Re: Additives worth the price?
 

Roy Starrin wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:58:24 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Just walk away from all that crap. Use good quality fuel like one of
>>the Top-Tier brands ...
>
> That takes me to my prime question since I bought my new Civic last
> week (and gave the '88 to charity). What the hell is MMT and top tier
> gas?
> This is the Top tier gas site: http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html
> and this is an article about top tier gas
> http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...s_you_use.html
> I always ran AMOCO, now BP, high test in my old civic. My chief
> engineer always ran it in all his cars as he said it kept them
> cleaner.
> But, I digress...
> I intended to follow Honda's advice an burn regular as a cost cutting
> measure (but not at the expense of the car). Now I see I cannot,
> according to Honda, use BP at all---while Ford is recommending it for
> their cars.
> Among the gasolines listed on the sites above, here in Virginia Beach,
> I can find a Shell station if I look for it. We have BP, Exxon,
> Texaco. Some of the other brands on the list may be available
> locally, but a cursory exam of phone book doesn't reveal them
> TIA
> sign me
> //Confused//
>
if you're using high octane in a civic, unless it's got a high
compression engine like an sir, you're wasting a lot of money. energy
content of high and low octane is pretty much the same, [not exactly,
but good enough], but there's /big/ differences in combustion speed. if
you're using high octane in an engine tunes for low octane, mixture is
not burning fast enough for the ignition timing, so still-burning
mixture is going out of the exhaust - an utter waste of energy and
money. stick to regular - it's what the engine is tuned for, just like
it says in the manual.

Re: Additives worth the price?
 

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:56:51 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
wrote:

>Roy Starrin wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:58:24 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Just walk away from all that crap. Use good quality fuel like one of
>>>the Top-Tier brands ...

>> This is the Top tier gas site: http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html
>> and this is an article about top tier gas
>> http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...s_you_use.html
>
>if you're using high octane in a civic, unless it's got a high
>compression engine like an sir, you're wasting a lot of money. energy
>content of high and low octane is pretty much the same, [not exactly,
>but good enough], but there's /big/ differences in combustion speed. if
>you're using high octane in an engine tunes for low octane, mixture is
>not burning fast enough for the ignition timing, so still-burning
>mixture is going out of the exhaust - an utter waste of energy and
>money. stick to regular - it's what the engine is tuned for, just like
>it says in the manual.

O.K. I accept that. The real problem I'm having is this bit about
MMT and Top Tier gas. Or, now that I am burning regular in my new
Civic, it appears, at least in the largest city in the state, that my
choices are Shell, Shell and Shell.
Yet, did you see in a following thread where her Honda dealer a $100
gas card with her car purchase---for Exxon-Mobil---not a Top Tier gas.
Either Honda has us, Don Quioxte-like, tilting at windmills, or they
have forgotten to tell their dealers what their intent is. I'm sure
they are steering clear of naming some particular gas (es) as they
don't want to offend any of the major refiners.
Let's just leave the car buyer in the lurch instead, trying to fgure
out their policies. Maybe it's like when I was on active
duty---there's no reason for it, it's just our policy

Re: Additives worth the price?
 

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:56:51 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
wrote:

>Roy Starrin wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:58:24 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Just walk away from all that crap. Use good quality fuel like one of
>>>the Top-Tier brands ...

>> This is the Top tier gas site: http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html
>> and this is an article about top tier gas
>> http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...s_you_use.html
>
>if you're using high octane in a civic, unless it's got a high
>compression engine like an sir, you're wasting a lot of money. energy
>content of high and low octane is pretty much the same, [not exactly,
>but good enough], but there's /big/ differences in combustion speed. if
>you're using high octane in an engine tunes for low octane, mixture is
>not burning fast enough for the ignition timing, so still-burning
>mixture is going out of the exhaust - an utter waste of energy and
>money. stick to regular - it's what the engine is tuned for, just like
>it says in the manual.

O.K. I accept that. The real problem I'm having is this bit about
MMT and Top Tier gas. Or, now that I am burning regular in my new
Civic, it appears, at least in the largest city in the state, that my
choices are Shell, Shell and Shell.
Yet, did you see in a following thread where her Honda dealer a $100
gas card with her car purchase---for Exxon-Mobil---not a Top Tier gas.
Either Honda has us, Don Quioxte-like, tilting at windmills, or they
have forgotten to tell their dealers what their intent is. I'm sure
they are steering clear of naming some particular gas (es) as they
don't want to offend any of the major refiners.
Let's just leave the car buyer in the lurch instead, trying to fgure
out their policies. Maybe it's like when I was on active
duty---there's no reason for it, it's just our policy

Re: Additives worth the price?
 

