TeGGeR®

"Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:kdN6f.465$Rl1.310@newsread1.news.pas.earthlin k.net:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote

<snip>

>
> Plus I presume the extension of the car body's life justifies the
> cost. (About what do you pay each year for this treatment?)


$110Cdn (about $90 US) per application. The car's had it done every single
year since new. I've started doing it in the spring as well, so twice per
year. Also I do regular touchups with a spray-can in especially vulnerable
areas.

I figured if I didn't do it, the car would fall apart and I'd need to spend
$2,000 at a bodyshop anyway...


>
> One of the things that I think will be limiting on my car is the
> undercarriage rusting out so badly that I can't jack the sides up but
> instead can only do the ends.


I've got no rust anywhere. Jack points are like new. Part of that is
diligence by me apart from the rustproofing.

Just a month ago I got rid of some surface rust that was starting in the
rear wheel wells at the bottom right where they meet the rocker panels and
form the wheel well lips. It ground off back to bare steel easily. I
applied zinc primer and paint, using a heat gun for ten minutes to cure the
paint quickly. After that some rubber-based undercoat covered up the paint
as protection from stone chips.


>
>> Northeastern US states could benefit greatly from this, yet it's not
>> sold there.
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >> >> I'm going to be doing the fronts next year. I was just going to
>> >> >> saw the bolts and sleeves apart on either side of the bushing
>> >> >> if they wouldn't
>> >> > come
>> >> >> loose.
>> >> >
>> >> > What kind of saw?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I was wondering about that. I don't know how hard the sleeves are,
>> >> which will be what makes the difference. There's room for a
>> >> hacksaw in between the flanges,
>> >
>> > It's tight. Worse, my hacksaw was not very effective. Have several
>> > new blades handy. If you're not getting anywhere after an hour, I'd
>> > urge trying something else.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hm. Not good.
>
> Well, I'm only an amateur. All of the regulars here have more
> experience than I. You got much farther than I did on the first part
> of your Integra's suspension job (of course!).



What I thought of later today was not to buy a bushing to dissect, but
instead to call a machine shop supply place on Monday.

The metal used for the sleeves can't be much harder than hard stainless
steel, or much harder than a metric 10.9 bolt. You'd think a machine shop
supply place would know how to cut through hard stuff without power tools.

Stay tuned...


>
>> >> but I don't know about a reciprocating saw (Sawzall). Would a
>> >> reciprocating saw risk too much damage to surrounding components?
>> >
>> > Even if you can get it in where you want to cut, I'm not sure it
>> > will actually cut easily through that steel.
>> >
>> > I don't think I've seen a good solution for this yet.
>>
>>
>> Probably why my mechanic refused to consider doing the work.
>
> Interesting.



Yeah. He says it takes hours and hours, I wouldn't want to pay for all that
labor, and he wouldn't want to tie up his shop for that.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR®

cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote in
news:djgpi8$oks$1@theodyn.ncf.ca:

<snip>

>>
>
> I don't know what the best hacksaw blades in the world are. I have a
> Sandvik blade that surprisingly cuts fast and smooth. The teeth are
> very sharp, and stayed sharp for a long time.
>


I'm calling a machine shop supply place tomorrow.

Thanks for you help.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR®

cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote in
news:djgpi8$oks$1@theodyn.ncf.ca:

<snip>

>>
>
> I don't know what the best hacksaw blades in the world are. I have a
> Sandvik blade that surprisingly cuts fast and smooth. The teeth are
> very sharp, and stayed sharp for a long time.
>


I'm calling a machine shop supply place tomorrow.

Thanks for you help.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR®

cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote in
news:djgq23$otf$1@theodyn.ncf.ca:

>
> "TeGGeR®" (tegger@tegger.c0m) writes:

>>
>> How can I test the inner CV joints on-the-car (without a hoist)
>> myself?
>
> By feel maybe, comparing to a new Honda shaft?



Well, yeah. But what specifically are you feeling for?

Do you need to have the suspension in a certain attitude in odrder to feel
it? Is ANY play not acceptable?



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR®

cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote in
news:djgq23$otf$1@theodyn.ncf.ca:

>
> "TeGGeR®" (tegger@tegger.c0m) writes:

>>
>> How can I test the inner CV joints on-the-car (without a hoist)
>> myself?
>
> By feel maybe, comparing to a new Honda shaft?



Well, yeah. But what specifically are you feeling for?

Do you need to have the suspension in a certain attitude in odrder to feel
it? Is ANY play not acceptable?



