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1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted
something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and forth to college. He has a good head on his shoulders. The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and the gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there may also be a fuel injector not firing properly. Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it sounds? I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to be under the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have poked around in a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed it to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the odds favor the relay? Please give me your serious thoughts on the subject. I intend to redo the interior and exterior of the car for both me and my son to use. Our other car is a 1997 Jaguar XJ6 that I have completely retooled and retuned. I feel like this Honda should be as easy to work on as well. Any and all advice, pictures, references and resources are appreciated. Please also know that I intend to contribute in any way shape or form that I can to this forum. Peace! Jack |
Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:916f8b8b-68ab-458d-b459-ba24854aae42@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com... >I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted > something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and forth > to college. He has a good head on his shoulders. > > The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and the > gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there may > also be a fuel injector not firing properly. > > Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it sounds? > I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to be under > the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have poked around in > a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner > indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed it > to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the odds > favor the relay? > > Please give me your serious thoughts on the subject. I intend to redo > the interior and exterior of the car for both me and my son to use. > Our other car is a 1997 Jaguar XJ6 that I have completely retooled and > retuned. I feel like this Honda should be as easy to work on as well. > > Any and all advice, pictures, references and resources are > appreciated. Please also know that I intend to contribute in any way > shape or form that I can to this forum. > > Peace! > Jack > I think the odds rather heavily favor the relay. Mike |
Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in news:916f8b8b-68ab-458d-b459-
ba24854aae42@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com: > I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted > something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and forth > to college. He has a good head on his shoulders. > > The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and the > gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there may > also be a fuel injector not firing properly. > > Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it sounds? > I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to be under > the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have poked around in > a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner > indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed it > to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the odds > favor the relay? > To test the Main Relay: 1) Turn ignition key to "II" and leave it there. The Check Engine light should immediately come on, accompanied by a loud click from under the dash. 2) Two seconds later, the Check Engine should go off, whereupon there should be another loud click from under the dash. 3) Turn the key to "III". The starter should crank. At the identical same instant as the starter engages, there will be one more click from under the dash. This one will be hard to hear on account of the starter's noise. Remove the gas cap. Have a helper with good hearing stand with an ear close to the gas filler hole. During step 2, while the Check Engine light is on, you should hear a whine or hum coming from the fuel filler hole. Try the above. What do you find? Oh, also check ALL the fuses in BOTH fuse boxes. Fuse #1 usually controls the ignition. And when the key is turned to "II", do ALL the dash idiot lights illuminate? -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
On Dec 13, 8:59 am, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:916f8b8b-68ab-458d-b459- > ba24854aa...@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com: > > > > > I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted > > something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and forth > > to college. He has a good head on his shoulders. > > > The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and the > > gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there may > > also be a fuel injector not firing properly. > > > Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it sounds? > > I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to be under > > the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have poked around in > > a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner > > indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed it > > to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the odds > > favor the relay? > > To test the Main Relay: > 1) Turn ignition key to "II" and leave it there. The Check Engine light > should immediately come on, accompanied by a loud click from under the > dash. > 2) Two seconds later, the Check Engine should go off, whereupon there > should be another loud