Tickets on private property ?
02-20-2005, 12:11 AM
#1
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Tickets on private property ?
Im not going into details, but basically i pulled into a parking lot next to a friends building, got out of the car, the cop then came into the parking lot, saw us WALKING away from the car, asked if it was my car, and proceeded to giving me 5 tickets. Is there any way i can use the fact that i was not in the car when he approcahed me, and that its on private property?
02-20-2005, 01:04 AM
#4
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I think if you were given tickets related to offences that occured on public road ways , he can give you the tickets anywhere you,re parked. Like it was said , we need more info to give a reasonably response..77.
02-20-2005, 01:50 AM
#5
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noise
improper muffler
not registering vehicle within 6 days
plates not assigned to vehicle
operate motor vehicle without insurance = $$$$$$$$$$$$$
I was moving my car to my friends house since he had an extra spot for me, it was 5 am so i was pretty sure its a safe time to do it. The exhaust was busted so when I pulled into the apartment he must of heard my car. he pulled in and thats when he saw me and my friend walk away from the car, thats when he asked for my and I had nothing but signed ownership and bill of sale, im pretty sure i never admitted to driving the car, and there could of never been any way for him to tell my face or see the plate number while I was on the road.
he also told my friend to "get the out of here" because he was mouthing off while the officer was writing a ticket. funny thing is that it was his place of residence( apartment building), when my friend refused he gave him a traspassing ticket. basically a son of a bitch cop, we werent mouthing off before he started writing the tickets.
any help with this ? i have court of march 13, also any suggestion on a good lawyer in this type of a case ?
p.s.
this is second court date...
improper muffler
not registering vehicle within 6 days
plates not assigned to vehicle
operate motor vehicle without insurance = $$$$$$$$$$$$$
I was moving my car to my friends house since he had an extra spot for me, it was 5 am so i was pretty sure its a safe time to do it. The exhaust was busted so when I pulled into the apartment he must of heard my car. he pulled in and thats when he saw me and my friend walk away from the car, thats when he asked for my and I had nothing but signed ownership and bill of sale, im pretty sure i never admitted to driving the car, and there could of never been any way for him to tell my face or see the plate number while I was on the road.
he also told my friend to "get the out of here" because he was mouthing off while the officer was writing a ticket. funny thing is that it was his place of residence( apartment building), when my friend refused he gave him a traspassing ticket. basically a son of a bitch cop, we werent mouthing off before he started writing the tickets.
any help with this ? i have court of march 13, also any suggestion on a good lawyer in this type of a case ?
p.s.
this is second court date...
Last edited by ivperformance; 02-20-2005 at 01:53 AM.
02-20-2005, 03:25 AM
#6
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Cops sees your car, follows it in. Cop doesn't have to see you driving to make the heaviest of those tickets stick. All he needs is to be reasonably certain that you permitted the operation of the car, with those issues outstanding, by someone whether that be yourself or someone else. Seeing as the cop actually saw you walking away from the car, and may have seen you in the car, and driving the car, you have very little basis to claim that you were unaware the vehicle was being operated in such circumstances without your knowledge and permission, regardless of who was actually driving the car.
Not registering a transfer of ownership within 6 days applies whether you drive the car on the street or just use it as a junker for parts or as a field car.
Using another person's license plates is really bad and I know one person sent to jail for a weekend even when all he did was take "his own plate" from "one of his cars" to put on "another of his own" cars. You can be nailed for this even if you weren't the one actually driiving the car, and even if your car never leaves your driveway. You and the owner of the plate can both be charged for that.
12. (1) Every person who,
(d) uses or permits the use of a number plate upon a vehicle other than a number plate authorized for use on that vehicle;
is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $100 and not more than $1,000 or to imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or to both, and in addition the person’s licence or permit may be suspended for not more than six months. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 12 (1).
No insurance - this one is bad and it doesn't matter if you were driving or not.
2. (1) Subject to the regulations, no owner or lessee of a motor vehicle shall,
(a) operate the motor vehicle; or
(b) cause or permit the motor vehicle to be operated,
on a highway unless the motor vehicle is insured under a contract of automobile insurance. 1994, c. 11, s. 383; 1996, c. 21, s. 50 (3).
