Traffic Tickets & Car Insurance Discussion got a speeding ticket? need to fight the ticket in court, affecting your car insurance?.

$325 ticket for not stopping

Old 03-05-2009, 09:04 PM
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$325 ticket for not stopping

Hey guys, im in a sticky situation if someone could help me out ill be grateful.

Heres my charge:

Careless Driving contrary to H.T.A 130
fine total payable: $325

Shouldnt the ticket have been under:

Regulations, signs and markings

182. (1) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations requiring or providing for the erection of signs and the placing of markings on any highway or any type or class thereof, and prescribing the types of the signs and markings and the location on the highway of each type of sign and marking and prohibiting the use or erection of any sign or type of sign that is not prescribed. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 182 (1); 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 32.


or failing to stop? I dont understand how not stopping for 3 seconds before making a left turn falls under careless driving

I am heading eastbound on a small residential street with a posted 40 km/hr and a stop sign comes up. The intersection is deserted so naturally, i slow down and stop for like a microsecond and then proceed with caution to make a left turn.

I know i know, stop for 3 seconds. My bad.

Now cop is going westbound and was about 300 ft away from the intersection. As i crossed the intersection i saw him out the corner of my eye. Now i didnt realize he would stop me and give me such an enormous ticket.

thanks for your help

Last edited by empire123; 03-05-2009 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:07 AM
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It's careless driving because to the officer, you didn't care enough to come to a complete stop.

I love karma...
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Old 03-06-2009, 03:57 PM
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The 3 second rule is something your driving instructor told you to convince you to come to a complete stop. It is not a legal requirement under the HTA. (more info on this can be found on my website under how to fight a stop sign ticket)

Careless driving is one of the easiest charges to fight. Ironically, it's also one of the most severe under the HTA.

As always, request disclosure. It should reveal why you were charged and produce evidence that your road behaviour was a marked departure from the average person's due care and attention to their driving. Surprise, there won't be any evidence to constitute the charge. That's why the prosecutor will be extremely "generous" by offering you to plead guilty to a lesser charge.

But think about this: why would you plead guilty to a lesser charge when you can be found not guilty of the original charge?

****************************************

Step by step instructions:

1a. request disclosure (evidence, witness info, witness will say statements, criminal records, etc.) AND

1b. ask for an explanation and clarification of the charge: why was I charged, what evidence do you have that I have committed an offence?

2. When you get the cop's report (typed please), it will not give a good indication of why your were charged.

3. Re-request disclosure noting the essential elements of the charge and the reason why you were charged are missing.

4. File an application for a stay under s. 24(1) based on the fact that you were not provided with the evidence against you (a section 7 Charter violation) and you don't know what you did wrong (a section 11a Charter violation).

5. If it comes to trial, after the Crown has rested, you make a motion of non-suit based on the fact the Crown has not proven the charge.

Finally if you don't win #4 or #5 above, then...

6. Cite the following case: http://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/2008/2008oncj336/2008oncj336.html

Specifically paragraph 14:

In a careless driving case, what the Crown must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, is that the defendant drove without due care and attention. Careless driving is substantially different for instance, than a fail to stop case, where one only need to prove a failure to stop and the Crown has proven its case.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:30 PM
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ticketcombat, thanks for your detailed answer. Check your pm
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Old 03-12-2009, 11:23 AM
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the ticket seems to be so high.....it makes me sick
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Old 03-14-2009, 03:54 PM
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Its not a 3 second thumb rule, its 1-2-3, shouldnt take 3 full seconds.

Just had to throw that in before mpeople start driving me ****ing insane and stopping for 3 whole seconds.
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