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

glenn

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:TZWdneiep9CmK8feRVn-uA@speakeasy.net...
>>
>> <...snip irrevelant stuff...>
>> Dude! - "overstresses the actual balljoint"???? In what possible way? The
>> 'trick' is to simply insert a 'fulcrum' at the PRECISE POINT you would
>> want a fulcrum, using the little known fact that as the suspension rises,
>> the distance between the 2 surfaces where the 'ratchet' goes widens. Thus
>> you wind up, with the ratchet in place, with a 'super-lever', which will
>> deliver the near EXACT pull-apart force desired, without even touching
>> the ball joint. (and they say it's /guaranteed/ to work, every time,
>> 100%!)
>
> i know what a fulcrum is thanks. this method exerts [potentially several
> tons] force on the actual balljoint. that can elongate the cup in which
> it sits making it loose. in addition, it stresses the stalk between the
> ball & the taper - and as tegger can attest, that is a fatigue point.
> now, if using your method, it just pops apart without major drama, you're
> probably ok, but if it doesn't, and you have to get rough with it, you're
> going to cause the damage i describe. the correct tool exerts no stress
> on the joint - it's all kept within the post, and the areas of the post
> that are best able to cope.

OK - I get it now. What you're saying is that the special tool grips the top
of the stalk, BELOW the start of the actual ball joint. That is, there must
be some kind of a 'lip' there, directly part of the stalk, that the tool
seats its upper arm under - right? I didn't know that. The tricky way pulls
up on the part the ball joint sits in, from the 'top' so-to-speak, thus
stressing the joint. So I see the point about stressing the 'wrong' parts,
but still, many people have done it this way and I've seen NO reports of
damage to ball joints. Not one. If someone did damage the ball joint doing
it that way, they'd post immediately to the forum yelling at the top of
their lungs DON'T DO IT!

So it may be a safe procedure, even given the fact that stress is put on the
ball joint itself. But I have noted the great concern you have about me
doing something I may later regret, Bill, so I promise I will look and see
if our one rental place has one of these special tools for a reasonable
rental fee, and if it does, I'll use the tool. If not, I'll try the 'trick,'
but being as careful as I can.

>> Most shops don't have the one tool that is perfect (the one I mentioned),
>> and just heat the lower arm end with a torch and slam CRAP out of the
>> lower end with a BFH - that would 'over-stress' the balljoint no end
>> compared to this method, I'd think.
>
> two wrongs don't make a right!

True, true.

>> And again, the tool the official manual recomments is a 2-arm gear
>> puller, (that's why I tried one) and gear pullers simply DO NOT WORK on
>> stuck-hard arms.
>
> i'm not talking about a gear puller. as i told you before, go to
> tegger.com and check out the correct tool.
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#balljoints

The tool you're referencing has the same exact design as the tool I
referenced after I did my post-failure posting (http://tinyurl.com/9gfaf),
but the tool I found sells for $19 - yours sells for $53.49
(http://tinyurl.com/7lfac). Is the one I found maybe junk? - it looks less
sturdy than the one you reference.

>>>dude, all this stuff about being tired & sore makes for injury. chicks
>>>may dig scars, but they're not so keen on disfigurement. and
>>>disfigurement is /way/ more expensive than this misconception that you
>>>can't afford the tool. $60 for the tool is cheap, young grasshopper.
>>
>>
>> I agree totally, old praying mantis! BUT, as I said, I had NO money for a
>> $60 tool. I meant that. Rent every month, you know. I'm on the edge of
>> the abyss. Life is like that sometime (for grasshoppers at least).
>
> what's your emergency room deductible? i'll bet it's more that $60, 2
> tanks of gas, so don't b.s. that you've not got the money. sell the tool
> again after you're done if you think you'll never use it again. or rent
> it. if you can't afford this, you can't afford the car or the insurance
> or the licence or the tires or...

Never heard of an 'emergency room deductible'! But right, right, right - I
CAN'T afford the car, or the insurance, or the licence, or the tires, etc.
Really can't. Until I get some more income coming in. Hard to get more
income coming in without wheels! It's a cosmic law that when financial
difficulties arise, car problems that have been 'lying in wait' will spring
forth...

glenn

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:TZWdneiep9CmK8feRVn-uA@speakeasy.net...
>>
>> <...snip irrevelant stuff...>
>> Dude! - "overstresses the actual balljoint"???? In what possible way? The
>> 'trick' is to simply insert a 'fulcrum' at the PRECISE POINT you would
>> want a fulcrum, using the little known fact that as the suspension rises,
>> the distance between the 2 surfaces where the 'ratchet' goes widens. Thus
>> you wind up, with the ratchet in place, with a 'super-lever', which will
>> deliver the near EXACT pull-apart force desired, without even touching
>> the ball joint. (and they say it's /guaranteed/ to work, every time,
>> 100%!)
>
> i know what a fulcrum is thanks. this method exerts [potentially several
> tons] force on the actual balljoint. that can elongate the cup in which
> it sits making it loose. in addition, it stresses the stalk between the
> ball & the taper - and as tegger can attest, that is a fatigue point.
> now, if using your method, it just pops apart without major drama, you're
> probably ok, but if it doesn't, and you have to get rough with it, you're
> going to cause the damage i describe. the correct tool exerts no stress
> on the joint - it's all kept within the post, and the areas of the post
> that are best able to cope.

