Dave in Lake Villa

'and run 5,000 mile changes when the vehicle has less than 100,000 miles
and 10,000 mile change intervals once past 100,000.'

REPLY: Whats the purpose of going longer in duration as the mileage
increases past 100 k ?

Matt Whiting

Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
> 'and run 5,000 mile changes when the vehicle has less than 100,000 miles
> and 10,000 mile change intervals once past 100,000.'
>
> REPLY: Whats the purpose of going longer in duration as the mileage
> increases past 100 k ?

In many vehicles I've owned the powertrain warranty ran at least 70,000
miles and the Hyundai is 100,000 and 10K exceeds the manufacturers
service interval for most vehicles. So the main reason is to avoid any
potential warranty excuses.

The other reason is that the value of the vehicle is pretty well down
after 100K and my risk tolerance is thus higher. Although, so far I've
not had a single vehicle of the 6 or so that I've done this with that
showed any signs of distress with 10K change intervals.


Matt

NickNike

"hyundaitech" <notpublic@not.public.com> wrote in message
news:4cb5a540b55ce1437a8dd6709947b3b6@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
>I don't have an owner's manual to check at the moment, so I cannot say. I
> figured this was an exercise that Nick could undertake himself. But if
> someone here wants to actually look this up in their 2006 Sonata Owner's
> Manual, I'd be happy to hear the results.
>

Hi, I mention this in my original message, being
The UK car manual states SAE 5W-20, 5W-30.

I've homed-in on Amsoil 5W-30. This complies with the manual and I found a
place in the UK that sells for a reasonable price.
The specification looks pretty impressive as well.
I want to use a good oil to keep my options open. I might keep the car for
many years.

I'm still intrigued that some car manufacturers fill their new vehicles with
synthetic oil. According to several sources on the net, synthetic is too
good at lubrication to allow for correct break-in, hence it is preferable to
break-in with mineral oil. Or is this all hogwash?

I trust there are no subtle problems using Amsoil oil with a new Hyundai oil
filter cartridge.

cheers,
nick

Dave in Lake Villa

'According to several sources on the net, synthetic is too good at
lubrication to allow for correct break-in, hence it is preferable to
break-in with mineral oil. Or is this all hogwash?'

REPLY: Ive heard that you can use synthetic from the start but it just
requires a longer breakin period. Many new higher performance cars use
Mobil 1 from the factory including Corvette.

Matt Whiting

Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
> 'According to several sources on the net, synthetic is too good at
> lubrication to allow for correct break-in, hence it is preferable to
> break-in with mineral oil. Or is this all hogwash?'
>
> REPLY: Ive heard that you can use synthetic from the start but it just
> requires a longer breakin period. Many new higher performance cars use
> Mobil 1 from the factory including Corvette.
>

There has been a lot of discussion about whether synthetic is more
slippery than dino oil, but I've yet to see anything definitive. One
data point that suggests that this is a myth is synthetic oil is
approved for us in motorcycles that use wet clutches. However, I used
it in my Kawasaki Voyager and the clutch developed a shudder as it
engaged. It never outright slipped once fully engaged, but the
engagement wasn't as smooth. I switched back to dino oil and the
probably largely disappeared, although it never went back to normal
completely.

I suspect the difference in slipperiness is small, otherwise, wet
clutches wouldn't work with synthetic oil as they are quit sensitive to
the slipperiness of the oil they are bathed in.

I can't support it with data, but my opinion is that the break-in issues
are mostly myth as with many other aspects of synthetics. Most new cars
don't require much of a break-in anyway.

Matt

Edwin Pawlowski

"Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
> There has been a lot of discussion about whether synthetic is more
> slippery than dino oil, but I've yet to see anything definitive. One data
> point that suggests that this is a myth is synthetic oil is approved for
> us in motorcycles that use wet clutches.

Slipperiness may be the wrong term. It certainly does give better
protection at high rpm though.

