jack42038

On Jan 7, 10:05 pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:ffbf764c-8cff-4414-968b-
> ec41f5770...@g3g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > The thing that aggravated me (hurt would be a good word too) was the
> > insinuation that someone would "want me out of their shop". That
> > stung.
>
> Ah, I get it now. But you're taking this wrongly. I was sneering at the
> shop, not at you.
>
> What I meant was that this garage is one of those ignorant and sloppy
> outfits: they just want to take your money then shoo you out the door quick
> before you make them spend time that they can't charge for.
>
> If they're putting ATF into a Honda steering system, they very obviously
> have no clue what they're doing and must have lots of comebacks. When you
> questioned them about the ATF, they became afraid you might tell them to
> take it out and put the right stuff in, which would cost them time and
> money, so they just gave you a soothing BS story and pushed you out the
> door. Don't go back there again.
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/

I'm sorry. I took it wrong then. That was on me. Blessings on you
and I will keep the dust.

I haven't taken it personally that the little Honda is not in the best
of shape. That doesn't hurt my feelings a bit. It has been simply a
matter of tuition. My son has learned how to change spark plug wires
and plugs. He has learned how to shift a manual transmission. He has
learned how to set the valve lash and how to replace a valve cover
gasket and what the timing belt is and a good many things that before
he had his own car, he didn't give a darn about. So all in all, I
still think I am ahead. The car does drive fairly well, even with one
weak cylinder. He can use it for a little while until I can find an
engine to replace it. The body is in pretty good condition, the power
steering has recently been flushed and renewed. For a 22yo car, it
wasn't bad for the total of $400 I now have in it.

I won't go back there again.

What do you think I could get an engine for this car for?

Thank You and My Sincerest Apologies for being an ***
Jack

jack42038

Let me run this one past you all.

Has anyone heard that in 1986 the camshafts were improperly ground and
the actual valve lash specs are .20mm IN and .32mm EX?

That is approximately .03mm above the published max specs from the
manual. This comes to me from another web personality who says he
knows this for sure.

My question would be this. If the cam was ground wrong, would that
change the aperture of lash?

As it is, my son and I set the valve lash on a very very cold engine
today and it did indeed cause the whole thing to run smoother,
however, it did not fix the compression problem. I didn't really
expect it to, but the lash was way off and needed setting anyways. I
set it to the top end .17mm and .30mm just in case there was some
truth to the claim.

In testing the compression again after all of this I do note that the
plug is not fouled in any way, it looks to be "cooking" nicely just
like the others. It was shiny around the edge of the point and the
arm was clean.

Thanks
Jack

Michael Pardee

"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ffbf764c-8cff-4414-968b-ec41f5770b80@g3g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> The thing that aggravated me (hurt would be a good word too) was the
> insinuation that someone would "want me out of their shop". That
> stung.

Please don't take that personally. That sentiment - the hope a customer will
just go away - is common throughout the service industry. It is especially
prevalent when a diagnosis is difficult. You will see it very often among
doctors (because they typically get paid by insurance only when they can
fill in a diagnosis on the form) and often enough among mechanics.

When I was a service manager in an avionics shop there were several
customers I hated to see. Some of them were just pains in the butt, but many
others were good people with really sticky problems. In the back, we would
groan when we heard their voices because we knew what was coming... and what
wasn't. We knew there was no more money coming from the customer - he had
paid for what should have been a repair but the problem was being stubborn -
so we were usually doing the work under shop warranty. Besides the financial
side of it was that familiar feeling of hopelessness, the feeling that the
problem was going to keep coming back no matter what we do. Nice guy - bad
radio.

