Throttle on a 2008 Elantra
01-29-2010, 11:54 AM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Throttle on a 2008 Elantra
"---MIKE---" <twinmountain@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:12665-4B62DBF0-1876@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
Does my car have a "drive by wire' throttle or a cable arrangement?
---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')
Probably, if it does not you'd see the linkage from the pedal leading to the
firewall.
Most cars are going to that sort of setup as computers control so much now,
to keep the engine running at top efficiency. IIRC, Airbus was the first to
use a "fly by wire" system some years ago.
Something we should all do though, is mentally practice what to do if the
throttle malfunctions. Toyota has had 2200 reported instances, 200+
accidents and 18 deaths. You shift into neutral and steer to the side of
the road and stop. I'm sure most of the accidents are due to panic. Be
sure other drivers in your house are aware of what to do.
01-29-2010, 04:11 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Throttle on a 2008 Elantra
On 1/29/2010 11:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "---MIKE---"<twinmountain@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:12665-4B62DBF0-1876@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
> Does my car have a "drive by wire' throttle or a cable arrangement?
>
>
> ---MIKE---
>>> In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
> >> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')
>
>
> Probably, if it does not you'd see the linkage from the pedal leading to the
> firewall.
>
> Most cars are going to that sort of setup as computers control so much now,
> to keep the engine running at top efficiency. IIRC, Airbus was the first to
> use a "fly by wire" system some years ago.
>
> Something we should all do though, is mentally practice what to do if the
> throttle malfunctions. Toyota has had 2200 reported instances, 200+
> accidents and 18 deaths. You shift into neutral and steer to the side of
> the road and stop. I'm sure most of the accidents are due to panic. Be
> sure other drivers in your house are aware of what to do.
>
>
Ed - if you just shift into neutral won't you end up over revving? As I
understand the problem it is a "sticky" throttle and it is my
understanding that a car's brakes can overcome the power of the engine
so my suggestion would be to apply the brakes forcefully, turn the
ignition off, shift to neutral and then turn key back to on to allow
steering (being aware that with the engine off braking and steering will
require more effort) at which point you may pull out of traffic. Of
course this is all easier said then done at the moment of increased
throttle but the first thing is to step on the brake.
> "---MIKE---"<twinmountain@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:12665-4B62DBF0-1876@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
> Does my car have a "drive by wire' throttle or a cable arrangement?
>
>
> ---MIKE---
>>> In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
> >> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')
>
>
> Probably, if it does not you'd see the linkage from the pedal leading to the
> firewall.
>
> Most cars are going to that sort of setup as computers control so much now,
> to keep the engine running at top efficiency. IIRC, Airbus was the first to
> use a "fly by wire" system some years ago.
>
> Something we should all do though, is mentally practice what to do if the
> throttle malfunctions. Toyota has had 2200 reported instances, 200+
> accidents and 18 deaths. You shift into neutral and steer to the side of
> the road and stop. I'm sure most of the accidents are due to panic. Be
> sure other drivers in your house are aware of what to do.
>
>
Ed - if you just shift into neutral won't you end up over revving? As I
understand the problem it is a "sticky" throttle and it is my
understanding that a car's brakes can overcome the power of the engine
so my suggestion would be to apply the brakes forcefully, turn the
ignition off, shift to neutral and then turn key back to on to allow
steering (being aware that with the engine off braking and steering will
require more effort) at which point you may pull out of traffic. Of
course this is all easier said then done at the moment of increased
throttle but the first thing is to step on the brake.
01-29-2010, 07:03 PM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Throttle on a 2008 Elantra
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Most cars are going to that sort of setup as computers control so much now,
> to keep the engine running at top efficiency. IIRC, Airbus was the first to
> use a "fly by wire" system some years ago.
I believe this was the first use and a number of military aircraft had
fly-by-wire prior to Airbus.
http://disenchanted.com/dis/technology/fly-by-wire.html
> Something we should all do though, is mentally practice what to do if the
> throttle malfunctions. Toyota has had 2200 reported instances, 200+
> accidents and 18 deaths. You shift into neutral and steer to the side of
> the road and stop. I'm sure most of the accidents are due to panic. Be
> sure other drivers in your house are aware of what to do.
I would just depress the clutch. :-)
Matt
>
> Most cars are going to that sort of setup as computers control so much now,
> to keep the engine running at top efficiency. IIRC, Airbus was the first to
> use a "fly by wire" system some years ago.
I believe this was the first use and a number of military aircraft had
fly-by-wire prior to Airbus.
http://disenchanted.com/dis/technology/fly-by-wire.html
> Something we should all do though, is mentally practice what to do if the
> throttle malfunctions. Toyota has had 2200 reported instances, 200+
> accidents and 18 deaths. You shift into neutral and steer to the side of
> the road and stop. I'm sure most of the accidents are due to panic. Be
> sure other drivers in your house are aware of what to do.
