1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

Awesome help so far. What I have found was that two of the more
common problems were at fault.

#1 The EFI Main Relay (RV0028 I believe) did have cracks around one of
the soldered posts. When I fixed this I gained all the proper clicks
at all the proper times, HOWEVER the fuel pump did not hum as it
should.

#2 When I inspected the fuel pump I found that it was receiving power
but not coming on. I replaced the fuel pump and the car started
immediately.

VOILA! you say? Well kind of. I am still ignorant as to proper
cylinder numbering as I am too tired to look it up this evening. BUT
the cylinder far opposite the distributor cap is missing for some
reason. I KNOW it is receiving spark and has a good plug because I
replaced the plug and got the snot shocked out of me when my
enthusiastic son turned the ignition on too soon. When I disconnect
the wire to that plug the engine runs the same as when connected (new
wires as of today btw). Also when I disconnect the harness from the
injector the engine idle remains the same (rough, miss, etc...) The
car seems to run up and down the road fine, but that last cylinder on
the right is just not firing, or not firing enough for it's absence to
make a difference. I used my stethoscope and all four injectors are
clicking right along.

What should I look for now? Timing? Valves? Could the injector click
and still be bad? I used a light to test the injector harness and I
know it is receiving signal. Please point me in the right direction.

Many thanks for your help so far.

Peace!
Jack

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

In article
<7ad6b2a9-673f-4bca-8732-f7c5c35690b4@v38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Awesome help so far. What I have found was that two of the more
> common problems were at fault.
>
> #1 The EFI Main Relay (RV0028 I believe) did have cracks around one of
> the soldered posts. When I fixed this I gained all the proper clicks
> at all the proper times, HOWEVER the fuel pump did not hum as it
> should.
>
> #2 When I inspected the fuel pump I found that it was receiving power
> but not coming on. I replaced the fuel pump and the car started
> immediately.
>
> VOILA! you say? Well kind of. I am still ignorant as to proper
> cylinder numbering as I am too tired to look it up this evening. BUT
> the cylinder far opposite the distributor cap is missing for some
> reason. I KNOW it is receiving spark and has a good plug because I
> replaced the plug and got the snot shocked out of me when my
> enthusiastic son turned the ignition on too soon. When I disconnect
> the wire to that plug the engine runs the same as when connected (new
> wires as of today btw). Also when I disconnect the harness from the
> injector the engine idle remains the same (rough, miss, etc...) The
> car seems to run up and down the road fine, but that last cylinder on
> the right is just not firing, or not firing enough for it's absence to
> make a difference. I used my stethoscope and all four injectors are
> clicking right along.
>
> What should I look for now? Timing? Valves? Could the injector click
> and still be bad? I used a light to test the injector harness and I
> know it is receiving signal. Please point me in the right direction.
>
> Many thanks for your help so far.
>
> Peace!
> Jack

Just for snorts and giggles, try swapping the bad cylinder spark plug
with one of the good ones, and see if the problem moves along with it.

Always check the simple stuff first...

Good Luck!

Erik

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7ad6b2a9-673f-4bca-8732-f7c5c35690b4@v38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> Awesome help so far. What I have found was that two of the more
> common problems were at fault.
>
> #1 The EFI Main Relay (RV0028 I believe) did have cracks around one of
> the soldered posts. When I fixed this I gained all the proper clicks
> at all the proper times, HOWEVER the fuel pump did not hum as it
> should.
>
> #2 When I inspected the fuel pump I found that it was receiving power
> but not coming on. I replaced the fuel pump and the car started
> immediately.
>
> VOILA! you say? Well kind of. I am still ignorant as to proper
> cylinder numbering as I am too tired to look it up this evening. BUT
> the cylinder far opposite the distributor cap is missing for some
> reason. I KNOW it is receiving spark and has a good plug because I
> replaced the plug and got the snot shocked out of me when my
> enthusiastic son turned the ignition on too soon. When I disconnect
> the wire to that plug the engine runs the same as when connected (new
> wires as of today btw). Also when I disconnect the harness from the
> injector the engine idle remains the same (rough, miss, etc...) The
> car seems to run up and down the road fine, but that last cylinder on
> the right is just not firing, or not firing enough for it's absence to
> make a difference. I used my stethoscope and all four injectors are
> clicking right along.
>
> What should I look for now? Timing? Valves? Could the injector click
> and still be bad? I used a light to test the injector harness and I
> know it is receiving signal. Please point me in the right direction.
>
> Many thanks for your help so far.
>
> Peace!
> Jack
>

My guess would be a fouled injector, since the car has been unused a little
while. It would still click but not deliver the right amount of fuel.

