs every 15K due to starting problems. At 13K on the original plugs
> the car became very hard to start, the Hyundai dealer could not find the
> problem and recommended a 'head cleaning'?? which was not covered
> under warranty, I then replaced the plugs and it gradually started
> starting
> better and after about a week it was like new. I now have 53K on the car
> and
> I am on my 4th set of plugs due to this starting problem which is fixed by
> replacing the plugs. Not happy about this but at least the plugs are very
> easy to replace.

I think that something else is going on here. This isn't a spark plug
problem. Spark plugs don't get better after you install them so if the
starting "gradually got better" then it wasn't the plugs that did it. A
new spark plug is as good as it gets and they don't get better with age.

And a modern car engine will run way longer than 15K on a set of plugs,
even the cheapest plugs.

Do you do a lot of short trips? 53K isn't much in 4 years, but it
sounds like you drive the car fairly often. If that is the case, then I
suspect you have a faulty sensor or something going on here. It isn't
just the spark plugs, I'm 90% sure of that.

Maybe hyundaitech has an idea here.

Matt

hyundaitech

I'd need to know more about the starting problem to offer much of a
solution. I.e., does it crank not start; does it crank too long before
starting; does it run poorly when started?

Brian Nystrom

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> NGK V-Power plugs work well and are inexpensive (under $2 each). They'll
>> last 15-30K miles and are the most cost-effective plugs. I installed a set
>> at 45K miles and the car runs great with them.
>>
>> Platinum plugs (that's what came in our cars) are more expensive, but last
>> 30-60K miles. Iridium plugs last the longest - up to 100K miles) - but the
>> price is outrageous and they offer no other advantages.
>
> Depends on how you define "cost effective". As for cost per mile of the
> equipment, yes. As for the labor involved on some cars, you want the
> longest lasting plugs available. Many 4 cylinders are a piece of cake to
> change. Some of hte 6 and 8 cylinder require a lot of contortions, loosening
> motor mounts etc, to access them. You certainly don't want to have to go
> through that every 15,000 miles.
>
> On my LeSabre, I'd have gone through at least 4 sets of the NGK you
> recommend. I just took out the originals at 120,000 and five years and
> replaced plugs and wires and I'm now set for the rest of the life of that
> car. My Regal had one plug change in 16 years. For me, that is cost
> effective.

That's all true, but we're talking about an Elantra, which is as easy to
change plugs on as any car I've ever owned. Frankly, it would be silly
to pay someone to change the plugs on one, as it's a simple, basic DIY
job that takes all of fifteen minutes.

Wayne Moses

Reply to message from Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> (Thu, 09
Nov 2006 07:17:37) about "Re: spark plugs":

BN> Platinum plugs (that's what came in our cars) are more expensive, but
BN> last
BN> 30-60K miles.

I liked Bosch Platinum Plus 4 plugs for my 2002 EGT then I had it. Good
performance and a design not as prone to fouling as the conventional
design.

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <wmoses@houston.rr.com> Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:38:34 -0600

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 3.3

Wayne Moses

Reply to message from "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> (Thu, 09 Nov 2006
09:39:40) about "Re: spark plugs":

EP> As for the labor
EP> involved on some cars, you want the longest lasting plugs available.
EP> Many 4 cylinders are a piece of cake to change. Some of hte 6 and 8
EP> cylinder require a lot of contortions, loosening motor mounts etc, to
EP> access them.

I agree with you. Transversely mounted V engines call for long-lasting
plugs and for me the expense is well justified. When I have to change the
plugs on my Tiburon v6 I would probably go with the Bosch Platinum Plus 4s
again.

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <wmoses@houston.rr.com> Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:43:11 -0600

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 3.3

Brian Nystrom

Wayne Moses wrote:
> Reply to message from Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> (Thu, 09
> Nov 2006 07:17:37) about "Re: spark plugs":
>
> BN> Platinum plugs (that's what came in our cars) are more expensive, but
> BN> last
> BN> 30-60K miles.
>
> I liked Bosch Platinum Plus 4 plugs for my 2002 EGT then I had it. Good
> performance and a design not as prone to fouling as the conventional
> design.

