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Huge Ticket Help
ok guys need a little help. so i was driving down a main road in fort erie. and i see a cop behind me. my plates are outta date and i have no insurence on the car. so i drive about 50 yeards and i se the red and blue lights. . i said. i knew i was ed at the moment. so the cop comes over and asks for identification. i says i dont have it on me. then he tells me to pull into a parking lot for surhter information. he asks me if the car is insured i saiys no. now the cop goes back to his car.(in the car for like 40 mins) so he finally comes with the verdict. he gives me 2 tickets. 1 for driving without insurence and 2 for not having a my plate dated. so he also says i have court date on april 25. and he tells me i cant drive the car home cause it had to plates. he leaves, and i drive home hehehehe. so if anyone has any info on this situation please help me out. i need as much help as possible :mad: :confused:
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i don't think you'll get any useful info for your problem here except for the standard "why did you drive w/o insurance?" or "you got what you deserved" response, so i suggest you find a GOOD traffic lawyer because you'll need it.
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Be happy. He could have ordered your car towed and impounded on the spot.
Also, he didn't ticket you for fail to produce driver's license. That alone will save you around $120, so now you're only on the hook for about $5,120. I'm sure the judge will give you time to pay. |
hopefully its only a minimum of $5000
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Originally Posted by 2003_honda_civic_si
hopefully its only a minimum of $5000
The judge may take pity and lower it some more, assuming this is your first time. If not, fines for a second offence starts at $10,000. By the way, you driving it home opened you up to be nailed for a second offence charge on the same night had you been caught. |
Red and blue lights???? Police in Ontario are red and white
How were you identified? Something with a photo? 2 pieces of written ID? It could raise doubt with only a written ID rather than something with a photo on it...other than that, plead guilty earlier, try to make some deal |
Originally Posted by Moosexing
Red and blue lights???? Police in Ontario are red and white
How were you identified? Something with a photo? 2 pieces of written ID? It could raise doubt with only a written ID rather than something with a photo on it...other than that, plead guilty earlier, try to make some deal The written id won't make any difference if the car is in his name. It's still the same offence for an owner to allow a car to be driven without insurance even if the owner is not the one driving it. The ID aspect is also going to be tough to fight because, guess who will show up in court in the 25th? It will be the guy who got the ticket. Why would he show up in court otherwise, unless he was in fact the person driving that night? The guy could just stay home that day and pretend it wasn't him, but then he's opening himself up to possible bench warrants, conviction in abstentia, and total lack of sympathy on the part of the JP meaning that $5,000 fine that might have been halved may instead be doubled by a pissed-off JP. |
Driving without insurance is a strict liability offence. This means that the prosecution does not have to prove your intent for you to be found guilty, but allow for a defence of "due diligence" . If you can show you acted with all due diligence or were acting on a mistaken set of facts that you reasonably believed, you may be able to get off the charge. There is plenty of case law out there.
for example: R. v Tjelta, the driver was charged with driving without insurance. However, the wife of the accused was responsible for handling all the family's insurance matters. The policies usually were up for renewal in April, except in the case of the vehicle in question which was due in January, and so the car was uninsured when the man was pulled over. The court ruled that the accused's reliance on his wife's report that the vehicle was insured was reasonable and constituted a valid defence and the charges were dropped. I don't think you want to defend yourself on this one. Get a lawyer, it will prolly cost you less than $5000. |
Originally Posted by Moosexing
Red and blue lights???? Police in Ontario are red and white
How were you identified? Something with a photo? 2 pieces of written ID? It could raise doubt with only a written ID rather than something with a photo on it...other than that, plead guilty earlier, try to make some deal |
How long had your ins been expired when you got ticketed .And why didnt you have any ins. Like you just didnt renew or got your d/ licence pulled for some reason ..77.
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Originally Posted by ..77.
