B6T

That's true... the Quattro apparently is one of the strongest AWD systems out there.

livinlow

iTrader: (1)

This thread isin halarious.

GM vs JAPENESE oh my god.

#1 No one will ever win.GM ppl are way way WAY to ignorant to ever admit some other car is better then theirs.

#2 Saying the quad 4 is a good motor with AFTERMARKET headgasket,My point is rite their,Were talking about FACTORY not aftermarket ,That engine is poo from factory so shut up about it.

#3 Japenese cars will always ALWAYS own any domestic car.My point for example Honda civic vs ZO6 corvette.Put $10g's into a hatchback and you're raping,Yes i said RAPING a corvette ZO6 and you're still getting way better gas milege,Care to prove me wrong feel free but you won't,Power to weight owns all.

#4 Grand am GT,Who the wants to own a grand am,I don't so end of story.

#5 I bet every person sticking up for domestics in this thread owns a J-body.I pity you.

#6 Saying JAP VS DOMESTIC and only talking about GM geez shut up,JAP VS GM their you go.Ford mustang very capable of greatness for less cost then a corvette,so please GM ppl SHUT UP about you're crappy cars.

#7 Let's get ready to rumble cause i'm sure the GM guys are about to get all pissy.

#8 ALL my points are very valid and unarguable,BUT GM ppl will say otherwise watch and see.

sleepy GSR

Dude, i'm a honda owner and i still think you're wrong to generalize like that.
saying that japanese cars will always own ANY domestic is stupid, i'm not even gonna bother with examples cause youre probably gonna come up with something stupid to say about everything i tell you.

and BTW a civic that will rape a vette (obviously possible) will get very shitty gas mileage, by far worse than the new Z06 (which are BTW very light).
just my 2 cents.

SuprAdam

Show me a honda civic that can run 0-100km/h in 3.9sec, 1/4 mile in 11.7@125mph, pull off a 1.04g on a skid pad and have a top speed of 198mph on street tires, in full street trim/legal for $10 000.

And throw in 50/50 weight distribution.

rabbitman

iTrader: (3)

That's Strokeraces specialty.

Nastyzed

Hahaha Shut the up with this import smack talking.. The big three own half if not more of the shares in almost every japanese company. Hows mitsu doing? LMFAO last I checked chrysler dropped all funding. Your mazda wouldent even be afloat if it wasent for ford so your cars credibilty is reduced to ZERO. Ford owns over 60% of mazda. The retro craze is in people want retro looking cars and japanese cant relate because they have none. The 300 series has stolen back alote of camry and accord buyers already and was recently named car of the year. Even the malibu although i don't like the syleing has gained respect. Quality is up and better then ever. With technology like displacement on demand will allow us to buy big V8s such as the HEMI with the ease of decent gas mileage. Get over it and B6T for god sakes let the rotary dream die it will never go into mass production through the automotive indistry again. The mazda rotarys get the gas milage of a LS1 with half the displacment and reliablility. American build quality its 50% better then euro so take your head out of your ***. I looked at used audis they are over praised for there interior. They need to lay off the spray on rubber materials that coat the hi use areas. GM builds great reliable engines. To say the least with the j-bodys you get what you pay for 13k loaded for a brand new car with a good power train is fine by me. I personally find the late model grand am GT a pretty sexy car. Alote more stylish then any jap car in its class.



A closer inspection reveals nice door and trunk gaps that at least match the quality of a honda in its class. The interior is still cheap but that was then and this is now. The G6 its replacement which has a base price higher then most if not all imports in it class.

The GM 60* V6 series are great engines and have great tq. Detroit is pulling a major turnaround and doing a damn good job. Most of GMs problems are from Unions and overpaying retirees and all other sorts of jive. Financial problems that toyota and other import companys dont have when they build plants here.

B6T

Still can't prove your point about the rotary I see. It's never going to go back into mass production in the auto industry again??? What the hell do you call the RX8? Do you even know what an RX8 is? Wow, you're not ignorant at all.

You're stupid, shut up.

B6T

Uh oh.

StealthZ

#1 - yes, gm is the greatest. why would i take a heap lambo or g35 when i can have my lumina...tool. so far youre sounding pretty ignorant.

#2 - alright, im not gonna argue because it will prove mt conclusion of #1.

#3 - at the end of the day, its still a civic, lmao. hmmm, 11 sec civic, or z06...thats a tough one. the ignorance is getting stronger.

#4 - good for you, your opinion doesnt matter to as much people as you think.

#5 - i pity your parents for having an ingnorant child such as yourself. i bet you get everything you ask for eh. i dont care what car you have, i pity you.

#6 - i know gm's suck, with their hummers and vettes, lemme go out and buy an s2000 with less tq then a probe, now thats a quality car. the ignorance is gettin alot stronger.