The valves and anything else that would affect the "compression" part of the
engine operation formula (compression, fuel, ignition) is best tested with a
compression check. There is always a chance one of the valves is stuck open
and needs to be freed up. The Honda engines are not usually known for that,
though. Anyway, it is the part of the formula that has a definitive test -
the rest have "by the way"s.

Mike

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

I would also remove the front driver's side wheel, put the
front driver's side on a jackstand, remove the valve cover,
manually rotate (COUNTERclockwise, or you will lose timing
belt tension) the crankshaft, and watch the springs on the
suspect cylinder's valves. If any one spring is not moving
or is moving oddly, then you have made progress on your
diagnosis. Figure stuck valve or bent valve.

A picture of a valve that stuck from gunk buildup and some
chatter on this:

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1806140

In the vein of keeping it simple, also try putting a bottle
of Chevron Techron (fuel system cleaner; available at
Autozone, WalMart, et al.) in the Accord's fuel tank next
time you fill it (per the bottle's directions). Run the
Accord to empty. Repeat. Not that this is going to clean up
crud on a stuck valve, but it might help.

Have you checked the timing?

I wonder whether an Italian tuneup would help here. It heats
the engine and has the RPM high. Put the Chevron Techron in
the tank. Drive the car up the steepest, longest hill you
can find at the highest speed allowed. Repeat a few times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_tuneup .
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...p/t-32202.html

Ditto what Erik and Michael said.

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

On Dec 14, 3:15 am, Erik <e...@spam.this> wrote:
> In article
> <7ad6b2a9-673f-4bca-8732-f7c5c3569...@v38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Awesome help so far. What I have found was that two of the more
> > common problems were at fault.
>
> > #1 The EFI Main Relay (RV0028 I believe) did have cracks around one of
> > the soldered posts. When I fixed this I gained all the proper clicks
> > at all the proper times, HOWEVER the fuel pump did not hum as it
> > should.
>
> > #2 When I inspected the fuel pump I found that it was receiving power
> > but not coming on. I replaced the fuel pump and the car started
> > immediately.
>
> > VOILA! you say? Well kind of. I am still ignorant as to proper
> > cylinder numbering as I am too tired to look it up this evening. BUT
> > the cylinder far opposite the distributor cap is missing for some
> > reason. I KNOW it is receiving spark and has a good plug because I
> > replaced the plug and got the snot shocked out of me when my
> > enthusiastic son turned the ignition on too soon. When I disconnect
> > the wire to that plug the engine runs the same as when connected (new
> > wires as of today btw). Also when I disconnect the harness from the
> > injector the engine idle remains the same (rough, miss, etc...) The
> > car seems to run up and down the road fine, but that last cylinder on
> > the right is just not firing, or not firing enough for it's absence to
> > make a difference. I used my stethoscope and all four injectors are
> > clicking right along.
>
> > What should I look for now? Timing? Valves? Could the injector click
> > and still be bad? I used a light to test the injector harness and I
> > know it is receiving signal. Please point me in the right direction.
>
> > Many thanks for your help so far.
>
> > Peace!
> > Jack
>
> Just for snorts and giggles, try swapping the bad cylinder spark plug
> with one of the good ones, and see if the problem moves along with it.
>
> Always check the simple stuff first...
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Erik

I put a brand new plug into that cylinder right at the parts place and
it did not affect the problem at all. That was the first place I
thought to look because simple is usually the answer, usually. I'm
still hoping for simple some place else. That was also why I replaced
the wires right then and there too.

Does anyone happen to have a firing diagram from distributor to
cylinder for this car? Thanks

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote
> Does anyone happen to have a firing diagram
> from distributor to cylinder for this car?

http://www.autozone.com/shopping/rep...00c1528005f3a5
(scroll down to see your Accord's diagram)

The shop manual linked at
http://ww1.honda.co.uk/car/owner/workshop.html may also be
helpful.

Using Yahoo to search the site honda-tech.com turns up a lot
of discussion on stuck valves in older engines.

