Traffic Tickets & Car Insurance Discussion got a speeding ticket? need to fight the ticket in court, affecting your car insurance?.

XCoppers took my money and LOST-How to get it back?

Old 11-28-2007, 04:57 AM
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XCoppers took my money and LOST-How to get it back?

Hi all,

As everyone has probably come to realize after reading so many bad reviews on this forum, X-Coppers don't do jack sh*t for you! Never use them!

I had a charge for two demerit points for turning left at Yonge and Queen when there was a no left turn sign. Did it very safely (exactly like how I would have turned on any other street) but unfortunately, it was Yonge street and most of the major streets that intersect it after Bloor , are no left turns. Police were out that night. Not so good for me..

Ok, so on the court date, I was called out of the country for an important business trip, so I hired X Coppers to represent me. I just recently got a notice saying, not only did I get convicted of the two points, I have a ninety dollar fine as well. I am furious! Especially since the analyst heard my situation and told me they were going to be able to reduce the charge to no demerit points. Paid them three hundred bucks for this outcome.

Here's the thing I find shady, I was told by the analyst that my case was a very minor case, most probably they would win. From reading numerous experiences on the internet, most ppl are able to get a reduction of some sort if someone shows up in court. I called the court, and indeed, someone did come represent me. A two pointer is the lowest offense someone could be charged with, how could an experienced ticket fighter not be able to reduce this?!!!!! Where is the disconnect here? Was he possibly late? How can I check this? What else could have happened where the court would refuse to lower my offense? XCoppers even said they went to trial afterwards and the Justice of Peace found me guilty. How can I verify this as well?

Main question though is, for other ppl reading this post who have hired X-Coppers, how am I able to get all of my money back? I have read a couple of posts where people were able to do so after the XCoppers did not reduce any of the charges. What did you guys do? Threaten to email everyone you know with what happened to you? Threaten to bring them to small claims court?

What sorts of things can we do to make sure these guys start taking some accountability?!

Thanks in advance for all of your suggestions

-Liz
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:02 PM
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when you hired xcoppers, you signed an agreement which stated how far they would go. the agreement would look something like this:

I, Your Name, (the client) instruct X Copper Legal Services or it’s designate
______________________________________ to act as my agent and to enter a plea on my behalf to a lesser charge reflecting the specific signed instructions below.
I understand that by pleading guilty, (even to a lesser offence), this waives my right to a trial and relieves the prosecution of proving its case beyond a reasonable doubt. I understand that a fine may be imposed by the justice for which I may be responsible.
and the instructions to the agent will look like this:

INSTRUCTIONS TO AGENT – pursuant to X-Copper’s Guarantee (In order of preference):
1. Withdraw the charge
2. 0 points
3.
4. Trial
CLIENT REQUIRED TO ATTEND COURT: NO
DISCLOSURE REQUIRED: NO
so what that means is that they will first try to withdraw the charge, if they can't they will settle for no points. if they satisfy the no points they consider that a win. but in speeding cases for example, you still get convicted of speeding and your insurance may still increase, but there's no points attached.

you should take a look at your agreement to see what they indicated to their agent to do. if you want to see what the agent said/did, you need to submit a request for the court transcripts for that date/time. i believe the charge is $25 to get a copy of the transcripts.

yes, xcoppers is a scam, they pray on vulnerable people who expect them to "get the ticket off", but put sneaky wording in their contracts which allow them to consider no points as wins, even if it still means a conviction.
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Old 11-30-2007, 01:50 PM
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Thanks for sending that over

Hello,

Yes, they claimed they went all the way to a trial and still lost. However I find it really shady that the analyst looked at my case in the beginning and kept telling me it was one of the easiest cases around (since it was one of the most minor offenses possible, 2pointer-no left turn at intersection at certain times) and they would be able to get me down to 0 points and no fees. From reading other people's posts now about them representing themselves at court, and being able to reduce a lot heftier offenses to minor ones, I have no doubt the offense would have been lessened if the agent even put half the effort they would with any speeding ticket.

Is there any proof the agent can show me to prove they had done everything they could to win the case? B/c anyone could walk into the court from X-Coppers, say they are representing me in the case and literally do nothing to defend my case and then walk out of there.

I have also read posts where X-Coppers have taken people's money, not even shown up and when the person gets a bill in the mail and calls them up to ask what happened, they will actually lie that an X-Copper agent showed up and just ended up losing (when in fact the person lost because no one showed up).

I have already ordered the transcripts however those take at least 9 months to come. If I find mistakes in how the X-Copper agent handled the case, at that point, would I be able to make a viable complaint to the company and get my money back?