Mike

jim beam

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ffbf764c-8cff-4414-968b-ec41f5770b80@g3g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>> The thing that aggravated me (hurt would be a good word too) was the
>> insinuation that someone would "want me out of their shop". That
>> stung.
>
> Please don't take that personally. That sentiment - the hope a customer will
> just go away - is common throughout the service industry. It is especially
> prevalent when a diagnosis is difficult. You will see it very often among
> doctors (because they typically get paid by insurance only when they can
> fill in a diagnosis on the form) and often enough among mechanics.
>
> When I was a service manager in an avionics shop there were several
> customers I hated to see. Some of them were just pains in the butt, but many
> others were good people with really sticky problems. In the back, we would
> groan when we heard their voices because we knew what was coming... and what
> wasn't. We knew there was no more money coming from the customer - he had
> paid for what should have been a repair but the problem was being stubborn -
> so we were usually doing the work under shop warranty. Besides the financial
> side of it was that familiar feeling of hopelessness, the feeling that the
> problem was going to keep coming back no matter what we do. Nice guy - bad
> radio.
>
> Mike
>
>

been there, done that, and there are some real ******** out there [like
me]. but bad diagnosis is not the customer's fault and letting customer
relations get in the way of resolution is a self-fulfilling nightmare.

unless there is a [genuine, not excuse] design issue, there's always a
way. bad components are the manufacturer's problem. bad diagnosis is
the shop's problem. and as the guy that used to get "the hard ones"
that nobody else could solve, i can say that from experience. and more
to the point, there's almost always someone else that's solved the
problem before who's happy to share the info. male ego means most of us
don't ask enough. and that's dumb. and as this forum shows repeatedly,
5 minutes asking the right person can save countless thousands of
dollars and endless time going right to the solution rather than dicking
about and falling into the "replace stuff and hope" trap.

Dillon Pyron

Thus spake Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> :

>jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in news:36902d42-6392-4066-b0e1-
>81594bc55f06@x38g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>>
>> You know, with the internet being such a wealth of information and a
>> multitude of personalities. I can't imagine why I would ever have the
>> need to ask a question where Tegger might possibly answer me again.
>
>
>
>This is Usenet; a thick skin is a Useful thing on Usenet
>
>You are free to ask inane questions, and I am free to blather on in
>answer to them. You can always killfile me, you know. My handle never
>changes, so I should be easy to filter out.
>
>
>
>>
>> You sir are an ***. You seem to take delight in lording your
>> knowledge over others
>
>
>
>I do?

In fact, you are the least of the many asses I have encountered on
Usenet (I sometimes count myself in the other group). As far as
"loreding your knowledge over others", I have never seen that.

>
>You came here looking for answers and I gave answers as best I could.
>What more do you want?
>
>
>
>
>> and I believe it is unconscionable. Not only my
>> posts, but others as well. I saw one recently where you berated a man
>> for not using OEM parts and when he said he would try to replace them,
>> you made a mockery of his statements.
>
>
>
>Because so many people /do/ make such promises and never follow through,
>to their detriment.
>
>I see an awful lot of problems that were caused by the use of
>aftermarket parts and nothing else. My opinion of most aftermarket is
>very low.
>
>Just the other day there was this guy with sticky brakes. Turned out his
>aftermarket front brake rotors had the wrong "hat" height, so the rotors
>were binding against the pad mount bracket.
>
>
>
>
>> I only came here for
>> information and certainly didn't bring this type of attitude with
>> me.
>
>
>
>I think you've got your nose out of joint because I insulted your wheels
>(and possibly also you're mistakenly thinking the "dummies" comment was
>directed at you).
>
>As far as I'm concerned, an engine that has two-thirds of the minimum
>acceptable compression IS "far gone". And when that engine is in a 22
>year-old car with no value beyond basic transportation, well...

A 22 year old car does have some value. As long as you rebuild the
engine, the suspensiion, the brakes and put a cage in it. The it
becomes a nice SCCA IT car. :-)

>
>
>
>>
>> Blessings on you and here is the dust from my feet.
>
>
>
>I'll take the blessings, thanks. You can keep the dust.
--
- dillon I am not invalid

When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams come true.
Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which
will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no
matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.

Tegger

Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:605cm4pjga3eifm72k6ard8fvcfq3ncivq@4ax.com:

> Thus spake Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> :
>
>>jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in news:36902d42-6392-4066-b0e1-
>>81594bc55f06@x38g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:
..
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> You sir are an ***. You seem to take delight in lording your
>>> knowledge over others
>>
>>
>>
>>I do?
>
> In fact, you are the least of the many asses I have encountered on
> Usenet (I sometimes count myself in the other group). As far as
> "loreding your knowledge over others", I have never seen that.