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

In article
<4ed85800-4137-4033-ada3-740f07f48e16@f11g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Dec 14, 3:15 am, Erik <e...@spam.this> wrote:
> > In article
> > <7ad6b2a9-673f-4bca-8732-f7c5c3569...@v38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> > jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Awesome help so far. What I have found was that two of the more
> > > common problems were at fault.
> >
> > > #1 The EFI Main Relay (RV0028 I believe) did have cracks around one of
> > > the soldered posts. When I fixed this I gained all the proper clicks
> > > at all the proper times, HOWEVER the fuel pump did not hum as it
> > > should.
> >
> > > #2 When I inspected the fuel pump I found that it was receiving power
> > > but not coming on. I replaced the fuel pump and the car started
> > > immediately.
> >
> > > VOILA! you say? Well kind of. I am still ignorant as to proper
> > > cylinder numbering as I am too tired to look it up this evening. BUT
> > > the cylinder far opposite the distributor cap is missing for some
> > > reason. I KNOW it is receiving spark and has a good plug because I
> > > replaced the plug and got the snot shocked out of me when my
> > > enthusiastic son turned the ignition on too soon. When I disconnect
> > > the wire to that plug the engine runs the same as when connected (new
> > > wires as of today btw). Also when I disconnect the harness from the
> > > injector the engine idle remains the same (rough, miss, etc...) The
> > > car seems to run up and down the road fine, but that last cylinder on
> > > the right is just not firing, or not firing enough for it's absence to
> > > make a difference. I used my stethoscope and all four injectors are
> > > clicking right along.
> >
> > > What should I look for now? Timing? Valves? Could the injector click
> > > and still be bad? I used a light to test the injector harness and I
> > > know it is receiving signal. Please point me in the right direction.
> >
> > > Many thanks for your help so far.
> >
> > > Peace!
> > > Jack
> >
> > Just for snorts and giggles, try swapping the bad cylinder spark plug
> > with one of the good ones, and see if the problem moves along with it.
> >
> > Always check the simple stuff first...
> >
> > Good Luck!
> >
> > Erik
>
> I put a brand new plug into that cylinder right at the parts place and
> it did not affect the problem at all. That was the first place I
> thought to look because simple is usually the answer, usually. I'm
> still hoping for simple some place else. That was also why I replaced
> the wires right then and there too.
>
> Does anyone happen to have a firing diagram from distributor to
> cylinder for this car? Thanks

I think I'd run a quick compression test next... if it comes out ok,
the injector will need some scrutiny. (The bad cylinder's distributor
cap electrode isn't tracked to ground is it? Look close, both inside and
out.)

If I recall correctly, the distributor can only go in one way on that
engine. Number one cylinder is the the one closest to the crank
pulley... again if I recall correctly, the drivers side.

The firing order is conventional for an inline 4 cylinder: 1 3 4 2. If
your not sure which direction the distributor turns, just eyeball
distributor shaft/rotor with the cap off while an assistant bumps the
starter for you. Don't get shocked...

I suspect you don't have a firing order issue... if you did, I think
you'd probably have two dead cylinders, that is if it ran all.

Erik

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

"Erik" <erik@spam.this> wrote in message
news:erik-A17AB9.07352714122008@news.dslextreme.com...
>
> I suspect you don't have a firing order issue... if you did, I think
> you'd probably have two dead cylinders, that is if it ran all.
>
> Erik
>

I inadvertently swapped a couple wires on a Volvo 4-cyl recently. It didn't
actually start but complained *a lot* when I tried.

Mike

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j391l.18748$R43.9512@newsfe08.iad...
>I would also remove the front driver's side wheel, put the front driver's
>side on a jackstand, remove the valve cover, manually rotate
>(COUNTERclockwise, or you will lose timing belt tension) the crankshaft,
>and watch the springs on the suspect cylinder's valves. If any one spring
>is not moving or is moving oddly, then you have made progress on your
>diagnosis. Figure stuck valve or bent valve.
>
> A picture of a valve that stuck from gunk buildup and some chatter on
> this:
>
> http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1806140
>
> In the vein of keeping it simple, also try putting a bottle of Chevron
> Techron (fuel system cleaner; available at Autozone, WalMart, et al.) in
> the Accord's fuel tank next time you fill it (per the bottle's
> directions). Run the Accord to empty. Repeat. Not that this is going to
> clean up crud on a stuck valve, but it might help.
>
> Have you checked the timing?
>
> I wonder whether an Italian tuneup would help here. It heats the engine
> and has the RPM high. Put the Chevron Techron in the tank. Drive the car
> up the steepest, longest hill you can find at the highest speed allowed.
> Repeat a few times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_tuneup .
> http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...p/t-32202.html
>

In spite of the low tech approach, it is effective - at least according to
the Volvo gurus. The early 850 models were prone to valve sticking because
of excessively tight tolerances. Often the engines would refuse to start.
The solution was to be persistent in order to get it to start, then to warm
up the engine thoroughly and do the "Italian tuneup," spending about five
minutes at 50 mph in second gear. I never heard of it not working.

I have recently changed to using primarily top tier gasoline brands. Some of
the brands (like Conoco here in the Southwest) are as cheap as the
discounters and the advantages in reducing deposits in injectors, valves and
combustion chambers make a small premium worth it to me.

