Ticketed for doing 156KM when I was only doing 117km
 

Hi all,

I'm not in Toronto, and I certainly don't have a fancy ride. A 1999 Pontiac transport mini-van that is showing it's age.

I was traveling south from Ottawa on the 416, going 117km per hour, on cruise. Then I saw a cop ahead in the median, facing the northbound lanes. So I thought, well he's facing the other way, and I'm not going that fast, rechecking my speed which was still a constant 117km.

I passed him.... then made my way to the next exit.... I was surprised he was following me. He pulled me over and asked me how fast I thought I was going....
I said "117" he said no, you were going 156.

I said "No way"

Then I showed him my GPS device... which was running at the time.... it had records the peak speed. and that setting stays on the device until it is cleared. It showed a speed of 136km.... I had moved the device from my other car earlier that day.... but the point was the peak speed ever recorded by that device was only 136km.... so his radar reading had to be wrong. The cop saw the 136 Km number, and even acknowledged that he saw it.

The cop told me that this is not the time to argue this. Then he took my license, and my van... and was going to leave us all wife, child and all, to fend for ourselves on an over pass on and 80km per hour road. He made it quite clear that it was not his responsibility to see to our safety once the vehicle was gone. (I managed to call a friend to pick us up via a cell phone)

What do you do in this situation.... the cop had to have been shooting his radar gun over his shoulder back up the highway to get me... (I'm requesting his notes, so I'll find out) How easy could it be in that kind of position to make a mistake? Is it possible to prove, or get this cop to admit that a mistake had to have been made?

Any advice?

First off get a lawyer. A good one.
Second, you pretty much admitted to going 136 kph to the cop, so was the ticket 156 kph or 136 kph?
And you said he left you in an 80 kph zone. Was the ticket issued for an 80 or 100 kph zone?
Also do some checking because I heard that there is a lawyer that is willing to take these stunting charges for free. Just something I heard last night.
I guess he wants to challenge the law.

you might want to consult with a traffic lawyer as to whether your gps device can be submitted as evidence. i would probably say "no", since i assume the device does not record the time of your alleged "117 km/h" and that peak 136 km/h is useless information. it's not the same as reading information from a car's blackbox since this device is a 3rd-party gps system.

Wait so he took your van because you were "racing" isn't he supposed to arrest you if you are "racing" then you would be under his safety after he arrested you and all harm done to you would be considered his fault. I'm pretty sure police officers are supposed to make sure your safe regardless so something definitely is wrong with this cop.

He was showing that the highest reading on his GPS was 136kph, not that he had recently been driving that speed. And perhaps HE wasn't even driving at that time (could have been his wife).

It really makes me feel enraged when I see how much power the police have to use their judgement on a charge that caries such serious penalties.

In addition to retaining an attorney, I would encourage you to relay this message to Dalton McGuinty himself. He is supposed to protect us from the police.
http://www.premier.gov.on.ca/feedback/default.asp

No, I told the officer that this speed of 136KM was the fastest speed ever recorded by the device since I had not reset it since I first got it. I told him, that it does not mean I was traveling at that speed today. I told him that the point was, if I was going 156km/hr then that would have been recorded on the device, and it wasn't.

You know, it's one thing if you were speeding and you were justifiably caught. But in this case there is no way I was doing what I was accused of. This isn't about me looking for a break because I was caught, I am innocent.

I certainly hope it's admissible, because crappy old mini-vans don't come with black boxes. I know, because I called the local GM mechanic. I was asking about the governor chips installed in many north american cars since the late 90s. Apparently the ones installed in the Pontiac Transport type mini vans are set to 160km/hr.

Information, I don't think will be helpful. I was hoping that if the governor was set to say 150 km/hr I could prove in court that it was physically impossible for my van to achieve the speeds I am accused of. so much for that. As for other information they could possibly read from the engine electronics, the mechanic suggested they might be able to get an RPM reading.

I also asked about getting my speedometer tested for accuracy. But hell, 97 miles per hour.... you'd have to be a retard not to be able to tell you were going a lot faster then the 117km/hr you speedometer was showing.

A 17 year old kid in the States just tried the GPS defense and lost :(

The judge ruled that the GPS system could not accurately place the position of the vehicle at the time of the radar reading. But YOUR case is different! If you could compile evidence from the GPS manufacturer that could prove your claim of a max. speed ever recorded was 136kph, you just might become a national hero!