I would just depress the clutch. :-)
Matt
01-29-2010, 07:06 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Throttle on a 2008 Elantra
jp103 wrote:
> Ed - if you just shift into neutral won't you end up over revving? As I
> understand the problem it is a "sticky" throttle and it is my
> understanding that a car's brakes can overcome the power of the engine
> so my suggestion would be to apply the brakes forcefully, turn the
> ignition off, shift to neutral and then turn key back to on to allow
> steering (being aware that with the engine off braking and steering will
> require more effort) at which point you may pull out of traffic. Of
> course this is all easier said then done at the moment of increased
> throttle but the first thing is to step on the brake.
Virtually all modern engines have rev limiters so this isn't a big concern.
I believe the brakes will overcome most engines, but you would have to
apply them very forcefully as once they become hot you could be in trouble.
It is much safer to do as Ed suggests and shift into neutral so that you
maintain steering and power brakes and don't risk locking the steering
when turning off the engine using the key.
Matt
> Ed - if you just shift into neutral won't you end up over revving? As I
> understand the problem it is a "sticky" throttle and it is my
> understanding that a car's brakes can overcome the power of the engine
> so my suggestion would be to apply the brakes forcefully, turn the
> ignition off, shift to neutral and then turn key back to on to allow
> steering (being aware that with the engine off braking and steering will
> require more effort) at which point you may pull out of traffic. Of
> course this is all easier said then done at the moment of increased
> throttle but the first thing is to step on the brake.
Virtually all modern engines have rev limiters so this isn't a big concern.
I believe the brakes will overcome most engines, but you would have to
apply them very forcefully as once they become hot you could be in trouble.
It is much safer to do as Ed suggests and shift into neutral so that you
maintain steering and power brakes and don't risk locking the steering
when turning off the engine using the key.
Matt
01-29-2010, 07:19 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Throttle on a 2008 Elantra
On 1/29/2010 7:06 PM, Voyager wrote:
>
> Virtually all modern engines have rev limiters so this isn't a big concern.
>
> I believe the brakes will overcome most engines, but you would have to
> apply them very forcefully as once they become hot you could be in trouble.
>
> It is much safer to do as Ed suggests and shift into neutral so that you
> maintain steering and power brakes and don't risk locking the steering
> when turning off the engine using the key.
>
> Matt
I may have to try stopping while not taking my foot off the gas (right
before I trade it in.
And to think that they used to make cars without power brakes or
steering. How did we ever manage???
>
> Virtually all modern engines have rev limiters so this isn't a big concern.
>
> I believe the brakes will overcome most engines, but you would have to
> apply them very forcefully as once they become hot you could be in trouble.
>
> It is much safer to do as Ed suggests and shift into neutral so that you
> maintain steering and power brakes and don't risk locking the steering
> when turning off the engine using the key.
>
> Matt
I may have to try stopping while not taking my foot off the gas (right
before I trade it in.
And to think that they used to make cars without power brakes or
steering. How did we ever manage???
01-29-2010, 07:43 PM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Throttle on a 2008 Elantra
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:19:40 -0500, jp103 wrote:
> And to think that they used to make cars without power brakes or
> steering. How did we ever manage???
That was the easy part, the harder thing was starting using
a crank handle and setting a choke.
> And to think that they used to make cars without power brakes or
> steering. How did we ever manage???
That was the easy part, the harder thing was starting using
a crank handle and setting a choke.
01-29-2010, 10:32 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Throttle on a 2008 Elantra
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:11:39 -0500, jp103
<jpoinier110522mi@nospamcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>Ed - if you just shift into neutral won't you end up over revving? As I
>understand the problem it is a "sticky" throttle and it is my
>understanding that a car's brakes can overcome the power of the engine
>so my suggestion would be to apply the brakes forcefully, turn the
>ignition off, shift to neutral and then turn key back to on to allow
>steering (being aware that with the engine off braking and steering will
>require more effort) at which point you may pull out of traffic. Of
>course this is all easier said then done at the moment of increased
>throttle but the first thing is to step on the brake.
I thought you were correct when I first heard about the problem, but
the reports said that some drivers were unable to stop under power.
Most engines will not over rev because of limiters on them, but given
the choice of a $3500 engine or crashing into a tree, you know the
right choice.
<jpoinier110522mi@nospamcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>Ed - if you just shift into neutral won't you end up over revving? As I
>understand the problem it is a "sticky" throttle and it is my
>understanding that a car's brakes can overcome the power of the engine
>so my suggestion would be to apply the brakes forcefully, turn the
>ignition off, shift to neutral and then turn key back to on to allow
>steering (being aware that with the engine off braking and steering will
>require more effort) at which point you may pull out of traffic. Of
>course this is all easier said then done at the moment of increased
>throttle but the first thing is to step on the brake.
