Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
07-27-2006, 11:32 PM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
On 2006-07-27, Peter <notspam-sec4251@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
>
> I have been offfered, by a Hyundai dealer, a substantial discount from
> the sticker price of a 2005 (not 2007) Santa Fe. It looks nice and
> works for me.
>
> The Tucson is what seems to be getting all the press and the J. D.
> Power approval ratings. Is there that much difference ?
The Consumer Reports autos issue in April covered the results of their
reliability poll. If memory serves me right, the Santa Fe was rated way
above average in reliability. The Tucson was rated way below average. In
fact, the Santa Fe is Hyundai's most reliable model, and the Tucson was
Hyundai's least reliable model.
Take that bit of data however you like. Whatever problems people might have
with CR as a magazine, the sheer size of their survey sample (1 mil+
vehicles) is hard to dismiss. Nothing I've heard so far challenges the
statistical validity of their reliability survey.
Chris
> Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
>
> I have been offfered, by a Hyundai dealer, a substantial discount from
> the sticker price of a 2005 (not 2007) Santa Fe. It looks nice and
> works for me.
>
> The Tucson is what seems to be getting all the press and the J. D.
> Power approval ratings. Is there that much difference ?
The Consumer Reports autos issue in April covered the results of their
reliability poll. If memory serves me right, the Santa Fe was rated way
above average in reliability. The Tucson was rated way below average. In
fact, the Santa Fe is Hyundai's most reliable model, and the Tucson was
Hyundai's least reliable model.
Take that bit of data however you like. Whatever problems people might have
with CR as a magazine, the sheer size of their survey sample (1 mil+
vehicles) is hard to dismiss. Nothing I've heard so far challenges the
statistical validity of their reliability survey.
Chris
07-28-2006, 12:48 AM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
rik wrote:
> Just a couple of things to add:
> Bought an '06 Santa Fe in April of '06
> Test drove the Santa Fe and the Tucson, a number of times.
> Both were Limiteds. The Tucson was (is) nice, however, there
> is a world of difference between the Tucson 2.7 and a Santa Fe
> 3.5. The 3.5 flies and the 2.7 has a problem in traffic on a busy
> interstate. Also there's a big difference between a 4 speed and
> a 5 speed.
The 2.7 needs about 10k miles to break in. The 3.5 is faster no doubt,
but that 4 mpg hit was a bit excessive. We specifically bought a 03.0
2.7 LX for that reason - the 03.5 3.5's were on the lot, and the price
increase was small, but the long term was going to be large.
> In the end we went with the Santa Fe. My wife's major complaint
> with the Tucson was the pick-up. He next big complaint was the
> lack of a power seat. She's used to one and that killed the Tucson
> for her.
Bah. Use the *****! Personally I'm kicking around a seat replacement
on mine. They just don't fit well.
> All in all the Santa Fe, in my opinion, is the nicer of the 2 cars.
> And I think it has a lot to do with the size of the Santa Fe. But,
> they are both really nice cars....we just happend to love the Santa
> Fe.
I haven't been in a Tucson yet, but IMHO its sitting in a nasty market
segment.. They're trying to compete with junk like the CRV and the RAV4
with the Sportage, and the Tucson is just a dressed up Sportage.
The 01-current Santa Fe fit a very good market segment. It had some
design flaws (whoever designed the back seat fold-down setup needed a
beating) but I've driven much much worse for a lot more money.
Unluckily they're trying to turn the Santa Fe into a chop-top minivan
("crossovers" suck!) and the Sportage/Tucson is a little too small for
my taste, and Hyundai's dealer network is still pathetically under
built, so I doubt I'll be going to Hyundai to buy another car anytime
soon... :P
JS
> Just a couple of things to add:
> Bought an '06 Santa Fe in April of '06
> Test drove the Santa Fe and the Tucson, a number of times.
> Both were Limiteds. The Tucson was (is) nice, however, there
> is a world of difference between the Tucson 2.7 and a Santa Fe
> 3.5. The 3.5 flies and the 2.7 has a problem in traffic on a busy
> interstate. Also there's a big difference between a 4 speed and
> a 5 speed.
The 2.7 needs about 10k miles to break in. The 3.5 is faster no doubt,
but that 4 mpg hit was a bit excessive. We specifically bought a 03.0
2.7 LX for that reason - the 03.5 3.5's were on the lot, and the price
increase was small, but the long term was going to be large.
> In the end we went with the Santa Fe. My wife's major complaint
> with the Tucson was the pick-up. He next big complaint was the
> lack of a power seat. She's used to one and that killed the Tucson
> for her.
Bah. Use the *****! Personally I'm kicking around a seat replacement
on mine. They just don't fit well.
> All in all the Santa Fe, in my opinion, is the nicer of the 2 cars.
> And I think it has a lot to do with the size of the Santa Fe. But,
> they are both really nice cars....we just happend to love the Santa
> Fe.
I haven't been in a Tucson yet, but IMHO its sitting in a nasty market
segment.. They're trying to compete with junk like the CRV and the RAV4
with the Sportage, and the Tucson is just a dressed up Sportage.
The 01-current Santa Fe fit a very good market segment. It had some
design flaws (whoever designed the back seat fold-down setup needed a
beating) but I've driven much much worse for a lot more money.
Unluckily they're trying to turn the Santa Fe into a chop-top minivan
("crossovers" suck!) and the Sportage/Tucson is a little too small for
my taste, and Hyundai's dealer network is still pathetically under
built, so I doubt I'll be going to Hyundai to buy another car anytime
soon... :P
JS
07-28-2006, 12:48 AM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
rik wrote:
> Just a couple of things to add:
> Bought an '06 Santa Fe in April of '06
> Test drove the Santa Fe and the Tucson, a number of times.