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:56:51 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
wrote:

>Roy Starrin wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:58:24 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Just walk away from all that crap. Use good quality fuel like one of
>>>the Top-Tier brands ...

>> This is the Top tier gas site: http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html
>> and this is an article about top tier gas
>> http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...s_you_use.html
>
>if you're using high octane in a civic, unless it's got a high
>compression engine like an sir, you're wasting a lot of money. energy
>content of high and low octane is pretty much the same, [not exactly,
>but good enough], but there's /big/ differences in combustion speed. if
>you're using high octane in an engine tunes for low octane, mixture is
>not burning fast enough for the ignition timing, so still-burning
>mixture is going out of the exhaust - an utter waste of energy and
>money. stick to regular - it's what the engine is tuned for, just like
>it says in the manual.

O.K. I accept that. The real problem I'm having is this bit about
MMT and Top Tier gas. Or, now that I am burning regular in my new
Civic, it appears, at least in the largest city in the state, that my
choices are Shell, Shell and Shell.
Yet, did you see in a following thread where her Honda dealer a $100
gas card with her car purchase---for Exxon-Mobil---not a Top Tier gas.
Either Honda has us, Don Quioxte-like, tilting at windmills, or they
have forgotten to tell their dealers what their intent is. I'm sure
they are steering clear of naming some particular gas (es) as they
don't want to offend any of the major refiners.
Let's just leave the car buyer in the lurch instead, trying to fgure
out their policies. Maybe it's like when I was on active
duty---there's no reason for it, it's just our policy

Re: Additives worth the price?
 

Roy Starrin wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:58:24 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Just walk away from all that crap. Use good quality fuel like one of
>>the Top-Tier brands ...
>
> That takes me to my prime question since I bought my new Civic last
> week (and gave the '88 to charity). What the hell is MMT and top tier
> gas?


MMT is an additive which I don't think has ever been used in the US but
is or was used in Canada. Unless you are driving in Canada you have
nothing to worry about with MMT.

Top Tier gas supposedly means higher detergent levels are assured.
Other fuels might be just as good, might be better or might be worse.

Confusing, eh?

If you stick with major brand fuels you are probably never going to have
a fuel related problem.

John

Re: Additives worth the price?
 

Roy Starrin wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:58:24 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Just walk away from all that crap. Use good quality fuel like one of
>>the Top-Tier brands ...
>
> That takes me to my prime question since I bought my new Civic last
> week (and gave the '88 to charity). What the hell is MMT and top tier
> gas?


MMT is an additive which I don't think has ever been used in the US but
is or was used in Canada. Unless you are driving in Canada you have
nothing to worry about with MMT.

Top Tier gas supposedly means higher detergent levels are assured.
Other fuels might be just as good, might be better or might be worse.

Confusing, eh?

If you stick with major brand fuels you are probably never going to have
a fuel related problem.

John

Re: Additives worth the price?
 

Roy Starrin wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:58:24 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Just walk away from all that crap. Use good quality fuel like one of
>>the Top-Tier brands ...
>
> That takes me to my prime question since I bought my new Civic last
> week (and gave the '88 to charity). What the hell is MMT and top tier
> gas?


MMT is an additive which I don't think has ever been used in the US but
is or was used in Canada. Unless you are driving in Canada you have
nothing to worry about with MMT.

Top Tier gas supposedly means higher detergent levels are assured.
Other fuels might be just as good, might be better or might be worse.

Confusing, eh?

If you stick with major brand fuels you are probably never going to have
a fuel related problem.

John

Re: Additives worth the price?
 

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:07:54 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Confusing, eh?
>
>If you stick with major brand fuels you are probably never going to have
>a fuel related problem.
And it says this in writing I can take to Honda when the engine
expires---where???
Well, I got my post-purchase phone call from Honda coporate yesterday,
so I dropped the ball in their lap. Won't make a difference, but it
made me feel better.
Maybe "bad press" will help. I help edit an online newspaper.

