Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:JJCbh.5220$tM1.2500@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net:

> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote
>> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
>>> "The Reverend Natural Light" <reverend@fourthgen.org>
>>> wrote
>>>> - High side of the coil (post to ground) is open
>>>> (infinite
>>>> resistence).
>>>
>>> Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms,
>>> respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil
>>> is
>>> good.
>>
>> How does "infinite resistance = 12.8K to 19.2K ohms?
>> IMO,infinite R = OPEN = bad coil.
>
> I thought his meter might not be able to register high
> resistances. Maye this is erroneous on my part...
>
>
>

Most any meter should be able to read 200K ohms full scale,up to 2 megohms
FS is very common.

My $3 Harbor Freight DMM has a 2 Meg range,my 4.5 digit DMM goes up to 20
Meg.My analog Simpson 270-3 goes up to 2 meg FS.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:LEEbh.5256$tM1.1715@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net:

> "The Reverend Natural Light" <reverend@fourthgen.org> wrote
>> Elle wrote:
>>>
>>> Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms,
>>> respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil
>>> is
>>> good.
>>>
>>
>> I measured from the high tension post to ground and it
>> read (according
>> to my highly accurate Radio Shack auto-ranging digital
>> multimeter) to
>> be completely open. That's normal? I was guessing
>> something in the
>> kiliohms range.
>
> I misread the manual, for one thing. I think what you are
> measuring is the resistance of a circuit with a capacitor in
> it. See the top drawing at
> http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id5.html. Jim Yanik
> can chime in
> here and see if I have it right now.

He said he was measuring to -ground-,which only works if the igniter is
grounding the coil,which it does not do with the car off.

(grounding the ign.coil charges it up,and ungrounding the coil afterwards
generates the spark voltage.That condenser is actually part of the HV
current path!)

Actually,on a 20K or 200K meter range,it does not matter which side of the
primary he measures to the center post(wht/blu or blk/yel to post),as the
primary is so low a resistance,the meter sees it as a short,and only
measures the High Tension(HT) side of the coil.
That's after measuring the low side of the coil so you know it's not open.
I suspect it's rare the low side (primary) of the coil has any problem.


>
> What the manual specifies to check is the resistance between
> (1) the high tension positive terminal (called terminal "A"
> in the manual, and having a black/yellow wire connecting to
> it) and (2) the secondary terminal (= the "coil tower" in
> some manuals = the part of the coil going to the distributor
> cap and plugs, etc.). It is this resistance that is supposed
> to be in the kiliohms range.
>
> Towards the bottom of the following site, the procedure is
> described, with specs:
> http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...cds/en_us/0900
> 823d/80/0c/f2/cb/0900823d800cf2cb.jsp
>
>> I'd like to use OEM replacement parts but I *must* get the
>> car running
>> this weekend (she's driving MY new truck to work right
>> now!) so it'll
>> get whatever Autozone has to offer.
>
> Some fellow posted in the last year or so that for something
> like $200 for parts, he slapped a new Autozone distributor
> (housing, igniter, coil, the works) into his Honda and it
> fixed it right up.
>
> It's not a long term fix, IMO, because the OEM parts are
> superior, from my experience (91 Civic, original owner,
> myriad distributor problems) and reading here.
>
>
>

Good info you've given here,Elle. Thx!

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:LEEbh.5256$tM1.1715@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net:

> "The Reverend Natural Light" <reverend@fourthgen.org> wrote
>> Elle wrote:
>>>
>>> Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms,
>>> respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil
>>> is
>>> good.
>>>
>>
>> I measured from the high tension post to ground and it
>> read (according
>> to my highly accurate Radio Shack auto-ranging digital
>> multimeter) to
>> be completely open. That's normal? I was guessing
>> something in the
>> kiliohms range.
>
> I misread the manual, for one thing. I think what you are
> measuring is the resistance of a circuit with a capacitor in
> it. See the top drawing at
> http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id5.html. Jim Yanik
> can chime in
> here and see if I have it right now.

He said he was measuring to -ground-,which only works if the igniter is
grounding the coil,which it does not do with the car off.

(grounding the ign.coil charges it up,and ungrounding the coil afterwards
generates the spark voltage.That condenser is actually part of the HV
current path!)

Actually,on a 20K or 200K meter range,it does not matter which side of the
primary he measures to the center post(wht/blu or blk/yel to post),as the
primary is so low a resistance,the meter sees it as a short,and only
measures the High Tension(HT) side of the coil.
That's after measuring the low side of the coil so you know it's not open.
I suspect it's rare the low side (primary) of the coil has any problem.


>
> What the manual specifies to check is the resistance between
> (1) the high tension positive terminal (called terminal "A"
> in the manual, and having a black/yellow wire connecting to
> it) and (2) the secondary terminal (= the "coil tower" in
> some manuals = the part of the coil going to the distributor
> cap and plugs, etc.). It is this resistance that is supposed
> to be in the kiliohms range.
>
> Towards the bottom of the following site, the procedure is
> described, with specs:
> http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...cds/en_us/0900
> 823d/80/0c/f2/cb/0900823d800cf2cb.jsp
>
>> I'd like to use OEM replacement parts but I *must* get the
>> car running
>> this weekend (she's driving MY new truck to work right
>> now!) so it'll
>> get whatever Autozone has to offer.
>
> Some fellow posted in the last year or so that for something
> like $200 for parts, he slapped a new Autozone distributor
> (housing, igniter, coil, the works) into his Honda and it
> fixed it right up.
>
> It's not a long term fix, IMO, because the OEM parts are
> superior, from my experience (91 Civic, original owner,
> myriad distributor problems) and reading here.
>
>
>

Good info you've given here,Elle. Thx!

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:LEEbh.5256$tM1.1715@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net:

> "The Reverend Natural Light" <reverend@fourthgen.org> wrote
>> Elle wrote:
>>>
>>> Specs are 0.6 to 0.8 ohms and 12,800 to 19,200 ohms,
>>> respectively, so the resistance checks suggest the coil
>>> is
>>> good.
>>>
>>
>> I measured from the high tension post to ground and it
>> read (according
>> to my highly accurate Radio Shack auto-ranging digital
>> multimeter) to
>> be completely open. That's normal? I was guessing
>> something in the
>> kiliohms range.
>
> I misread the manual, for one thing. I think what you are
> measuring is the resistance of a circuit with a capacitor in
> it. See the top drawing at
> http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id5.html. Jim Yanik
> can chime in
> here and see if I have it right now.

He said he was measuring to -ground-,which only works if the igniter is
grounding the coil,which it does not do with the car off.

(grounding the ign.coil charges it up,and ungrounding the coil afterwards
generates the spark voltage.That condenser is actually part of the HV
current path!)

Actually,on a 20K or 200K meter range,it does not matter which side of the
primary he measures to the center post(wht/blu or blk/yel to post),as the
primary is so low a resistance,the meter sees it as a short,and only
measures the High Tension(HT) side of the coil.
That's after measuring the low side of the coil so you know it's not open.
I suspect it's rare the low side (primary) of the coil has any problem.


>
> What the manual specifies to check is the resistance between
> (1) the high tension positive terminal (called terminal "A"
> in the manual, and having a black/yellow wire connecting to
> it) and (2) the secondary terminal (= the "coil tower" in
> some manuals = the part of the coil going to the distributor
> cap and plugs, etc.). It is this resistance that is supposed
> to be in the kiliohms range.
>
> Towards the bottom of the following site, the procedure is
> described, with specs:
> http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...cds/en_us/0900
> 823d/80/0c/f2/cb/0900823d800cf2cb.jsp
>
>> I'd like to use OEM replacement parts but I *must* get the
>> car running
>> this weekend (she's driving MY new truck to work right
>> now!) so it'll
>> get whatever Autozone has to offer.
>
> Some fellow posted in the last year or so that for something
> like $200 for parts, he slapped a new Autozone distributor
> (housing, igniter, coil, the works) into his Honda and it
> fixed it right up.
>
> It's not a long term fix, IMO, because the OEM parts are
> superior, from my experience (91 Civic, original owner,
> myriad distributor problems) and reading here.
>
>
>

Good info you've given here,Elle. Thx!

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
>> I thought his meter might not be able to register high
>> resistances. Maye this is erroneous on my part...
>>
>>
>>
>
> Most any meter should be able to read 200K ohms full
> scale,up to 2 megohms
> FS is very common.
>
> My $3 Harbor Freight DMM has a 2 Meg range,my 4.5 digit
> DMM goes up to 20
> Meg.My analog Simpson 270-3 goes up to 2 meg FS.

I was indeed thinking of an old analog meter my dad still
keeps around, dating from I bet the 1950s or possibly
earlier. (He bought me a digital multimeter a few years
ago.) But I haven't used his old analog enough to realize it
most likely goes up to at least the high k-ohm range. On the
third hand, I reckon it's pretty rare for anyone the least
bit handy with cars these days to be using an analog meter
these days with regularity.

Thanks for explaining all, Jim Y.

Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
>> I thought his meter might not be able to register high
>> resistances. Maye this is erroneous on my part...
>>
>>
>>
>
> Most any meter should be able to read 200K ohms full
> scale,up to 2 megohms
> FS is very common.
>
> My $3 Harbor Freight DMM has a 2 Meg range,my 4.5 digit
> DMM goes up to 20
> Meg.My analog Simpson 270-3 goes up to 2 meg FS.

I was indeed thinking of an old analog meter my dad still
keeps around, dating from I bet the 1950s or possibly
earlier. (He bought me a digital multimeter a few years
ago.) But I haven't used his old analog enough to realize it
most likely goes up to at least the high k-ohm range. On the
third hand, I reckon it's pretty rare for anyone the least
bit handy with cars these days to be using an analog meter
these days with regularity.

Thanks for explaining all, Jim Y.

Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
>> I thought his meter might not be able to register high
>> resistances. Maye this is erroneous on my part...
>>
>>
>>
>
> Most any meter should be able to read 200K ohms full
> scale,up to 2 megohms
> FS is very common.
>
> My $3 Harbor Freight DMM has a 2 Meg range,my 4.5 digit
> DMM goes up to 20
> Meg.My analog Simpson 270-3 goes up to 2 meg FS.

I was indeed thinking of an old analog meter my dad still
keeps around, dating from I bet the 1950s or possibly
earlier. (He bought me a digital multimeter a few years
ago.) But I haven't used his old analog enough to realize it
most likely goes up to at least the high k-ohm range. On the
third hand, I reckon it's pretty rare for anyone the least
bit handy with cars these days to be using an analog meter
these days with regularity.

Thanks for explaining all, Jim Y.

Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote
> Actually,on a 20K or 200K meter range,it does not matter
> which side of the
> primary he measures to the center post(wht/blu or blk/yel
> to post),as the
> primary is so low a resistance,the meter sees it as a
> short,and only
> measures the High Tension(HT) side of the coil.

From the schematic, I see your point and agree. Good lesson.
:-)

Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote
> Actually,on a 20K or 200K meter range,it does not matter
> which side of the
> primary he measures to the center post(wht/blu or blk/yel
> to post),as the
> primary is so low a resistance,the meter sees it as a
> short,and only
> measures the High Tension(HT) side of the coil.

From the schematic, I see your point and agree. Good lesson.
:-)

Re: 1991 Accord - No Start - No Spark
 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote
> Actually,on a 20K or 200K meter range,it does not matter
> which side of the
> primary he measures to the center post(wht/blu or blk/yel
> to post),as the
> primary is so low a resistance,the meter sees it as a
> short,and only
> measures the High Tension(HT) side of the coil.

From the schematic, I see your point and agree. Good lesson.
:-)