robb

damn beam jinxed my car :P

Ok, forget the emissions for now... the damn car died on me
today.

'93 Civic Si , manual transmission.

I was sitting at a stop light. Light goes green and i try to go.
The car stumbles a bit like trying to start from dead stop in
second gear. I do a quick shift check to first gear (it was in
first). I rev it a bit and then get going. About 50 ft after
that turn it justs bogs out (buuuuuhhhhhhh).

I pushed clutch and step on gas nothing... its dead... no tach,
alot of idiot lights on (but i can't remember which) so i coast
into parking lot. I try to re-start. The engine is turning over
nicely but no hint of starting , no coughing, no sputtering or
any signs of firing. So i check the security dongle and watch
all the lights.

The dash lights behave as usuall, they light up i get some beeps
(6 or 8) and all the lights go off.

All the big fuses under the hood look fine.


The ignitor failed on me a couple of years ago with a similar
death but i was on the highway going 60 and i had more time to
just coast along and watch what was going on. I replace the
ignitor with Honda ignitor then.

I checked (pulled and opened) the Main Relay at that time to
check for that old style relay that required re-soldering but the
inside of mine did not look like those that needed the re-solder
job so i presumed it was ok.

So what is run down. Check for fire? then do an ignitor check if
no fire ?

is there a quick outline on how to narrow this problem down.

thanks for any helpful advice ,

robb

jim beam

robb wrote:
> damn beam jinxed my car :P
>
> Ok, forget the emissions for now... the damn car died on me
> today.
>
> '93 Civic Si , manual transmission.
>
> I was sitting at a stop light. Light goes green and i try to go.
> The car stumbles a bit like trying to start from dead stop in
> second gear. I do a quick shift check to first gear (it was in
> first). I rev it a bit and then get going. About 50 ft after
> that turn it justs bogs out (buuuuuhhhhhhh).
>
> I pushed clutch and step on gas nothing... its dead... no tach,
> alot of idiot lights on (but i can't remember which) so i coast
> into parking lot. I try to re-start. The engine is turning over
> nicely but no hint of starting , no coughing, no sputtering or
> any signs of firing. So i check the security dongle and watch
> all the lights.
>
> The dash lights behave as usuall, they light up i get some beeps
> (6 or 8) and all the lights go off.
>
> All the big fuses under the hood look fine.
>
>
> The ignitor failed on me a couple of years ago with a similar
> death but i was on the highway going 60 and i had more time to
> just coast along and watch what was going on. I replace the
> ignitor with Honda ignitor then.
>
> I checked (pulled and opened) the Main Relay at that time to
> check for that old style relay that required re-soldering but the
> inside of mine did not look like those that needed the re-solder
> job so i presumed it was ok.
>
> So what is run down. Check for fire? then do an ignitor check if
> no fire ?
>
> is there a quick outline on how to narrow this problem down.
>
> thanks for any helpful advice ,
>
> robb
>

yeah, google this group. and check tegger.com's faq's. difficulty
getting a tach reading on your emissions test should give you a clue.

Tony Hwang

robb wrote:
> damn beam jinxed my car :P
>
> Ok, forget the emissions for now... the damn car died on me
> today.
>
> '93 Civic Si , manual transmission.
>
> I was sitting at a stop light. Light goes green and i try to go.
> The car stumbles a bit like trying to start from dead stop in
> second gear. I do a quick shift check to first gear (it was in
> first). I rev it a bit and then get going. About 50 ft after
> that turn it justs bogs out (buuuuuhhhhhhh).
>
> I pushed clutch and step on gas nothing... its dead... no tach,
> alot of idiot lights on (but i can't remember which) so i coast
> into parking lot. I try to re-start. The engine is turning over
> nicely but no hint of starting , no coughing, no sputtering or
> any signs of firing. So i check the security dongle and watch
> all the lights.
>
> The dash lights behave as usuall, they light up i get some beeps
> (6 or 8) and all the lights go off.
>
> All the big fuses under the hood look fine.
>
>
> The ignitor failed on me a couple of years ago with a similar
> death but i was on the highway going 60 and i had more time to
> just coast along and watch what was going on. I replace the
> ignitor with Honda ignitor then.
>
> I checked (pulled and opened) the Main Relay at that time to
> check for that old style relay that required re-soldering but the
> inside of mine did not look like those that needed the re-solder
> job so i presumed it was ok.
>
> So what is run down. Check for fire? then do an ignitor check if
> no fire ?
>
> is there a quick outline on how to narrow this problem down.
>
> thanks for any helpful advice ,
>
> robb
>
Hmm,
When did you have the timing belt replaced?