OK - I get it now. What you're saying is that the special tool grips the top
of the stalk, BELOW the start of the actual ball joint. That is, there must
be some kind of a 'lip' there, directly part of the stalk, that the tool
seats its upper arm under - right? I didn't know that. The tricky way pulls
up on the part the ball joint sits in, from the 'top' so-to-speak, thus
stressing the joint. So I see the point about stressing the 'wrong' parts,
but still, many people have done it this way and I've seen NO reports of
damage to ball joints. Not one. If someone did damage the ball joint doing
it that way, they'd post immediately to the forum yelling at the top of
their lungs DON'T DO IT!

So it may be a safe procedure, even given the fact that stress is put on the
ball joint itself. But I have noted the great concern you have about me
doing something I may later regret, Bill, so I promise I will look and see
if our one rental place has one of these special tools for a reasonable
rental fee, and if it does, I'll use the tool. If not, I'll try the 'trick,'
but being as careful as I can.

>> Most shops don't have the one tool that is perfect (the one I mentioned),
>> and just heat the lower arm end with a torch and slam CRAP out of the
>> lower end with a BFH - that would 'over-stress' the balljoint no end
>> compared to this method, I'd think.
>
> two wrongs don't make a right!

True, true.

>> And again, the tool the official manual recomments is a 2-arm gear
>> puller, (that's why I tried one) and gear pullers simply DO NOT WORK on
>> stuck-hard arms.
>
> i'm not talking about a gear puller. as i told you before, go to
> tegger.com and check out the correct tool.
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#balljoints

The tool you're referencing has the same exact design as the tool I
referenced after I did my post-failure posting (http://tinyurl.com/9gfaf),
but the tool I found sells for $19 - yours sells for $53.49
(http://tinyurl.com/7lfac). Is the one I found maybe junk? - it looks less
sturdy than the one you reference.

>>>dude, all this stuff about being tired & sore makes for injury. chicks
>>>may dig scars, but they're not so keen on disfigurement. and
>>>disfigurement is /way/ more expensive than this misconception that you
>>>can't afford the tool. $60 for the tool is cheap, young grasshopper.
>>
>>
>> I agree totally, old praying mantis! BUT, as I said, I had NO money for a
>> $60 tool. I meant that. Rent every month, you know. I'm on the edge of
>> the abyss. Life is like that sometime (for grasshoppers at least).
>
> what's your emergency room deductible? i'll bet it's more that $60, 2
> tanks of gas, so don't b.s. that you've not got the money. sell the tool
> again after you're done if you think you'll never use it again. or rent
> it. if you can't afford this, you can't afford the car or the insurance
> or the licence or the tires or...

Never heard of an 'emergency room deductible'! But right, right, right - I
CAN'T afford the car, or the insurance, or the licence, or the tires, etc.
Really can't. Until I get some more income coming in. Hard to get more
income coming in without wheels! It's a cosmic law that when financial
difficulties arise, car problems that have been 'lying in wait' will spring
forth...

Burt S.

"glenn" <lunaqua@gmail.com> wrote in message news:8Sw6f.18117$6e1.11989@newssvr14.news.prodigy. com...

> Dude! - "overstresses the actual balljoint"???? In what possible way?

The other day I found a car just like this on the California Highway.

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/lowerballjoint/

Burt S.

"glenn" <lunaqua@gmail.com> wrote in message news3%6f.3679$D13.1427@newssvr11.news.prodigy.co m...

> Never heard of an 'emergency room deductible'! But right, right, right - I
> CAN'T afford the car, or the insurance, or the licence, or the tires, etc.
> Really can't. Until I get some more income coming in. Hard to get more
> income coming in without wheels! It's a cosmic law that when financial
> difficulties arise, car problems that have been 'lying in wait' will spring
> forth...

Quoting from someone, "... I still dont understand why people remove the
ball joints when installing axles..."

This method does not even require separating the tie rod ball joint. A
cost effective (trick) method. Here's a simple but not detailed input by
ferio 95.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread...age=2#12775434

http://tinyurl.com/8z9r3 same link

Burt S.