My son has also used Seafoam engine treatment
(http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUp.htm) and has been happy with the
results in terms of drivability. It is available at NAPA. A word of warning,
though - running this stuff through the intake produces enormous amounts of
white smoke for several minutes, even after you stop adding it.

Mike

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

"Michael Pardee" <null@null.org> wrote
Re Italian tuneups--
> In spite of the low tech approach, it is effective - at
> least according to the Volvo gurus.

The only doubt I have is that Tom and Ray of "Car Talk"
recently said carbon buildups just do not occur the way they
used to, because of fuel injection replacing carburetors.

ISTM an Italian Tuneup could not hurt anything, though. I
did one a few months ago on my 91 fuel injected Civic after
it failed NOX emissions. I did several other things,
including a new aftermarket catalytic converter too. One way
or another, it passed the next emissions test easily.

> I have recently changed to using primarily top tier
> gasoline brands. Some of the brands (like Conoco here in
> the Southwest) are as cheap as the discounters and the
> advantages in reducing deposits in injectors, valves and
> combustion chambers make a small premium worth it to me.

I am still on the fence as to whether the premium brands
today make dollars sense. It is said that all the new
gasoline requirements now ensure even the low priced brands
are very clean gas.

> My son has also used Seafoam engine treatment
> (http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUp.htm) and has been
> happy with the results in terms of drivability.

I thought of Sea Foam, too, having seen the (mostly very
young and kind of uh experiment inclined, boy style) people
at honda-tech.com mention it much. But I checked further
today and see many say using Sea Foam is risky. Speaking
only as someone not as experienced as Erik (I think this is
the old Erik with the great posts often) nor Michael, and
based strictly on reading and the word on the streets about
the dubiousness of engine cleaners like Sea Foam, I would
not try the Sea Foam just yet. There is lots that is easier
to eliminate, first, like a stuck or bent valve.

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

In article <NEb1l.9943$297.2467@newsfe23.iad>,
"Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote:

> (I think this is
> the old Erik with the great posts often)

I've been lurking here for years, and may have posted a time or two, but
for the most part I'm a new poster here.

Erik

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

"Erik" <erik@spam.this> wrote
> In article <NEb1l.9943$297.2467@newsfe23.iad>,
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> (I think this is
>> the old Erik with the great posts often)
>
> I've been lurking here for years, and may have posted a
> time or two, but
> for the most part I'm a new poster here.

If it's literally only a time or two, then I beg your
pardon. It's a different Erik. Not to subtract from your
expertise.

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

In article <Srd1l.8802$5P1.4318@newsfe13.iad>,
"Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Erik" <erik@spam.this> wrote
> > In article <NEb1l.9943$297.2467@newsfe23.iad>,
> > "Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> (I think this is
> >> the old Erik with the great posts often)
> >
> > I've been lurking here for years, and may have posted a
> > time or two, but
> > for the most part I'm a new poster here.
>
> If it's literally only a time or two, then I beg your
> pardon. It's a different Erik. Not to subtract from your
> expertise.

Yes, literally only a time or two, sounds like there is/was another
poster named Erik.

Erik

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in news:4ed85800-4137-4033-ada3-
740f07f48e16@f11g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:


>
> I put a brand new plug into that cylinder right at the parts place and
> it did not affect the problem at all. That was the first place I
> thought to look because simple is usually the answer, usually. I'm
> still hoping for simple some place else. That was also why I replaced
> the wires right then and there too.
>
> Does anyone happen to have a firing diagram from distributor to
> cylinder for this car? Thanks



See my reply in your original thread. Why you started a new one is beyond
me.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI 2.0 FI
 

Just an update on about 1000 miles worth of practice driving in the
last week.

The good: The compression is now up over 100psi and staying there
(that's a simple dry test).
The car is driving and handling well. It still has
it's clutch and my son is getting better at shifting gears.
The coolant level has not dropped an iota and there is
no more sign of any kind of coolant coming from the tailpipe.
The oil has not dropped either and has stayed a nice
honey color.
I found a new gas tank level sending unit from a parts
yard and will be installing that as soon as it gets here.
I replaced the power steering fluid with Honda fluid.
Fortunately there does not seem to be any damage from the ATF. Is the
Honda fluid simply Mineral Oil?

The not good: Still when I unplug the wire from plug #1, there is no
change in the idle of the engine, but if I try and run it down the
road with that injector unplugged, it will barely pull a hill.
It's like the cylinder is only dead at idle, but at speed it appears
to work.
The PGMFI light keeps coming on as always.


The ask for help.
So, what do you think? I have put every known home
remedy into Cylinder #1 and have achieved about 30 extra psi, but it
should be a total of 150psi.
I said that I would report back, and so this is it.
Thanks again guys for your help and information. It has been very
instructive.

Peace!
Jack