Some years ago I used to fly RC model airplanes with methanol based fueled 2
cycle engines. They'd run at 15,000 to 20,000 rpm. With synthetic
lubricants, we'd be able to get an extra 2 to 3 thousand rpm more and it
would run that way for a full tank whereas the regular oils would allow the
engine to overheat and stop. Based on what we did, I'm convinced that
synthetics offer superior performance. Given the quality of dino oils
though, I'm not convinced that normal engines under normal driving
conditions actually need it. If you like to play in the high rpm ranges, go
for it.

Matt Whiting

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message
>> There has been a lot of discussion about whether synthetic is more
>> slippery than dino oil, but I've yet to see anything definitive. One data
>> point that suggests that this is a myth is synthetic oil is approved for
>> us in motorcycles that use wet clutches.
>
> Slipperiness may be the wrong term. It certainly does give better
> protection at high rpm though.
>
> Some years ago I used to fly RC model airplanes with methanol based fueled 2
> cycle engines. They'd run at 15,000 to 20,000 rpm. With synthetic
> lubricants, we'd be able to get an extra 2 to 3 thousand rpm more and it
> would run that way for a full tank whereas the regular oils would allow the
> engine to overheat and stop. Based on what we did, I'm convinced that
> synthetics offer superior performance. Given the quality of dino oils
> though, I'm not convinced that normal engines under normal driving
> conditions actually need it. If you like to play in the high rpm ranges, go
> for it.

Yes, no question that synthetics behave much better at high
temperatures. Even if they aren't more slippery than dino oil, they
maintain their slipperiness much better when the oil temps get above 300
degrees. I think that is pretty well known. I'm just not sure if they
have any real advantage in this regard at normal oil temps in the 180 to
220 range.

Matt

Bob Adkins

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:29:57 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net>
wrote:

>> 1) Anyone have any comments about this oil?
>> The car manual states SAE 5W-20, 5W-30.
>> I'm wondering if 5W-40 will still be ok?
>
>Do you think your dealer knows better than the high priced, silled,
>experienced engineers that designed the engine? They specify a particular
>weight for a reason so why chance something else?

Well said Ed. My dealer used 20W50 at my 1st oil change. I nearly
freaked when I read it on the itemized bill. When I questioned him
about it, he said it was "better than the oil Hyundai recommended".
Holy schmoly! I drove straight home and changed to 10w30, which is on
the recommended list, and I think is better for my hot climate than
the water-thin 5W.

I think there's a place for Synthetic. If you intend to drive the car
250K miles, or you live in a brutally cold climate, I think it's worth
the extra bucks.
-

Bob

Bob Adkins

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:34:26 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net>
wrote:


>Some years ago I used to fly RC model airplanes with methanol based fueled 2
>cycle engines. They'd run at 15,000 to 20,000 rpm. With synthetic
>lubricants, we'd be able to get an extra 2 to 3 thousand rpm more and it
>would run that way for a full tank whereas the regular oils would allow the
>engine to overheat and stop.

Red Max is the real deal!
-

Bob

Matt Whiting

Bob Adkins wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:29:57 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> 1) Anyone have any comments about this oil?
>>> The car manual states SAE 5W-20, 5W-30.
>>> I'm wondering if 5W-40 will still be ok?
>> Do you think your dealer knows better than the high priced, silled,
>> experienced engineers that designed the engine? They specify a particular
>> weight for a reason so why chance something else?
>
> Well said Ed. My dealer used 20W50 at my 1st oil change. I nearly
> freaked when I read it on the itemized bill. When I questioned him
> about it, he said it was "better than the oil Hyundai recommended".
> Holy schmoly! I drove straight home and changed to 10w30, which is on
> the recommended list, and I think is better for my hot climate than
> the water-thin 5W.

The 5W applies at the cold end. At the hot end, they are both 30 weight
so there is no difference.

