Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

> Running well hot, cold and during warmup? Good power and pickup?
>
> Was it a straight drop-in ,or did the mechanic have to monkey around with
> the brackets and fittings?
>
> Did all your engine sensors fit properly?

The replacement engine was fitted with a rebuilt distributor (with new
sensors) and a fresh timing belt. A new radiator was installed, as the
old one had the old-age corroded fin problem. The oil pressure sensor
was swapped from my old engine. No warnings, alarams, CELs -
everything seems to be running fine. It was a direct drop-in with no
modifications to the mounts, AFAIK, since the Z6 engine is from the
same model year.

There's definitely a note change between the two engines. The D15B7
sounded like an angry sewing machine. The D16Z6 actually has a more
respectable throaty growl going on.

The clown car is A/T so the acceleration gain isn't huge, but is
noticeable. The low-end torque seems to be greater. The main thing
that I've noticed is that the engine isn't working nearly as hard to
get the car up to speed. The RPMs are definitely lower. Bringing it up
to highway speed (120 - 130 km/h) is not a problem, and the vibration
level is much reduced compared to what I'm used to. Without the VTEC
wired up I didn't expect to see a speed improvement - 130 is as fast
as I feel comfortable doing in such a small car, so no loss there.
Finding a VTEC-enabled ECU and wiring up the VTEC isn't a priority,
but if I happen to find a working one at a good price, I'll certainly
go ahead with it.

We've put 200km or so on the engine since the swap, and have had only
a minor issue with a hose leak at the new radiator, which was repaired
earlier today. We're going for a good highway drive later today.

Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

> Running well hot, cold and during warmup? Good power and pickup?
>
> Was it a straight drop-in ,or did the mechanic have to monkey around with
> the brackets and fittings?
>
> Did all your engine sensors fit properly?

The replacement engine was fitted with a rebuilt distributor (with new
sensors) and a fresh timing belt. A new radiator was installed, as the
old one had the old-age corroded fin problem. The oil pressure sensor
was swapped from my old engine. No warnings, alarams, CELs -
everything seems to be running fine. It was a direct drop-in with no
modifications to the mounts, AFAIK, since the Z6 engine is from the
same model year.

There's definitely a note change between the two engines. The D15B7
sounded like an angry sewing machine. The D16Z6 actually has a more
respectable throaty growl going on.

The clown car is A/T so the acceleration gain isn't huge, but is
noticeable. The low-end torque seems to be greater. The main thing
that I've noticed is that the engine isn't working nearly as hard to
get the car up to speed. The RPMs are definitely lower. Bringing it up
to highway speed (120 - 130 km/h) is not a problem, and the vibration
level is much reduced compared to what I'm used to. Without the VTEC
wired up I didn't expect to see a speed improvement - 130 is as fast
as I feel comfortable doing in such a small car, so no loss there.
Finding a VTEC-enabled ECU and wiring up the VTEC isn't a priority,
but if I happen to find a working one at a good price, I'll certainly
go ahead with it.

We've put 200km or so on the engine since the swap, and have had only
a minor issue with a hose leak at the new radiator, which was repaired
earlier today. We're going for a good highway drive later today.

Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

madmanguruman@gmail.com wrote:
>> Running well hot, cold and during warmup? Good power and pickup?
>>
>> Was it a straight drop-in ,or did the mechanic have to monkey around with
>> the brackets and fittings?
>>
>> Did all your engine sensors fit properly?
>
> The replacement engine was fitted with a rebuilt distributor (with new
> sensors) and a fresh timing belt. A new radiator was installed, as the
> old one had the old-age corroded fin problem. The oil pressure sensor
> was swapped from my old engine. No warnings, alarams, CELs -
> everything seems to be running fine. It was a direct drop-in with no
> modifications to the mounts, AFAIK, since the Z6 engine is from the
> same model year.
>
> There's definitely a note change between the two engines. The D15B7
> sounded like an angry sewing machine. The D16Z6 actually has a more
> respectable throaty growl going on.
>
> The clown car is A/T so the acceleration gain isn't huge, but is
> noticeable. The low-end torque seems to be greater.

it will be - the low speed part of the cam is optimized for it.