> Both were Limiteds. The Tucson was (is) nice, however, there
> is a world of difference between the Tucson 2.7 and a Santa Fe
> 3.5. The 3.5 flies and the 2.7 has a problem in traffic on a busy
> interstate. Also there's a big difference between a 4 speed and
> a 5 speed.
The 2.7 needs about 10k miles to break in. The 3.5 is faster no doubt,
but that 4 mpg hit was a bit excessive. We specifically bought a 03.0
2.7 LX for that reason - the 03.5 3.5's were on the lot, and the price
increase was small, but the long term was going to be large.
> In the end we went with the Santa Fe. My wife's major complaint
> with the Tucson was the pick-up. He next big complaint was the
> lack of a power seat. She's used to one and that killed the Tucson
> for her.
Bah. Use the *****! Personally I'm kicking around a seat replacement
on mine. They just don't fit well.
> All in all the Santa Fe, in my opinion, is the nicer of the 2 cars.
> And I think it has a lot to do with the size of the Santa Fe. But,
> they are both really nice cars....we just happend to love the Santa
> Fe.
I haven't been in a Tucson yet, but IMHO its sitting in a nasty market
segment.. They're trying to compete with junk like the CRV and the RAV4
with the Sportage, and the Tucson is just a dressed up Sportage.
The 01-current Santa Fe fit a very good market segment. It had some
design flaws (whoever designed the back seat fold-down setup needed a
beating) but I've driven much much worse for a lot more money.
Unluckily they're trying to turn the Santa Fe into a chop-top minivan
("crossovers" suck!) and the Sportage/Tucson is a little too small for
my taste, and Hyundai's dealer network is still pathetically under
built, so I doubt I'll be going to Hyundai to buy another car anytime
soon... :P
JS
> Just a couple of things to add:
> Bought an '06 Santa Fe in April of '06
> Test drove the Santa Fe and the Tucson, a number of times.
> Both were Limiteds. The Tucson was (is) nice, however, there
> is a world of difference between the Tucson 2.7 and a Santa Fe
> 3.5. The 3.5 flies and the 2.7 has a problem in traffic on a busy
> interstate. Also there's a big difference between a 4 speed and
> a 5 speed.
The 2.7 needs about 10k miles to break in. The 3.5 is faster no doubt,
but that 4 mpg hit was a bit excessive. We specifically bought a 03.0
2.7 LX for that reason - the 03.5 3.5's were on the lot, and the price
increase was small, but the long term was going to be large.
> In the end we went with the Santa Fe. My wife's major complaint
> with the Tucson was the pick-up. He next big complaint was the
> lack of a power seat. She's used to one and that killed the Tucson
> for her.
Bah. Use the *****! Personally I'm kicking around a seat replacement
on mine. They just don't fit well.
> All in all the Santa Fe, in my opinion, is the nicer of the 2 cars.
> And I think it has a lot to do with the size of the Santa Fe. But,
> they are both really nice cars....we just happend to love the Santa
> Fe.
I haven't been in a Tucson yet, but IMHO its sitting in a nasty market
segment.. They're trying to compete with junk like the CRV and the RAV4
with the Sportage, and the Tucson is just a dressed up Sportage.
The 01-current Santa Fe fit a very good market segment. It had some
design flaws (whoever designed the back seat fold-down setup needed a
beating) but I've driven much much worse for a lot more money.
Unluckily they're trying to turn the Santa Fe into a chop-top minivan
("crossovers" suck!) and the Sportage/Tucson is a little too small for
my taste, and Hyundai's dealer network is still pathetically under
built, so I doubt I'll be going to Hyundai to buy another car anytime
soon... :P
JS
07-28-2006, 12:48 AM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
rik wrote:
> Just a couple of things to add:
> Bought an '06 Santa Fe in April of '06
> Test drove the Santa Fe and the Tucson, a number of times.
> Both were Limiteds. The Tucson was (is) nice, however, there
> is a world of difference between the Tucson 2.7 and a Santa Fe
> 3.5. The 3.5 flies and the 2.7 has a problem in traffic on a busy
> interstate. Also there's a big difference between a 4 speed and
> a 5 speed.
The 2.7 needs about 10k miles to break in. The 3.5 is faster no doubt,
but that 4 mpg hit was a bit excessive. We specifically bought a 03.0
2.7 LX for that reason - the 03.5 3.5's were on the lot, and the price
increase was small, but the long term was going to be large.
> In the end we went with the Santa Fe. My wife's major complaint
> with the Tucson was the pick-up. He next big complaint was the
> lack of a power seat. She's used to one and that killed the Tucson
> for her.
Bah. Use the *****! Personally I'm kicking around a seat replacement
on mine. They just don't fit well.
> All in all the Santa Fe, in my opinion, is the nicer of the 2 cars.
> And I think it has a lot to do with the size of the Santa Fe. But,
> they are both really nice cars....we just happend to love the Santa
> Fe.
I haven't been in a Tucson yet, but IMHO its sitting in a nasty market
segment.. They're trying to compete with junk like the CRV and the RAV4
with the Sportage, and the Tucson is just a dressed up Sportage.
The 01-current Santa Fe fit a very good market segment. It had some
design flaws (whoever designed the back seat fold-down setup needed a
beating) but I've driven much much worse for a lot more money.