Why, thank you for your kind comments. And thanks also to Elle for the
same.



>>
>>As far as I'm concerned, an engine that has two-thirds of the minimum
>>acceptable compression IS "far gone". And when that engine is in a 22
>>year-old car with no value beyond basic transportation, well...
>
> A 22 year old car does have some value. As long as you rebuild the
> engine, the suspensiion, the brakes and put a cage in it. The it
> becomes a nice SCCA IT car. :-)
>



A very sensible suggestion indeed. At least a fun one, anyway...


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jack42038

On Jan 8, 8:09 am, jim beam <retard-t...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> Michael Pardee wrote:
> > "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:ffbf764c-8cff-4414-968b-ec41f5770b80@g3g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> >> The thing that aggravated me (hurt would be a good word too) was the
> >> insinuation that someone would "want me out of their shop". That
> >> stung.
>
> > Please don't take that personally. That sentiment - the hope a customerwill
> > just go away - is common throughout the service industry. It is especially
> > prevalent when a diagnosis is difficult. You will see it very often among
> > doctors (because they typically get paid by insurance only when they can
> > fill in a diagnosis on the form) and often enough among mechanics.
>
> > When I was a service manager in an avionics shop there were several
> > customers I hated to see. Some of them were just pains in the butt, butmany
> > others were good people with really sticky problems. In the back, we would
> > groan when we heard their voices because we knew what was coming... andwhat
> > wasn't. We knew there was no more money coming from the customer - he had
> > paid for what should have been a repair but the problem was being stubborn -
> > so we were usually doing the work under shop warranty. Besides the financial
> > side of it was that familiar feeling of hopelessness, the feeling that the
> > problem was going to keep coming back no matter what we do. Nice guy - bad
> > radio.
>
> > Mike
>
> been there, done that, and there are some real ******** out there [like
> me]. but bad diagnosis is not the customer's fault and letting customer
> relations get in the way of resolution is a self-fulfilling nightmare.
>
> unless there is a [genuine, not excuse] design issue, there's always a
> way. bad components are the manufacturer's problem. bad diagnosis is
> the shop's problem. and as the guy that used to get "the hard ones"
> that nobody else could solve, i can say that from experience. and more
> to the point, there's almost always someone else that's solved the
> problem before who's happy to share the info. male ego means most of us
> don't ask enough. and that's dumb. and as this forum shows repeatedly,
> 5 minutes asking the right person can save countless thousands of
> dollars and endless time going right to the solution rather than dicking
> about and falling into the "replace stuff and hope" trap.

Well, there is certainly plenty of ego to go around. I believe the
very nature of a man who would fix his own vehicle must include some
strong egotistical sentiment. Not that it is bad. I've personally
never done well being told that something cannot be done.

Let us look at this logically again. Yes it is a 22yo vehicle. But
the body and suspension are not rusted away, quite the contrary. The
headlights still flip up with the greatest of ease and the electric
windows work on both sides and both from the driver's side. The
interior is clean, the dash is not heat damaged. There is some
oxidization of the paint on the hood, BUT I live 5 minutes from the
Castle on the Lake (Eddyville State Penitentiary) and for 25$ and the
price of paint I can get the entire body redone. Do those things
contribute to the value of this vehicle and the worth of dropping
another BT or A20A3 in it? If I understand correctly those are the
two definite direct fits that are (more easily) available in the US
market. My son thinks the little Honda is cool. Go figure. He is 19
and has this fixation with things that he considers to be from the
distant past, LOL.

Again, I really mean the apology. I could go into all the other crap
that goes on in my life, and it could well be that I vented in the
wrong direction when I took what Tegger said the wrong way. It was my
fault for taking it so. I usually don't have a hair trigger. I guess
there is a combination of not wanting let my son down and also not
give in and be beaten by a machine. Surely someone understands that?
Should we go into the girlfriend issues as well????