#7 - pissy? no. just open minded. you know the saying, "cmon, all the cool kids are doing it." thats pretty much describes honda and how the civic came into the spotlight. theres no point because its a bunch of dudes that quote fast and the furious sayings. "bro ur car sucks, i bet that cai almost blew the welds on ur header, i mean exaust, i mean welds on intake...err...nos, bro u suck."

#8 - wow, you talk about all gm cars, then say watch them defend their cars, ill make you a bet they will. thats like saying watch me take this walking stick away from the blind old lady, ill bet she falls down the stairs.

and with that being said, your ignorance is off the charts...grow up.

StealthZ

guess no import drivers have had experiences with a lemon before eh? or they just dont want to admit it. i think the latter is more true.

dj_jake

i work for a major domestic company, and youre on crack kid.

you named off some small insignificant players in the import game. the big 3 are having some trouble. FORD and GM both have their credit ratings reduced to JUNK and they are loosing money on every quarterly announcement. some market anaylsts are speculating that GM will file for bankruptsy protection within 3 years. i find it unlikely, but it goes to show you, GM is doing right now, and no amount of employee pricing events and insane price mark downs is going to change things soon

lets name, TOYOTA, NISSAN, and HONDA. all three are GAINING market share year over year. toyota is supposed to displace GM as worlds #1 automaker by 2008...

do you know why that is? BECAUSE GM BUILDS JUNK. get into a proper well built import, and if you cant spot the difference, all those years of driving horribly depreciating unreliable, inefficient junk must have damaged your brain. sorry, i might owe domestics something, since they put the food on my table, but i can tell you for a fact, the they push out of the factory is a joke what toyota can do.

DCX is doing the best right now out the big 3, but they are also building the boldest and most desirable vehicles! you can see some decent quality coming out of this company at least, but if you think its anywhere NEAR what toyota/honda produce, you are on crack kid.

displacement on demand is a marketing ploy. if you actually owned one, instead of ran your mouth about them, you would quickly realize they still guzzle gas. most people are lucky to see %10 better mileage with DoD active.

if you didnt live in a trailer park, and got out there to see and feel the difference between a quality vehicle and a junk one, you would understand what im talking about.

GM's pushrod engines are garbage. take a 4dr grand am/g6 with a 60 degree 3.4 or 3.8, and it will move just as fast as a 2.4 accord, and guzzle twice as much gas.
a v6 6spd accord will run side by side with most of the overweight pushrod domestic v8's

theres a reason why DCX is pimping the hemi. its efficient, and the marketing value is priceless. every other motor they stick in the LX cars (300/magnum/charger) is over head cam.

only reason GM is still stuck on using pushrod v6's is because they are CHEAP AND COMPACT in relation to a DOHC equivalents. GM is loosing money out of their ***, they cant afford to turn their engine lineup upside down.

honda and toyota's 4 and 6 motors are engineered vastly better , much smoother, and significantly superior powerplants to what some of the GM drops in their cars. again, its not something most people would pick up on, unless they study it at depth, know what to look for, or get paid to inspect products on this level.

i have seen and inspected the "quality" that has gone into the new GM cars, g6, cobalts, you name it.
only a domestic fan boy sees these changes and improvements and says "oh yea dude, these things are way up now, right up to import quality"
GM is making much better cars, i wont disagree with you, but they have a way to go before they are up to imports standards.

some damage cant be undone. some people have owned junk GM's all their life. they bought ONE honda, and will never look at another GM again. thats why they are building cars just to fill up parking lots. the new STS was supposed to be the 300C killer, but the sales data showed they couldnt sell even 100 in canada for months, i remember looking at the report late last year.
GM's still have atrocious resale value. you buy a 25k gm sedan, and its worth 5-10k less the instant you bring it home. you buy a brand new accord sedan in automatic, you can trade it in 3 years later, and loose maybe 3-5k.
people were walking into the dealers for years saying "man, in GM is giving me a v6 fully loaded sedan for the price of an import 4cyl, semi loaded, wtf, ill take the GM"
3 years and many problems later, they find out the GM isnt worth a in dime, and realize they might have made a mistake when they see 3 year old imports being resold for slightly less then brand new MSRP of new models
it took some time, but eventually people learned that once they want a new car, their GM is worthless. the extra bit they spent on the import honda/toyota to most people, is a sound investment.
i would rather buy a 15k civic, then a 12k gm. because in 3 years, i will still get 10k + for the civic, while the GM ill be lucky if the dealer sends me home with $4k on the trade in.


analysts predict that even if GM started building a PERFECT product right now, it would take 5 years for the industry to shift accordingly.

i could write you a 10,000 page report why the import industry is making a mess of the domestics, but ill spare you. people like you are doing the domestic companies a favour by staying faithful. for both our sakes, i hope they can improve to make your vehicle ownership as enjoyable as possible. until then, i know what domestics build, and the only ones i would consider is the SRT8 cars from DCX. everything else is junk.

ill stick with my imports for now. thanks.

livinlow

iTrader: (1)

Leave it upto stealthz to prove my point.

