gldwngr

Ever think that the Honda may have applied the brakes before impact, bringing an orginal running speed of 150 kmph down to maybe 100-110-120 before actual impact?

gldwngr

We're not looking at at "who-done-it" where there are no witnesses, no smoking gun, but just a body of unknown name. The statements by Mitchell are reasonable speculation based on an abundance of on-scene evidence and eye-witnesses, quite possibly including even the statement of the "racer" not directly involved in the collision.

The police are certainly entitled to take their investigation where the evidence (in this case plenty) leads. They are quite entitled to issue statements to the media based on their preliminary analysis of the evidence.

As you say, you can "prove" any argument by the selective reference to evidence, but isn't that what you're doing right now in defence of your friend?

Whether the evidence sticks or not will happen at trial where a judge or jury will decide. There the Crown will present the evidence collected by police, and the defence will have full opportunity to rebut that evidence. It will be up to the defence to ensure that evidence in favour of their clients is properly brought forward, and evidence against their clients is challenged.

un4givn

Given the timing of such a collision, the moments that the Honda driver would have been given (not knowing the Hyundai was going to turn out), I'd say there was little if any time at all for him to react and hit the brakes.

Unless you're suggesting that the Hyundai was parked across the lanes?

Seriously. Next time you're out driving.... count in your head how long it takes you to casually turn left across an intersection. We're talking about two or three seconds. Not 30 seconds. Not a minute. And that two to three seconds is to clear the entire intersection. Not get hit halfway through. I'd figure there was maybe a half to a full second's 'warning' for the honda driver to realize that there's a car in his path. Not a significant amount of time to do anything evasive.

Here's a couple of links to support this 'theory':

Reaction Times Explained (includes some formulae and examples on reaction times) Notice with this link, it also mentions that night time reactions are often slowed by 1/40th-1/50th of a second.

Reaction Simulator (scroll down a bit)

-scottyp

6Msentra

odds are that didnt happen, in the time it takes a car to slow from 150km/hr to 100km/h the left turner would have cleared the path of the braking vehicle. the more likely event would have the hyundai turning with the honda 100-150ft from intersection and the honda travelling between 100-120km/h (you see? i can pull things out of thin air as well, and make my own speculative opinions...).
it takes about 3 seconds to clear a 2 lane left turn so if the civic had been travelling 150km/h he would have been 340ft away if he was in the right lane (2.5 seconds for an impact... 3 seconds for no impact).
now with a vehicle only 340ft away, and covering 136ft per second... you are going to notice... unless you have had a couple of drinks and are laughing about the stories you have told. you are going to speed up to make the turn in 2 seconds instead of the slow 3.
now in the 2 seconds it takes to slow from 150-110, the hyundai has safely completed its turn....

un4givn

Well argued.

6Msentra

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...d=970599119419


HEY at least it seems like some respected media types arent licking the ***** of the reactionists!!
lets look at this for what it actually is.

X_LUDWIK_X

Good find!

gldwngr

We don't know, do we? We don't know the exact speed at impact. We don't know the precise locations of other traffic. We don't know if the Honda was "driving "in the clear" or if the Honda had darted out from behind another car immediately prior to impact, perhaps as part of weaving through slower traffic, which would also support a dangerous driving and/or criminal negligence charge.

Wait for trial, then attend if you want to see the evidence.

.

lancer9225

You might call me a reactionist, so what . Look at the pictures of that accident and the picture of that little girl at their funerals. Maybe your right , the two hondas were not racing or doing the speed that is claimed. I understand your mad about the allegations made about racing. They are justifed, but you cannot tell me the two cars werent speeding through that intersection. And the cops must have enough evidence to lay the charges that are pending against them. Im trying to look at your side of things, maybe you should look at the other side too,. thats all

un4givn

Unfortunately I think the publication ban covers any announcement of court dates. Just to clarify, Ruben is a friend of a friend. I don't know him personally, though he has yet to be charged (to my knowledge). If anyone knows Marco and has information as to when court dates are coming up, I would like to hear from them.

But, you have to admit that there are A LOT of questions that will be answered during the trial, and the result of which will be relegated to page 42 of the Toronto Sun buried amongst the other side-bars.

gldwngr

The publication ban is with respect to evidence surrounding the matter. Publication bans never restrict annnouncement of trial dates.

6Msentra

i have looked at the other side... i'm merely playing devil's advocate in order to properly represent "the other side" of all of this.
the media hype surrounding this crash is being fed by the police to scare the public into allowing them to illegally search and stop "modified" cars without repercussions. that bothers me as an enthusiast.. i modify my car to work better on a road course, yet i will be viewed as being just like the **** that raced on a road with innocent drivers/public around, get stopped by the police while driving within the law for no reason, and possibly ticketed for having a "modified" car that is dynamically and passively safer than 90% of the cars on the road today, and driven by a driver who is far better at driving, and more attentive than the cops that pulled him over.

i think jim kenzie nailed it on the head, call this a stupid crash, by stupid people, charge them, convict them, but dont sensationalize it when it is in fact no more sensational than the average idiot that rolls their SUV on the 401 because they are talking on their cell phone while eating a burger.... because that happens far more often.

we unfortunately may never know what (if any) the blood alcohol level of the victims are, because they are being viewed as "victims" because if the apparent zeal by the police in making this a "street racing" death to pad their stats... which is unfortunate...

i wonder if they were over .08 would the fault revert back to them? (even though i would still consider the fault for the crash theirs anyways based on the opinions i have already stated)

birdie92k

iTrader: (1)

Well there's so much that can be said and speculated about this accident but the fact remains that extremely high speed was a factor, and I witnessed a crash back home at approx. 170km/h (no one survived) and those cars were like crushed pop cans almost. Personally if my parents were robbed of life because of 2 people speeding (don't give a ****) whether they were racing or not, I'd want to kill them if they weren't already dead, and that's harsh but I'm sure the first angry reaction people feel in those cases after reaching adulthood. Imagine how that girl's life changes? She wakes up in the morning and it's not mom waking her up, when she goes to bed she'll be crying herself to sleep night in and night out because mom or dad isn't there to tuck her in.
It really only takes a microsecond for conditions to change when driving sometimes and it can be fatal if you're driving wrecklessly. Now if it wasn't as bad as it can get, any hint of a modified civic going over a speed limit is probably gonna get a ticket by the pissed off cops, regardless of whether or not others are doing it and 90% of drivers go about 10-20 over depending on highway driving or not.

All I know is this incident was a tragedy that could have been prevented but life will go on, politicians will get their hands dirty and their pockets a bit bigger, people will continue to speed and more modded cars are gonna get tickets/fines/suspensions.

P.S. Anyone for the idea of holding like a civic(or any car) memorial drive/ fund raiser for the girl?? Just putting it out there cuz I'd be up for that, and show the other side of civic drivers, modded or stock.

un4givn

Good idea.

You might want to start polling the other boards and see if you can get something organized.

2TONE_93GT

iTrader: (3)

Call the O.P.P. and make sure to let them know. Nothing good will come of it.