|
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:%pBbh.5635$1s6.3597@newsread2.news.pas.earthl ink.net: > "The Reverend Natural Light" <reverend@fourthgen.org> wrote >> I've got a 1991 Accord that won't start. It ran fine >> daily, sat parked >> for a couple of days, and now won't start. >> >> - No Spark on any plug. >> - Cranks just fine. >> - Fuel pump cycles when the key is switched on. >> - Check engine light comes on, then shuts off after a few >> seconds. >> - Rotor turns. >> - 0.7 ohms resistence across the low side of the coil (low >> voltage >> tabs). >> - High side of the coil (post to ground) is open (infinite >> resistence). > > Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms, > respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil is > good. How does "infinite resistance = 12.8K to 19.2K ohms? IMO,infinite R = OPEN = bad coil. Of course,he should be measuring from either one of the LV tabs to the EHT output terminal(post) for that secondary resistance reading,as the igniter will not be grounding the coil. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote >> "The Reverend Natural Light" <reverend@fourthgen.org> >> wrote >>> - High side of the coil (post to ground) is open >>> (infinite >>> resistence). >> >> Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms, >> respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil >> is >> good. > > How does "infinite resistance = 12.8K to 19.2K ohms? > IMO,infinite R = OPEN = bad coil. I thought his meter might not be able to register high resistances. Maye this is erroneous on my part... |
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote >> "The Reverend Natural Light" <reverend@fourthgen.org> >> wrote >>> - High side of the coil (post to ground) is open >>> (infinite >>> resistence). >> >> Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms, >> respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil >> is >> good. > > How does "infinite resistance = 12.8K to 19.2K ohms? > IMO,infinite R = OPEN = bad coil. I thought his meter might not be able to register high resistances. Maye this is erroneous on my part... |
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote >> "The Reverend Natural Light" <reverend@fourthgen.org> >> wrote >>> - High side of the coil (post to ground) is open >>> (infinite >>> resistence). >> >> Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms, >> respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil >> is >> good. > > How does "infinite resistance = 12.8K to 19.2K ohms? > IMO,infinite R = OPEN = bad coil. I thought his meter might not be able to register high resistances. Maye this is erroneous on my part... |
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
motsco_ wrote:
> > I think it WAS flooded (see owner's manual for how to start) but now the > coil (or is it igniter) is shot because you spun it with the plugs > disconnected. When the high tension has nowhere to go, it goes > internally and blazes new trails. > I didn't crank the engine at all with nothing connected to the high side. Entirely possible that has been done in the car's past, however. -rev |
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
motsco_ wrote:
> > I think it WAS flooded (see owner's manual for how to start) but now the > coil (or is it igniter) is shot because you spun it with the plugs > disconnected. When the high tension has nowhere to go, it goes > internally and blazes new trails. > I didn't crank the engine at all with nothing connected to the high side. Entirely possible that has been done in the car's past, however. -rev |
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
motsco_ wrote:
> > I think it WAS flooded (see owner's manual for how to start) but now the > coil (or is it igniter) is shot because you spun it with the plugs > disconnected. When the high tension has nowhere to go, it goes > internally and blazes new trails. > I didn't crank the engine at all with nothing connected to the high side. Entirely possible that has been done in the car's past, however. -rev |
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
Elle wrote:
> > Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms, > respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil is > good. > I measured from the high tension post to ground and it read (according to my highly accurate Radio Shack auto-ranging digital multimeter) to be completely open. That's normal? I was guessing something in the kiliohms range. > > My money's on the problem being the igniter or some other > ignition part. The igniter costs under $100 from OEM online > parts sites and is not hard to replace, given your other > experience. > I agree, but I'm afraid at this point that it could have damaged the coil as well. For GM cars I always recommend replacement of the ignition module as a preventative even if it still works. > > How many miles on car? Years and miles on coil and igniter? > If originals or non-OEM, again, strongly suspect one of > them. > > When was the car last tuned up (new plugs, wires, > distributor rotor and cap, fuel filter, air filter, timing > check, bottle of Chevron Techron in fuel tank)? Were OEM > ignition parts used? > It's the girlfriend's car which she bought from a sleazy used car dealership with 170k miles on the clock. Who knows when or if it has ever been maintained or tuned up. The inside of the cap looked about as bad as I've ever seen. Surprisingly it ran very well, but it is a Honda. I'd like to use OEM replacement parts but I *must* get the car running this weekend (she's driving MY new truck to work right now!) so it'll get whatever Autozone has to offer. > > A good site for these and other candidate problems for your > situation, including further checks you can do on the coil > and igniter: > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html > Thanks for the link. That's a good site. Wish I had a dwell meter to perform the recommended test. I'm contemplating plugging my oscilloscope into the low side to look for pulses before condemning any $100+ ignition parts that I don't fully understand. I'll post back what ends up fixing it - might help someone else someday. Thanks for the advice! -rev |