Thanks Again!
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Old 11-30-2007, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by goneinsixtyseconds View Post
yes, xcoppers is a scam, they pray on vulnerable people who expect them to "get the ticket off", but put sneaky wording in their contracts which allow them to consider no points as wins, even if it still means a conviction.
In my case, not only did they not reduce the points, there was even a fine on top. I walked into their offices with a 2 pt offense, after they dealt with my case, I came out with not only two points but a $90 fine! What the heck did they do ? Nothing to earn the money I paid them!

And if they really did ALL they could do and they claimed they sent their best man forward to represent me, they must really suck at their cases because they can't even reduce a 2 point non speeding violation?!
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Old 12-01-2007, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by XCoppersRCrooks View Post
Is there any proof the agent can show me to prove they had done everything they could to win the case?
short answer, no, unless you provided them with evidence to use in court, most agents of xcoppers walk in with essentially nothing more than the officers notes (if they ordered disclosure prior to the trial). this is where the court transcripts come into play and you can see what exactly they said/did.

Originally Posted by XCoppersRCrooks View Post
I have already ordered the transcripts however those take at least 9 months to come.
are you sure it takes 9 months? the last time i spoke to another traffic fighter (not x-coppers) they said they could receive court transcripts fairly quickly and prior to dealing with my case.

Originally Posted by XCoppersRCrooks View Post
If I find mistakes in how the X-Copper agent handled the case, at that point, would I be able to make a viable complaint to the company and get my money back?
short answer, no, x-coppers will only refund money as per the agreement you signed. ie., if they guaranteed to pay for your fine if they lost, that's all they will do, unless you specified in the contract that you would receive your full payment back if they did lose, but that's highly unlikely.
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Old 12-01-2007, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by XCoppersRCrooks View Post
And if they really did ALL they could do and they claimed they sent their best man forward to represent me, they must really suck at their cases because they can't even reduce a 2 point non speeding violation?!
i'm sure they didn't necessarily send their "best man forward", ie. David Matheson, they probably sent one of their lacky agents.

there's essentially nothing you can do at this point in terms of getting a refund with xcoppers. you can try to complain to the analyst you dealt with, but i'm fairly certain they'll give you the "F-OFF" and that they aren't responsible for the outcome (and will point to their disclosure to which you signed). i'll paste it below, but you can see that they cover their a$$'s pretty well.

I understand that "X-COPPER LEGAL SERVICES INC.", and its designates except where expressly
clarified, are NOT lawyers, or are otherwise governed by the Law Society of Upper Canada, but instead,
are Agents as provided for in section 50 (1) of the Provincial Offences act, and section 802 (2) of the
Criminal Code of Canada. Accordingly, I understand that there is not presently any binding code of
ethics, or governing authority to sanction the professional conduct of paralegals in Ontario, or therefore,
any avenues of appeal or alternative recourse in the event that I am ultimately dissatisfied with my agent's
conduct. I am familiar with all the relevant distinctions between a lawyer and an agent with respect to
educational and empirical standards, and am duly content that my interests are accommodated by "XCOPPER
LEGAL SERVICES INC."
I am aware, that consequent to an agent's non-lawyer status, I cannot comfort myself in "solicitor-client
privilege", even to the extent that my agent could conceivably be required to give evidence against me in
this proceeding.
In the event of a conviction being entered, any appeal which may ensue, will need be founded therefore,
in specific legal principles, other than complications directly associated with my agent's performance.
I finally understand that notwithstanding a guarantee, where applicable, of full or partial refund in the
event of unsuccessful specific performance, should a conviction ensue, and I elect to secure the assistance
of "X-COPPER LEGAL SERVICES INC." for the purposes of an appeal, the original agreement shall be
deemed at a close, replaced by wholly and entirely new consideration.
Having regard to the above, and in anticipation of any ancillary concerns of this Honourable Court, or the
Crown, I ask that I be allowed to proceed represented by "X-COPPER LEGAL SERVICES INC."
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Old 12-01-2007, 04:49 PM
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They could not drop anything because you decided to go to trial. If you decided to do a plea bargain, then you would have got atleast something dropped. You can always try to reopen your case, and re-do everything. But as for getting your money back from xcoppers its unlikely.
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Old 12-03-2007, 12:41 AM
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I was dissatisfied with Xcoppers performance on a case of mine's as well.
Only managed to drop a 120 in an 80 down to a 105 in an 80.

My acquaintance, who was driving in front of me, also getting an identical ticket for 120 in an 80, went to court in front of the judge and got hers dropped to 100 in an 80.

No $300 Xcopper fee, and better result.



I had much better success with the PointSS, on a careless driving charge to boot.
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:44 PM
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you can never have demerit points dropped....only the fine can be decreased
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