click from under the dash. > 3) Turn the key to "III". The starter should crank. At the identical same > instant as the starter engages, there will be one more click from under the > dash. This one will be hard to hear on account of the starter's noise. > > Remove the gas cap. Have a helper with good hearing stand with an ear close > to the gas filler hole. During step 2, while the Check Engine light is on, > you should hear a whine or hum coming from the fuel filler hole. > > Try the above. What do you find? > > Oh, also check ALL the fuses in BOTH fuse boxes. Fuse #1 usually controls > the ignition. And when the key is turned to "II", do ALL the dash idiot > lights illuminate? > > -- > Tegger > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Awesome help so far. What I have found was that two of the more common problems were at fault. #1 The EFI Main Relay (RV0028 I believe) did have cracks around one of the soldered posts. When I fixed this I gained all the proper clicks at all the proper times, HOWEVER the fuel pump did not hum as it should. #2 When I inspected the fuel pump I found that it was receiving power but not coming on. I replaced the fuel pump and the car started immediately. VOILA! you say? Well kind of. I am still ignorant as to proper cylinder numbering as I am too tired to look it up this evening. BUT the cylinder far opposite the distributor cap is missing for some reason. I KNOW it is receiving spark and has a good plug because I replaced the plug and got the snot shocked out of me when my enthusiastic son turned the ignition on too soon. When I disconnect the wire to that plug the engine runs the same as when connected (new wires as of today btw). Also when I disconnect the harness from the injector the engine idle remains the same (rough, miss, etc...) The car seems to run up and down the road fine, but that last cylinder on the right is just not firing, or not firing enough for it's absence to make a difference. I used my stethoscope and all four injectors are clicking right along. What should I look for now? Timing? Valves? Could the injector click and still be bad? I used a light to test the injector harness and I know it is receiving signal. Please point me in the right direction. Many thanks for your help so far. Peace! Jack |
Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:c2e48a6e-61e7-48a6-8b68-7b1f9605ab25@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com: > On Dec 13, 8:59 am, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote: >> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in >> news:916f8b8b-68ab-458d-b459- >> ba24854aa...@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com: >> >> >> >> > I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted >> > something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and >> > forth to college. He has a good head on his shoulders. >> >> > The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and >> > th > e >> > gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there >> > may also be a fuel injector not firing properly. >> >> > Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it >> > sounds? I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to >> > be under the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have >> > poked around i > n >> > a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner >> > indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed >> > it to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the >> > odds favor the relay? >> >> To test the Main Relay: >> 1) Turn ignition key to "II" and leave it there. The Check Engine >> light should immediately come on, accompanied by a loud click from >> under the dash. >> 2) Two seconds later, the Check Engine should go off, whereupon there >> should be another loud click from under the dash. >> 3) Turn the key to "III". The starter should crank. At the identical >> same instant as the starter engages, there will be one more click >> from under t > he >> dash. This one will be hard to hear on account of the starter's >> noise. >> >> Remove the gas cap. Have a helper with good hearing stand with an ear >> clo > se >> to the gas filler hole. During step 2, while the Check Engine light >> is on > , >> you should hear a whine or hum coming from the fuel filler hole. >> >> Try the above. What do you find? >> >> Oh, also check ALL the fuses in BOTH fuse boxes. Fuse #1 usually >> controls the ignition. And when the key is turned to "II", do ALL the >> dash idiot lights illuminate? >> >> >> >> >> > > Awesome help so far. What I have found was that two of the more > common problems were at fault. > > #1 The EFI Main Relay (RV0028 I believe) did have cracks around one of > the soldered posts. When I fixed this I gained all the proper clicks > at all the proper times, HOWEVER the fuel pump did not hum as it > should. > > #2 When I inspected the fuel pump I found that it was receiving power > but not coming on. I replaced the fuel pump and the car started > immediately. > > VOILA! you say? Well kind of. I am still ignorant as to proper > cylinder numbering as I am too tired to look it up this evening. 