I'm curious, have you had a fouled plug anytime recently? I can't
remember having a single plug problem since carburetors went the way of
the dinosaur. The last time I can recall was in an '85 Colt that had sat
idle for so long that the carburetor was all gummed up and had to be
rebuilt to cure a flooding problem. I don't recall ever having a problem
on a fuel injected engine.

I'm also not convinced that multiple-ground-electrode plugs offer any
advantages, other than to the bank account of the manufacturer. The more
ground electrodes you have, the greater the amount of the spark that's
shielded from the air/fuel mixture. That REDUCES ignition efficiency,
rather than increasing it as is often claimed.

As for fouling, if one electrode becomes bridged with carbon, none of
them will work, as the plug is directly grounded by the carbon and there
will be no spark. With each additional electrode, the odds are INCREASED
that one of them will become bridged. Rather than providing redundant
backup - as the bogus claims of some manufacturers imply - the extra
electrodes actually DECREASE the reliability of the plug. In the case of
a flooded engine, all the electrodes will be wet, so it's hard to see
where they would be of any benefit.

I've tried a couple of multiple-ground-electrode plugs (including the
Plus 4s) and although I had no trouble with them, there was no
performance gain compared with single-ground-electrode plugs. I WAS out
considerably more money, however. That's why I now use the NGK V-Power
plugs; they're inexpensive and they work great.

Edwin Pawlowski

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message >
> I'm also not convinced that multiple-ground-electrode plugs offer any
> advantages, other than to the bank account of the manufacturer. The more
> ground electrodes you have, the greater the amount of the spark that's
> shielded from the air/fuel mixture. That REDUCES ignition efficiency,
> rather than increasing it as is often claimed.

Why would it be shielded? The spark is between the tip and electrode and a
portion will be behind it, another portion ahead, another portion right
across. While one good spark will get the job done, I don't see that four
would be a hinderence. No necesarly better though, as you point out.

>
> I've tried a couple of multiple-ground-electrode plugs (including the Plus
> 4s) and although I had no trouble with them, there was no performance gain
> compared with single-ground-electrode plugs. I WAS out considerably more
> money, however. That's why I now use the NGK V-Power plugs; they're
> inexpensive and they work great.

The only advantage of any plug that is "better" would be longer life. The
less you have to change, the less time spent tinkering and possibly damaging
a wire that you pull off. I agree about performance on a good plug. I had
the LeSabre plugs changed at 120,000 miles (they are rated for 100k) since
the car was in the shop. Performance change with the new plugs was ZERO. I
had no problems leading up to that point.

More powerful ignition, unleaded gas, fuel injection, computers, sure make
for much better performance than years ago. Cleaning plugs at 3 - 5
thousand was common, replacing at 8 to 10 thousand miles. Every shop had a
sand blast machine that was made just for plugs. I don't miss adjusting
points either.

hyundaitech

"Why would it be shielded? The spark is between the tip and electrode and
a
portion will be behind it, another portion ahead, another portion right
across. While one good spark will get the job done, I don't see that
four

would be a hinderence. No necesarly better though, as you point out."


Four electrodes don't make four sparks. They only make one. The spark
jumps whatever gap offers the least resistance.

Brian Nystrom

hyundaitech wrote:
> "Why would it be shielded? The spark is between the tip and electrode and
> a
> portion will be behind it, another portion ahead, another portion right
> across. While one good spark will get the job done, I don't see that
> four
>
> would be a hinderence. No necesarly better though, as you point out."
>
>
> Four electrodes don't make four sparks. They only make one. The spark
> jumps whatever gap offers the least resistance.

Exactly. All the other electrodes do is block the path of the flame
front as it moves outward from the ignition point. They are unnecessary,
detrimental and therefore pointless.

About the only thing one can do to an ignition system that has any
potential to improve it is to go with a multiple-spark system, where
more than one spark (typically 4 at low revs and 2 at higher revs) is
generated within milliseconds of each other at each plug. This is common
practice in racing engines, though the benefits in the less harsh
environment of normally-aspirated street engines would probably be
marginal at best.