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Re: Bad Timing Belt?
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:DZqdndLsCvzp84PYnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@sedona.net: > "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1159614360.868135.22190@k70g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com... >> Hello jim. It was on a lift for the tire rotation, and we decided to >> take it up a little higher to check under it. Using a flashlight, he >> basically saw just the lower section of the timing belt/pulley. I was >> skeptical too, at first, thinking the grooves were too regularly >> spaced apart. But when I got home and took the valve cover and belt >> cover off... Possibly this belt was put on *too* tight, or was of a >> quality for which the word "aftermarket" is too kind. >> >> Anyway I would love to do this myself, so I'm looking through the >> posts and reading the service manual, I still can't figure out how to >> take that stubborn "special bolt" off... >> >> > Check out the options here: > http://tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/index.html As TeGGeR says, an > impact wrench is the overall best way. If you can rent a hefty > electric one with a socket to match you should be okay. Note that > regular sockets must not be used with an impact wrench as the brittle > regular sockets can explode. In any event, don't blow off the need for > eye protection. > > It can be a challenge, but it can be done. Besides the special > techniques, I think the special bolt requires special vocabulary. But > once it moves the rest is downhill. > > Mike > > > crankshaft pulley bolt torque spec for my B18 DOHC motor is 130 ft-lbs,so you'd need a impact driver with torque greater than that. (probably a LOT more!!) My Haynes manual suggests a strap wrench to hold the crank pulley still while using a 1/2" driver socket and breaker bar. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Bad Timing Belt?
"sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1159614360.868135.22190@k70g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com: > Hello jim. It was on a lift for the tire rotation, and we decided to > take it up a little higher to check under it. Using a flashlight, he > basically saw just the lower section of the timing belt/pulley. It sounds like the lower timing belt cover was missing;it seems to me that the timing belt should not be exposed that one could see it. Maybe that's why your new belt is degraded? It was left exposed to the elements by a missing cover. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > I was > skeptical too, at first, thinking the grooves were too regularly > spaced apart. But when I got home and took the valve cover and belt > cover off... Possibly this belt was put on *too* tight, or was of a > quality for which the word "aftermarket" is too kind. > > Anyway I would love to do this myself, so I'm looking through the > posts and reading the service manual, I still can't figure out how to > take that stubborn "special bolt" off... > > > > > > Jim Yanik wrote: >> "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in >> news:1159581830.879389.312200@k70g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com: >> >> > >> > I'm afraid that's exactly the belt I'm referring to. This model is >> > a "domesticated" version of the EX, with basically the same engine >> > (D16z6). >> > >> > I wouldn't even have seen the cracks if the mechanic hadn't pointed >> > it out when I was having the tires rotated. >> >> How'd the mechanic see it if there's a cover over it? >> What was he doing under the hood while rotating tires? >> -- >> Jim Yanik >> jyanik >> at >> kua.net > |
Re: Bad Timing Belt?
"sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1159614360.868135.22190@k70g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com: > Hello jim. It was on a lift for the tire rotation, and we decided to > take it up a little higher to check under it. Using a flashlight, he > basically saw just the lower section of the timing belt/pulley. It sounds like the lower timing belt cover was missing;it seems to me that the timing belt should not be exposed that one could see it. Maybe that's why your new belt is degraded? It was left exposed to the elements by a missing cover. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > I was > skeptical too, at first, thinking the grooves were too regularly > spaced apart. But when I got home and took the valve cover and belt > cover off... Possibly this belt was put on *too* tight, or was of a > quality for which the word "aftermarket" is too kind. > > Anyway I would love to do this myself, so I'm looking through the > posts and reading the service manual, I still can't figure out how to > take that stubborn "special bolt" off... > > > > > > Jim Yanik wrote: >> "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in >> news:1159581830.879389.312200@k70g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com: >> >> > >> > I'm afraid that's exactly the belt I'm referring to. This model is >> > a "domesticated" version of the EX, with basically the same engine >> > (D16z6). >> > >> > I wouldn't even have seen the cracks if the mechanic hadn't pointed >> > it out when I was having the tires rotated. >> >> How'd the mechanic see it if there's a cover over it? >> What was he doing under the hood while rotating tires? >> -- >> Jim Yanik >> jyanik >> at >> kua.net > |
Re: Bad Timing Belt?
"sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1159614360.868135.22190@k70g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com: > Hello jim. It was on a lift for the tire rotation, and we decided to > take it up a little higher to check under it. Using a flashlight, he > basically saw just the lower section of the timing belt/pulley. It sounds like the lower timing belt cover was missing;it seems to me that the timing belt should not be exposed that one could see it. Maybe that's why your new belt is degraded? It was left exposed to the elements by a missing cover. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > I was > skeptical too, at first, thinking the grooves were too regularly > spaced apart. But when I got home and took the valve cover and belt > cover off... Possibly this belt was put on *too* tight, or was of a > quality for which the word "aftermarket" is too kind. > > Anyway I would love to do this myself, so I'm looking through the > posts and reading the service manual, I still can't figure out how to > take that stubborn "special bolt" off... > > > > > > Jim Yanik wrote: >> "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in >> news:1159581830.879389.312200@k70g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com: >> >> > >> > I'm afraid that's exactly the belt I'm referring to. This model is >> > a "domesticated" version of the EX, with basically the same engine >> > (D16z6). >> > >> > I wouldn't even have seen the cracks if the mechanic hadn't pointed >> > it out when I was having the tires rotated. >> >> How'd the mechanic see it if there's a cover over it? >> What was he doing under the hood while rotating tires? >> -- >> Jim Yanik >> jyanik >> at >> kua.net > |
Re: Bad Timing Belt?
Jim Yanik wrote:
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in > news:DZqdndLsCvzp84PYnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@sedona.net: > >> "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1159614360.868135.22190@k70g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com... >>> Hello jim. It was on a lift for the tire rotation, and we decided to >>> take it up a little higher to check under it. Using a flashlight, he >>> basically saw just the lower section of the timing belt/pulley. I was >>> skeptical too, at first, thinking the grooves were too regularly >>> spaced apart. But when I got home and took the valve cover and belt >>> cover off... Possibly this belt was put on *too* tight, or was of a >>> quality for which the word "aftermarket" is too kind. >>> >>> Anyway I would love to do this myself, so I'm looking through the >>> posts and reading the service manual, I still can't figure out how to >>> take that stubborn "special bolt" off... >>> >>> >> Check out the options here: >> http://tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/index.html As TeGGeR says, an >> impact wrench is the overall best way. If you can rent a hefty >> electric one with a socket to match you should be okay. Note that >> regular sockets must not be used with an impact wrench as the brittle >> regular sockets can explode. In any event, don't blow off the need for >> eye protection. >> >> It can be a challenge, but it can be done. Besides the special >> techniques, I think the special bolt requires special vocabulary. But >> once it moves the rest is downhill. >> >> Mike >> >> >> > > crankshaft pulley bolt torque spec for my B18 DOHC motor is 130 ft-lbs,so > you'd need a impact driver with torque greater than that. > (probably a LOT more!!) > > My Haynes manual suggests a strap wrench to hold the crank pulley still > while using a 1/2" driver socket and breaker bar. > pah, haynes. good luck with the strap - you will indeed need "special vocabulary" trying to do it with one of those. bolts lock in there for /way/ more than 170ft.lbs to loosen. *** to the op, buy the proper holder tool, then sell it on ebay if you don't need it again. or you can rent the factory tool from some honda dealers. belt replacement is relatively straightforward once you remove the bolt, and get the accessories out of the way. a/c and steering pumps both move without the need to disconnect pipes, even though it may not be obvious at first sight. when installing the new belt, make sure you tension correctly. google this group on how to do it as it's been posted a number of times this year. write back if you have questions. |
Re: Bad Timing Belt?