Unluckily they're trying to turn the Santa Fe into a chop-top minivan
("crossovers" suck!) and the Sportage/Tucson is a little too small for
my taste, and Hyundai's dealer network is still pathetically under
built, so I doubt I'll be going to Hyundai to buy another car anytime
soon... :P
JS
> Just a couple of things to add:
> Bought an '06 Santa Fe in April of '06
> Test drove the Santa Fe and the Tucson, a number of times.
> Both were Limiteds. The Tucson was (is) nice, however, there
> is a world of difference between the Tucson 2.7 and a Santa Fe
> 3.5. The 3.5 flies and the 2.7 has a problem in traffic on a busy
> interstate. Also there's a big difference between a 4 speed and
> a 5 speed.
The 2.7 needs about 10k miles to break in. The 3.5 is faster no doubt,
but that 4 mpg hit was a bit excessive. We specifically bought a 03.0
2.7 LX for that reason - the 03.5 3.5's were on the lot, and the price
increase was small, but the long term was going to be large.
> In the end we went with the Santa Fe. My wife's major complaint
> with the Tucson was the pick-up. He next big complaint was the
> lack of a power seat. She's used to one and that killed the Tucson
> for her.
Bah. Use the *****! Personally I'm kicking around a seat replacement
on mine. They just don't fit well.
> All in all the Santa Fe, in my opinion, is the nicer of the 2 cars.
> And I think it has a lot to do with the size of the Santa Fe. But,
> they are both really nice cars....we just happend to love the Santa
> Fe.
I haven't been in a Tucson yet, but IMHO its sitting in a nasty market
segment.. They're trying to compete with junk like the CRV and the RAV4
with the Sportage, and the Tucson is just a dressed up Sportage.
The 01-current Santa Fe fit a very good market segment. It had some
design flaws (whoever designed the back seat fold-down setup needed a
beating) but I've driven much much worse for a lot more money.
Unluckily they're trying to turn the Santa Fe into a chop-top minivan
("crossovers" suck!) and the Sportage/Tucson is a little too small for
my taste, and Hyundai's dealer network is still pathetically under
built, so I doubt I'll be going to Hyundai to buy another car anytime
soon... :P
JS
07-28-2006, 11:03 AM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
Christopher Wong wrote:
> The Consumer Reports autos issue in April covered the results of their
> reliability poll. If memory serves me right, the Santa Fe was rated way
> above average in reliability. The Tucson was rated way below average. In
> fact, the Santa Fe is Hyundai's most reliable model, and the Tucson was
> Hyundai's least reliable model.
I trust JD Power over Consumer Reports, primarily because Power gives
out unfiltered consumer opinions, while CR "experts" distill their data
and make their own recommendations. I prefer the unbiased scoop. Power
retains PhD's in statistics to ensure sampling validity.
Also, the Power surveys are fresher and more timely than CR. I've
noticed this over the years, Power always spots the new trends in
quality first and CR lags. You're not going to get a good read on the
'06's from CR until next year. Power's Initial Quality Survey tells you
what new car owners think of their '06's today.
Power's recent results show that new Tucson owners are reporting fewer
problems and higher satisfaction than new Santa Fe owners:
== USA TODAY ==
The Hyundai Tucson was the No. 1 compact multi-activity vehicle. Three
Hyundai cars took second-place spots: the Elantra compact car, the
Tiburon sporty car and the Azera large car.
Only the company's Santa Fe SUV, which is being redesigned for the 2007
model year, and the Accent subcompact car did not make the top three
slots in their respective categories.
> The Consumer Reports autos issue in April covered the results of their
> reliability poll. If memory serves me right, the Santa Fe was rated way
> above average in reliability. The Tucson was rated way below average. In
> fact, the Santa Fe is Hyundai's most reliable model, and the Tucson was
> Hyundai's least reliable model.
I trust JD Power over Consumer Reports, primarily because Power gives
out unfiltered consumer opinions, while CR "experts" distill their data
and make their own recommendations. I prefer the unbiased scoop. Power
retains PhD's in statistics to ensure sampling validity.
Also, the Power surveys are fresher and more timely than CR. I've
noticed this over the years, Power always spots the new trends in
quality first and CR lags. You're not going to get a good read on the
'06's from CR until next year. Power's Initial Quality Survey tells you
what new car owners think of their '06's today.
Power's recent results show that new Tucson owners are reporting fewer
problems and higher satisfaction than new Santa Fe owners:
== USA TODAY ==
The Hyundai Tucson was the No. 1 compact multi-activity vehicle. Three
Hyundai cars took second-place spots: the Elantra compact car, the
Tiburon sporty car and the Azera large car.
Only the company's Santa Fe SUV, which is being redesigned for the 2007
model year, and the Accent subcompact car did not make the top three
slots in their respective categories.
07-28-2006, 11:03 AM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
Christopher Wong wrote:
> The Consumer Reports autos issue in April covered the results of their
> reliability poll. If memory serves me right, the Santa Fe was rated way
> above average in reliability. The Tucson was rated way below average. In
> fact, the Santa Fe is Hyundai's most reliable model, and the Tucson was
> Hyundai's least reliable model.
I trust JD Power over Consumer Reports, primarily because Power gives
out unfiltered consumer opinions, while CR "experts" distill their data
and make their own recommendations. I prefer the unbiased scoop. Power
retains PhD's in statistics to ensure sampling validity.
