Poppapete

so im cruising along on the QEW today and I take the exit at cawthra, and as Im waiting behind a bunch of cars an opp cop pulls up behind me, gets out of his car and takes my key from me..he says he was following me going 160 and i was pulling away from him...So he gave me a summons to appear with the charge of going 160 in a 100 zone.

I didnt get caught on radar but is what he said about following me going 160 proof enough for the ticket the stick?..I know it could be but here is the good part, which is probably going to be my defence..I only got onto the QEW on Hurontario which is only about 2 km from Cawthra, so is 2km long enough for the cop to judge that I was going 160?

anybody have any experience with this type of situation where no radar is involved?

Low-Low

First and foremost what you want to do is go to the courthouse and ask for a "meeting of resolution". Set up a date for one of those and see what the prosecutor offers you. 60 over is what, $500?

In terms of defense the cop will most likely say that it was based on radar. Pacing a car (as he says he was doing) rarely is ever the causation for writing a ticket that they'll admit.

CivicSiR00

Get a lawyer. They know the law a lot better and can get you out a lot easier.
To me its worth it. Got busted doing 180 by OPP. Got it cleared, and it was well worth the $$

BrowNKiD

iTrader: (1)

ud better get a lawyer... cause anything over 50 you lose your license.

Kuztom Freak

some cop cars have onboard cammeras and if he managed to record you then yer fukked, they dont use radar while driving (too many variables for the equipment and the "use" of the equipment in that manner would get thrown out in court). cops pace cars on the freeways all the time and DO hand out such tickets, i just dont know how it stands up in court tho, try n find out what proof he has other than his word, and tell the judge "hey, if an OPP cant do 160Kms, how the hell would I be able to have the room/space to in traffic" or something similar. BTW, what the fukk ya doing 160 next to an OPP station for???? ya know theres one right on the south east side of QEW an Hwy10 right. Get a lawyer.

gldwngr

If they got your speed by pacing you, they only need 100 to 200 meters to get a speed estimate acceptable to the court.

If they used radar, you being at that speed for even just a second is enough for the charge to stick.

In any case, kiss your license goodbye on conviction, and kiss your bank account goodbye when you eventually do get your license back and that 50%-100% insurance surcharge for major conviction kicks in for the next 3 to 6 years or so.

Wrong, they use moving radar all the time, and the tickets do stick in court.


A cop's "word" tends to carry a lot of weight in court unless you can prove his word was mistaken. Absent that proof, the JP will almost always take a cop's word over your own.


Huh? That argument falls right apart if they did get him by pacing him, because that means that they were able to follow him through traffic at 160 kmph for at least a short time.


This is about the only valid thing you've said in your entire post.

$9.75 per km over the limit plus victim surcharge should be about $715.


Huh? Pacing is used quite frequently, especially on the 401 where there are core/collector lanes and a rolling cruiser is not always able to line up behind a speed to lock radar on it.

Low-Low

Pacing a car is not an acceptable form of determining whether someone is speeding or not. It's not accurate and doesn't give an exact value.

Maybe read a traffic patrol handbook before you post next time. Pacing is only used to determine if you think they are speeding. The exact speed is determined using radar.

gldwngr

Man, you are so wrong. You obviously do not spend enough time in traffic court.

But be sure to go to court and try that "defence" if you are ever caught speeding by a cruiser pacing you. Have a friend there to snap pictures of the JP and Crown rolling their eyes when you do.

Poppapete

thanks for all the responses..alot of good advice. Im pretty sure if I plea bargain i can get it reduced to 49km over, seeing as how I have a clean driving record ..its either that, or dish out a bunch of cash for x-copper, who will probably do the same thing..

Kuztom Freak

heres what i was saying that you didnt understand gldwngr

IF the traffic was really thick and the OPP was far behind and being slowed by traffic then how does he know exactly how fast he was going, watching his meter and driving at that speed is recless even for a cop, PLUS if the guy was doing 160 and pulling away, the OPP SHOULD HAVE put on his sirens and cherrys and attempted to pull the speeder over, the OPP made a few lil mistakes on this one. If there was no one on the road, then the OPP should have been able to keep up and pull him over. So, too much traffic=inefective radar useage, little traffic=may have gotten by radar IF he was directly behind him as a car travelling in opposite direction "could" throw off the radar (non hand held unit) at a far distance. There are specific ways in which they use radar/lazer cuz there are many things that throw off radars, (my friend is a tickets guy for last several years, ive known cops/mto guys, the speeder here has a chance at getting off, still a speeding ticket but no way of ACTUAL proof, so maybe a 120KM ticket. The hand held radar is not used while driving cuz it bounces around and could be targetting any car especially larger vehicles like big rigs.

Moving radars are only good under certain circumstances, I dont think this cop met those requirements, cuz if he did, then he would also know the "pulling away" speed and the ticket may be for 175 instead, and Poppapete would have an actual ticket, i dont believe radar was used at all here, no time for the cop to turn it on, and properly use in 2kms travelling 160+ as 160+ is about 30 seconds a kilometer, so cop was caught off guard, by the time he sped up, set up gear, it was over and he got nada.