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
Elle wrote:
> > Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms, > respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil is > good. > I measured from the high tension post to ground and it read (according to my highly accurate Radio Shack auto-ranging digital multimeter) to be completely open. That's normal? I was guessing something in the kiliohms range. > > My money's on the problem being the igniter or some other > ignition part. The igniter costs under $100 from OEM online > parts sites and is not hard to replace, given your other > experience. > I agree, but I'm afraid at this point that it could have damaged the coil as well. For GM cars I always recommend replacement of the ignition module as a preventative even if it still works. > > How many miles on car? Years and miles on coil and igniter? > If originals or non-OEM, again, strongly suspect one of > them. > > When was the car last tuned up (new plugs, wires, > distributor rotor and cap, fuel filter, air filter, timing > check, bottle of Chevron Techron in fuel tank)? Were OEM > ignition parts used? > It's the girlfriend's car which she bought from a sleazy used car dealership with 170k miles on the clock. Who knows when or if it has ever been maintained or tuned up. The inside of the cap looked about as bad as I've ever seen. Surprisingly it ran very well, but it is a Honda. I'd like to use OEM replacement parts but I *must* get the car running this weekend (she's driving MY new truck to work right now!) so it'll get whatever Autozone has to offer. > > A good site for these and other candidate problems for your > situation, including further checks you can do on the coil > and igniter: > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html > Thanks for the link. That's a good site. Wish I had a dwell meter to perform the recommended test. I'm contemplating plugging my oscilloscope into the low side to look for pulses before condemning any $100+ ignition parts that I don't fully understand. I'll post back what ends up fixing it - might help someone else someday. Thanks for the advice! -rev |
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
Elle wrote:
> > Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms, > respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil is > good. > I measured from the high tension post to ground and it read (according to my highly accurate Radio Shack auto-ranging digital multimeter) to be completely open. That's normal? I was guessing something in the kiliohms range. > > My money's on the problem being the igniter or some other > ignition part. The igniter costs under $100 from OEM online > parts sites and is not hard to replace, given your other > experience. > I agree, but I'm afraid at this point that it could have damaged the coil as well. For GM cars I always recommend replacement of the ignition module as a preventative even if it still works. > > How many miles on car? Years and miles on coil and igniter? > If originals or non-OEM, again, strongly suspect one of > them. > > When was the car last tuned up (new plugs, wires, > distributor rotor and cap, fuel filter, air filter, timing > check, bottle of Chevron Techron in fuel tank)? Were OEM > ignition parts used? > It's the girlfriend's car which she bought from a sleazy used car dealership with 170k miles on the clock. Who knows when or if it has ever been maintained or tuned up. The inside of the cap looked about as bad as I've ever seen. Surprisingly it ran very well, but it is a Honda. I'd like to use OEM replacement parts but I *must* get the car running this weekend (she's driving MY new truck to work right now!) so it'll get whatever Autozone has to offer. > > A good site for these and other candidate problems for your > situation, including further checks you can do on the coil > and igniter: > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html > Thanks for the link. That's a good site. Wish I had a dwell meter to perform the recommended test. I'm contemplating plugging my oscilloscope into the low side to look for pulses before condemning any $100+ ignition parts that I don't fully understand. I'll post back what ends up fixing it - might help someone else someday. Thanks for the advice! -rev |
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
"The Reverend Natural Light" <reverend@fourthgen.org> wrote
> Elle wrote: >> >> Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms, >> respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil >> is >> good. >> > > I measured from the high tension post to ground and it > read (according > to my highly accurate Radio Shack auto-ranging digital > multimeter) to > be completely open. That's normal? I was guessing > something in the > kiliohms range. I misread the manual, for one thing. I think what you are measuring is the resistance of a circuit with a capacitor in it. See the top drawing at http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id5.html. Jim Yanik can chime in here and see if I have it right now. What the manual specifies to check is the resistance between (1) the high tension positive terminal (called terminal "A" in the manual, and having a black/yellow wire connecting to it) and (2) the secondary terminal (= the "coil tower" in some manuals = the part of the coil going to the distributor cap and plugs, etc.). It is this resistance that is supposed to be in the kiliohms range. Towards the bottom of the following site, the procedure is described, with specs: http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d800cf2cb.jsp > I'd like to use OEM replacement parts but I *must* get the > car running > this weekend (she's driving MY new truck to work right > now!) so it'll > get whatever Autozone has to offer. Some fellow posted in the last year or so that for something like $200 for parts, he slapped a new Autozone distributor (housing, igniter, coil, the works) into his Honda and it fixed it right up. It's not a long term fix, IMO, because the OEM parts are superior, from my experience (91 Civic, original owner, myriad distributor problems) and reading here. |