I don't want to replace and hope. I think I am pretty sure that it
would be cheaper to drop a new little engine in there. My mechanic
will either do it for next to nothing or let me use his spare bay and
do it myself for nothing. I will buy him copious quantities of Liquor
and he will be pleased. He's a good guy and I have not wanted to
bother him to death with this thing because I wanted to learn for
myself. His initial diagnosis was, "Um, Junior, I'd just put a new
engine in it before I'd go messing with rings and sh%$, either that or
sell it and see if you can get a little more out of it since you got
it running."

Yes indeed, I am thickheaded, stubborn even. I can detect the same
quality in others as well. Those are not necessarily bad qualities if
tempered with the ability to know when to stop. I haven't spent
1/100th as much on this little Honda as I spent on the Ford Windstar
that was tied around my neck via a car loan for almost 8 years. I
don't have a car loan now, and all of that money is free to go into
either fixing up something or not. My personal car is a 1997 Vanden
Plas with the AJ16. From 95-97 Jag made a model that was not a
mechanic magnet, and then they changed to all V engines and everything
went south again. I bought it outright for one heck of a good deal
and have learned the ins and outs of it. It gets 24mpg on the highway
and 18 in town. I decided a while back that putting money into a new
car was crazy. I doubt I will ever do it again.

I'll stop blathering on. I ask again though, where can I get the BT
or A20A3 for this?

Thanks and Peace!
Jack

Tegger

jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in news:01d78346-d550-4689-95c7-
fc8d7481c952@17g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:

> Let me run this one past you all.
>
> Has anyone heard that in 1986 the camshafts were improperly ground and
> the actual valve lash specs are .20mm IN and .32mm EX?



Valve clearances have nothing to do with the cam's profile, if that's
what you mean.

And even if the cam profile was wrong, this would affect engine
performance (and emissions), not valve clearances. I find it HIGHLY
doubtful Honda would commit such a monumental error as installing
improperly ground cams.

If you actually mean the cam was improperly heat-treated, that's a
different issue entirely. There was such a problem with a short run of
1st-gen CR-Vs and this issue, but there was a TSB out on that one.



>
> That is approximately .03mm above the published max specs from the
> manual. This comes to me from another web personality who says he
> knows this for sure.




What's his proof? A terrible mistake like that would result in a TSB. I
can't find any such TSB.



>
> My question would be this. If the cam was ground wrong, would that
> change the aperture of lash?



No. Valve clearances are set with the cams on their heels, where the
lobe is perfectly round and where there is no contact with the follower.



>
> As it is, my son and I set the valve lash on a very very cold engine
> today and it did indeed cause the whole thing to run smoother,
> however, it did not fix the compression problem. I didn't really
> expect it to, but the lash was way off and needed setting anyways.



That's why adjustment helped, not the extra 0.03mm.



> I
> set it to the top end .17mm and .30mm just in case there was some
> truth to the claim.



Typo? That's the manual's specified max.


>
> In testing the compression again after all of this I do note that the
> plug is not fouled in any way, it looks to be "cooking" nicely just
> like the others. It was shiny around the edge of the point and the
> arm was clean.



Then you've got a good strong spark at the plugs. Has nothing to do with
the compression.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger

jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:c453e7dd-cba8-48b6-8c05-bb88d31eca5f@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:


> I don't want to replace and hope. I think I am pretty sure that it
> would be cheaper to drop a new little engine in there. My mechanic
> will either do it for next to nothing or let me use his spare bay and
> do it myself for nothing.



If the body is unrusted (a HUGE point in favor of the car), and you are
perfectly aware that any money you spend on this ride will not come back
from insurance or from a sale, then go for it! Put in a replacement engine.
If your kid wants to help, that's excellent. He will be FAR less likely to
abuse something he's skinned his knuckes and sweated over.

And if your kid thinks the car's cool, you're up another notch. Let him
think that. I have a daughter. For her, cars come in different colors and
are things you go places in. No interest in them whatever.