I thought you were correct when I first heard about the problem, but
the reports said that some drivers were unable to stop under power.
Most engines will not over rev because of limiters on them, but given
the choice of a $3500 engine or crashing into a tree, you know the
right choice.
01-29-2010, 10:47 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Throttle on a 2008 Elantra
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:14:04 -0500, twinmountain@webtv.net
(---MIKE---) wrote:
>My original question was not answered. Does my car have a "fly by wire"
>throttle or not?
>
Do you have a free account on HMAService.com? I lost my info last
week in a computer crash and have not set it up yet. They will show a
diagram of the throttle so you can see.
(---MIKE---) wrote:
>My original question was not answered. Does my car have a "fly by wire"
>throttle or not?
>
Do you have a free account on HMAService.com? I lost my info last
week in a computer crash and have not set it up yet. They will show a
diagram of the throttle so you can see.
01-29-2010, 11:57 PM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Throttle on a 2008 Elantra
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:47:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:14:04 -0500, twinmountain@webtv.net
>(---MIKE---) wrote:
>
>>My original question was not answered. Does my car have a "fly by wire"
>>throttle or not?
>>
>
>Do you have a free account on HMAService.com? I lost my info last
>week in a computer crash and have not set it up yet. They will show a
>diagram of the throttle so you can see.
Per HMA instructions:
At some point, there is a cable. Try to follow it to the pedal.
1. Removal the engine cover(A).
2. Disconnect the throttle position sensor(TPS) and the idle speed
actuator(ISA) connectors.
3. Disconnect the positive crankcase ventilation(PCV) hose and the
breather hose.
4. Disconnect the accelerator cable.
Here is some info on the Throttle Position Sensor
The Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) is mounted on the throttle body and
detects the opening angle of the throttle plate. The TPS has a
variable resistor (potentiometer) whose characteristic is the
resistance changing according to the throttle angle. During
acceleration, the TPS resistance between the reference 5V and the
signal terminal decreases and output voltage increases; during
deceleration, the TPS resistance increases and TPS output voltage
decreases. The ECM supplies a reference 5V to the TPS and the output
voltage increases directly with the opening of the throttle valve. The
TPS output voltage will vary from 0.2~0.8V at closed throttle to
4.3~4.8V at wide-open throttle. The ECM determines operating
conditions such as idle (closed throttle), part load,
acceleration/deceleration, and wide-open throttle from the TPS. Also
The ECM uses the Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor (MAPS) signal along
with the TPS signal to adjust fuel injection duration and ignition
timing.
>On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:14:04 -0500, twinmountain@webtv.net
>(---MIKE---) wrote:
>
>>My original question was not answered. Does my car have a "fly by wire"
>>throttle or not?
>>
>
>Do you have a free account on HMAService.com? I lost my info last
>week in a computer crash and have not set it up yet. They will show a
>diagram of the throttle so you can see.
Per HMA instructions:
At some point, there is a cable. Try to follow it to the pedal.
1. Removal the engine cover(A).
2. Disconnect the throttle position sensor(TPS) and the idle speed
actuator(ISA) connectors.
3. Disconnect the positive crankcase ventilation(PCV) hose and the
breather hose.
4. Disconnect the accelerator cable.
Here is some info on the Throttle Position Sensor
The Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) is mounted on the throttle body and
detects the opening angle of the throttle plate. The TPS has a
variable resistor (potentiometer) whose characteristic is the
resistance changing according to the throttle angle. During
acceleration, the TPS resistance between the reference 5V and the
signal terminal decreases and output voltage increases; during
deceleration, the TPS resistance increases and TPS output voltage
decreases. The ECM supplies a reference 5V to the TPS and the output
voltage increases directly with the opening of the throttle valve. The
TPS output voltage will vary from 0.2~0.8V at closed throttle to
4.3~4.8V at wide-open throttle. The ECM determines operating
conditions such as idle (closed throttle), part load,
acceleration/deceleration, and wide-open throttle from the TPS. Also
The ECM uses the Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor (MAPS) signal along
with the TPS signal to adjust fuel injection duration and ignition
timing.
01-30-2010, 09:28 AM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Throttle on a 2008 Elantra
jp103 wrote:
> On 1/29/2010 7:06 PM, Voyager wrote:
>
>>
>> Virtually all modern engines have rev limiters so this isn't a big
>> concern.
>>
>> I believe the brakes will overcome most engines, but you would have to
>> apply them very forcefully as once they become hot you could be in
>> trouble.
>>
>> It is much safer to do as Ed suggests and shift into neutral so that you
>> maintain steering and power brakes and don't risk locking the steering
>> when turning off the engine using the key.