Also, the Power surveys are fresher and more timely than CR. I've
noticed this over the years, Power always spots the new trends in
quality first and CR lags. You're not going to get a good read on the
'06's from CR until next year. Power's Initial Quality Survey tells you
what new car owners think of their '06's today.
Power's recent results show that new Tucson owners are reporting fewer
problems and higher satisfaction than new Santa Fe owners:
== USA TODAY ==
The Hyundai Tucson was the No. 1 compact multi-activity vehicle. Three
Hyundai cars took second-place spots: the Elantra compact car, the
Tiburon sporty car and the Azera large car.
Only the company's Santa Fe SUV, which is being redesigned for the 2007
model year, and the Accent subcompact car did not make the top three
slots in their respective categories.
> The Consumer Reports autos issue in April covered the results of their
> reliability poll. If memory serves me right, the Santa Fe was rated way
> above average in reliability. The Tucson was rated way below average. In
> fact, the Santa Fe is Hyundai's most reliable model, and the Tucson was
> Hyundai's least reliable model.
I trust JD Power over Consumer Reports, primarily because Power gives
out unfiltered consumer opinions, while CR "experts" distill their data
and make their own recommendations. I prefer the unbiased scoop. Power
retains PhD's in statistics to ensure sampling validity.
Also, the Power surveys are fresher and more timely than CR. I've
noticed this over the years, Power always spots the new trends in
quality first and CR lags. You're not going to get a good read on the
'06's from CR until next year. Power's Initial Quality Survey tells you
what new car owners think of their '06's today.
Power's recent results show that new Tucson owners are reporting fewer
problems and higher satisfaction than new Santa Fe owners:
== USA TODAY ==
The Hyundai Tucson was the No. 1 compact multi-activity vehicle. Three
Hyundai cars took second-place spots: the Elantra compact car, the
Tiburon sporty car and the Azera large car.
Only the company's Santa Fe SUV, which is being redesigned for the 2007
model year, and the Accent subcompact car did not make the top three
slots in their respective categories.
07-28-2006, 11:03 AM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
Christopher Wong wrote:
> The Consumer Reports autos issue in April covered the results of their
> reliability poll. If memory serves me right, the Santa Fe was rated way
> above average in reliability. The Tucson was rated way below average. In
> fact, the Santa Fe is Hyundai's most reliable model, and the Tucson was
> Hyundai's least reliable model.
I trust JD Power over Consumer Reports, primarily because Power gives
out unfiltered consumer opinions, while CR "experts" distill their data
and make their own recommendations. I prefer the unbiased scoop. Power
retains PhD's in statistics to ensure sampling validity.
Also, the Power surveys are fresher and more timely than CR. I've
noticed this over the years, Power always spots the new trends in
quality first and CR lags. You're not going to get a good read on the
'06's from CR until next year. Power's Initial Quality Survey tells you
what new car owners think of their '06's today.
Power's recent results show that new Tucson owners are reporting fewer
problems and higher satisfaction than new Santa Fe owners:
== USA TODAY ==
The Hyundai Tucson was the No. 1 compact multi-activity vehicle. Three
Hyundai cars took second-place spots: the Elantra compact car, the
Tiburon sporty car and the Azera large car.
Only the company's Santa Fe SUV, which is being redesigned for the 2007
model year, and the Accent subcompact car did not make the top three
slots in their respective categories.
> The Consumer Reports autos issue in April covered the results of their
> reliability poll. If memory serves me right, the Santa Fe was rated way
> above average in reliability. The Tucson was rated way below average. In
> fact, the Santa Fe is Hyundai's most reliable model, and the Tucson was
> Hyundai's least reliable model.
I trust JD Power over Consumer Reports, primarily because Power gives
out unfiltered consumer opinions, while CR "experts" distill their data
and make their own recommendations. I prefer the unbiased scoop. Power
retains PhD's in statistics to ensure sampling validity.
Also, the Power surveys are fresher and more timely than CR. I've
noticed this over the years, Power always spots the new trends in
quality first and CR lags. You're not going to get a good read on the
'06's from CR until next year. Power's Initial Quality Survey tells you
what new car owners think of their '06's today.
Power's recent results show that new Tucson owners are reporting fewer
problems and higher satisfaction than new Santa Fe owners:
== USA TODAY ==
The Hyundai Tucson was the No. 1 compact multi-activity vehicle. Three
Hyundai cars took second-place spots: the Elantra compact car, the
Tiburon sporty car and the Azera large car.
Only the company's Santa Fe SUV, which is being redesigned for the 2007
model year, and the Accent subcompact car did not make the top three
slots in their respective categories.
07-29-2006, 04:20 PM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
Paradox wrote:
> I thought the Tucson was smaller then the Sante Fe?
Yes and no.
It has less internal cargo space and is overall shorter.
It has considerably more leg room designed into it (and "less" cargo
space) but once you factor in the Santa Fe's absolutely pathetic rear
seat fold-down design (was this ever fixed?) its really not that much
less usable cargo space.
Big cargo is what they make trailer hitches and/or $30/day rental trucks
for...
JS
> I thought the Tucson was smaller then the Sante Fe?
Yes and no.
It has less internal cargo space and is overall shorter.
It has considerably more leg room designed into it (and "less" cargo
space) but once you factor in the Santa Fe's absolutely pathetic rear
seat fold-down design (was this ever fixed?) its really not that much
less usable cargo space.
Big cargo is what they make trailer hitches and/or $30/day rental trucks
for...
JS
07-29-2006, 04:20 PM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
Paradox wrote:
> I thought the Tucson was smaller then the Sante Fe?
Yes and no.