> The main thing
> that I've noticed is that the engine isn't working nearly as hard to
> get the car up to speed. The RPMs are definitely lower.

now /that/ is impossible unless you also swapped the transmission!!!


> Bringing it up
> to highway speed (120 - 130 km/h) is not a problem, and the vibration
> level is much reduced compared to what I'm used to. Without the VTEC
> wired up I didn't expect to see a speed improvement - 130 is as fast
> as I feel comfortable doing in such a small car, so no loss there.
> Finding a VTEC-enabled ECU and wiring up the VTEC isn't a priority,
> but if I happen to find a working one at a good price, I'll certainly
> go ahead with it.

you should do it. the vtec cam has two profiles - low speed and high
speed. running the low cam at high speed is losing efficiency.

you can get a simple rev-triggered switch from one of the after-market
companies that will work the solenoid for you - no new ecu required.

this is not the one i had in mind, but it gives you an idea of what i mean:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...54062_-1_11553

don't switch the secondary cam at too low revs though. i think factory
is near 5krpm.


>
> We've put 200km or so on the engine since the swap, and have had only
> a minor issue with a hose leak at the new radiator, which was repaired
> earlier today. We're going for a good highway drive later today.
>

Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

madmanguruman@gmail.com wrote:
>> Running well hot, cold and during warmup? Good power and pickup?
>>
>> Was it a straight drop-in ,or did the mechanic have to monkey around with
>> the brackets and fittings?
>>
>> Did all your engine sensors fit properly?
>
> The replacement engine was fitted with a rebuilt distributor (with new
> sensors) and a fresh timing belt. A new radiator was installed, as the
> old one had the old-age corroded fin problem. The oil pressure sensor
> was swapped from my old engine. No warnings, alarams, CELs -
> everything seems to be running fine. It was a direct drop-in with no
> modifications to the mounts, AFAIK, since the Z6 engine is from the
> same model year.
>
> There's definitely a note change between the two engines. The D15B7
> sounded like an angry sewing machine. The D16Z6 actually has a more
> respectable throaty growl going on.
>
> The clown car is A/T so the acceleration gain isn't huge, but is
> noticeable. The low-end torque seems to be greater.

it will be - the low speed part of the cam is optimized for it.

> The main thing
> that I've noticed is that the engine isn't working nearly as hard to
> get the car up to speed. The RPMs are definitely lower.

now /that/ is impossible unless you also swapped the transmission!!!


> Bringing it up
> to highway speed (120 - 130 km/h) is not a problem, and the vibration
> level is much reduced compared to what I'm used to. Without the VTEC
> wired up I didn't expect to see a speed improvement - 130 is as fast
> as I feel comfortable doing in such a small car, so no loss there.
> Finding a VTEC-enabled ECU and wiring up the VTEC isn't a priority,
> but if I happen to find a working one at a good price, I'll certainly
> go ahead with it.

you should do it. the vtec cam has two profiles - low speed and high
speed. running the low cam at high speed is losing efficiency.

you can get a simple rev-triggered switch from one of the after-market
companies that will work the solenoid for you - no new ecu required.

this is not the one i had in mind, but it gives you an idea of what i mean:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...54062_-1_11553

don't switch the secondary cam at too low revs though. i think factory
is near 5krpm.


>
> We've put 200km or so on the engine since the swap, and have had only
> a minor issue with a hose leak at the new radiator, which was repaired
> earlier today. We're going for a good highway drive later today.
>

Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

> now /that/ is impossible unless you also swapped the transmission!!!

I don't believe that a transmission swap was part of the equation.

That being said, I agree that my perception that the engine isn't
revving as high at certain speeds doesn't make sense. [shrug]

> you can get a simple rev-triggered switch from one of the after-market
> companies that will work the solenoid for you - no new ecu required.

I suppose that this would be a better-than-nothing approach, but would
the cost significantly differ from a junkyard or eBay-sourced ECU?

Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

> now /that/ is impossible unless you also swapped the transmission!!!

I don't believe that a transmission swap was part of the equation.

That being said, I agree that my perception that the engine isn't
revving as high at certain speeds doesn't make sense. [shrug]

> you can get a simple rev-triggered switch from one of the after-market
> companies that will work the solenoid for you - no new ecu required.

I suppose that this would be a better-than-nothing approach, but would
the cost significantly differ from a junkyard or eBay-sourced ECU?

Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:VNidnbJ2UptzXffbnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> madmanguruman@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The main thing
>> that I've noticed is that the engine isn't working nearly as hard to
>> get the car up to speed. The RPMs are definitely lower.
>
> now /that/ is impossible unless you also swapped the transmission!!!
>
>
It's actually a function of the kickdown action and how the tranny
controller knows about engine load, the very thing that raises the
shiftpoints when the throttle is opened more. The engine doesn't work as
hard one way or another, and the controller decides it is time to upshift to
give the engine better load.

Mike

Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:VNidnbJ2UptzXffbnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> madmanguruman@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The main thing
>> that I've noticed is that the engine isn't working nearly as hard to
>> get the car up to speed. The RPMs are definitely lower.
>
> now /that/ is impossible unless you also swapped the transmission!!!
>
>
It's actually a function of the kickdown action and how the tranny
controller knows about engine load, the very thing that raises the
shiftpoints when the throttle is opened more. The engine doesn't work as
hard one way or another, and the controller decides it is time to upshift to
give the engine better load.

Mike

Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

madmanguruman@gmail.com wrote:
>> now /that/ is impossible unless you also swapped the transmission!!!
>
> I don't believe that a transmission swap was part of the equation.
>
> That being said, I agree that my perception that the engine isn't
> revving as high at certain speeds doesn't make sense. [shrug]
>
>> you can get a simple rev-triggered switch from one of the after-market
>> companies that will work the solenoid for you - no new ecu required.
>
> I suppose that this would be a better-than-nothing approach, but would
> the cost significantly differ from a junkyard or eBay-sourced ECU?
>
junkyard ecu's are uber-cheap - $40 in my neck of the woods. but they
can be apita to wire if you existing wiring harness doesn't accommodate
the upgrade. and it won't.

on that basis, there's a strong argument for the after-market switch.
but if there's any change in engine mapping [and i don't know if there
is] that goes with the vtec ecu, vtec ecu is the better way to go.

Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

madmanguruman@gmail.com wrote:
>> now /that/ is impossible unless you also swapped the transmission!!!
>
> I don't believe that a transmission swap was part of the equation.
>
> That being said, I agree that my perception that the engine isn't
> revving as high at certain speeds doesn't make sense. [shrug]
>
>> you can get a simple rev-triggered switch from one of the after-market
>> companies that will work the solenoid for you - no new ecu required.
>
> I suppose that this would be a better-than-nothing approach, but would
> the cost significantly differ from a junkyard or eBay-sourced ECU?
>
junkyard ecu's are uber-cheap - $40 in my neck of the woods. but they
can be apita to wire if you existing wiring harness doesn't accommodate
the upgrade. and it won't.

on that basis, there's a strong argument for the after-market switch.
but if there's any change in engine mapping [and i don't know if there
is] that goes with the vtec ecu, vtec ecu is the better way to go.

Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:VNidnbJ2UptzXffbnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> madmanguruman@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The main thing
>>> that I've noticed is that the engine isn't working nearly as hard to
>>> get the car up to speed. The RPMs are definitely lower.
>> now /that/ is impossible unless you also swapped the transmission!!!
>>
>>
> It's actually a function of the kickdown action and how the tranny
> controller knows about engine load, the very thing that raises the
> shiftpoints when the throttle is opened more. The engine doesn't work as
> hard one way or another, and the controller decides it is time to upshift to
> give the engine better load.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
if it's automatic. cruising speed won't have different revs.

Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:VNidnbJ2UptzXffbnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> madmanguruman@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The main thing
>>> that I've noticed is that the engine isn't working nearly as hard to
>>> get the car up to speed. The RPMs are definitely lower.
>> now /that/ is impossible unless you also swapped the transmission!!!
>>
>>
> It's actually a function of the kickdown action and how the tranny
> controller knows about engine load, the very thing that raises the
> shiftpoints when the throttle is opened more. The engine doesn't work as
> hard one way or another, and the controller decides it is time to upshift to
> give the engine better load.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
if it's automatic. cruising speed won't have different revs.

Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:yM-dnSMyS4pPT_fbnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:VNidnbJ2UptzXffbnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> madmanguruman@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> The main thing
>>>> that I've noticed is that the engine isn't working nearly as hard to
>>>> get the car up to speed. The RPMs are definitely lower.
>>> now /that/ is impossible unless you also swapped the transmission!!!
>>>
>>>
>> It's actually a function of the kickdown action and how the tranny
>> controller knows about engine load, the very thing that raises the
>> shiftpoints when the throttle is opened more. The engine doesn't work as
>> hard one way or another, and the controller decides it is time to upshift
>> to give the engine better load.
>>
>> Mike
> if it's automatic. cruising speed won't have different revs.
>
Right. The shift points will change (assuming an AT, otherwise it's up to
the driver), but not the revs at any given speed.

Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:yM-dnSMyS4pPT_fbnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:VNidnbJ2UptzXffbnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> madmanguruman@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> The main thing
>>>> that I've noticed is that the engine isn't working nearly as hard to
>>>> get the car up to speed. The RPMs are definitely lower.
>>> now /that/ is impossible unless you also swapped the transmission!!!
>>>
>>>
>> It's actually a function of the kickdown action and how the tranny
>> controller knows about engine load, the very thing that raises the
>> shiftpoints when the throttle is opened more. The engine doesn't work as
>> hard one way or another, and the controller decides it is time to upshift
>> to give the engine better load.
>>
>> Mike
> if it's automatic. cruising speed won't have different revs.
>
Right. The shift points will change (assuming an AT, otherwise it's up to
the driver), but not the revs at any given speed.

Re: '93 Civic CX - DIED in parking lot?!?
 

On Jun 9, 11:02 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> madmanguru...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Running well hot, cold and during warmup? Good power and pickup?
>
> >> Was it a straight drop-in ,or did the mechanic have to monkey around with
> >> the brackets and fittings?
>
> >> Did all your engine sensors fit properly?
>
> > The replacement engine was fitted with a rebuilt distributor (with new
> > sensors) and a fresh timing belt. A new radiator was installed, as the
> > old one had the old-age corroded fin problem. The oil pressure sensor
> > was swapped from my old engine. No warnings, alarams, CELs -
> > everything seems to be running fine. It was a direct drop-in with no
> > modifications to the mounts, AFAIK, since the Z6 engine is from the
> > same model year.
>
> > There's definitely a note change between the two engines. The D15B7
> > sounded like an angry sewing machine. The D16Z6 actually has a more
> > respectable throaty growl going on.
>
> > The clown car is A/T so the acceleration gain isn't huge, but is
> > noticeable. The low-end torque seems to be greater.
>
> it will be - the low speed part of the cam is optimized for it.
>
> > The main thing
> > that I've noticed is that the engine isn't working nearly as hard to
> > get the car up to speed. The RPMs are definitely lower.
>
> now /that/ is impossible unless you also swapped the transmission!!!
>
> > Bringing it up
> > to highway speed (120 - 130 km/h) is not a problem, and the vibration
> > level is much reduced compared to what I'm used to. Without the VTEC
> > wired up I didn't expect to see a speed improvement - 130 is as fast
> > as I feel comfortable doing in such a small car, so no loss there.
> > Finding a VTEC-enabled ECU and wiring up the VTEC isn't a priority,
> > but if I happen to find a working one at a good price, I'll certainly
> > go ahead with it.
>
> you should do it. the vtec cam has two profiles - low speed and high
> speed. running the low cam at high speed is losing efficiency.
>
> you can get a simple rev-triggered switch from one of the after-market
> companies that will work the solenoid for you - no new ecu required.
>
> this is not the one i had in mind, but it gives you an idea of what i mean:http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...0001_10002_754...
>
> don't switch the secondary cam at too low revs though. i think factory
> is near 5krpm.
>
>
>
> > We've put 200km or so on the engine since the swap, and have had only
> > a minor issue with a hose leak at the new radiator, which was repaired
> > earlier today. We're going for a good highway drive later today.

900km with no problems.

I noticed that the oil pressure light takes around 2 seconds to turn
off after starting the engine. It never comes on during normal
operation.