1-3-4-2, with #1 being closest to the timing belt. #1 on the distributor will be the lowest terminal towards the firewall. #3 will be uppermost nearest the firewall, and so on. > BUT > the cylinder far opposite the distributor cap is missing for some > reason. That's #4. > I KNOW it is receiving spark and has a good plug because I > replaced the plug and got the snot shocked out of me when my > enthusiastic son turned the ignition on too soon. When I disconnect > the wire to that plug the engine runs the same as when connected (new > wires as of today btw). Also when I disconnect the harness from the > injector the engine idle remains the same (rough, miss, etc...) The > car seems to run up and down the road fine, but that last cylinder on > the right is just not firing, or not firing enough for it's absence to > make a difference. I used my stethoscope and all four injectors are > clicking right along. > > What should I look for now? Timing? Valves? Could the injector click > and still be bad? I used a light to test the injector harness and I > know it is receiving signal. Please point me in the right direction. > Suspect bad compression. This can be due to several things, from broken rings to burnt valves. A compression test will tell you for sure that this is the problem. What can also happen on engines that have sat for a very long time is that a valve can stick slightly open, or the rings can be sticking on their carbon deposits. Take the car out for a good run, making sure to come close to the redline a couple of times. Take note of how the engine behaves after that. Any improvement? When it cools down, check the valve clearances to make sure they're in spec, then do a compression test if there's still a problem. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
On Dec 14, 4:16 pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:c2e48a6e-61e7-48a6-8b68-7b1f9605ab25@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com: > > > > > On Dec 13, 8:59 am, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote: > >> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in > >> news:916f8b8b-68ab-458d-b459- > >> ba24854aa...@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com: > > >> > I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted > >> > something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and > >> > forth to college. He has a good head on his shoulders. > > >> > The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and > >> > th > > e > >> > gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there > >> > may also be a fuel injector not firing properly. > > >> > Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it > >> > sounds? I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to > >> > be under the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have > >> > poked around i > > n > >> > a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner > >> > indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed > >> > it to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the > >> > odds favor the relay? > > >> To test the Main Relay: > >> 1) Turn ignition key to "II" and leave it there. The Check Engine > >> light should immediately come on, accompanied by a loud click from > >> under the dash. > >> 2) Two seconds later, the Check Engine should go off, whereupon there > >> should be another loud click from under the dash. > >> 3) Turn the key to "III". The starter should crank. At the identical > >> same instant as the starter engages, there will be one more click > >> from under t > > he > >> dash. This one will be hard to hear on account of the starter's > >> noise. > > >> Remove the gas cap. Have a helper with good hearing stand with an ear > >> clo > > se > >> to the gas filler hole. During step 2, while the Check Engine light > >> is on > > , > >> you should hear a whine or hum coming from the fuel filler hole. > > >> Try the above. What do you find? > > >> Oh, also check ALL the fuses in BOTH fuse boxes. Fuse #1 usually > >> controls the ignition. And when the key is turned to "II", do ALL the > >> dash idiot lights illuminate? > > > Awesome help so far. What I have found was that two of the more > > common problems were at fault. > > > #1 The EFI Main Relay (RV0028 I believe) did have cracks around one of > > the soldered posts. When I fixed this I gained all the proper clicks > > at all the proper times, HOWEVER the fuel pump did not hum as it > > should. > > > #2 When I inspected the fuel pump I found that it was receiving power > > but not coming on. I replaced the fuel pump and the car started > > immediately. > > > VOILA! you say? Well kind of. I am still ignorant as to proper > > cylinder numbering as I am too tired to look it up this evening. > > 1-3-4-2, with #1 being closest to the timing belt. > > #1 on the distributor will be the lowest terminal towards the firewall. > #3 will be uppermost nearest the firewall, and so on. > > > BUT > > the cylinder far opposite the distributor cap is missing for some > > reason. > > That's #4. > > > I KNOW it is receiving spark and has a good plug because I > > replaced the plug and got the snot shocked out of me when my > > enthusiastic son turned the ignition on too soon. When I disconnect > > the wire to that plug the engine runs the same as when connected (new > > wires as of today btw). Also when I disconnect the harness from the > > injector the engine idle remains the same (rough, miss, etc...) The > > car seems to run up and down the road fine, but that last cylinder on > > the right is just not firing, or not firing enough for it's absence to > > make a difference. I used my stethoscope and all four injectors are > > clicking right along. > > > What should I look for now? Timing? Valves? Could the injector click > > and still be bad? I used a light to test the injector harness and I > > know it is receiving signal. Please point me in the right direction. > > Suspect bad compression. This can be due to several things, from broken > rings to burnt valves. A compression test will tell you for sure that > this is the problem. > > What can also happen on engines that have sat for a very long time is > that a valve can stick slightly open, or the rings can be sticking on > their carbon deposits. > > Take the car out for a good run, making sure to come close to the > redline a couple of times. Take note of how the engine behaves after > that. Any improvement? When it cools down, check the valve clearances to > make sure they're in spec, then do a compression test if there's still a > problem. > > -- > Tegger > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Ok, I think there might be some misunderstanding from my description. If the timing belt is on the opposite side of the engine as the distributor cap (the far end from the dc) then the cylinder I am having trouble with would be cylinder #1 right? Since it is the one right next to the timing belt? I think my language was a little ambiguous. At this point I have pulled the injectors and swapped 1 with 2 and the problem stayed with cylinder #1, so I am pretty sure that means a stuck valve, bad spring or something like that in #1. I will run a compression test in the morning. That is the next logical step right? It is not blowing oil, so that means no hole in the cylinder head. Right??? Does anyone happen to have a picture tutorial for swapping out a valve, spring or lifter or what have you? Again, thanks for the marvelous input and next time I will try and be more patient on the system to post my posts. |
Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
On Dec 14, 4:16 pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:c2e48a6e-61e7-48a6-8b68-7b1f9605ab25@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com: > > > > > On Dec 13, 8:59 am, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote: > >> jack42038 <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in > >> news:916f8b8b-68ab-458d-b459- > >> ba24854aa...@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com: > > >> > I purchased a 1986 Honda LXI 5spd FI 2.0 for my son. He wanted > >> > something that would get good gas mileage and get him back and > >> > forth to college. He has a good head on his shoulders. > > >> > The car was sold as-is with 2 problems. No fuel to the engine and > >> > th > > e > >> > gas tank gauge does not register. The owner indicated that there > >> > may also be a fuel injector not firing properly. > > >> > Let me ask, do you think this is going to be as simple as it > >> > sounds? I am leaning towards the EFI Main relay, which I believe to > >> > be under the dash in this model. Its been a while since I have > >> > poked around i > > n > >> > a Honda, but somethings are always the same. The previous owner > >> > indicated that there was no hum from the fuel pump and he assumed > >> > it to be the pump. I have ordered one just in case but don't the > >> > odds favor the relay? > > >> To test the Main Relay: > >> 1) Turn ignition key to "II" and leave it there. The Check Engine > >> light should immediately come on, accompanied by a loud click from > >> under the dash. > >> 2) Two seconds later, the Check Engine should go off, whereupon there > >> should be another loud click from under the dash. > >> 3) Turn the key to "III". The starter should crank. At the identical > >> same instant as the starter engages, there will be one more click > >> from under t > > he > >> dash. This one will be hard to hear on account of the starter's > >> noise. > > >> Remove the gas cap. Have a helper with good hearing stand with an ear > >> clo > > se > >> to the gas filler hole. During step 2, while the Check Engine light > >> is on > > , > >> you should hear a whine or hum coming from the fuel filler hole. > > >> Try the above. What do you find? > > >> Oh, also check ALL the fuses in BOTH fuse boxes. Fuse #1 usually > >> controls the ignition. And when the key is turned to "II", do ALL the > >> dash idiot lights illuminate? > > > Awesome help so far. What I have found was that two of the more > > common problems were at fault. > > > #1 The EFI Main Relay (RV0028 I believe) did have cracks around one of > > the soldered posts. When I fixed this I gained all the proper clicks > > at all the proper times, HOWEVER the fuel pump did not hum as it > > should. > > > #2 When I inspected the fuel pump I found that it was receiving power > > but not coming on. I replaced the fuel pump and the car started > > immediately. > > > VOILA! you say? Well kind of. I am still ignorant as to proper > > cylinder numbering as I am too tired to look it up this evening. > > 1-3-4-2, with #1 being closest to the timing belt. > > #1 on the distributor will be the lowest terminal towards the firewall. > #3 will be uppermost nearest the firewall, and so on. > > > BUT > > the cylinder far opposite the distributor cap is missing for some > > reason. > > That's #4. > > > I KNOW it is receiving spark and has a good plug because I > > replaced the plug and got the snot shocked out of me when my > > enthusiastic son turned the ignition on too soon. When I disconnect > > the wire to that plug the engine runs the same as when connected (new > > wires as of today btw). Also when I disconnect the harness from the > > injector the engine idle remains the same (rough, miss, etc...) The > > car seems to run up and down the road fine, but that last cylinder on > > the right is just not firing, or not firing enough for it's absence to > > make a difference. I used my stethoscope and all four injectors are > > clicking right along. > > > What should I look for now? Timing? Valves? Could the injector click > > and still be bad? I used a light to test the injector harness and I > > know it is receiving signal. Please point me in the right direction. > > Suspect bad compression. This can be due to several things, from broken > rings to burnt valves. A compression test will tell you for sure that > this is the problem. > > What can also happen on engines that have sat for a very long time is > that a valve can stick slightly open, or the rings can be sticking on > their carbon deposits. > > Take the car out for a good run, making sure to come close to the > redline a couple of times. Take note of how the engine behaves after > that. Any improvement? When it cools down, check the valve clearances to > make sure they're in spec, then do a compression test if there's still a > problem. > > -- > Tegger > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Ok, couple more hours later. I did the "Italian Tune-Up" so named for the Italian Cars of the 50s and 60s that responded so well to just being taken out and "Blown Out" you know, redlining the thing. I read a forum where someone got upset and made a whole racial thing out of the term "Italian Tune-Up" so I thought I would qualify the statement with the proper definition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_tuneup Redlining the thing seems to have done "something"???? but I am not sure what. There is no black, white or blue smoke coming out of the exhaust. The engine does idle a little smoother, but unplugging the spark plug wire on cylinder #1 still has ZERO effect. I took the valve cover off and the rocker arms are all in place and the springs seem to be working properly. I ran it for a few moments sans cover to watch. Wouldn't this point toward carbon build up on the valve causing it not to close fully? The inside of the valve cover is also covered in that black jellified oil. At some point this thing got too hot or too low on oil or something. The good. It's running, and has speed. It isn't gulping gas. It isn't burning, at least at a rate noticeable in the last few days. Tires are new. The bad. Cylinder #1 still missing. I will do the compression test in the morning at a friend's shop. It needs an alignment, I will take it to sears to a friend there. The outside of the air intake filter was COVERED in acorns. That might give you an idea as to how long it sat. The little fella was ready for the winter and I drove off with his nuts, LOL. Tegger, the valve clearance specs are going to be in my manual right? Working on this Honda is almost as much fun as working on my Jaguar. They are both well built machines. Keep the suggestions and ideas coming. I am trying to give as much info as I can because something I observe may mean more to an experienced person than it does to me. These places are awesome. Yay for the free exchange of ideas and information. Peace! Jack |
Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:d7147046-bcae-4c75-93ad-3fba04800963@13g2000yql.googlegroups.com: > > Ok, I think there might be some misunderstanding from my description. > If the timing belt is on the opposite side of the engine as the > distributor cap (the far end from the dc) then the cylinder I am > having trouble with would be cylinder #1 right? Since it is the one > right next to the timing belt? That's #1, yes. > I think my language was a little > ambiguous. > > At this point I have pulled the injectors and swapped 1 with 2 and the > problem stayed with cylinder #1, so I am pretty sure that means a > stuck valve, bad spring or something like that in #1. I will run a > compression test in the morning. That is the next logical step > right? It is not blowing oil, so that means no hole in the cylinder > head. Right??? The proper approach: Take the car for a spin as described before. If it's a valve sticking, this may free it up. If no change after the drive, check the valve clearances to make sure they're in spec, then do a compression test. I think you'll find #1 to be near zero or at least significantly lower than the others. > > Does anyone happen to have a picture tutorial for swapping out a > valve, spring or lifter or what have you? If it's a burnt valve, you need to either swap in a known-good head, or get the existing one rebuilt by a shop. If it's a broken ring, the engine is scrap. If it's rings that are worn out, the engine is scrap (economically, anyway). If it's rings that are stuck with carbon, there's another fix. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:fe8e5248-9568-4883-ba4d-a87e51900eea@z1g2000yqn.googlegroups.com: > > Tegger, the valve clearance specs are going to be in my manual right? Yes. I think you've got near zero compression in the #1 cylinder, and there are several possible reasons for this. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9B755F34CF902tegger@208.90.168.18... > > I think you've got near zero compression in the #1 cylinder, and there are > several possible reasons for this. > > > > -- > Tegger In fact, compression that bad doesn't need a fancy guage to test it. If you pull the crank through the four cylinders with a socket on the crank bolt (CCW remember) you will feel the compression. If you feel three cylinders and nothing where the fourth should be that is a good clue. Mike |
Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
"Michael Pardee" <null@null.org> wrote in
news:pt2dnSICLsmZA9vUnZ2dnUVZ_h-dnZ2d@sedona.net: > "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message > news:Xns9B755F34CF902tegger@208.90.168.18... >> >> I think you've got near zero compression in the #1 cylinder, and >> there are several possible reasons for this. >> >> >> >> >> > > In fact, compression that bad doesn't need a fancy guage to test it. > If you pull the crank through the four cylinders with a socket on the > crank bolt (CCW remember) you will feel the compression. If you feel > three cylinders and nothing where the fourth should be that is a good > clue. > Good point. You should feel a consistent resistance to your turning as each cylinder passes TDC on compression. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
On Dec 15, 12:12 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
> "Tegger" <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote in message > > news:Xns9B755F34CF902tegger@208.90.168.18... > > > > > I think you've got near zero compression in the #1 cylinder, and there are > > several possible reasons for this. > > > -- > > Tegger > > In fact, compression that bad doesn't need a fancy guage to test it. If you > pull the crank through the four cylinders with a socket on the crank bolt > (CCW remember) you will feel the compression. If you feel three cylinders > and nothing where the fourth should be that is a good clue. > > Mike Compression on cylinder #1 is 75. We put a little oil in and achieved 150 just like the other three cylinders. As soon as I went back to the spark plug the compression was lost again. Could this be as simple as a stuck ring, not opening up against the cylinder wall? Any other ideas? Peace! Jack btw, it does run rather well on just three cylinders. LOL |
Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
jack42038 <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:7aadb41b-27f9-4691-bd27-9bec476b7440@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com: > > Compression on cylinder #1 is 75. We put a little oil in and achieved > 150 just like the other three cylinders. As soon as I went back to > the spark plug the compression was lost again. Could this be as > simple as a stuck ring, not opening up against the cylinder wall? Seventy-five PSI dry? You've got a dead cylinder. /Minimum/ would be about 150. You're expecting something close to 170 brand-new. If oil achieved 150 on that cylinder, then the rings are shot. It's slightly possible that carbon is the culprit, but if your Italian Tuneup didn't free it up, it's probably just worn out. > > Any other ideas? Pull the plugs again. Turn the engine (CCW!) so all the cylinders are half way. Put a tablespoon or so of kerosene or diesel into each spark plug hole, enough that it runs off the the piston tops to the edges. Leave it a couple of weeks. Crank the engine over a couple of times by hand (observing to make sure there's not so much kerosene as to cause hydro-lock when the plugs are returned), put the plugs back, then take it for another spirited drive. No change? Time for a new motor. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
"jack42038" <jacklarwa@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:7aadb41b-27f9-4691-bd27-9bec476b7440@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com... On Dec 15, 12:12 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote: Compression on cylinder #1 is 75. We put a little oil in and achieved 150 just like the other three cylinders. As soon as I went back to the spark plug the compression was lost again. Could this be as simple as a stuck ring, not opening up against the cylinder wall? Any other ideas? Peace! Jack btw, it does run rather well on just three cylinders. LOL ========================================== I wouldn't hope too much or give up hope at this point. In the '60s we used to hear about piston rings being stuck as you describe, but I never actually encountered one. OTOH... you describe sludge on the underside of the valve cover so it isn't far-fetched. What's the harm of putting an ounce or so of lacquer thinner into the spark plug hole and following it up half an hour later with enough oil to lubricate it again? I'd recommend running the engine long enough to warm it up and boil off the lacquer thinner before repeating the process, but it sure beats a teardown. Hmm... "Ask"ing: "do piston rings get stuck" I see all sorts of recommendations to get them unstuck when the piston is out of the engine, and it still sounds gnarly. Best of luck, Jack! Anyway, now you know what the nature of the problem is. Mike |
Re: 1986 Honda Accord LXI, FI 2.0
On Dec 15, 6:47 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
> "jack42038" <jackla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:7aadb41b-27f9-4691-bd27-9bec476b7440@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 15, 12:12 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote: > > Compression on cylinder #1 is 75. We put a little oil in and achieved > 150 just like the other three cylinders. As soon as I went back to > the spark plug the compression was lost again. Could this be as > simple as a stuck ring, not opening up against the cylinder wall? > > Any other ideas? > > Peace! > Jack > > btw, it does run rather well on just three cylinders. LOL > > ========================================== > I wouldn't hope too much or give up hope at this point. In the '60s we used > to hear about piston rings being stuck as you describe, but I never actually > encountered one. OTOH... you describe sludge on the underside of the valve > cover so it isn't far-fetched. What's the harm of putting an ounce or so of > lacquer thinner into the spark plug hole and following it up half an hour > later with enough oil to lubricate it again? I'd recommend running the > engine long enough to warm it up and boil off the lacquer thinner before > repeating the process, but it sure beats a teardown. Hmm... "Ask"ing: "do > piston rings get stuck" I see all sorts of recommendations to get them > unstuck when the piston is out of the engine, and it still sounds gnarly. > Best of luck, Jack! > > Anyway, now you know what the nature of the problem is. > > Mike Sounds like both the kerosene and the lacquer thinner approach are the same sort of fix. Tegger, were you talking about leaving the kerosene sit in the engine, unmoved for a couple of weeks? I may not have the luxury of letting it sit that long. I have used lacquer thinner before in small engine repair. I works. Stabil does the same thing though. It cleans out stuff in the same fashion. Ive watched it completely dissolve carbon and varnish on a weedeater engine. OKAY, here's the other big question. Until it is warmer and I can pull this off the road and effect repairs, what will it do to the engine to run it on 3 pistons? I'm not kidding when I say it is running fine. What will happen to the engine if it is run this way? It only has 168,000 miles on it. I have seen these engines on eBay for 175, does anyone know anything about them?? I'm going to try the lacquer thinner I think. Thanks again, you guys are a lot of help. |
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