Jim Yanik wrote:
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in > news:DZqdndLsCvzp84PYnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@sedona.net: > >> "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1159614360.868135.22190@k70g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com... >>> Hello jim. It was on a lift for the tire rotation, and we decided to >>> take it up a little higher to check under it. Using a flashlight, he >>> basically saw just the lower section of the timing belt/pulley. I was >>> skeptical too, at first, thinking the grooves were too regularly >>> spaced apart. But when I got home and took the valve cover and belt >>> cover off... Possibly this belt was put on *too* tight, or was of a >>> quality for which the word "aftermarket" is too kind. >>> >>> Anyway I would love to do this myself, so I'm looking through the >>> posts and reading the service manual, I still can't figure out how to >>> take that stubborn "special bolt" off... >>> >>> >> Check out the options here: >> http://tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/index.html As TeGGeR says, an >> impact wrench is the overall best way. If you can rent a hefty >> electric one with a socket to match you should be okay. Note that >> regular sockets must not be used with an impact wrench as the brittle >> regular sockets can explode. In any event, don't blow off the need for >> eye protection. >> >> It can be a challenge, but it can be done. Besides the special >> techniques, I think the special bolt requires special vocabulary. But >> once it moves the rest is downhill. >> >> Mike >> >> >> > > crankshaft pulley bolt torque spec for my B18 DOHC motor is 130 ft-lbs,so > you'd need a impact driver with torque greater than that. > (probably a LOT more!!) > > My Haynes manual suggests a strap wrench to hold the crank pulley still > while using a 1/2" driver socket and breaker bar. > pah, haynes. good luck with the strap - you will indeed need "special vocabulary" trying to do it with one of those. bolts lock in there for /way/ more than 170ft.lbs to loosen. *** to the op, buy the proper holder tool, then sell it on ebay if you don't need it again. or you can rent the factory tool from some honda dealers. belt replacement is relatively straightforward once you remove the bolt, and get the accessories out of the way. a/c and steering pumps both move without the need to disconnect pipes, even though it may not be obvious at first sight. when installing the new belt, make sure you tension correctly. google this group on how to do it as it's been posted a number of times this year. write back if you have questions. |
Re: Bad Timing Belt?
Jim Yanik wrote:
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in > news:DZqdndLsCvzp84PYnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@sedona.net: > >> "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1159614360.868135.22190@k70g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com... >>> Hello jim. It was on a lift for the tire rotation, and we decided to >>> take it up a little higher to check under it. Using a flashlight, he >>> basically saw just the lower section of the timing belt/pulley. I was >>> skeptical too, at first, thinking the grooves were too regularly >>> spaced apart. But when I got home and took the valve cover and belt >>> cover off... Possibly this belt was put on *too* tight, or was of a >>> quality for which the word "aftermarket" is too kind. >>> >>> Anyway I would love to do this myself, so I'm looking through the >>> posts and reading the service manual, I still can't figure out how to >>> take that stubborn "special bolt" off... >>> >>> >> Check out the options here: >> http://tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/index.html As TeGGeR says, an >> impact wrench is the overall best way. If you can rent a hefty >> electric one with a socket to match you should be okay. Note that >> regular sockets must not be used with an impact wrench as the brittle >> regular sockets can explode. In any event, don't blow off the need for >> eye protection. >> >> It can be a challenge, but it can be done. Besides the special >> techniques, I think the special bolt requires special vocabulary. But >> once it moves the rest is downhill. >> >> Mike >> >> >> > > crankshaft pulley bolt torque spec for my B18 DOHC motor is 130 ft-lbs,so > you'd need a impact driver with torque greater than that. > (probably a LOT more!!) > > My Haynes manual suggests a strap wrench to hold the crank pulley still > while using a 1/2" driver socket and breaker bar. > pah, haynes. good luck with the strap - you will indeed need "special vocabulary" trying to do it with one of those. bolts lock in there for /way/ more than 170ft.lbs to loosen. *** to the op, buy the proper holder tool, then sell it on ebay if you don't need it again. or you can rent the factory tool from some honda dealers. belt replacement is relatively straightforward once you remove the bolt, and get the accessories out of the way. a/c and steering pumps both move without the need to disconnect pipes, even though it may not be obvious at first sight. when installing the new belt, make sure you tension correctly. google this group on how to do it as it's been posted a number of times this year. write back if you have questions. |
Re: Bad Timing Belt?