I have no ignorance in me,I've owned a GM 90 Z24,I loved that car,Took a beating day in and day out.

Any GM is full of ignorance,A ford or Chysler guy lets things go because their easy going,I;ve yet to see any GM fanatic let anything go,they always have to stick up for GM in some way or another.

Saying a ford probe makes more torque then a S2000 geez let the torque thing go dude,Is that all you have behind you is torque.

The last 2 weeks i've ran into this blue 97 probe GT everytime i goto tacobell after work,Each time he wants to race me,He tries to go me at a light,He takes off 1st thru 2 second he has me by 4 cars,once i shift into 3rd i'm instantly passing him and i keep going till i reach taco bell at the next 2 lights and away he goes,This has happend twice and i know i'll end up having to own him again.

BTW an S2000 will own my in *** in any gear i wouldn't even apptempt to race one,So what was you're point with that,torque doesn't mean without proper gearing which HONDA yes HONDA focus's on with all their cars.

END.

mazdaspeed

anyone ever read consumer's reports or lemonade. they both seem to be a pretty relaible source for information on cars complete ratings( not just who can go the fastest in a straight line). my dad works at GM and of course thinks they are the best ever, even though they make junk. I love the rebadged DAEWOO"S/chev optra now thats quality.

Nastyzed

[QUOTE=dj_jake]i work for a major domestic company, and youre on crack kid.

lets name, TOYOTA, NISSAN, and HONDA. all three are GAINING market share year over year. toyota is supposed to displace GM as worlds #1 automaker by 2008...

Really? my best friend works at classic honda and they are haveing all sorts of problems with new hondas. They are overrated and rot after 5 canuk winters.. Toyota has done well no comment there but they sure as hell have nothing for style. NISSAN???? your kidding LOL alote OF nissan products are among the least reliable. I know my mom had a maxima it was no less then $800 everytime that heap went to the garage. Probibly why she stopped listening to magazines and went out and bought a 04' grand prix GT with no problems to date.



"do you know why that is? BECAUSE GM BUILDS JUNK. get into a proper well built import, and if you cant spot the difference, all those years of driving horribly depreciating unreliable, inefficient junk must have damaged your brain. sorry, i might owe domestics something, since they put the food on my table, but i can tell you for a fact, the they push out of the factory is a joke what toyota can do."

GM builds junk? were are all the import cars from the 70s and 80s? all rotted away funny even after all these years honda still can't learn how to attach a rear bumper on a accord. SAD really. You have never owned a domestic so you dont know what your talking about. Ever since import plants came here there reliablility rateings have also crashed. Somthing to so with factory workers I guess.... I'll be laughing if GM goes down and your out of a job yes buddy back to the grocery store for you because no company will pay you what GM does nor will you find the benefits. BACK UP YOUR arguments with facts I have driven GM products for years I know them inside out and I know there bad points and reliabilty is not a issue for the GM products I drive or have driven. BTW pm me your name and the plant you work. I have a good friend who works at GM in the shwa you may know him.



"DCX is doing the best right now out the big 3, but they are also building the boldest and most desirable vehicles! you can see some decent quality coming out of this company at least, but if you think its anywhere NEAR what toyota/honda produce, you are on crack kid."

DCX is not part of the "big 3" the big 3 died when toyota overtook ford a few years back. DCX for the most part is produceing better products then honda or toyota and are getting the profits to prove it. They have style , class and enginuity.





"displacement on demand is a marketing ploy. if you actually owned one, instead of ran your mouth about them, you would quickly realize they still guzzle gas. most people are lucky to see %10 better mileage with DoD active."

Abviously GAS is a large issue for you you dont buy a V8 and expect top notch 4cyl gas mileage. GAS prices are not a issue for me , i can afford to fuel a V8 and pay the morgage. No i dont work as a over payed employee at a car plant either.In some cases a V8 will beat a small engine in MPG on the highway.



"if you didnt live in a trailer park, and got out there to see and feel the difference between a quality vehicle and a junk one, you would understand what im talking about."

Had your *** kicked by rednecks much? I don't live a trailer park so I can't help you there. I know the difference between junk and a quality vehicle thats why a chose a new impala SS. A quality well built domestic vehicle and the money i spend goes back into my nation.



"GM's pushrod engines are garbage. take a 4dr grand am/g6 with a 60 degree 3.4 or 3.8, and it will move just as fast as a 2.4 accord, and guzzle twice as much gas.
a v6 6spd accord will run side by side with most of the overweight pushrod domestic v8's"


That top statement there proves you are a complete moron. State some facts on how one of the most well built and long lasting engines in the world (3800 series) is junk? Your a idoit if people like you work for GM im glad they are closeing some plants LMAO.