It has less internal cargo space and is overall shorter.
It has considerably more leg room designed into it (and "less" cargo
space) but once you factor in the Santa Fe's absolutely pathetic rear
seat fold-down design (was this ever fixed?) its really not that much
less usable cargo space.
Big cargo is what they make trailer hitches and/or $30/day rental trucks
for...
JS
> I thought the Tucson was smaller then the Sante Fe?
Yes and no.
It has less internal cargo space and is overall shorter.
It has considerably more leg room designed into it (and "less" cargo
space) but once you factor in the Santa Fe's absolutely pathetic rear
seat fold-down design (was this ever fixed?) its really not that much
less usable cargo space.
Big cargo is what they make trailer hitches and/or $30/day rental trucks
for...
JS
07-29-2006, 04:20 PM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
Paradox wrote:
> I thought the Tucson was smaller then the Sante Fe?
Yes and no.
It has less internal cargo space and is overall shorter.
It has considerably more leg room designed into it (and "less" cargo
space) but once you factor in the Santa Fe's absolutely pathetic rear
seat fold-down design (was this ever fixed?) its really not that much
less usable cargo space.
Big cargo is what they make trailer hitches and/or $30/day rental trucks
for...
JS
> I thought the Tucson was smaller then the Sante Fe?
Yes and no.
It has less internal cargo space and is overall shorter.
It has considerably more leg room designed into it (and "less" cargo
space) but once you factor in the Santa Fe's absolutely pathetic rear
seat fold-down design (was this ever fixed?) its really not that much
less usable cargo space.
Big cargo is what they make trailer hitches and/or $30/day rental trucks
for...
JS
07-29-2006, 09:15 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
On 2006-07-28, James <wimpyVO2max@gmail.com> wrote:
> Christopher Wong wrote:
>
>> The Consumer Reports autos issue in April covered the results of their
>> reliability poll. If memory serves me right, the Santa Fe was rated way
>> above average in reliability. The Tucson was rated way below average. In
>> fact, the Santa Fe is Hyundai's most reliable model, and the Tucson was
>> Hyundai's least reliable model.
>
> I trust JD Power over Consumer Reports, primarily because Power gives
> out unfiltered consumer opinions, while CR "experts" distill their data
> and make their own recommendations. I prefer the unbiased scoop. Power
> retains PhD's in statistics to ensure sampling validity.
>
> Also, the Power surveys are fresher and more timely than CR. I've
> noticed this over the years, Power always spots the new trends in
> quality first and CR lags. You're not going to get a good read on the
> '06's from CR until next year. Power's Initial Quality Survey tells you
> what new car owners think of their '06's today.
You are comparing apples and oranges. The JD Power IQS is NOT a reliability
survey. It measures quality issues over a 90 day period, half of which
covers design defects (are those ***** intuitive?) and the other
manufacturing defects (do those panels align perfectly?). For reliability,
you want something like the JD Power 3 year reliability survey (where
Hyundai seems to do curiously badly). You can't measure reliability over
just 90 days.
In any case, you have not said anything meaningful to discredit the CR
survey. The results are empirical (they are ranked in terms of number of
problems), so there is little room to "distill" the data. The JD Power
results as reported in the media is even more "distilled" in that the news
reports have far less details. Heck, they don't even tell us their sample
size in their press releases. So you have no proof that CR manupilates their
data, no proof that the data is biased, no proof that one "filters" their
data more than the other. But the funniest part is that there is no way to
defend the Tucson based on bias: even a biased study has no reason to favor
one Hyundai SUV over another.
The reason for the reliability disparity is quite simple. While Hyundai has
made remarkable progress in reliability, they may not be as consistent
across all models or when first starting out. The Tucson is still very new,
and Hyundai may not have gottent their act together yet on this model.
Hyundais might need a number of years to get their reliability up. My 2001
Accent (a model introduced in 2000), is rated very poorly by JD Powers' 3
year reliability survey. But 2005 Accents are rated quite reliable by
Consumer Reports. Since the Tucson is also only in its 2nd year, you might
have a couple of years to go for it to shape up.
Chris
> Christopher Wong wrote:
>
>> The Consumer Reports autos issue in April covered the results of their
>> reliability poll. If memory serves me right, the Santa Fe was rated way
>> above average in reliability. The Tucson was rated way below average. In
>> fact, the Santa Fe is Hyundai's most reliable model, and the Tucson was
>> Hyundai's least reliable model.
>
> I trust JD Power over Consumer Reports, primarily because Power gives
> out unfiltered consumer opinions, while CR "experts" distill their data
> and make their own recommendations. I prefer the unbiased scoop. Power
> retains PhD's in statistics to ensure sampling validity.
>
> Also, the Power surveys are fresher and more timely than CR. I've
> noticed this over the years, Power always spots the new trends in
> quality first and CR lags. You're not going to get a good read on the
> '06's from CR until next year. Power's Initial Quality Survey tells you
> what new car owners think of their '06's today.
You are comparing apples and oranges. The JD Power IQS is NOT a reliability
survey. It measures quality issues over a 90 day period, half of which
covers design defects (are those ***** intuitive?) and the other
manufacturing defects (do those panels align perfectly?). For reliability,
you want something like the JD Power 3 year reliability survey (where
Hyundai seems to do curiously badly). You can't measure reliability over
just 90 days.