The "PROOF" I refer to from the cop (other than his word) is find out what method he used [spedo guage, camera, etc..] to see what you can use as a defence if anything

Regardless how good a cops eyes may be, they are not calibrated instruments and the cop may have "percieved" a small car travelling faster than it actually was, or it "felt" like the guy was doing 160 when he "actually" was doing 145. theres a reason why cops have instruments and their visual guess is not proof enough, only their account.

And thats why all those "pacing" tickets are reduced by the cops by 10-20Kms. So is the OPP guy then saying that he was travelling 180Kms????

By what ive heard from Poppapete, this cops got little stick on him, what does sound credible id\s that in deed this guy was speeding.

JP- "officer, how do you know he was travelling 160 and pulling away if you could not keep up and why then did you not attempt to pull him over" Remember that even tho a judge believes the word of a cop, they also hate it when cops waste court time without proof.

The fact that the cop didnt attempt to pull him over is a concern for a JP. What did the cop plan on doing, letting the guy slowly dissapear in the distance, wait for an accident in order to tag him?


Listen:- Ive had cops eventually pull me over when i was speeding (usually they got me 5 mins later when i was coming out of a store or at a buddys house) and gave me tix, and they always got thrown out of court, no lawyer needed, as they need to pull you over right away and not let you get away and find you parked somewhere 5 mins later, thats pure BS, Poppapete's tale is only a little different from mine, did you blast by the cop, how close/far was he from you, did he properly read yer plate or was it someone else and he mistakens you instead, all viable questions.

Ive sat in court lots, and I DO know what happens there, I also studied law once upon a time, it also depends on the JP. OPP's are respected more but also are expected more of than other cops.

Cerberus

You is screwed. Get a lawyer and slow down (if you can retain your license).

gldwngr

Short answer is "cop was going 160 kmph and the bike was still pulling away from him". That is enough to substantiate laying a speeding charge for doing 160. The cop's judgement that bike was pulling away from the cruiser is enough for the court. The bike could well have been doing 180, but the cop could not determine that because though he was doing 160 kmph, he was unable to keep up to the bike. Hence the 160 km charge which the cop CAN verify and testify to.

Whether the cops activated lights and siren is irrelevant. There is nothing in the HTA requiring that. All the cop has to do is follow at a distance and maintain visual contact to a degree that ascertains that the bike he stops is the same bike he followed. Being on a controlled-access highway makes this very easy. It is not comparable at all to losing a speeder in a local neighborhood and then finding the car involved "5 minutes later" parked at a store.

Dropping a speeding ticket by 10 or 20 kmph is not an admission of falibility - it is an indicement to pay up and avoid the larger burden of a court trial. Not all cops give that break, and those that do don't necessarily do it all the time.

But I do think he should go to trial and plead not guilty. That way any chance at a reduced reduction plea bargain is gone, this guy can be taken off the road for a while, and after his license is eventually returned, his insurance surcharges can serve as a continual reminder. Maybe that will slow him down some in future.

Low-Low

No actually your wrong.

First of all there is no "Crown" in traffic court, only a Prosecutor. The "Crown" appears in Criminal law, not HTA offences.

Second of all when the Prosecutor asks how the police officer ultimately determined the rate of speed the officer will say "radar". Pacing will only give an approximation of speed. I.E. is the Accused going about 160, by pacing, you can determine the accused is in fact going about 160. You cannot determine the exact speed of the accused using pacing. That is done during radar.

Finally I'll never be caught by a cruiser pacing me. I don't stop.

gldwngr

Speeding tickets issued as a result of pacing are the hardest types of speeding tickets to beat. You don't need radar to back up a speed obtained by pacing.

But be my guest and give it a whirl, assuming the police chase doesn't put you into a tree.

Kuztom Freak

dude, thats dumb, sorry. Radar is hard to beat cuz there is proof, burden of proof belongs on the officer, there are cops who hand out BS tix ya know, ive seen em in parking lots writting tix out to cars properly parked in normal spaces and the tix will say "parked illegally in a fire zone" just to meet quota, bro ya need proof otherwise every cop who hates/profiles special interest vehicles could write any ticket for anything.

I think this cop is hoping that he pleads guilty or something.

Listen, Ive been in court on BS tix b4 and the cops had crappy proof, well what can I say, Ive had the JP detain the cop(s) so i could leave the building so the JP could ring out the cop for being such a dumb *** and didnt want altercations in the hall. Cops hope for stupid ppl.

Maybe I missed it, but, where does it say the cop was doing 160, I only read the cop thought the guy was doing 160 and pulling away, Poppapete didnt say for sure, and i didnt just assume it was a bike.

Listen, the cop may not have been going 160 at all, or may have been 160 just trying to catch up, i think Poppapete has a chance, I see a lot of lack of proof, thats all.


Poppapete - ***** and complain like crazy that it wasnt you doing 160, if you were on a bike, its hard for radar to target on you, I think yer gonna get really lucky on this one, but consult a lawyer for sure, you have the right in court to question the cop, if ya got yer ***** together - its possible for you to make the cop look like a fool or to at least bring doubt on him by the JP.

good luck


PS. gldwngr, I like to gamble on wierd stuff and this kinda qualifies. Now this thing could go either way (I thinks anyways) and I dont know the whole story, wanna make a wager(s)?