Re: Additives worth the price?
 

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:07:54 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Confusing, eh?
>
>If you stick with major brand fuels you are probably never going to have
>a fuel related problem.
And it says this in writing I can take to Honda when the engine
expires---where???
Well, I got my post-purchase phone call from Honda coporate yesterday,
so I dropped the ball in their lap. Won't make a difference, but it
made me feel better.
Maybe "bad press" will help. I help edit an online newspaper.

Re: Additives worth the price?
 

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:07:54 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Confusing, eh?
>
>If you stick with major brand fuels you are probably never going to have
>a fuel related problem.
And it says this in writing I can take to Honda when the engine
expires---where???
Well, I got my post-purchase phone call from Honda coporate yesterday,
so I dropped the ball in their lap. Won't make a difference, but it
made me feel better.
Maybe "bad press" will help. I help edit an online newspaper.

Re: Additives worth the price?
 

Roy Starrin wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:07:54 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Confusing, eh?
>>
>>If you stick with major brand fuels you are probably never going to have
>>a fuel related problem.
>
> And it says this in writing I can take to Honda when the engine
> expires---where???

Uh, why exactly did you post your question on usenet? Did you want
honest opinion, or do you just want to think like a lawyer and wring
your virtual hands?

John

Re: Additives worth the price?
 

Roy Starrin wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:07:54 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Confusing, eh?
>>
>>If you stick with major brand fuels you are probably never going to have
>>a fuel related problem.
>
> And it says this in writing I can take to Honda when the engine
> expires---where???

Uh, why exactly did you post your question on usenet? Did you want
honest opinion, or do you just want to think like a lawyer and wring
your virtual hands?

John

Re: Additives worth the price?
 

Roy Starrin wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:07:54 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Confusing, eh?
>>
>>If you stick with major brand fuels you are probably never going to have
>>a fuel related problem.
>
> And it says this in writing I can take to Honda when the engine
> expires---where???

Uh, why exactly did you post your question on usenet? Did you want
honest opinion, or do you just want to think like a lawyer and wring
your virtual hands?

John

Re: Additives worth the price?
 

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 04:17:28 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>>>If you stick with major brand fuels you are probably never going to have
>>>a fuel related problem.
>>
>> And it says this in writing I can take to Honda when the engine
>> expires---where???
>
>Uh, why exactly did you post your question on usenet? Did you want
>honest opinion, or do you just want to think like a lawyer and wring
>your virtual hands?
I value any opinion.
So, I just got off the phone with American Honda customer service in
L.A. Recognizing that this young lady had to get up at 4 a.m. to get
to work so they could open their lines at 6 a.m. L.A. time, so that
they could talk to us on the east Coast, I am going to attempt to
reflect she said:
The list of fuel providers as reflected in the sites I cited in my
first post is correct. There are no additions.
If using something else, one cannot expect as good gas mileage, and
prolonged use of non list refiners "could damage the engine"
Her recommendation was to follow the list, and that if I had to go
with a non-listed provider, to shift back to a listed provider as soon
as possible.
So, all you folks with 2006 Civics (and others listed by Honda) plus
BMW, GM and Honda, this is another opinion - and in the case of Honda,
the corporate opinion.

Re: Additives worth the price?
 

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 04:17:28 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>>>If you stick with major brand fuels you are probably never going to have
>>>a fuel related problem.
>>
>> And it says this in writing I can take to Honda when the engine
>> expires---where???
>
>Uh, why exactly did you post your question on usenet? Did you want
>honest opinion, or do you just want to think like a lawyer and wring
>your virtual hands?
I value any opinion.
So, I just got off the phone with American Honda customer service in
L.A. Recognizing that this young lady had to get up at 4 a.m. to get
to work so they could open their lines at 6 a.m. L.A. time, so that
they could talk to us on the east Coast, I am going to attempt to
reflect she said:
The list of fuel providers as reflected in the sites I cited in my
first post is correct. There are no additions.
If using something else, one cannot expect as good gas mileage, and
prolonged use of non list refiners "could damage the engine"
Her recommendation was to follow the list, and that if I had to go
with a non-listed provider, to shift back to a listed provider as soon
as possible.
So, all you folks with 2006 Civics (and others listed by Honda) plus
BMW, GM and Honda, this is another opinion - and in the case of Honda,
the corporate opinion.