"glenn" <lunaqua@gmail.com> wrote in message news:8Sw6f.18117$6e1.11989@newssvr14.news.prodigy. com...

> Dude! - "overstresses the actual balljoint"???? In what possible way?

The other day I found a car just like this on the California Highway.

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/lowerballjoint/

Burt S.

"glenn" <lunaqua@gmail.com> wrote in message news3%6f.3679$D13.1427@newssvr11.news.prodigy.co m...

> Never heard of an 'emergency room deductible'! But right, right, right - I
> CAN'T afford the car, or the insurance, or the licence, or the tires, etc.
> Really can't. Until I get some more income coming in. Hard to get more
> income coming in without wheels! It's a cosmic law that when financial
> difficulties arise, car problems that have been 'lying in wait' will spring
> forth...

Quoting from someone, "... I still dont understand why people remove the
ball joints when installing axles..."

This method does not even require separating the tie rod ball joint. A
cost effective (trick) method. Here's a simple but not detailed input by
ferio 95.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread...age=2#12775434

http://tinyurl.com/8z9r3 same link

jim beam

Burt S. wrote:
> "glenn" <lunaqua@gmail.com> wrote in message news3%6f.3679$D13.1427@newssvr11.news.prodigy.co m...
>
>
>>Never heard of an 'emergency room deductible'! But right, right, right - I
>>CAN'T afford the car, or the insurance, or the licence, or the tires, etc.
>>Really can't. Until I get some more income coming in. Hard to get more
>>income coming in without wheels! It's a cosmic law that when financial
>>difficulties arise, car problems that have been 'lying in wait' will spring
>>forth...
>
>
> Quoting from someone, "... I still dont understand why people remove the
> ball joints when installing axles..."
>
> This method does not even require separating the tie rod ball joint. A
> cost effective (trick) method. Here's a simple but not detailed input by
> ferio 95.
>
> http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread...age=2#12775434
>
> http://tinyurl.com/8z9r3 same link

sure, you can do it like that too. but it's even more heavy garbage you
have to work around. besides, popping the joint allows you to manually
inspect and make sure it's ok. one consequence of it /not/ being ok has
been posted by burt!

jim beam

Burt S. wrote:
> "glenn" <lunaqua@gmail.com> wrote in message news3%6f.3679$D13.1427@newssvr11.news.prodigy.co m...
>
>
>>Never heard of an 'emergency room deductible'! But right, right, right - I
>>CAN'T afford the car, or the insurance, or the licence, or the tires, etc.
>>Really can't. Until I get some more income coming in. Hard to get more
>>income coming in without wheels! It's a cosmic law that when financial
>>difficulties arise, car problems that have been 'lying in wait' will spring
>>forth...
>
>
> Quoting from someone, "... I still dont understand why people remove the
> ball joints when installing axles..."
>
> This method does not even require separating the tie rod ball joint. A
> cost effective (trick) method. Here's a simple but not detailed input by
> ferio 95.
>
> http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread...age=2#12775434
>
> http://tinyurl.com/8z9r3 same link

sure, you can do it like that too. but it's even more heavy garbage you
have to work around. besides, popping the joint allows you to manually
inspect and make sure it's ok. one consequence of it /not/ being ok has
been posted by burt!

Michael Pardee

"glenn" <lunaqua@gmail.com> wrote in message
news3%6f.3679$D13.1427@newssvr11.news.prodigy.co m...
> The tool you're referencing has the same exact design as the tool I
> referenced after I did my post-failure posting (http://tinyurl.com/9gfaf),
> but the tool I found sells for $19 - yours sells for $53.49
> (http://tinyurl.com/7lfac). Is the one I found maybe junk? - it looks less
> sturdy than the one you reference.

The cheap one looks okay. The big difference I see is that the expensive one
has two pivot points so it can handle both large and small ball joints. For
Hondas I think the $19 one will do it.

Mike (who has the expensive one!)

Michael Pardee

"glenn" <lunaqua@gmail.com> wrote in message
news3%6f.3679$D13.1427@newssvr11.news.prodigy.co m...
> The tool you're referencing has the same exact design as the tool I
> referenced after I did my post-failure posting (http://tinyurl.com/9gfaf),
> but the tool I found sells for $19 - yours sells for $53.49
> (http://tinyurl.com/7lfac). Is the one I found maybe junk? - it looks less
> sturdy than the one you reference.

The cheap one looks okay. The big difference I see is that the expensive one
has two pivot points so it can handle both large and small ball joints. For
Hondas I think the $19 one will do it.

Mike (who has the expensive one!)