Brian Nystrom

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Darby OGill wrote:
>
>> how does moisture enter closed system?
>
>
> http://www.bobbyarchermotorsports.com/pdf_2848_2.pdf

Interesting article.

Brian Nystrom

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Darby OGill wrote:
>
>> how does moisture enter closed system?
>
>
> http://www.bobbyarchermotorsports.com/pdf_2848_2.pdf

Interesting article.

Bob Adkins

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:07:17 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:

>Darby OGill wrote:
>
>> how does moisture enter closed system?
>
>I'm not sure, but it does. Brake fluid turns dark as it absorbs
>moisture and it will turn dark over time.

The biggest issue with old brake fluid is not only moisture, but the
aluminum master cylinders some makes are using. Micro-grit and aluminum dust
from normal wear can accelerate master cylinder wear. A fluid change at 5
years or 100K is prudent.
--
Bob

Bob Adkins

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:07:17 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:

>Darby OGill wrote:
>
>> how does moisture enter closed system?
>
>I'm not sure, but it does. Brake fluid turns dark as it absorbs
>moisture and it will turn dark over time.

The biggest issue with old brake fluid is not only moisture, but the
aluminum master cylinders some makes are using. Micro-grit and aluminum dust
from normal wear can accelerate master cylinder wear. A fluid change at 5
years or 100K is prudent.
--
Bob

Eric G.

Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote in
news:f3c9e2ljsa2r2migf9rapo77gsgajejr9j@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:07:17 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Darby OGill wrote:
>>
>>> how does moisture enter closed system?
>>
>>I'm not sure, but it does. Brake fluid turns dark as it absorbs
>>moisture and it will turn dark over time.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe reading once that condensation from
temperature changes causes nearly all of the moisture in the brake fluid.

Eric

Eric G.

Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote in
news:f3c9e2ljsa2r2migf9rapo77gsgajejr9j@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:07:17 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Darby OGill wrote:
>>
>>> how does moisture enter closed system?
>>
>>I'm not sure, but it does. Brake fluid turns dark as it absorbs
>>moisture and it will turn dark over time.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe reading once that condensation from
temperature changes causes nearly all of the moisture in the brake fluid.

Eric

Eric G.

"Eric G." <NgOrSePeAnM99@Zoptonline.Znet> wrote in
news:Xns9822C80B0477CXz124HiiUdfEEE6@140.99.99.130 :

> Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote in
> news:f3c9e2ljsa2r2migf9rapo77gsgajejr9j@4ax.com:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:07:17 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Darby OGill wrote:
>>>
>>>> how does moisture enter closed system?
>>>
>>>I'm not sure, but it does. Brake fluid turns dark as it absorbs
>>>moisture and it will turn dark over time.
>
> Don't quote me on this, but I believe reading once that condensation
> from temperature changes causes nearly all of the moisture in the
> brake fluid.
>
> Eric

Sorry, that was a bad editing chop I did on that one. I was actually
replying to Matt and Darby, not Bob.

Eric

Eric G.

"Eric G." <NgOrSePeAnM99@Zoptonline.Znet> wrote in
news:Xns9822C80B0477CXz124HiiUdfEEE6@140.99.99.130 :

> Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote in
> news:f3c9e2ljsa2r2migf9rapo77gsgajejr9j@4ax.com:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:07:17 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Darby OGill wrote:
>>>
>>>> how does moisture enter closed system?
>>>
>>>I'm not sure, but it does. Brake fluid turns dark as it absorbs
>>>moisture and it will turn dark over time.
>
> Don't quote me on this, but I believe reading once that condensation
> from temperature changes causes nearly all of the moisture in the
> brake fluid.
>
> Eric

Sorry, that was a bad editing chop I did on that one. I was actually
replying to Matt and Darby, not Bob.

Eric

Matt Whiting

Eric G. wrote:

> Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote in
> news:f3c9e2ljsa2r2migf9rapo77gsgajejr9j@4ax.com:
>
>
>>On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:07:17 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Darby OGill wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>how does moisture enter closed system?
>>>
>>>I'm not sure, but it does. Brake fluid turns dark as it absorbs
>>>moisture and it will turn dark over time.
>
>
> Don't quote me on this, but I believe reading once that condensation from
> temperature changes causes nearly all of the moisture in the brake fluid.

But condensation doesn't create moisture, it only changes the state of
moisture that already exists. Completely dry air or other gas can be
cooled to absolute zero and not have water condense out of it.

Matt

Matt Whiting

Eric G. wrote:

> Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote in
> news:f3c9e2ljsa2r2migf9rapo77gsgajejr9j@4ax.com:
>
>
>>On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:07:17 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Darby OGill wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>how does moisture enter closed system?
>>>
>>>I'm not sure, but it does. Brake fluid turns dark as it absorbs
>>>moisture and it will turn dark over time.
>
>
> Don't quote me on this, but I believe reading once that condensation from
> temperature changes causes nearly all of the moisture in the brake fluid.

But condensation doesn't create moisture, it only changes the state of
moisture that already exists. Completely dry air or other gas can be
cooled to absolute zero and not have water condense out of it.

Matt

Eric G.

Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote in
news:Vo8Fg.564$Db4.55951@news1.epix.net:

> Eric G. wrote:
>
>> Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote in
>> news:f3c9e2ljsa2r2migf9rapo77gsgajejr9j@4ax.com:
>>
>>
>>>On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:07:17 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Darby OGill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>how does moisture enter closed system?
>>>>
>>>>I'm not sure, but it does. Brake fluid turns dark as it absorbs
>>>>moisture and it will turn dark over time.
>>
>>
>> Don't quote me on this, but I believe reading once that condensation
>> from temperature changes causes nearly all of the moisture in the
>> brake fluid.
>
> But condensation doesn't create moisture, it only changes the state of
> moisture that already exists. Completely dry air or other gas can be
> cooled to absolute zero and not have water condense out of it.
>
> Matt
>

Yes, you are right. I thought I read that somewhere though, but I can't
find the source.

So how else could moisture get in the system? Could it be just from
opening the cap once in a while to check the level/add fluid?

Eric

Eric G.

Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote in
news:Vo8Fg.564$Db4.55951@news1.epix.net:

> Eric G. wrote:
>
>> Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote in
>> news:f3c9e2ljsa2r2migf9rapo77gsgajejr9j@4ax.com:
>>
>>
>>>On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:07:17 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Darby OGill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>how does moisture enter closed system?
>>>>
>>>>I'm not sure, but it does. Brake fluid turns dark as it absorbs
>>>>moisture and it will turn dark over time.
>>
>>
>> Don't quote me on this, but I believe reading once that condensation
>> from temperature changes causes nearly all of the moisture in the
>> brake fluid.
>
> But condensation doesn't create moisture, it only changes the state of
> moisture that already exists. Completely dry air or other gas can be
> cooled to absolute zero and not have water condense out of it.
>
> Matt
>

Yes, you are right. I thought I read that somewhere though, but I can't
find the source.

So how else could moisture get in the system? Could it be just from
opening the cap once in a while to check the level/add fluid?

Eric

Matt Whiting

Eric G. wrote:

> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote in
> news:Vo8Fg.564$Db4.55951@news1.epix.net:
>
>
>>Eric G. wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote in
>>>news:f3c9e2ljsa2r2migf9rapo77gsgajejr9j@4ax.com :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:07:17 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Darby OGill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>how does moisture enter closed system?
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm not sure, but it does. Brake fluid turns dark as it absorbs
>>>>>moisture and it will turn dark over time.
>>>
>>>
>>>Don't quote me on this, but I believe reading once that condensation
>>>from temperature changes causes nearly all of the moisture in the
>>>brake fluid.
>>
>>But condensation doesn't create moisture, it only changes the state of
>>moisture that already exists. Completely dry air or other gas can be
>>cooled to absolute zero and not have water condense out of it.
>>
>>Matt
>>
>
>
> Yes, you are right. I thought I read that somewhere though, but I can't
> find the source.
>
> So how else could moisture get in the system? Could it be just from
> opening the cap once in a while to check the level/add fluid?

That certainly is the most obvious way, but moisture enters systems that
aren't opened. My Kawasaki Voyager had hyrdraulic brakes and clutch.
The master cylinders had the covers held on with screws and had a sight
glass to check the level. I never removed the covers between fluid
changes, but within two years the fluid would turn from its nearly clear
state when fresh from the can to dark brown.

The article I posted said that moisture (or maybe just oxygen) can enter
the system through the rubber brake lines. I know that oxygen can
permeate through things you would never imagine and cause oxidation.


Matt

Matt Whiting

Eric G. wrote:

> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote in
> news:Vo8Fg.564$Db4.55951@news1.epix.net:
>
>
>>Eric G. wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote in
>>>news:f3c9e2ljsa2r2migf9rapo77gsgajejr9j@4ax.com :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:07:17 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Darby OGill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>how does moisture enter closed system?
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm not sure, but it does. Brake fluid turns dark as it absorbs
>>>>>moisture and it will turn dark over time.
>>>
>>>
>>>Don't quote me on this, but I believe reading once that condensation
>>>from temperature changes causes nearly all of the moisture in the
>>>brake fluid.
>>
>>But condensation doesn't create moisture, it only changes the state of
>>moisture that already exists. Completely dry air or other gas can be
>>cooled to absolute zero and not have water condense out of it.
>>
>>Matt
>>
>
>
> Yes, you are right. I thought I read that somewhere though, but I can't
> find the source.
>
> So how else could moisture get in the system? Could it be just from
> opening the cap once in a while to check the level/add fluid?

That certainly is the most obvious way, but moisture enters systems that
aren't opened. My Kawasaki Voyager had hyrdraulic brakes and clutch.
The master cylinders had the covers held on with screws and had a sight
glass to check the level. I never removed the covers between fluid
changes, but within two years the fluid would turn from its nearly clear
state when fresh from the can to dark brown.

The article I posted said that moisture (or maybe just oxygen) can enter
the system through the rubber brake lines. I know that oxygen can
permeate through things you would never imagine and cause oxidation.


Matt

Cleopatra

Can you help me? I have a 2000 Hyundai Elantra - apparently there is a
problem with the transmission...I was told that it is an incorrect gear ratio
for the 4th gear (whatever that means)...Being as I do not have any
documentation concerning the 30,000 mi transmission service, the Hyundai
serviceperson told me that it probably won't be covered under warranty. My
car only has 57,000 mi on it also....I am the orig. owner...What exactly is
entailed in that 30,000 mi service that I would have missed out on? Is there
anything I can do now? Is this a big job to fix? Thank you....