I get lots of interest and stare-bys for my Integra, but only from the 20-
somethings, who think my ride is cool. People my own age wonder why I
continue to saddle myself with a car this old.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jack42038

On Jan 9, 5:07 pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:

> > set it to the top end .17mm and .30mm just in case there was some
> > truth to the claim.
>
> Typo? That's the manual's specified max.

No, I set at the manual's max which was just within .03mm of the
supposed corrected figures. I figured I would split the difference
and set it to the max spec. That way if there was any truth to this
guy's claim

My son, by the way, will be 20 in February so he's probably one of the
ones that would have turned his head at your car. When I saw this one
on craigslist I knew he would like it.

The money I plan on coming back to me is the money I don't spend in
monthly payments on a new car and monthly payments on full coverage
for a new car and any resultant repairs on a modern vehicle with an
incomprehensible computer system. Money not spent is money not spent.

So, which should I go for, a BT or an A20A3? Where can I get one?
Is there a better option to drop in there?

Thanks
Jack

Tegger

jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in news:edac5113-1bb0-4e53-b356-
86c2e00ee9ae@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com:


>
> So, which should I go for, a BT or an A20A3? Where can I get one?
> Is there a better option to drop in there?
>


What did the car originally come with? It's very much best to install the
same thing as the original.

JDM engines are good deals, monetarily, but you can get in real trouble
with them, especially with the older ones. I get lots of emails looking for
advice. The worst of these are from people who have installed aftermarket
parts, or those who have done a "mix & match" engine swap. Don't do the mix
& match if you can at all help it.

I'd check here:
www.car-part.com
or a local wrecking yard.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jim beam

On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:23:27 +0000, Tegger wrote:

> jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:c453e7dd-cba8-48b6-8c05-bb88d31eca5f@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>> I don't want to replace and hope. I think I am pretty sure that it
>> would be cheaper to drop a new little engine in there. My mechanic
>> will either do it for next to nothing or let me use his spare bay and
>> do it myself for nothing.
>
>
>
> If the body is unrusted (a HUGE point in favor of the car), and you are
> perfectly aware that any money you spend on this ride will not come back
> from insurance or from a sale, then go for it! Put in a replacement
> engine. If your kid wants to help, that's excellent. He will be FAR less
> likely to abuse something he's skinned his knuckes and sweated over.
>
> And if your kid thinks the car's cool, you're up another notch. Let him
> think that. I have a daughter. For her, cars come in different colors
> and are things you go places in. No interest in them whatever.
>
> I get lots of interest and stare-bys for my Integra, but only from the
> 20- somethings, who think my ride is cool. People my own age wonder why
> I continue to saddle myself with a car this old.

not necessarily just the 20-somethings! some guy came up to me the other
day, mid-late 50's, to chat. he raved on about my crx and what a great
car they were, how much he regretted selling his, etc. usual blah. but
when we were done and he'd headed off, i watched him climb into his own
car to drive away. it was a new 7-series bmw!!!

your integra is the same breed. head on around the back of our local
honda dealers and you'll see what the service dept guys drive - late 80's/
early 90's integra, civic hatch, crx. and actually, one of the guys at my
local porsche dealership drives a crx.

jack42038

On Jan 9, 7:53 pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:edac5113-1bb0-4e53-b356-
> 86c2e00ee...@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > So, which should I go for, a BT or an A20A3? Where can I get one?
> > Is there a better option to drop in there?
>
> What did the car originally come with? It's very much best to install the
> same thing as the original.
>
> JDM engines are good deals, monetarily, but you can get in real trouble
> with them, especially with the older ones. I get lots of emails looking for
> advice. The worst of these are from people who have installed aftermarket
> parts, or those who have done a "mix & match" engine swap. Don't do the mix
> & match if you can at all help it.
>
> I'd check here:www.car-part.com
> or a local wrecking yard.
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/

It came with the BT, I just didn't know if there was some improvement
of note over the original from the BT to the A20A3 which appeared the
next year. I appreciate the advice and will look at the site and
see. We have a local yard as well, would getting one from a wrecker
be any different than this one where it sat for a year (rings stuck,
etc...)? I guess I will just have to hunt for a good one.

Thank You
Jack