>>
>> Matt
>
> I may have to try stopping while not taking my foot off the gas (right
> before I trade it in.
> And to think that they used to make cars without power brakes or
> steering. How did we ever manage???
Check the fatality rates per mile driven back then compared to now and
you will see how we managed. We managed by killing many more people per
mile than today. :-)
Also, engines had a lot less power on average back then, speeds were
generally lower and throttles were entirely mechanical so that in the
rare event they stuck (and yes they did as I have had it happen), you
could generally hook your toe under the accelerator and pull it back!
Also, people back then generally knew more about their vehicles (they
had to too keep them running) and knew what to do with a stuck
accelerator. I am still amazed at the family of the, as I recall,
police officer who were killed in the one wreck because the man didn't
have the intelligence to shift into neutral. Personally, I am not
convinced that was an accident. I suspect he decided to take out
himself and his family for some reason that we may never know.
Matt
> On 1/29/2010 7:06 PM, Voyager wrote:
>
>>
>> Virtually all modern engines have rev limiters so this isn't a big
>> concern.
>>
>> I believe the brakes will overcome most engines, but you would have to
>> apply them very forcefully as once they become hot you could be in
>> trouble.
>>
>> It is much safer to do as Ed suggests and shift into neutral so that you
>> maintain steering and power brakes and don't risk locking the steering
>> when turning off the engine using the key.
>>
>> Matt
>
> I may have to try stopping while not taking my foot off the gas (right
> before I trade it in.
> And to think that they used to make cars without power brakes or
> steering. How did we ever manage???
Check the fatality rates per mile driven back then compared to now and
you will see how we managed. We managed by killing many more people per
mile than today. :-)
Also, engines had a lot less power on average back then, speeds were
generally lower and throttles were entirely mechanical so that in the
rare event they stuck (and yes they did as I have had it happen), you
could generally hook your toe under the accelerator and pull it back!
Also, people back then generally knew more about their vehicles (they
had to too keep them running) and knew what to do with a stuck
accelerator. I am still amazed at the family of the, as I recall,
police officer who were killed in the one wreck because the man didn't
have the intelligence to shift into neutral. Personally, I am not
convinced that was an accident. I suspect he decided to take out
himself and his family for some reason that we may never know.
Matt
01-30-2010, 09:29 AM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Throttle on a 2008 Elantra
Irwell wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:19:40 -0500, jp103 wrote:
>
>
>> And to think that they used to make cars without power brakes or
>> steering. How did we ever manage???
>
> That was the easy part, the harder thing was starting using
> a crank handle and setting a choke.
The choke was the easy part, it was the spark advance that took talent!
Matt
> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:19:40 -0500, jp103 wrote:
>
>
>> And to think that they used to make cars without power brakes or
>> steering. How did we ever manage???
>
> That was the easy part, the harder thing was starting using
> a crank handle and setting a choke.
The choke was the easy part, it was the spark advance that took talent!
Matt
01-30-2010, 11:22 AM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Throttle on a 2008 Elantra
On 1/30/2010 09:29, Voyager wrote:
> Irwell wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:19:40 -0500, jp103 wrote:
>>
>>
>>> And to think that they used to make cars without power brakes or
>>> steering. How did we ever manage???
>>
>> That was the easy part, the harder thing was starting using
>> a crank handle and setting a choke.
>
> The choke was the easy part, it was the spark advance that took talent!
>
> Matt
Yup, that was the hard part. I was gifted at getting it right, my Father
no, so it cost me half an hour sleep
every morning, my Father waked me early to start the farm tractor.
> Irwell wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:19:40 -0500, jp103 wrote:
>>
>>
>>> And to think that they used to make cars without power brakes or
>>> steering. How did we ever manage???
>>
>> That was the easy part, the harder thing was starting using
>> a crank handle and setting a choke.
>
> The choke was the easy part, it was the spark advance that took talent!
>
> Matt
Yup, that was the hard part. I was gifted at getting it right, my Father
no, so it cost me half an hour sleep
every morning, my Father waked me early to start the farm tractor.
01-30-2010, 11:28 AM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Throttle on a 2008 Elantra
I came along after the crank handle but I sure remember having to pull out
the choke.
"Irwell" <hook@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:13q0dtqwmzcb4.1m89xmmgmqc63.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:19:40 -0500, jp103 wrote:
>
>
>> And to think that they used to make cars without power brakes or
>> steering. How did we ever manage???
>
> That was the easy part, the harder thing was starting using
> a crank handle and setting a choke.
the choke.
"Irwell" <hook@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:13q0dtqwmzcb4.1m89xmmgmqc63.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:19:40 -0500, jp103 wrote:
>
>
>> And to think that they used to make cars without power brakes or
>> steering. How did we ever manage???
>
> That was the easy part, the harder thing was starting using
> a crank handle and setting a choke.