1998 accord 2.4

Fuel Type Regular
MPG (city) 24
MPG (highway) 31
MPG (combined) 27

1998 grand am 3.1

Fuel Type Regular
MPG (city) 20
MPG (highway) 29
MPG (combined) 23

Point proven your a total moron with no facts. Yeah buddy thats guzzleing twice as much gas alright ,good one pal.



"theres a reason why DCX is pimping the hemi. its efficient, and the marketing value is priceless. every other motor they stick in the LX cars (300/magnum/charger) is over head cam. "

No argument there. Actually there was a survey awile back and they found most people did care if it was ohv OR DOHC engine under the hood. For a daily driver for the amount i travel I couldent care less. Id rather not change timeing belts every 70k anyway.



"only reason GM is still stuck on using pushrod v6's is because they are CHEAP AND COMPACT in relation to a DOHC equivalents. GM is loosing money out of their ***, they cant afford to turn their engine lineup upside down."

You forgot realiable much much more reliable then a TDC motor. But still GM mass produced them in the early 90s.. the 3.4 dohc to name one.


i have seen and inspected the "quality" that has gone into the new GM cars, g6, cobalts, you name it.
only a domestic fan boy sees these changes and improvements and says "oh yea dude, these things are way up now, right up to import quality"
GM is making much better cars, i wont disagree with you, but they have a way to go before they are up to imports standards.

I guess thats your opinion. Like I said I have actually driven these cars daily. What do you drive?


GM's still have atrocious resale value. you buy a 25k gm sedan, and its worth 5-10k less the instant you bring it home. you buy a brand new accord sedan in automatic, you can trade it in 3 years later, and loose maybe 3-5k.
people were walking into the dealers for years saying "man, in GM is giving me a v6 fully loaded sedan for the price of an import 4cyl, semi loaded, wtf, ill take the GM"
3 years and many problems later, they find out the GM isnt worth a in dime, and realize they might have made a mistake when they see 3 year old imports being resold for slightly less then brand new MSRP of new models
it took some time, but eventually people learned that once they want a new car, their GM is worthless. the extra bit they spent on the import honda/toyota to most people, is a sound investment.
i would rather buy a 15k civic, then a 12k gm. because in 3 years, i will still get 10k + for the civic, while the GM ill be lucky if the dealer sends me home with $4k on the trade in.


Cars in general are not a investment. You sound very angry did GM give you a big lay off notice or something? lol god i love getting a rise out of people.. The main thing being who cares about resale value on a sedan? probibly because people dont keep import sedans long enough to find out. I drive my cars well into the 300,000km mark before i get rid of them. not everybody likes the looks of imports so they dont buy them. I can relate most of what honda and toyota puts out is ugly as . Also last time I checked the camry or accord wasent optioned with a supercharger or a V8.


analysts predict that even if GM started building a PERFECT product right now, it would take 5 years for the industry to shift accordingly.

Was that you who predicted that?

i could write you a 10,000 page report why the import industry is making a mess of the domestics, but ill spare you. people like you are doing the domestic companies a favour by staying faithful. for both our sakes, i hope they can improve to make your vehicle ownership as enjoyable as possible. until then, i know what domestics build, and the only ones i would consider is the SRT8 cars from DCX. everything else is junk.

Im sure you could. My veichle ownership is just fine i like my car thanks. Be sure to say hello to bob lutz and tell him how much im enjoying my new impala SS Your abviously working for the wrong company.. You could always apply at honda in alliston. I think you should it would be the smart thing to do considering your not going to have a job soon. But i dont think toyota or honda will hire you anyways seeing as how you worked for GM and all they build is junk (reflects on whos working for them)


cheers buddy

dj_jake

actually, i work for DCX. why are you comparing 98 accord ?

newest 2.4 accord vs newest 3.4 gm.
the cars move just as quick, but the accord does much better on gas, smoother, and quieter.

im glad you like your front wheel drive underachieving impala. for 30k or whatever you paid, you got a lot of car.
i never claimed automobiles were an investment, but an intelligent consumer should be contentious of the fact that vehicles have varying depreciation rates. unless you plan on keeping your car for 10 years or longer, its something that should be a strong factor in your decision process. many consumers trade up every 3 years, therefore resale is important.

regardless, i dont expect you to understand these concepts. if youre a GM fanboy, thats all that matters. glad people like you are still out there keeping them running

oh and stop bringing imports from the 70's, 80's and 90's up. honda/toyota are at their peak now. compare current import lineup to the domestic please. and nissan, despite being part of the other big 3, imo, is not very good in terms of reliability and refinement in many of their models.