Matt

Brian Nystrom

Bob Adkins wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:29:57 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> 1) Anyone have any comments about this oil?
>>> The car manual states SAE 5W-20, 5W-30.
>>> I'm wondering if 5W-40 will still be ok?
>> Do you think your dealer knows better than the high priced, silled,
>> experienced engineers that designed the engine? They specify a particular
>> weight for a reason so why chance something else?
>
> Well said Ed. My dealer used 20W50 at my 1st oil change. I nearly
> freaked when I read it on the itemized bill. When I questioned him
> about it, he said it was "better than the oil Hyundai recommended".
> Holy schmoly! I drove straight home and changed to 10w30, which is on
> the recommended list, and I think is better for my hot climate than
> the water-thin 5W.
>
> I think there's a place for Synthetic. If you intend to drive the car
> 250K miles, or you live in a brutally cold climate, I think it's worth
> the extra bucks.

Your dealer is an idiot. Find another one or just do your own maintenance.

Steve R.

I concur with HT. As an ex-mechanic, I really saw no difference in engine
longevity between the dino/syn oil bases.

Much like HT, I try to get all the life I can from my cars, and I have to
say that oil changes at the 3k mark here in hot/dusty AZ contributes to
engine life. My 92 Nissan Sentra had 248k miles on it (still kick myself for
selling it!) when I sold it off. No leaks, no oil burn, and still plenty of
performance from the DOHC 16 valve 4 cyl which was still getting 34 mpg. I
did replace the front main seal at 110k though.

I agree in COLD climates that syn oils may help at startup, but both of my
vehicles are garaged and really aren't exposed to cold climate.

On another group I belong to (Nissan Quest/Mercury Villager) this topic came
up and oh boy!!!!

General consensus was that if dino works for you, rock on. If you like syn,
rock on. However, all those telemarketing cats from the 90s (Slick 50, etc.)
are still settling lawsuits from all of their bs claims.

Just my .02...

Great group and HT, you rock!!

"HT for prez!"

Steve- AZ



"hyundaitech" <notpublic@not.public.com> wrote in message
news:bb646544cae2af39b792b1b9a47ba690@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> Definitely use only what's recommended in the owner's manual. According
> to
> the U.S. shop manual, the specified oil is 5W-20, grade SJ or better.
> 5W-30 is listed as an acceptable oil. So I'd recommend using 5W-20 if you
> can find it, and if not, 5W-30.
>
> It's my personal opinion that there's no significant advantage to
> synthetic oil if you use normal oil change intervals. In addition,
> manuafacturers don't allow longer intervals because synthetic is used.
> I've driven cars up to 328,000 miles on dino oil. And that particular car
> never once had an oil-related failure. In every case where I was able to
> verify the mileage on the engine, I've achieved over 200,000 miles on
> every engine, and only one (out of four) had an oil-related failure.
>
>

Mike Marlow

"Steve R." <sarinaz@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:EbUfi.11000$B25.2990@news01.roc.ny...

>
> I agree in COLD climates that syn oils may help at startup, but both of my
> vehicles are garaged and really aren't exposed to cold climate.
>

In the cold North East (upstate NY), I've stuck with dino oil over the
years. My truck is a 94 Silverado with a 350 and it sits outside all year
long. Starts right up without a hitch every day, winter or summer. No
signs of problems with cold related oil thickening even in the coldest of
winter. I keep 5W30 in it all year long. I'm also a guy who keeps his
vehicles for over 200K

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Bob Adkins

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 02:22:23 GMT, Brian Nystrom
<brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:


>Your dealer is an idiot. Find another one or just do your own maintenance.

You've got that right Brian!

That was the fist oil change.

No 2, they shorted me 4.75 Qt's. of oil. (!!!)

No 3, they shorted me 1.5 Qt's. of oil.

No 4, I went to my local "Oil X-Press", where they've never made a
mistake in 20 years. They did a perfect job.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me 3
times, uh, shame on Matt.

-

Bob

Bob Adkins

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:54:28 GMT, "Steve R." <sarinaz@frontiernet.net>
wrote:



>"HT for prez!"

Uh... You mean he isn't?
-

Bob