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
"The Reverend Natural Light" <reverend@fourthgen.org> wrote
> Elle wrote: >> >> Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms, >> respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil >> is >> good. >> > > I measured from the high tension post to ground and it > read (according > to my highly accurate Radio Shack auto-ranging digital > multimeter) to > be completely open. That's normal? I was guessing > something in the > kiliohms range. I misread the manual, for one thing. I think what you are measuring is the resistance of a circuit with a capacitor in it. See the top drawing at http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id5.html. Jim Yanik can chime in here and see if I have it right now. What the manual specifies to check is the resistance between (1) the high tension positive terminal (called terminal "A" in the manual, and having a black/yellow wire connecting to it) and (2) the secondary terminal (= the "coil tower" in some manuals = the part of the coil going to the distributor cap and plugs, etc.). It is this resistance that is supposed to be in the kiliohms range. Towards the bottom of the following site, the procedure is described, with specs: http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d800cf2cb.jsp > I'd like to use OEM replacement parts but I *must* get the > car running > this weekend (she's driving MY new truck to work right > now!) so it'll > get whatever Autozone has to offer. Some fellow posted in the last year or so that for something like $200 for parts, he slapped a new Autozone distributor (housing, igniter, coil, the works) into his Honda and it fixed it right up. It's not a long term fix, IMO, because the OEM parts are superior, from my experience (91 Civic, original owner, myriad distributor problems) and reading here. |
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
"The Reverend Natural Light" <reverend@fourthgen.org> wrote
> Elle wrote: >> >> Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms, >> respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil >> is >> good. >> > > I measured from the high tension post to ground and it > read (according > to my highly accurate Radio Shack auto-ranging digital > multimeter) to > be completely open. That's normal? I was guessing > something in the > kiliohms range. I misread the manual, for one thing. I think what you are measuring is the resistance of a circuit with a capacitor in it. See the top drawing at http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id5.html. Jim Yanik can chime in here and see if I have it right now. What the manual specifies to check is the resistance between (1) the high tension positive terminal (called terminal "A" in the manual, and having a black/yellow wire connecting to it) and (2) the secondary terminal (= the "coil tower" in some manuals = the part of the coil going to the distributor cap and plugs, etc.). It is this resistance that is supposed to be in the kiliohms range. Towards the bottom of the following site, the procedure is described, with specs: http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d800cf2cb.jsp > I'd like to use OEM replacement parts but I *must* get the > car running > this weekend (she's driving MY new truck to work right > now!) so it'll > get whatever Autozone has to offer. Some fellow posted in the last year or so that for something like $200 for parts, he slapped a new Autozone distributor (housing, igniter, coil, the works) into his Honda and it fixed it right up. It's not a long term fix, IMO, because the OEM parts are superior, from my experience (91 Civic, original owner, myriad distributor problems) and reading here. |
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:JJCbh.5220$tM1.2500@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net: > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote >> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote >>> "The Reverend Natural Light" <reverend@fourthgen.org> >>> wrote >>>> - High side of the coil (post to ground) is open >>>> (infinite >>>> resistence). >>> >>> Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms, >>> respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil >>> is >>> good. >> >> How does "infinite resistance = 12.8K to 19.2K ohms? >> IMO,infinite R = OPEN = bad coil. > > I thought his meter might not be able to register high > resistances. Maye this is erroneous on my part... > > > Most any meter should be able to read 200K ohms full scale,up to 2 megohms FS is very common. My $3 Harbor Freight DMM has a 2 Meg range,my 4.5 digit DMM goes up to 20 Meg.My analog Simpson 270-3 goes up to 2 meg FS. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:JJCbh.5220$tM1.2500@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net: > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote >> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote >>> "The Reverend Natural Light" <reverend@fourthgen.org> >>> wrote >>>> - High side of the coil (post to ground) is open >>>> (infinite >>>> resistence). >>> >>> Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms, >>> respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil >>> is >>> good. >> >> How does "infinite resistance = 12.8K to 19.2K ohms? >> IMO,infinite R = OPEN = bad coil. > > I thought his meter might not be able to register high > resistances. Maye this is erroneous on my part... > > > Most any meter should be able to read 200K ohms full scale,up to 2 megohms FS is very common. My $3 Harbor Freight DMM has a 2 Meg range,my 4.5 digit DMM goes up to 20 Meg.My analog Simpson 270-3 goes up to 2 meg FS. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:10 PM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands