100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
07-22-2007, 03:35 AM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:5gn5a39fglhmuep94hvr40no7e4sidmre8@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 23:00:09 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
> <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>
>>"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:09g8n4-ao1.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
>>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>>> These sensationalist articles don't help, either. This subject was
>>>> kicked
>>>> around in the Yahoo! Toyota-Prius forum a couple months ago and the big
>>>> hitch was the amount of power required to do a ten minute charge. IIRC
>>>> it
>>>> was around 250kW - in a league with entire shopping malls and colleges.
>>>
>>> Actually, that doesn't sound that unreasonable. 250 KW for ten minutes
>>> is
>>> 41.7 KWH, about $5 worth of electricity.
>>>
>>All we have to do is upgrade our homes' electric service to 1000A and we
>>will be in great shape!
>
> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
> worth of gasoline.
What? Your house doesn't have 1000 Amp. service? I thought that was the bare
minimum. ROFL!!!! Seriously, most houses up here have either 100 or 200 amp
service. Back in the 50's, 75 amp was the norm.
07-22-2007, 10:26 AM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>worth of gasoline.
And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
out of that problem)
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>worth of gasoline.
And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
out of that problem)
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
07-22-2007, 10:26 AM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>worth of gasoline.
And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
out of that problem)
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>worth of gasoline.
And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
out of that problem)
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
07-22-2007, 10:26 AM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>worth of gasoline.
And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
out of that problem)
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>worth of gasoline.
And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
out of that problem)
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
07-22-2007, 10:46 AM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
SnoMan wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
> <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>> worth of gasoline.
>
> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
> or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
> 60% of the energy in gas
indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff"
lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature
differences,
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html
but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they
teach at law schools.
> and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
> out of that problem)
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
> <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>> worth of gasoline.
>
> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
> or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
> 60% of the energy in gas
indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff"
lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature
differences,
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html
but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they
teach at law schools.
> and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
> out of that problem)
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com
07-22-2007, 10:46 AM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
SnoMan wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
> <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>> worth of gasoline.
>
> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
> or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
> 60% of the energy in gas
indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff"
lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature
differences,
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html
but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they
teach at law schools.
> and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
> out of that problem)
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
> <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>> worth of gasoline.
>
> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
> or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
> 60% of the energy in gas
indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff"
lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature
differences,
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html
but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they
teach at law schools.
> and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
> out of that problem)
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com
07-22-2007, 10:46 AM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
SnoMan wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
> <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>> worth of gasoline.
>
> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
> or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
> 60% of the energy in gas
indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff"
lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature
differences,
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html
but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they
teach at law schools.
> and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
> out of that problem)
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
> <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>> worth of gasoline.
>
> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
> or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
> 60% of the energy in gas
indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff"
lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature
differences,
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html
but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they
teach at law schools.
> and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
> out of that problem)
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com
07-22-2007, 11:33 AM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:26:04 GMT, SnoMan <admin@snoman.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>>worth of gasoline.
>
>And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
>What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
>or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
>that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
>car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
>KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
>need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
>with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
>much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
>because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
>of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
>charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
>more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
>will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
>and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
>it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
>going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
>that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
>kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
>because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
>in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
>our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
>60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
>even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
>only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
>about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
>out of that problem)
>-----------------
>TheSnoMan.com
Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon
of ethanol than that gallon contains. You have to consider all inputs
needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer
(from natural gas), fuel used by the tractor that pulls the planter,
fuel used by the combine that harvests the corn, fuel used by the
trucks to transport the corn, heat used to sterilize the mash, heat
used to distill the ethanol, fuel used to transport the ethanol. In
short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of
ethanol.
Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in
price.
Jack
---
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Virus Database (VPS): 000758-3, 07/22/2007
Tested on: 7/22/2007 11:33:27 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com
>On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>>worth of gasoline.
>
>And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
>What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
>or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
>that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
>car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
>KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
>need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
>with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
>much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
>because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
>of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
>charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
>more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
>will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
>and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
>it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
>going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
>that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
>kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
>because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
>in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
>our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
>60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
>even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
>only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
>about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
>out of that problem)
>-----------------
>TheSnoMan.com
Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon
of ethanol than that gallon contains. You have to consider all inputs
needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer
(from natural gas), fuel used by the tractor that pulls the planter,
fuel used by the combine that harvests the corn, fuel used by the
trucks to transport the corn, heat used to sterilize the mash, heat
used to distill the ethanol, fuel used to transport the ethanol. In
short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of
ethanol.
Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in
price.
Jack
---
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Tested on: 7/22/2007 11:33:27 AM
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http://www.avast.com
07-22-2007, 11:33 AM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:26:04 GMT, SnoMan <admin@snoman.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>>worth of gasoline.
>
>And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
>What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
>or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
>that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
>car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
>KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
>need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
>with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
>much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
>because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
>of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
>charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
>more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
>will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
>and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
>it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
>going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
>that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
>kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
>because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
>in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
>our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
>60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
>even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
>only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
>about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
>out of that problem)
>-----------------
>TheSnoMan.com
Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon
of ethanol than that gallon contains. You have to consider all inputs
needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer
(from natural gas), fuel used by the tractor that pulls the planter,
fuel used by the combine that harvests the corn, fuel used by the
trucks to transport the corn, heat used to sterilize the mash, heat
used to distill the ethanol, fuel used to transport the ethanol. In
short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of
ethanol.
Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in
price.
Jack
---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000758-3, 07/22/2007
Tested on: 7/22/2007 11:33:27 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com
>On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>>worth of gasoline.
>
>And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
>What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
>or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
>that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
>car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
>KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
>need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
>with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
>much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
>because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
>of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
>charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
>more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
>will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
>and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
>it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
>going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
>that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
>kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
>because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
>in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
>our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
>60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
>even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
>only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
>about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
>out of that problem)
>-----------------
>TheSnoMan.com
Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon
of ethanol than that gallon contains. You have to consider all inputs
needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer
(from natural gas), fuel used by the tractor that pulls the planter,
fuel used by the combine that harvests the corn, fuel used by the
trucks to transport the corn, heat used to sterilize the mash, heat
used to distill the ethanol, fuel used to transport the ethanol. In
short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of
ethanol.
Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in
price.
Jack
---
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07-22-2007, 11:33 AM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:26:04 GMT, SnoMan <admin@snoman.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>>worth of gasoline.
>
>And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
>What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
>or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
>that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
>car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
>KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
>need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
>with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
>much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
>because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
>of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
>charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
>more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
>will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
>and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
>it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
>going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
>that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
>kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
>because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
>in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
>our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
>60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
>even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
>only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
>about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
>out of that problem)
>-----------------
>TheSnoMan.com
Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon
of ethanol than that gallon contains. You have to consider all inputs
needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer
(from natural gas), fuel used by the tractor that pulls the planter,
fuel used by the combine that harvests the corn, fuel used by the
trucks to transport the corn, heat used to sterilize the mash, heat
used to distill the ethanol, fuel used to transport the ethanol. In
short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of
ethanol.
Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in
price.
Jack
---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
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Tested on: 7/22/2007 11:33:27 AM
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http://www.avast.com
>On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>>run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>>charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>>wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>>service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>>worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>>profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>>up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>>worth of gasoline.
>
>And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
>What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
>or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
>that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
>car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
>KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
>need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
>with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
>much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
>because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
>of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
>charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
>more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
>will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
>and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
>it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
>going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
>that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
>kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
>because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
>in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
>our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
>60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
>even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
>only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
>about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
>out of that problem)
>-----------------
>TheSnoMan.com
Not to mention the fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon
of ethanol than that gallon contains. You have to consider all inputs
needed to produce that gallon when computing the cost, fertilizer
(from natural gas), fuel used by the tractor that pulls the planter,
fuel used by the combine that harvests the corn, fuel used by the
trucks to transport the corn, heat used to sterilize the mash, heat
used to distill the ethanol, fuel used to transport the ethanol. In
short, it cost about 1 1/2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of
ethanol.
Not to mention the fact that my breakfast corn flakes will triple in
price.
Jack
---
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Tested on: 7/22/2007 11:33:27 AM
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07-22-2007, 03:39 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:iIOdnWiF5sN88D7bnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> SnoMan wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
>> <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>>> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>>> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>>> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>>> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>>> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>>> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>>> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>>> worth of gasoline.
>>
>> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
>> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
>> or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
>> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
>> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
>> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
>> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
>> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
>> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
>> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
>> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
>> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
>> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
>> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
>> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
>> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
>> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
>> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
>> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
>> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
>> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
>> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
>> 60% of the energy in gas
>
> indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff"
> lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature
> differences,
>
> http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html
>
> but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they teach
> at law schools.
Law school 401:
How to your client in the *** so bad they need a colostomy.
Law school 402:
How to the above, with legal impunity.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
>
>
>> and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
>> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
>> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
>> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
>> out of that problem)
>> -----------------
>> TheSnoMan.com
07-22-2007, 03:39 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:iIOdnWiF5sN88D7bnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> SnoMan wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
>> <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>>> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>>> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>>> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>>> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>>> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>>> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>>> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>>> worth of gasoline.
>>
>> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
>> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
>> or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
>> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
>> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
>> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
>> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
>> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
>> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
>> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
>> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
>> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
>> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
>> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
>> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
>> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
>> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
>> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
>> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
>> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
>> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
>> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
>> 60% of the energy in gas
>
> indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff"
> lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature
> differences,
>
> http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html
>
> but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they teach
> at law schools.
Law school 401:
How to your client in the *** so bad they need a colostomy.
Law school 402:
How to the above, with legal impunity.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
>
>
>> and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
>> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
>> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
>> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
>> out of that problem)
>> -----------------
>> TheSnoMan.com
07-22-2007, 03:39 PM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:iIOdnWiF5sN88D7bnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> SnoMan wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:42:42 -0500, Gordon McGrew
>> <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, you will need more than 2000A and even more if you want to
>>> run your refrigerator at the same time. Of course the 10 minute
>>> charge sounds more like a "gas station" mode. If the "gas station"
>>> wants to charge three of these vehicles at once, it will need 6000+A
>>> service. Figure they will charge you about at least $15 for that $5
>>> worth of electricity to pay for the infrastructure and provide a
>>> profit. The real question is, how far can you drive on that $15 fill
>>> up? I would be surprised if it is any farther than you can get on $15
>>> worth of gasoline.
>>
>> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
>> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
>> or just under 40KW. A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
>> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
>> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
>> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
>> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
>> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
>> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
>> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
>> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
>> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
>> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
>> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
>> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
>> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
>> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
>> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
>> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
>> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
>> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
>> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
>> 60% of the energy in gas
>
> indeed. i find it amazing that lawyers are happy to bring "ripoff"
> lawsuits for real, but nevertheless minor, issues like gas temperature
> differences,
>
> http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0.../hot_fuel.html
>
> but ignore the HUGE ripoff of ethanol!!! makes you wonder what they teach
> at law schools.
Law school 401:
How to your client in the *** so bad they need a colostomy.
Law school 402:
How to the above, with legal impunity.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
>
>
>> and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
>> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
>> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
>> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
>> out of that problem)
>> -----------------
>> TheSnoMan.com
07-22-2007, 04:13 PM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
SnoMan wrote:
<...>
> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
> or just under 40KW.
Those are units of power, not energy. Power is energy divided by time.
Get your units right.
A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
> 60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
> out of that problem)
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com
<...>
> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
> or just under 40KW.
Those are units of power, not energy. Power is energy divided by time.
Get your units right.
A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
> 60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
> out of that problem)
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com
07-22-2007, 04:13 PM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 100% Electric SUV From Phoenix Motorcars Recharges In 10 Minutes
SnoMan wrote:
<...>
> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
> or just under 40KW.
Those are units of power, not energy. Power is energy divided by time.
Get your units right.
A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
> 60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
> out of that problem)
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com
<...>
> And how about the power grid in neighborhood to feed this service???
> What many do not realize is that a gallon of gas has about 50 HP in it
> or just under 40KW.
Those are units of power, not energy. Power is energy divided by time.
Get your units right.
A car is about 30% efficent (give or take) meaning
> that about 13 KW from every gallon is convertered to motion. If your
> car uses 5 gallons to go 100 miles that mean you have "used about 75
> KW on energy at the ground. A eletric car is about 80% efficent so you
> need to store about 95KW in same vehicle to get same range. Problem
> with that is two fold. First it takes a LOT of battery to store that
> much energy which adds a lot of weight and then there is charging it
> because charging is not 100% efficent either. Figure on 120 to 130KW
> of energy being used to charge a 95K pack (losses in batteries and
> charger) so 120KW a t 10 cents a KW (though many places charge even
> more) is 12 bucks verse about 15 for gas and not worth it. Also range
> will decrease in winter because waste heat from a gas motor heats car
> and figure on 3 to 6KW or more per hour to heat car. Then to charge
> it with 100 amp service and running nothing esle in your house it is
> going to take about 6 hours to charge minimum. People want to beleive
> that there is this great splution out there and that a car is being
> kept from them that they can simply plug into a wall socket and dirve
> because they have no concept of the energy needed or the amount of it
> in one gallon of gas. Just like they want you to beleive we can grow
> our way out of gas problems with grain alchol even though it has only
> 60% of the energy in gas and increases CO2 emissions by 50% too. Plus
> even if all the grain/corn crop in use was turned to fuel it would
> only make about 1/3 of daily needs with none left for food. (we use
> about 800,000,000 gallons of fuel a day and you cannot grow your way
> out of that problem)
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com