Jim Yanik wrote:
> "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in > news:1159614360.868135.22190@k70g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com: > >> Hello jim. It was on a lift for the tire rotation, and we decided to >> take it up a little higher to check under it. Using a flashlight, he >> basically saw just the lower section of the timing belt/pulley. > > It sounds like the lower timing belt cover was missing;it seems to me that > the timing belt should not be exposed that one could see it. > > Maybe that's why your new belt is degraded? > It was left exposed to the elements by a missing cover. > i second that. |
Re: Bad Timing Belt?
Jim Yanik wrote:
> "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in > news:1159614360.868135.22190@k70g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com: > >> Hello jim. It was on a lift for the tire rotation, and we decided to >> take it up a little higher to check under it. Using a flashlight, he >> basically saw just the lower section of the timing belt/pulley. > > It sounds like the lower timing belt cover was missing;it seems to me that > the timing belt should not be exposed that one could see it. > > Maybe that's why your new belt is degraded? > It was left exposed to the elements by a missing cover. > i second that. |
Re: Bad Timing Belt?
Jim Yanik wrote:
> "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in > news:1159614360.868135.22190@k70g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com: > >> Hello jim. It was on a lift for the tire rotation, and we decided to >> take it up a little higher to check under it. Using a flashlight, he >> basically saw just the lower section of the timing belt/pulley. > > It sounds like the lower timing belt cover was missing;it seems to me that > the timing belt should not be exposed that one could see it. > > Maybe that's why your new belt is degraded? > It was left exposed to the elements by a missing cover. > i second that. |
Re: Bad Timing Belt?
"sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote
> The timing belt on my '95 Civic ESi (1.6L SOHC) is about 4 years old, > and was used for less than 40K kms (25K miles). But I > notice it had > deep cracks on the outer (smooth) side, at each gap > between the teeth. > The cracks are mostly very straight, and so the belt looks > "segmented". > They're also deep, going about halfway into the belt's > thickness. > > I have a feeling this isn't normal. Is it? If it's really > bad, how > could it possibly have gotten this bad, when it's still > relatively > fresh and was installed by the Honda dealer? I would > really like to > prevent it next time. From reading here and elsewhere, and keeping an eye on my own, 91 Civic's timing belt, I agree this does not seem normal. Do you know who the belt manufacturer was? Who changed it last, anyway, the dealer or an independent shop? Maybe ask them from where they get the belts, or it might be printed on the belt. OTOH I do not recall reading caveats about belt manufacturers, perhaps because there are so few manufacturers and they generally produce high quality belts. What sort of driving conditions does this car see? Anything that would qualify as "extreme" per your owner's manual? E.g. a lot of dust, cold starts, Canada-like temperature extremes? Has oil per chance leaked onto the belt? There are cautions about avoiding this on the net and when changing it. Jim Yanik's theory sounds plausible, too. On my 91 Civic, I do not think one can see the sort of detail you're describing by looking at the belt from the bottom. The angle is too extreme. On the "special" pulley bolt: If I (an amateur who has slowly been accumulating more proficiency in the last ten years) can get it off using hand tools, I think just about anyone can. The route that may be most reliable and least expensive may be taking the car to a garage, having them use their super-duper air impact wrench to loosen the bolt, then just snugging it up for the presumably short trip home. That bolt typically requires serious torque to break free, but I think that's mostly due to it being a fine thread subject to heat cycling over a period of years, so the female and male thread metals tend to "meld" together. A lot of folks here report having just run the car to their local garage and tipping the techs there $10-$15 or so for breaking the bolt free. Another resource: http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id6.html I trust you are not driving the car at this point. Doing so risks a broken or failed belt, potentially destroying the engine. |
Re: Bad Timing Belt?
"sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote
> The timing belt on my '95 Civic ESi (1.6L SOHC) is about 4 years old, > and was used for less than 40K kms (25K miles). But I > notice it had > deep cracks on the outer (smooth) side, at each gap > between the teeth. > The cracks are mostly very straight, and so the belt looks > "segmented". > They're also deep, going about halfway into the belt's > thickness. > > I have a feeling this isn't normal. Is it? If it's really > bad, how > could it possibly have gotten this bad, when it's still > relatively > fresh and was installed by the Honda dealer? I would > really like to > prevent it next time. From reading here and elsewhere, and keeping an eye on my own, 91 Civic's timing belt, I agree this does not seem normal. Do you know who the belt manufacturer was? Who changed it last, anyway, the dealer or an independent shop? Maybe ask them from where they get the belts, or it might be printed on the belt. OTOH I do not recall reading caveats about belt manufacturers, perhaps because there are so few manufacturers and they generally produce high quality belts. What sort of driving conditions does this car see? Anything that would qualify as "extreme" per your owner's manual? E.g. a lot of dust, cold starts, Canada-like temperature extremes? Has oil per chance leaked onto the belt? There are cautions about avoiding this on the net and when changing it. Jim Yanik's theory sounds plausible, too. On my 91 Civic, I do not think one can see the sort of detail you're describing by looking at the belt from the bottom. The angle is too extreme. On the "special" pulley bolt: If I (an amateur who has slowly been accumulating more proficiency in the last ten years) can get it off using hand tools, I think just about anyone can. The route that may be most reliable and least expensive may be taking the car to a garage, having them use their super-duper air impact wrench to loosen the bolt, then just snugging it up for the presumably short trip home. That bolt typically requires serious torque to break free, but I think that's mostly due to it being a fine thread subject to heat cycling over a period of years, so the female and male thread metals tend to "meld" together. A lot of folks here report having just run the car to their local garage and tipping the techs there $10-$15 or so for breaking the bolt free. Another resource: http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id6.html I trust you are not driving the car at this point. Doing so risks a broken or failed belt, potentially destroying the engine. |
Re: Bad Timing Belt?
"sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote
> The timing belt on my '95 Civic ESi (1.6L SOHC) is about 4 years old, > and was used for less than 40K kms (25K miles). But I > notice it had > deep cracks on the outer (smooth) side, at each gap > between the teeth. > The cracks are mostly very straight, and so the belt looks > "segmented". > They're also deep, going about halfway into the belt's > thickness. > > I have a feeling this isn't normal. Is it? If it's really > bad, how > could it possibly have gotten this bad, when it's still > relatively > fresh and was installed by the Honda dealer? I would > really like to > prevent it next time. From reading here and elsewhere, and keeping an eye on my own, 91 Civic's timing belt, I agree this does not seem normal. Do you know who the belt manufacturer was? Who changed it last, anyway, the dealer or an independent shop? Maybe ask them from where they get the belts, or it might be printed on the belt. OTOH I do not recall reading caveats about belt manufacturers, perhaps because there are so few manufacturers and they generally produce high quality belts. What sort of driving conditions does this car see? Anything that would qualify as "extreme" per your owner's manual? E.g. a lot of dust, cold starts, Canada-like temperature extremes? Has oil per chance leaked onto the belt? There are cautions about avoiding this on the net and when changing it. Jim Yanik's theory sounds plausible, too. On my 91 Civic, I do not think one can see the sort of detail you're describing by looking at the belt from the bottom. The angle is too extreme. On the "special" pulley bolt: If I (an amateur who has slowly been accumulating more proficiency in the last ten years) can get it off using hand tools, I think just about anyone can. The route that may be most reliable and least expensive may be taking the car to a garage, having them use their super-duper air impact wrench to loosen the bolt, then just snugging it up for the presumably short trip home. That bolt typically requires serious torque to break free, but I think that's mostly due to it being a fine thread subject to heat cycling over a period of years, so the female and male thread metals tend to "meld" together. A lot of folks here report having just run the car to their local garage and tipping the techs there $10-$15 or so for breaking the bolt free. Another resource: http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id6.html I trust you are not driving the car at this point. Doing so risks a broken or failed belt, potentially destroying the engine. |
Re: Bad Timing Belt?
Thanks to everyone for taking time to reply. I posted a photo, if you're curious: http://hondaswap.com/attachments/gen...093006_001.jpg |
Re: Bad Timing Belt?
Thanks to everyone for taking time to reply. I posted a photo, if you're curious: http://hondaswap.com/attachments/gen...093006_001.jpg |
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