robb

"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Bd-dnTPh6PrqZLzXnZ2dnUVZ_hZi4p2d@speakeasy.net...
> robb wrote:
> > damn beam jinxed my car :P
> >
> > Ok, forget the emissions for now... the damn car died on me
> > today.
> >
[trim]
>
> yeah, google this group. and check tegger.com's faq's.
difficulty
> getting a tach reading on your emissions test should give you a
clue.
>

Thanks Jim,

don't tell me you guys might have predicted this

robb

robb

"Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:3cnUl.86917$uD3.79972@newsfe20.iad...
> robb wrote:
> > Ok, forget the emissions for now... the damn car died on me
> > today.
> >
> > '93 Civic Si , manual transmission.
> >
> > I was sitting at a stop light. Light goes green and i try to
go.
> > The car stumbles a bit like trying to start from dead stop in
> > second gear. I do a quick shift check to first gear (it was
in
> > first). I rev it a bit and then get going. About 50 ft after
> > that turn it justs bogs out (buuuuuhhhhhhh).
[trim]
> >
> Hmm,
> When did you have the timing belt replaced?
>

Thanks Tony,
*but please* let me hope not, it is an interference engine i
believe.
It has been replaced and doesn't have the miles but it may have
the years (maybe 50K and 7-8-9 years) what are you thinking ?
slipped some cogs ?
I do not think it is broken i would have heard some terrible
noises ? correct ?

i hope it is something more benign from researching jim's
suggestion
robb

Tegger

"robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
news:dJWdnZbiYbzMR7zXnZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@earthlink.co m:

> damn beam jinxed my car :P
>
> Ok, forget the emissions for now... the damn car died on me
> today.
>
> '93 Civic Si , manual transmission.
>
> I was sitting at a stop light. Light goes green and i try to go.
> The car stumbles a bit like trying to start from dead stop in
> second gear. I do a quick shift check to first gear (it was in
> first). I rev it a bit and then get going. About 50 ft after
> that turn it justs bogs out (buuuuuhhhhhhh).
>
>



When you crank and the car won't start, is the tach needle dead-still, or
does it jiggle ever so slightly?

Is this an OEM tach or an aftermarket add-on?


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Jim Yanik

"robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
news:dJWdnZbiYbzMR7zXnZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@earthlink.co m:

> damn beam jinxed my car :P
>
> Ok, forget the emissions for now... the damn car died on me
> today.
>
> '93 Civic Si , manual transmission.
>
> I was sitting at a stop light. Light goes green and i try to go.
> The car stumbles a bit like trying to start from dead stop in
> second gear. I do a quick shift check to first gear (it was in
> first). I rev it a bit and then get going. About 50 ft after
> that turn it justs bogs out (buuuuuhhhhhhh).
>
> I pushed clutch and step on gas nothing... its dead... no tach,
> alot of idiot lights on (but i can't remember which) so i coast
> into parking lot. I try to re-start. The engine is turning over
> nicely but no hint of starting , no coughing, no sputtering or
> any signs of firing. So i check the security dongle and watch
> all the lights.
>
> The dash lights behave as usuall, they light up i get some beeps
> (6 or 8) and all the lights go off.
>
> All the big fuses under the hood look fine.
>
>
> The ignitor failed on me a couple of years ago with a similar
> death but i was on the highway going 60 and i had more time to
> just coast along and watch what was going on. I replace the
> ignitor with Honda ignitor then.
>
> I checked (pulled and opened) the Main Relay at that time to
> check for that old style relay that required re-soldering but the
> inside of mine did not look like those that needed the re-solder
> job so i presumed it was ok.
>
> So what is run down. Check for fire? then do an ignitor check if
> no fire ?
>
> is there a quick outline on how to narrow this problem down.
>
> thanks for any helpful advice ,
>
> robb
>

as long as you had the relay out,you should have resoldered it.
Then you would KNOW it's not a problem.

as others have posted,tegger's site is excellent.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

robb

"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9C1C5FB38A19Ftegger@208.90.168.18...
> "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
> news:dJWdnZbiYbzMR7zXnZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@earthlink.co m:
> >
> > Ok, forget the emissions for now... the damn car died on me
> > today.
> > '93 Civic Si , manual transmission.
> > I was sitting at a stop light. Light goes green and i try to
go.
> > The car stumbles a bit like trying to start from dead stop in
> > second gear. I do a quick shift check to first gear (it was
in
> > first). I rev it a bit and then get going. About 50 ft after
> > that turn it justs bogs out (buuuuuhhhhhhh).
> >
> When you crank and the car won't start, is the tach needle
dead-still, or
> does it jiggle ever so slightly?
>
> Is this an OEM tach or an aftermarket add-on?
> Tegger
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Thanks for help Tegger,

To answer your questions i could not see any quivering in the
tach meter needle .
It is the OEM (came with the car when i purchased new)
tachometer.

I downloaded your FAQ "cars goes chugga-chugga but no fire or
catch" troubleshooting guide and was able to solve the problem.

have a guess ? solution in next post

Thanks for the help,
robb

robb

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9C1C614866B58jyanikkuanet@74.209.136.85...
> "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
> news:dJWdnZbiYbzMR7zXnZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@earthlink.co m:
>
> > Ok, forget the emissions for now... the damn car died on me
> > today.
> >
> > '93 Civic Si , manual transmission.
> >
> > I rev it a bit and then get going. About 50 ft after
> > that turn it justs bogs out (buuuuuhhhhhhh).
> >
> > I checked (pulled and opened) the Main Relay at that time to
> > check for that old style relay that required re-soldering but
the
> > inside of mine did not look like those that needed the
re-solder
> > job so i presumed it was ok.

[trimed]

> as long as you had the relay out,you should have resoldered it.
> Then you would KNOW it's not a problem.
> as others have posted,tegger's site is excellent
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
>

I was planning to resolder the joints (when i removed) but if i
recall there were two or three versions of the Main Relay and
only one was consistently suspect. And my recollection was that
the solder joints in the bad relay (crack or not) looked bad or
cold and should be redone.

My relay had a very different looking circuit board than the
suspicious one and the solder joints looked so good that any
resoldering would only have made them worse espeacially from an
amateur solderer like me.

I used tegger's site to solve the trouble, do you have a guess ?
solution in next post

thanks
robb

robb

"robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in message
news:dJWdnZbiYbzMR7zXnZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@earthlink.co m...
>
> Ok, forget the emissions for now... the damn car died on me
> today.
>
> '93 Civic Si , manual transmission.
>
> The car stumbles a bit like trying to start from dead stop in
> second gear. I rev it a bit and then get going. About 50 ft
after
> that it justs bogs out with a (buuuuuhhhhhhh).
>
> I try to re-start. The engine is turning over nicely but
> no hint of starting , no coughing, no sputtering or
> any signs of firing.
>
> The dash lights behave as usuall, they light up i get some
beeps
> (6 or 8) and all the lights go off.
>
> All the big fuses under the hood look fine.
>
> The ignitor failed on me a couple of years ago with a similar
> death I replace the ignitor then with Honda ignitor.
>
> When i replaced the ignitor I checked (pulled and opened) the
> Main Relay at that time to check for that old style relay that
> required re-soldering but the soldering looked
> really good so i presumed it was ok.
>

Thanks to all (tegger, ben, jim b, jim Y, tony) for helping,

jim beam gets a (A+ for helping and a B- for action) he could
have predicted this failure if he believed my emissions story.

So, I downloaded tegger's troubleshooting guide and `was able to
solve the problem in short order.

Did all the easy tests first.

ECU check engine code (nothing).
Check timing belt breakage. (ok)
Main Relay test. (3 clicks)
Listen for fuel pump pressurize. (sounds good)
Test the spark generation ......

Pulled wire and put an old plug in and grounded to engine. Can't
see or hear a spark ( but it is 12 noon super bright and hot
out). Try to get some darkness no luck. So what the hell i bump
fingers across the plug end while grounding that same hand and
get a tingle. Lay fingers across plug and ground that hand and
only get a tingle. Weak spark ?

Weak spark = bad coil ? yes ?

Well i check the resistance on the wires (16K ohms) and the rotor
(no resistance). So i test coil and get 8K ohms across secondary
winding (should be 13-19 K ohms ) I clean deposits off cap
terminals and rotor edge re-install and same problem.

SOLUTION: Replace coil and it fires right up.

I guess the emmisions test problem was in the midst of the coil
weakening failing ?

QUESTION : Is there any thing else that needs to be checked that
might have caused the coil to fail ??

thanks again to all the helpers,
robb

Jim Yanik

"robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
news:Nqadncme1pLler7XnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@earthlink.co m:

>
> "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in message
> news:dJWdnZbiYbzMR7zXnZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@earthlink.co m...
>>
>> Ok, forget the emissions for now... the damn car died on me
>> today.
>>
>> '93 Civic Si , manual transmission.
>>
>> The car stumbles a bit like trying to start from dead stop in
>> second gear. I rev it a bit and then get going. About 50 ft
> after
>> that it justs bogs out with a (buuuuuhhhhhhh).
>>
>> I try to re-start. The engine is turning over nicely but
>> no hint of starting , no coughing, no sputtering or
>> any signs of firing.
>>
>> The dash lights behave as usuall, they light up i get some
> beeps
>> (6 or 8) and all the lights go off.
>>
>> All the big fuses under the hood look fine.
>>
>> The ignitor failed on me a couple of years ago with a similar
>> death I replace the ignitor then with Honda ignitor.
>>
>> When i replaced the ignitor I checked (pulled and opened) the
>> Main Relay at that time to check for that old style relay that
>> required re-soldering but the soldering looked
>> really good so i presumed it was ok.
>>
>
> Thanks to all (tegger, ben, jim b, jim Y, tony) for helping,
>
> jim beam gets a (A+ for helping and a B- for action) he could
> have predicted this failure if he believed my emissions story.
>
> So, I downloaded tegger's troubleshooting guide and `was able to
> solve the problem in short order.
>
> Did all the easy tests first.
>
> ECU check engine code (nothing).
> Check timing belt breakage. (ok)
> Main Relay test. (3 clicks)
> Listen for fuel pump pressurize. (sounds good)
> Test the spark generation ......
>
> Pulled wire and put an old plug in and grounded to engine. Can't
> see or hear a spark ( but it is 12 noon super bright and hot
> out). Try to get some darkness no luck. So what the hell i bump
> fingers across the plug end while grounding that same hand and
> get a tingle. Lay fingers across plug and ground that hand and
> only get a tingle. Weak spark ?
>
> Weak spark = bad coil ? yes ?
>
> Well i check the resistance on the wires (16K ohms) and the rotor
> (no resistance). So i test coil and get 8K ohms across secondary
> winding (should be 13-19 K ohms ) I clean deposits off cap
> terminals and rotor edge re-install and same problem.
>
> SOLUTION: Replace coil and it fires right up.
>
> I guess the emmisions test problem was in the midst of the coil
> weakening failing ?

That could do it,yes.
missing plugs will not burn the fuel/air mixture,and increases the
hydrocarbon output.The cat may not handle it all.
>
> QUESTION : Is there any thing else that needs to be checked that
> might have caused the coil to fail ??
>
> thanks again to all the helpers,
> robb
>
>

plug wires insulation breaking down will shorten a coil's life.
Also a worn dist.cap/rotor.
I don't recall if you had already replaced those.

Good that you found the problem and fixed it! Happy motoring!

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Tegger

"robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote in
news:Nqadncme1pLler7XnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@earthlink.co m:


<snip>


>
> Weak spark = bad coil ? yes ?
>
> Well i check the resistance on the wires (16K ohms) and the rotor
> (no resistance). So i test coil and get 8K ohms across secondary
> winding (should be 13-19 K ohms ) I clean deposits off cap
> terminals and rotor edge re-install and same problem.
>
> SOLUTION: Replace coil and it fires right up.




This is why I asked about the tach needle. You reported a dead-still needle
when cranking, which is usually the igniter. I guess there are exceptions
to that rule.



> I guess the emmisions test problem was in the midst of the coil
> weakening failing ?



It's possible, yes. HCs are just raw gas. Poor spark will result in raw gas
getting dumped into the exhaust for the test machine to find.



>
> QUESTION : Is there any thing else that needs to be checked that
> might have caused the coil to fail ??


What Jim Yanik said.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Dillon Pyron

Thus spake "robb" <some@where.on.net> :

>
>"Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>news:3cnUl.86917$uD3.79972@newsfe20.iad...
>> robb wrote:
>> > Ok, forget the emissions for now... the damn car died on me
>> > today.
>> >
>> > '93 Civic Si , manual transmission.
>> >
>> > I was sitting at a stop light. Light goes green and i try to
>go.
>> > The car stumbles a bit like trying to start from dead stop in
>> > second gear. I do a quick shift check to first gear (it was
>in
>> > first). I rev it a bit and then get going. About 50 ft after
>> > that turn it justs bogs out (buuuuuhhhhhhh).
>[trim]
>> >
>> Hmm,
>> When did you have the timing belt replaced?
>>
>
>Thanks Tony,
>*but please* let me hope not, it is an interference engine i
>believe.
>It has been replaced and doesn't have the miles but it may have
>the years (maybe 50K and 7-8-9 years) what are you thinking ?
>slipped some cogs ?

Miles or years, miles or years. My 96 Civic had its belt replaced at
about 65K, but 8 years.

>I do not think it is broken i would have heard some terrible
>noises ? correct ?

Yeah. If it's turning over, you might try smelling for gas out the
exhaust pipe. Since it isn't firing, you should be getting some raw
gas. None? Fuel pump. Smells? Look at your distributor. As in the
gear. I can't remember back that far, does that car have an ignition
system hooked up to the cam?

>
>i hope it is something more benign from researching jim's
>suggestion

You know, I had a friend say something about "hoping it's something
benign". She's now a three year survivor.

>robb
>
>
>
>
--

- dillon I am not invalid

Approximately 75,000 years ago, the supervolcano Toba
erupted, In 24 hours, it ejected enough material to fill
the area inside the DC Beltway over a kilometer deep.
Good idea, bad timing,