In any case, you have not said anything meaningful to discredit the CR
survey. The results are empirical (they are ranked in terms of number of
problems), so there is little room to "distill" the data. The JD Power
results as reported in the media is even more "distilled" in that the news
reports have far less details. Heck, they don't even tell us their sample
size in their press releases. So you have no proof that CR manupilates their
data, no proof that the data is biased, no proof that one "filters" their
data more than the other. But the funniest part is that there is no way to
defend the Tucson based on bias: even a biased study has no reason to favor
one Hyundai SUV over another.
The reason for the reliability disparity is quite simple. While Hyundai has
made remarkable progress in reliability, they may not be as consistent
across all models or when first starting out. The Tucson is still very new,
and Hyundai may not have gottent their act together yet on this model.
Hyundais might need a number of years to get their reliability up. My 2001
Accent (a model introduced in 2000), is rated very poorly by JD Powers' 3
year reliability survey. But 2005 Accents are rated quite reliable by
Consumer Reports. Since the Tucson is also only in its 2nd year, you might
have a couple of years to go for it to shape up.
Chris
07-29-2006, 09:15 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
On 2006-07-28, James <wimpyVO2max@gmail.com> wrote:
> Christopher Wong wrote:
>
>> The Consumer Reports autos issue in April covered the results of their
>> reliability poll. If memory serves me right, the Santa Fe was rated way
>> above average in reliability. The Tucson was rated way below average. In
>> fact, the Santa Fe is Hyundai's most reliable model, and the Tucson was
>> Hyundai's least reliable model.
>
> I trust JD Power over Consumer Reports, primarily because Power gives
> out unfiltered consumer opinions, while CR "experts" distill their data
> and make their own recommendations. I prefer the unbiased scoop. Power
> retains PhD's in statistics to ensure sampling validity.
>
> Also, the Power surveys are fresher and more timely than CR. I've
> noticed this over the years, Power always spots the new trends in
> quality first and CR lags. You're not going to get a good read on the
> '06's from CR until next year. Power's Initial Quality Survey tells you
> what new car owners think of their '06's today.
You are comparing apples and oranges. The JD Power IQS is NOT a reliability
survey. It measures quality issues over a 90 day period, half of which
covers design defects (are those ***** intuitive?) and the other
manufacturing defects (do those panels align perfectly?). For reliability,
you want something like the JD Power 3 year reliability survey (where
Hyundai seems to do curiously badly). You can't measure reliability over
just 90 days.
In any case, you have not said anything meaningful to discredit the CR
survey. The results are empirical (they are ranked in terms of number of
problems), so there is little room to "distill" the data. The JD Power
results as reported in the media is even more "distilled" in that the news
reports have far less details. Heck, they don't even tell us their sample
size in their press releases. So you have no proof that CR manupilates their
data, no proof that the data is biased, no proof that one "filters" their
data more than the other. But the funniest part is that there is no way to
defend the Tucson based on bias: even a biased study has no reason to favor
one Hyundai SUV over another.
The reason for the reliability disparity is quite simple. While Hyundai has
made remarkable progress in reliability, they may not be as consistent
across all models or when first starting out. The Tucson is still very new,
and Hyundai may not have gottent their act together yet on this model.
Hyundais might need a number of years to get their reliability up. My 2001
Accent (a model introduced in 2000), is rated very poorly by JD Powers' 3
year reliability survey. But 2005 Accents are rated quite reliable by
Consumer Reports. Since the Tucson is also only in its 2nd year, you might
have a couple of years to go for it to shape up.
Chris
> Christopher Wong wrote:
>
>> The Consumer Reports autos issue in April covered the results of their
>> reliability poll. If memory serves me right, the Santa Fe was rated way
>> above average in reliability. The Tucson was rated way below average. In
>> fact, the Santa Fe is Hyundai's most reliable model, and the Tucson was
>> Hyundai's least reliable model.
>
> I trust JD Power over Consumer Reports, primarily because Power gives
> out unfiltered consumer opinions, while CR "experts" distill their data
> and make their own recommendations. I prefer the unbiased scoop. Power
> retains PhD's in statistics to ensure sampling validity.
>
> Also, the Power surveys are fresher and more timely than CR. I've
> noticed this over the years, Power always spots the new trends in
> quality first and CR lags. You're not going to get a good read on the
> '06's from CR until next year. Power's Initial Quality Survey tells you
> what new car owners think of their '06's today.
You are comparing apples and oranges. The JD Power IQS is NOT a reliability
survey. It measures quality issues over a 90 day period, half of which
covers design defects (are those ***** intuitive?) and the other
manufacturing defects (do those panels align perfectly?). For reliability,
you want something like the JD Power 3 year reliability survey (where
Hyundai seems to do curiously badly). You can't measure reliability over
just 90 days.
In any case, you have not said anything meaningful to discredit the CR
survey. The results are empirical (they are ranked in terms of number of
problems), so there is little room to "distill" the data. The JD Power
results as reported in the media is even more "distilled" in that the news
reports have far less details. Heck, they don't even tell us their sample
size in their press releases. So you have no proof that CR manupilates their
data, no proof that the data is biased, no proof that one "filters" their
data more than the other. But the funniest part is that there is no way to
defend the Tucson based on bias: even a biased study has no reason to favor
one Hyundai SUV over another.
The reason for the reliability disparity is quite simple. While Hyundai has
made remarkable progress in reliability, they may not be as consistent
across all models or when first starting out. The Tucson is still very new,
and Hyundai may not have gottent their act together yet on this model.
Hyundais might need a number of years to get their reliability up. My 2001
Accent (a model introduced in 2000), is rated very poorly by JD Powers' 3
year reliability survey. But 2005 Accents are rated quite reliable by
Consumer Reports. Since the Tucson is also only in its 2nd year, you might
have a couple of years to go for it to shape up.