Perhaps this could be the case that reverses the impoundment laws for good !!! :)

Not accusing you of looking for a break, just wanted to know what the ticket read.
You said he left you on an 80 zone and you showed him the GPS saying 136. That right there is 56 kph over.
Just wanted to clarify if it was a 136 in an 80 or 156 in a 100.
Its just like any charge. never admit to it. Showing a GPS speed to a cop can be like admitting to speeding.
I want to see this dumb ass law overturned and I hope you win the case.

Try XCOPPERS or OTT (Ontario Traffic Tickets) ontariotraffictickets.com
They're pretty good with dealing with tickets in markham / scarborough area.

OTT knows most of the courts around the area so they can take care of you.

Good luck

Not XCoppers... they just filed for bankruptcy.

why were you going 117 km/h in an 80 zone? Let alone with a child and family in the car.

Im willing to bet you were an to him and thats why he gave you the cold end of the metal rod right up your a$$.

I doubt a 99 pontiac transport can even get up to 156km'hr anyways lol

Why am I bothering to respond to a troll... on a 400 series highway, the speed limits are set to 100Km/hr. Highway 416 is a 400 series highway.

Actually, I talked to my mechanic about that. My van like others of that time period came standard with a factory installed governor to prevent these vehicles from exceeding a speed of 160 km/hr. It doesn't help us any, and as our mechanic says, technically our van can go 156 Km/hr it wouldn't be pretty, but it is technically possible.

Now part of me wishes the cop was a little bit more incompetent then he apparently was.... if he could have charged us with 165 in stead of 156, there would be no question of our innocence.

I've been considering, after this is all said and done getting an after market governor installed on both my vehicles, restricting them to 130 Km/hr. So if I ever get nailed with this farce again my ass is covered.

I really have to say, this cop sounded like one major freak. Prob had a bad day or something, nonetheless if he was the good cop he said/talked like he was, he wouldn't have left you and your family on the road. I would do seomthing about that personally

As an update, it's been almost a year now, and my lawyer and I have set a trial date for July. So by the time I actually get to court to speak my peace it will be over a year.

We were waiting for a ruling on the constitutionality of section 172, that was handed down last earlier this year. The judge who made the ruling sort of side stepped the issue, so according to my lawyer the ruling was "not helpful."

So now we are heading to trial. Between my wife's testimony, my testimony, my gps readings and such, my lawyer says we have a very good case, but there are never any guarantees. I was kinda hoping a constitutional ruling would make the whole thing go away.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

Had a similar situation myself, which is still in the court system right now. Good luck, you'll need it...

Good luck buddy.

It makes me sick hearing how that cop left you on the side of the road with little kid.
Karma is bi-a-tch.

that cop was a douchebag.

kmparalegal.com-
i would definetly like to see the notes from the cop on this one let me know i might just want to get involved-leaving your family on the road - what - and he said he wasnt responsible for your safty-im pissed only imagine yourself- it says protect and serve on the car-not take car and leave you stranded.
contact me at kmparalegal.com

Racing Ticket
 

these situations make me so angry. they put this law into place to stop RACING so why are you being punished to the full extent of the law for something you didnt even do!!! for a cop to be able to make the decision of your guilt on the spot and take your car away goes against the charter of rights. if you are found innocent, you will still have the towing and impounment fees. ridiculous!

there is a petition going around to change this law in case anyone is interested in signing it http://www.petitiononline.com/civil013/petition.html

also, i know this company well and they are always looking for cases like this to help out on. they said they would do work on cases like this for a good price to be able to challenge the law in court. check it out... www.trafficticketsolutions.ca/Racing_HTA_172.php

kmparalegal.com
i like the petion idea i would like some information and then your permission to put this link on my website
let me know at kmparalegal.com

oh, i just got that petition off of the internet....i dont think you need permission to link it as its a free online petition

as for the other company...i have gotten to know them quite well beczause of all the tickets i have gotten over the years. all i know is that they are a law firm and have lawyers that want to take on some specific cases for these stunt driving cases for the lawyers to take on in court. basically they are looking for cases where the person truely believes and has some sort of proof that they WERE NOT going over 50km over the limit. thewir car was impounded but it was not their car and it affected someone elses life (ie: wifes car, she couldnt get to work, to make money) or if it was a rental car.

thanks for the imediate response
I fight these things that is my sight- kmparalegal.com -
As for the law firm im only interested in helping people out in these situations
I have my own resources and have won these cases before but am interested in overturning the legislation I too feel that every case has it own unique characteristics thanks ill find out more about the petition if you have info in regards to this stuff its welcome
I appreciate it