...
is guilty of an offence and is liable on a first conviction to a fine of not less than $5,000 and not more than $25,000 and on a subsequent conviction to a fine of not less than $10,000 and not more than $50,000 and, in addition, his or her driver's licence may be suspended for a period of not more than one year. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.25, s. 2 (3); 1996, c. 21, s. 50 (4).
The noise one is easy to convict you of seeing as you admit the exhaust was broken. Improper muffler may also stick for the same reason, but those two tickets are the least of your worries.
Your friend's trespass ticket may or may not stick. It's real easy to be charged with trespass even in a public place. Was the place he was standing a parking that actually belonged to his place of residence, or was that parking lot a separate property next door to his place of residence? Has the owner of that property posted any signs regarding permitted use of the property and/or hours of access?
In any case, the fine for POA trespass is peanuts compared to the fines and potential jail and driver's license suspension time you are facing. You should have splurged for a tow truck.
Not registering a transfer of ownership within 6 days applies whether you drive the car on the street or just use it as a junker for parts or as a field car.
Using another person's license plates is really bad and I know one person sent to jail for a weekend even when all he did was take "his own plate" from "one of his cars" to put on "another of his own" cars. You can be nailed for this even if you weren't the one actually driiving the car, and even if your car never leaves your driveway. You and the owner of the plate can both be charged for that.
12. (1) Every person who,
(d) uses or permits the use of a number plate upon a vehicle other than a number plate authorized for use on that vehicle;
is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $100 and not more than $1,000 or to imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or to both, and in addition the person’s licence or permit may be suspended for not more than six months. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 12 (1).
No insurance - this one is bad and it doesn't matter if you were driving or not.
2. (1) Subject to the regulations, no owner or lessee of a motor vehicle shall,
(a) operate the motor vehicle; or
(b) cause or permit the motor vehicle to be operated,
on a highway unless the motor vehicle is insured under a contract of automobile insurance. 1994, c. 11, s. 383; 1996, c. 21, s. 50 (3).
...
is guilty of an offence and is liable on a first conviction to a fine of not less than $5,000 and not more than $25,000 and on a subsequent conviction to a fine of not less than $10,000 and not more than $50,000 and, in addition, his or her driver's licence may be suspended for a period of not more than one year. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.25, s. 2 (3); 1996, c. 21, s. 50 (4).
The noise one is easy to convict you of seeing as you admit the exhaust was broken. Improper muffler may also stick for the same reason, but those two tickets are the least of your worries.
Your friend's trespass ticket may or may not stick. It's real easy to be charged with trespass even in a public place. Was the place he was standing a parking that actually belonged to his place of residence, or was that parking lot a separate property next door to his place of residence? Has the owner of that property posted any signs regarding permitted use of the property and/or hours of access?
In any case, the fine for POA trespass is peanuts compared to the fines and potential jail and driver's license suspension time you are facing. You should have splurged for a tow truck.
02-20-2005, 07:48 AM
#7
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I agree with yourmama
Why would one not try to move the car during heavier traffic in the day, might not have been noticed. Moving at 5am with a clunker certainly would sent up a "red flag" to even a "rookie" officer.
And to think the rest of us pay thousands for insurance
, some part in reason for others than might strike us that don't have insurance at all.
Hmmm the amount of fines you got and going on your driving record as compared to a $60-$100 tow bill.
Next time get a tow truck
Why would one not try to move the car during heavier traffic in the day, might not have been noticed. Moving at 5am with a clunker certainly would sent up a "red flag" to even a "rookie" officer.
And to think the rest of us pay thousands for insurance
, some part in reason for others than might strike us that don't have insurance at all.Hmmm the amount of fines you got and going on your driving record as compared to a $60-$100 tow bill.
Next time get a tow truck
02-20-2005, 10:58 AM
#9
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is there a date on the signed ownership.. Was it more then 6 days?
Yeah, basically you screwed up and i'm not sure fighting it will get you very far.. You put the wrong plates on, you drove it with no insurance, you knew it had the bad exhaust.. so on..
However, you buddy can clear his trespassing fine up. If thats his place of resisdence and the cop wrote him the ticket.. he cn clear that up.. Justice of the peace can do that i believe...