How long had your ins been expired when you got ticketed .And why didnt you have any ins. Like you just didnt renew or got your d/ licence pulled for some reason ..77.
ok the car was not even etested or saftied yet. it had nothing no plates no insurence. thats why. i just finished doing body work on the car and went out for a drive, and next thing i know was the cop :mad: |
you better hope you can pull a horse shoe out your ass and hope you get a fortune cookie saying everything gonna be ok.. i can't see you getting off that much unless your dads the mayor
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so there is no hope for me? what if i get residents to come in and say that i am a good kid and all and that it was only a mistake. or can i just say i went out joyriding? there must be something
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Originally Posted by 2003_honda_civic_si
so there is no hope for me? what if i get residents to come in and say that i am a good kid and all and that it was only a mistake. or can i just say i went out joyriding? there must be something
How does you allegedly being a good kid negate the fact that you broke the law on more than one level? How does the excuse that you were "just joyriding" make it ok to break the law? You can't even use the excuse that you forgot that your tags expired or your insurance ran out, because you had neither on that car at any time in the first place. You took a car that had not been safety-inspected and was without plates or insurance out on the road for a spin. There is no excuse for that other than the usual "but I wanted to ..." excuse. And that excuse won't cut it in court. |
I believe the maximum fine for first time offence for driving without valid insurance is $5000. I've seen judges reduce the amount to $1000 for first-timers, but it's all up to the judge.
Sorry to say, but you are pretty much screwed. |
Here's a screwball idea: Say that you stole the car. Maybe the punishment for stealing cars is not as bad as the punishment for not having license plates and insurance. As a motorist you get tortured and beheaded by government, but especially if you're a young offender, the criminal justice system lets you get away with anything.
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Originally Posted by Superbird281
Here's a screwball idea: Say that you stole the car. Maybe the punishment for stealing cars is not as bad as the punishment for not having license plates and insurance. As a motorist you get tortured and beheaded by government, but especially if you're a young offender, the criminal justice system lets you get away with anything.
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Originally Posted by 2003_honda_civic_si
i didnt have my wallet on me. so then he assumed the car was stolen. so he was at his car for like 40 mins trying to figure the out. so i didnt have any identification on me. will this effect anything? come on guys i know there is a way outta this one.
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Originally Posted by 2003_honda_civic_si
ok so when the cop pulled me he asked for ID i said i didnt have any. so he assumed i stole the car. so he checked the vin number and what not and started looking. so can i fight that i didnt have any ID on me or something like that.? he never checked my registration or anything. i only have him ny name and address. :confused:
Same catch-22 remains. For that to work, you can't show up in court on the 25th of April. The reason you can't show up is because if it wasn't you driving, then it wouldn't have been you who got the ticket that night. If you didn't get the ticket that night, then how would you know to show up in court to fight the charge? If you don't show up though, now you face "fail to appear" charges. If you do show up in court to fight the charge, you have in effect confirmed your identity and that it was you driving that night. Only the person holding the ticket, that being the person driving that night, would know when to show up in court. You can fight on the grounds that you didn't have ID on you, but that doesn't change your guilt of driving with expired plates and no insurance. All that does is give them a confession by which they can charge you for failure to produce driver license, which they can do any time within 6 months from date of offence. You can try and claim the car was stolen, bit for that to work there needs to be a theft report on file. You could file a theft report, but that opens you up to criminal charges for filing a false report. You did it. Now it's time to accept responsibility and the consequences for your own stupidity. |
Originally Posted by yourmama
How does you allegedly being a good kid negate the fact that you broke the law on more than one level? How does the excuse that you were "just joyriding" make it ok to break the law?
You can't even use the excuse that you forgot that your tags expired or your insurance ran out, because you had neither on that car at any time in the first place. You took a car that had not been safety-inspected and was without plates or insurance out on the road for a spin. There is no excuse for that other than the usual "but I wanted to ..." excuse. And that excuse won't cut it in court. Anyways, welcome to my world, now the first court date will give you another court date, so dont really worry about it at first, now you have around 5 months to get a job and make some money for a good lawyer, either way you are going to get in BIIIIGGGG trouble(like me). a) Dont think about trying to forge insurance, that will get you into even more problems(another 10 thousand+criminal charges), b) A friend of mine had the same thing and he got his dropped to 2500 because he was a student(he had no lawyer with him) c) Its good that you were not involved in any accident because now you have a really high chance of ticket getting lowered. d) Dont try to act tough or say something like you werent driving, basically admit to your and sound sorry, i bet you that you are anyways so it wont be too hard, if you got the acting skills, break into tears and start crying. here is some help with that part: what you could of done with 5,000 Dollars: -Buy and Install a new engine for your civic -Get a turbokit -Go on 4 vacations -Buy Another car -Rent a lambo/ferrari for many days I hope this helps. |
but can i say that it wasnt me driving that night cause he never got my photo ID? i think there is a way :confused:
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I understand what you mean, im also thinking about doing something in that sort(quite different though) but you still HAVE to talk to a lawyer, get FREE estimate and advice from him, dont listen to the people here, especially yourmama, he seems to be bending over for the goverment for a while now.
Either way its FREE, so if he says that its possible you can try and do it yourself, in the end its still going to be your word against the cops word, and its gonna be hard without a lawyer, its good(in a way) you didnt tow your car that night since its lesss evidence you were there, but if you show up in court you ed up, talk to a lawyer. You will need to discredit the police officer, you need the disclosure, find out the ups he did(they always up one way or another). Also a friend of mine is getting off a very big ticket because the police officer pulled him over for no appearant reason, so you might be able to use that, but his lawyer is in the 30+ thousands of dollars price so yeah. listen you HAVE to get a lawyer if you want to reduce it alot. Period. |
Originally Posted by 2003_honda_civic_si
but can i say that it wasnt me driving that night cause he never got my photo ID? i think there is a way :confused:
Doesn't matter anyways. It was YOUR car. You can't let someone else drive it without insurance either. Same charge - same fine. Compulsory automobile insurance 2. (1) Subject to the regulations, no owner or lessee of a motor vehicle shall, (a) operate the motor vehicle; or (b) cause or permit the motor vehicle to be operated, on a highway unless the motor vehicle is insured under a contract of automobile insurance. 1994, c. 11, s. 383; 1996, c. 21, s. 50 (3). I'm telling you how it is when you get up on the stand in court. Everything you're thinking of has already been tried and failed at by others. Do you really think that the JP you will stand in front of would have just fallen off the back of a turnip truck? Do you really think the cop won't have already anticipated what you might try in court and prepared his notes accordingly? I also wouldn't put much stock in ivperformance's thoughts or judgement. If they carried any credibility, he himself wouldn't also be up facing the same type of charges. |
Originally Posted by ivperformance
dont listen to the people here, especially yourmama, he seems to be bending over for the goverment for a while now.
Now, you.... you will be bending over for the government soon enough. And it's going to hurt. |
I also wouldn't put much stock in ivperformance's thoughts or judgement. You of course are an angel yourmama, never did ANYTHING illigal, you might reply that you did but you were "smart" enought not to get caught, you were lucky enought, face it. here is something for you to think about(related to speeding but applies here perfect) call 911 by the way and surrender yourself for all the crimes you commited.: Q: Why do you advocate fighting tickets even though we know that we are actually guilty? Isn't this immoral? All my friends tell me I should deal with the consequences of committing a crime like a real man, and dutifully pay my dues. Am I being a dishonest and weaseling individual by fighting charges I know I did commit? A: First of all you should ask your friends, do they really think that speeding is in itself immoral? If they don't think speeding is immoral, there is no case. Obviously when they accuse you of dishonesty when you fight your ticket, they must think speeding is immoral. Now when this is established, you can ask them, "have you ever, knowingly or unknowingly, exceeded the speed limit on the highway? Have you reported this crime and submitted yourself to the police, even if you were not caught at the scene? Do you think you can weasel out of it because nobody knew? Being a righteous and honest person that you are, you should have reported all your speeding crimes and paid your fines right away? Or are you the same dishonest and weaseling individual that you accused me of?" This should get your friends thinking. Now is speeding really immoral? Not necessarily. In a lot of cases, it is just plain dangerous to stick to the speed limit religiously, when traffic flow is significantly faster. When you have a fixed speed limit which doesn't change according to any condition, speeding tickets should never be handed out. Speeding ticket themselves are immoral. Yes the speed limit is the law, but a wrong law which can be shown by its compliance (or lack thereof). It does not matter if you are actually guilty by the definition of the law. Speeding tickets are wrong and we should fight them. This situation is worsen by the fact that law enforcement officials use speeding tickets as a tool to generate revenue, and have a "safety" disguise. This speeding ticket business is seriously corrupt, and you should do something about it. Now that's dealing with the consequences like a real man. "Being a righteous and honest person that you are, you should have reported all your crimes and paid your fines right away? Or are you the same dishonest and weaseling individual that you accused me of?" CIVIC: Look, basically police have much more things that they can up and that can make a case against you dropped, you can be completley guilty but still get away with it. how do you think rapist and murderers walk ? you heard of contaminated evidence, bunch of bullshit like that, same thing with smaller problems like this, you have to find a flaw and exploit it, thats what lawyers do, go to a lawyer and try and find a flaw. |
Originally Posted by yourmama
I'm not bending over for the gov't. I'm just telling you like it is.