Chris
07-29-2006, 09:15 PM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
On 2006-07-28, James <wimpyVO2max@gmail.com> wrote:
> Christopher Wong wrote:
>
>> The Consumer Reports autos issue in April covered the results of their
>> reliability poll. If memory serves me right, the Santa Fe was rated way
>> above average in reliability. The Tucson was rated way below average. In
>> fact, the Santa Fe is Hyundai's most reliable model, and the Tucson was
>> Hyundai's least reliable model.
>
> I trust JD Power over Consumer Reports, primarily because Power gives
> out unfiltered consumer opinions, while CR "experts" distill their data
> and make their own recommendations. I prefer the unbiased scoop. Power
> retains PhD's in statistics to ensure sampling validity.
>
> Also, the Power surveys are fresher and more timely than CR. I've
> noticed this over the years, Power always spots the new trends in
> quality first and CR lags. You're not going to get a good read on the
> '06's from CR until next year. Power's Initial Quality Survey tells you
> what new car owners think of their '06's today.
You are comparing apples and oranges. The JD Power IQS is NOT a reliability
survey. It measures quality issues over a 90 day period, half of which
covers design defects (are those ***** intuitive?) and the other
manufacturing defects (do those panels align perfectly?). For reliability,
you want something like the JD Power 3 year reliability survey (where
Hyundai seems to do curiously badly). You can't measure reliability over
just 90 days.
In any case, you have not said anything meaningful to discredit the CR
survey. The results are empirical (they are ranked in terms of number of
problems), so there is little room to "distill" the data. The JD Power
results as reported in the media is even more "distilled" in that the news
reports have far less details. Heck, they don't even tell us their sample
size in their press releases. So you have no proof that CR manupilates their
data, no proof that the data is biased, no proof that one "filters" their
data more than the other. But the funniest part is that there is no way to
defend the Tucson based on bias: even a biased study has no reason to favor
one Hyundai SUV over another.
The reason for the reliability disparity is quite simple. While Hyundai has
made remarkable progress in reliability, they may not be as consistent
across all models or when first starting out. The Tucson is still very new,
and Hyundai may not have gottent their act together yet on this model.
Hyundais might need a number of years to get their reliability up. My 2001
Accent (a model introduced in 2000), is rated very poorly by JD Powers' 3
year reliability survey. But 2005 Accents are rated quite reliable by
Consumer Reports. Since the Tucson is also only in its 2nd year, you might
have a couple of years to go for it to shape up.
Chris
> Christopher Wong wrote:
>
>> The Consumer Reports autos issue in April covered the results of their
>> reliability poll. If memory serves me right, the Santa Fe was rated way
>> above average in reliability. The Tucson was rated way below average. In
>> fact, the Santa Fe is Hyundai's most reliable model, and the Tucson was
>> Hyundai's least reliable model.
>
> I trust JD Power over Consumer Reports, primarily because Power gives
> out unfiltered consumer opinions, while CR "experts" distill their data
> and make their own recommendations. I prefer the unbiased scoop. Power
> retains PhD's in statistics to ensure sampling validity.
>
> Also, the Power surveys are fresher and more timely than CR. I've
> noticed this over the years, Power always spots the new trends in
> quality first and CR lags. You're not going to get a good read on the
> '06's from CR until next year. Power's Initial Quality Survey tells you
> what new car owners think of their '06's today.
You are comparing apples and oranges. The JD Power IQS is NOT a reliability
survey. It measures quality issues over a 90 day period, half of which
covers design defects (are those ***** intuitive?) and the other
manufacturing defects (do those panels align perfectly?). For reliability,
you want something like the JD Power 3 year reliability survey (where
Hyundai seems to do curiously badly). You can't measure reliability over
just 90 days.
In any case, you have not said anything meaningful to discredit the CR
survey. The results are empirical (they are ranked in terms of number of
problems), so there is little room to "distill" the data. The JD Power
results as reported in the media is even more "distilled" in that the news
reports have far less details. Heck, they don't even tell us their sample
size in their press releases. So you have no proof that CR manupilates their
data, no proof that the data is biased, no proof that one "filters" their
data more than the other. But the funniest part is that there is no way to
defend the Tucson based on bias: even a biased study has no reason to favor
one Hyundai SUV over another.
The reason for the reliability disparity is quite simple. While Hyundai has
made remarkable progress in reliability, they may not be as consistent
across all models or when first starting out. The Tucson is still very new,
and Hyundai may not have gottent their act together yet on this model.
Hyundais might need a number of years to get their reliability up. My 2001
Accent (a model introduced in 2000), is rated very poorly by JD Powers' 3
year reliability survey. But 2005 Accents are rated quite reliable by
Consumer Reports. Since the Tucson is also only in its 2nd year, you might
have a couple of years to go for it to shape up.
Chris
07-30-2006, 11:41 AM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
Christopher Wong wrote:
> You are comparing apples and oranges. The JD Power IQS is NOT a reliability
> survey. It measures quality issues over a 90 day period
Right, and by the same logic, Consumer Reports is not really a
reliability survey either -- it's a "historical reliability survey."
Here's the problem: CR sends out surveys in the spring and reports the
results in November. This means the CR data you read today reflects
what owners thought in 2005. Any major changes in quality occurring in
2006 is missed by current CR data and won't be published until this
November.