Goodluck..
Yeah, basically you screwed up and i'm not sure fighting it will get you very far.. You put the wrong plates on, you drove it with no insurance, you knew it had the bad exhaust.. so on..
However, you buddy can clear his trespassing fine up. If thats his place of resisdence and the cop wrote him the ticket.. he cn clear that up.. Justice of the peace can do that i believe...
Goodluck..
02-20-2005, 03:29 PM
#12
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Noise & Improper muffler you should be able to get of. Especially since it's in the process of changing owners. Last I checked, it is NOT a ticket for not registering the car within six days. How the hell did he come up with that?
The plates ticket will stick. If you owned the car, you could have used your other plates(assuming they are valid) to transport it.
No insurance....Get a lawyer. It's you're only chance as there are so many different charges here. The officer can just go up to the stand and lie though, your dispute is out the window...It's a stupid system. PS for the "trespassing" ticket, that is stupid. It will get thrown out no matter what. Representing myself I got it down to $1000 but it's not cheap. Ins. is a bitch here and the government won't stop rate hikes because they profit from it in the way of tickets AND tax on premiums.
The plates ticket will stick. If you owned the car, you could have used your other plates(assuming they are valid) to transport it.
No insurance....Get a lawyer. It's you're only chance as there are so many different charges here. The officer can just go up to the stand and lie though, your dispute is out the window...It's a stupid system. PS for the "trespassing" ticket, that is stupid. It will get thrown out no matter what. Representing myself I got it down to $1000 but it's not cheap. Ins. is a bitch here and the government won't stop rate hikes because they profit from it in the way of tickets AND tax on premiums.
02-20-2005, 03:46 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by Supra90T
NLast I checked, it is NOT a ticket for not registering the car within six days. How the hell did he come up with that?
The plates ticket will stick. If you owned the car, you could have used your other plates(assuming they are valid) to transport it.
The plates ticket will stick. If you owned the car, you could have used your other plates(assuming they are valid) to transport it.
Where transfer of ownership or end of lease
11. (1) Upon the holder of a permit ceasing to be the owner or lessee of the motor vehicle or trailer referred to in the permit, he, she or it shall,
(a) remove his, her or its number plates from the vehicle;
(b) retain the plate portion of the permit; and
(c) on delivery of the vehicle,
(i) to the new owner, complete and sign the transfer application of the vehicle portion of the permit including the date of the delivery and give that portion of the permit to the new owner, or
(ii) to a lessor, give the vehicle portion of the permit to the lessor. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 11 (1).
Re-issue of permit
(2) Every person shall, within six days after becoming the owner of a motor vehicle or trailer for which a permit has been issued, apply to the Ministry, on the form provided therefor, for a new permit for the vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 11 (2).
Fail to apply for permit on becoming owner 11 (2) $90.00
You can't just take the plates off one car you own and stick them on another car you own, unless you first formally assign those license plates off the original vehicle and onto the new one.
Temporary use of plates
(3) Despite section 12, a person to whom number plates have been issued under subsection 7 (7) for a vehicle the person no longer owns or leases may affix the number plates to a similar class of vehicle that the person owns or leases where it is done in accordance with the prescribed requirements. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 11 (3).
The ironic part is that all Ontario insurance companies, assuming you already have valid insurance on another car you already own, will also automatically cover any fit car (new or used) for a few days immediately following the date of purchase. Had this guy formally transferred the ownership within the 6 days before he got caught, and assuming he still had insurance on the other car of his, he would have been covered by insurance and wouldn't be facing the no insurance charge. He'd also have avoided the fail to transfer ownership charges.
Last edited by yourmama; 02-20-2005 at 03:52 PM.
02-20-2005, 03:53 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by yourmama
The ironic part is that all Ontario insurance companies, assuming you already have valid insurance on another car you already own, will also automatically cover any fit car (new or used) for a few days immediately following the date of purchase. Had this guy formally transferred the ownership within the 6 days before he got caught, and assuming he still had insurance on the other car of his, he would have been covered by insurance and wouldn't be facing the no insurance charge. He'd also have avoided the fail to transfer ownership charges.
thats good to know