Now, you.... you will be bending over for the government soon enough. And it's going to hurt. p.s. I dont agree with the amount of money this ticket is, i actually believe it should be devided into two tickets, performing a violation while permit operate vehicle w/o ins(5,000$), and operate vehicle without insurance(1000$). i also dont agree with rapist walking the streets it was just an example. |
Originally Posted by ivperformance
The reason I got booked is not listening to other people to move my car during rush hour, the reason I got booked is because I wanted the least risk to society(and not me) as possible and did my in the middle of the night, moving a car one block, trying to save 80 dollars. It was stupid but I knew the consequances and now im facing them like a man. grow the up.
The reason you got caught was because you knowingly chose to break the law. Period. |
I knew it and now im facing the consequances, I know im going to be guilty but im trying to make it so i dont get the full penelty, just like anybody else would, im trying to help this guy out too, and what you are doing it telling him to go pay the ticket and shut up,
it comes down to the type of person you are, if you would be getting beat up would you fight back or curl up into a ball ? even if you deserve the beating . |
Originally Posted by ivperformance
I knew it and now im facing the consequances, I know im going to be guilty but im trying to make it so i dont get the full penelty, just like anybody else would, im trying to help this guy out too, and what you are doing it telling him to go pay the ticket and shut up,
it comes down to the type of person you are, if you would be getting beat up would you fight back or curl up into a ball ? even if you deserve the beating . This isn't about fighting back against being beaten. This is about you facing the legal repercussions of a poor choice. How you fight a traffic charge also says a lot about you. Ever heard the expression - taking your lumps like a man? |
i got a lawyer.i am gonna discuss this with him on march 10th. hopefully we find a hole to escape through :)
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if i have a chance not to face the full repercussions of a poor choice why would I make another poor choice and not take that chance ?
are you trying to make money for the police ? Youve been posting generally in this section, do you drive a car ? what car is it ? how modified is it ? do you street race ?(this is the toronto street racing forum...) which meets did you go to etobi or woodbridge? maybe some other place? So far ive never seen your car, or any reference to you participating in anything in this community, what the are you doing here if you are not with the police? |
Originally Posted by ivperformance
I dont agree with the amount of money this ticket is, i actually believe it should be devided into two tickets, performing a violation while permit operate vehicle w/o ins(5,000$), and operate vehicle without insurance(1000$).
And why should it be divided into two tickets anyways? If you perform a another violation while driving without insurance, they'll just issue you another ticket for any other violations regardless. Just like they did with you. |
Answear one question, i know there is a law that forbids you from lying and then using the information we post:
Are you in any way related to the police ? more detail: Are you a police officer, hired by the police, or are you volenteering(s), or in any way helping or working with the goverment? |
Originally Posted by ivperformance
Answear one question, i know there is a law that forbids you from lying and then using the information we post:
Originally Posted by ivperformance
Are you a police officer, hired by the police, or are you volenteering(s), or in any way helping or working with the goverment?
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i know for a fact that when you are offered drugs by an undercover you can ask if he is a police officer and he will have to tell you, if he lies the charges dont stand.(i dont do drugs by the way), im not sure how it is on the internet.
So you are evading the question, are you in any way working for or helping or volenteering or any part of the police ? p.s. dont call me sonny-boy pig. |
Originally Posted by ivperformance
did you give youself up for going 70 in a 60 zone last week yet ?
If I should ever get a ticket, I'm not going to lower myself to the level of scum and lie to avoid the consequences. So.... are you going to lie to try and get out of your tickets? Like I said, "how" one fights a ticket says a lot about that person. |
Originally Posted by ivperformance
i know for a fact that when you are offered drugs by an undercover you can ask if he is a police officer and he will have to tell you, if he lies the charges dont stand.(i dont do drugs by the way), im not sure how it is on the internet.
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you still didnt answear my questions, you are on this forum right. Why are you here, answear the questions, if you dont race.
are you part of some sort of anti street racing program? |
Originally Posted by ivperformance
you still didnt answear my questions, you are on this forum right. Why are you here, answear the questions.
But ok. I'm here for entertainment. Seeing how people can over and over again shoot themselves in the foot is quite amusing to watch. So.... what are you going to do next to amuse me? |
"If I should ever get a ticket, I'm not going to lower myself to the level of scum and lie to avoid the consequences."
I guarantee that your father fought tickets, are you saying hes scum. (sorry about my bad english, not too long in canada) I know why the police force is the way they are, they only see the bad side of society and they start becoming disgusted by it. You still didnt answear the actual questions, look up above. |
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