For car companies whose quality and reliability patterns are relatively
static, CR ratings are fine. But Hyundai is improving quality by leaps
and bounds. CR's methodology is too slow to give an accurate picture of
what's going on ^today.^
With JD Power's 90-day survey you at least get a timely snapshot of
recent owner experiences. If they have to take their cars back to the
dealer frequently due to quality issues, it's going to show up in
Power's survey.
> The reason for the reliability disparity is quite simple. While Hyundai has
> made remarkable progress in reliability, they may not be as consistent
> across all models or when first starting out. The Tucson is still very new,
For Hyundai, IMHO, I think you have it backwards. They are making
strides in quality very quickly, and the trend seems to be the newer
the design the better the build. This does not surprise me, the Koreans
are world leaders in computerized design, manufacturing and automation.
This may be why the newer models are doing so well in JD Power (fresher
data) and not Consumer Reports (last years data). In fact, CR wrote
that the predicted reliability of the 2006 Tucson will be "worse than
average." From what we know today, that prediction has proven to be
dead wrong.
> You are comparing apples and oranges. The JD Power IQS is NOT a reliability
> survey. It measures quality issues over a 90 day period
Right, and by the same logic, Consumer Reports is not really a
reliability survey either -- it's a "historical reliability survey."
Here's the problem: CR sends out surveys in the spring and reports the
results in November. This means the CR data you read today reflects
what owners thought in 2005. Any major changes in quality occurring in
2006 is missed by current CR data and won't be published until this
November.
For car companies whose quality and reliability patterns are relatively
static, CR ratings are fine. But Hyundai is improving quality by leaps
and bounds. CR's methodology is too slow to give an accurate picture of
what's going on ^today.^
With JD Power's 90-day survey you at least get a timely snapshot of
recent owner experiences. If they have to take their cars back to the
dealer frequently due to quality issues, it's going to show up in
Power's survey.
> The reason for the reliability disparity is quite simple. While Hyundai has
> made remarkable progress in reliability, they may not be as consistent
> across all models or when first starting out. The Tucson is still very new,
For Hyundai, IMHO, I think you have it backwards. They are making
strides in quality very quickly, and the trend seems to be the newer
the design the better the build. This does not surprise me, the Koreans
are world leaders in computerized design, manufacturing and automation.
This may be why the newer models are doing so well in JD Power (fresher
data) and not Consumer Reports (last years data). In fact, CR wrote
that the predicted reliability of the 2006 Tucson will be "worse than
average." From what we know today, that prediction has proven to be
dead wrong.
07-30-2006, 11:41 AM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the Tucson all that much better than the Santa Fe ?
Christopher Wong wrote:
> You are comparing apples and oranges. The JD Power IQS is NOT a reliability
> survey. It measures quality issues over a 90 day period
Right, and by the same logic, Consumer Reports is not really a
reliability survey either -- it's a "historical reliability survey."
Here's the problem: CR sends out surveys in the spring and reports the
results in November. This means the CR data you read today reflects
what owners thought in 2005. Any major changes in quality occurring in
2006 is missed by current CR data and won't be published until this
November.
For car companies whose quality and reliability patterns are relatively
static, CR ratings are fine. But Hyundai is improving quality by leaps
and bounds. CR's methodology is too slow to give an accurate picture of
what's going on ^today.^
With JD Power's 90-day survey you at least get a timely snapshot of
recent owner experiences. If they have to take their cars back to the
dealer frequently due to quality issues, it's going to show up in
Power's survey.
> The reason for the reliability disparity is quite simple. While Hyundai has
> made remarkable progress in reliability, they may not be as consistent
> across all models or when first starting out. The Tucson is still very new,
For Hyundai, IMHO, I think you have it backwards. They are making
strides in quality very quickly, and the trend seems to be the newer
the design the better the build. This does not surprise me, the Koreans
are world leaders in computerized design, manufacturing and automation.
This may be why the newer models are doing so well in JD Power (fresher
data) and not Consumer Reports (last years data). In fact, CR wrote
that the predicted reliability of the 2006 Tucson will be "worse than
average." From what we know today, that prediction has proven to be
dead wrong.
> You are comparing apples and oranges. The JD Power IQS is NOT a reliability
> survey. It measures quality issues over a 90 day period
Right, and by the same logic, Consumer Reports is not really a
reliability survey either -- it's a "historical reliability survey."
Here's the problem: CR sends out surveys in the spring and reports the
results in November. This means the CR data you read today reflects
what owners thought in 2005. Any major changes in quality occurring in
2006 is missed by current CR data and won't be published until this
November.
For car companies whose quality and reliability patterns are relatively
static, CR ratings are fine. But Hyundai is improving quality by leaps
and bounds. CR's methodology is too slow to give an accurate picture of
what's going on ^today.^
With JD Power's 90-day survey you at least get a timely snapshot of
recent owner experiences. If they have to take their cars back to the
dealer frequently due to quality issues, it's going to show up in
Power's survey.
> The reason for the reliability disparity is quite simple. While Hyundai has
> made remarkable progress in reliability, they may not be as consistent
> across all models or when first starting out. The Tucson is still very new,
For Hyundai, IMHO, I think you have it backwards. They are making
strides in quality very quickly, and the trend seems to be the newer
the design the better the build. This does not surprise me, the Koreans
are world leaders in computerized design, manufacturing and automation.
This may be why the newer models are doing so well in JD Power (fresher
data) and not Consumer Reports (last years data). In fact, CR wrote
that the predicted reliability of the 2006 Tucson will be "worse than
average." From what we know today, that prediction has proven to be
dead wrong.
