delbert brecht

2000 Honda CRV EX with MT, ABS.

The owners manual says nothing. The service manual says brakes are bled as
in regular car EXCEPT that the two front brakes are bled first not the
diagonally opposed brakes which is the way I usually do them. The SM says
(page 19-37) "Brake fluid replacement and air bleeding procedures are the
same as for vehicles without ABS." Does this correspond with real world
experience that the readers of this newsgroup have? Anything to add or
cautions.
--
Pickleman
halfsour@roadyourpantsrunner.com
Please remove "yourpants" to reply
1998 Civic HX MT with 142K
2000 CRV EX MT with 98K

Tegger

delbert brecht <halfsour@roadrunner.com> wrote in
news:C447966D.99A9%halfsour@roadrunner.com:

> 2000 Honda CRV EX with MT, ABS.
>
> The owners manual says nothing. The service manual says brakes are
> bled as in regular car EXCEPT that the two front brakes are bled first
> not the diagonally opposed brakes which is the way I usually do them.
> The SM says (page 19-37) "Brake fluid replacement and air bleeding
> procedures are the same as for vehicles without ABS." Does this
> correspond with real world experience that the readers of this
> newsgroup have? Anything to add or cautions.



No real-world experience with that system here, but I've done some study of
the diagrams in the RSX Service Manual. The RSX has the same ABS system as
your CR-V, including the wheel bleed sequence.

The newer Honda ABS system is different from Honda's original system in
that it does not have its own fluid supply. The system is instead described
as being of the "recirculating" type. This means the same fluid moves
between both ABS and non-ABS sides of the system, with a pump performing
the recirculation... only when the ABS is activated. When the ABS is not
activated, the fluid on the ABS side is static and unchanging.

The RSX manual says that air bleeding the ABS side requires use of the
Honda PGM Tester to activate the ABS so as to force fluid circulation
through the ABS side back to the master cylinder. It says this at the
bottom of the page which describes the ABS Control Unit (19-41).

Most people don't have a Honda PGM Tester, of course.

I have found a handy non-PGM Tester way to force activation of the ABS:
Drive about 25mph on an /empty/ road with gravel shoulders. Run the right
side of the car onto the shoulder, then apply the brakes until you hear the
ABS activate. Let the ABS growl for a few seconds. When it safe the do so,
cross the road and use the shoulder on the other side for the left wheels.
You'd need to bleed once, do the ABS activation, then bleed again.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

nick@nowhere.com

On Wed, 7 May 2008 23:24:02 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m>
wrote:

>delbert brecht <halfsour@roadrunner.com> wrote in
>news:C447966D.99A9%halfsour@roadrunner.com:
>
>> 2000 Honda CRV EX with MT, ABS.
>>
>> The owners manual says nothing. The service manual says brakes are
>> bled as in regular car EXCEPT that the two front brakes are bled first
>> not the diagonally opposed brakes which is the way I usually do them.
>> The SM says (page 19-37) "Brake fluid replacement and air bleeding
>> procedures are the same as for vehicles without ABS." Does this
>> correspond with real world experience that the readers of this
>> newsgroup have? Anything to add or cautions.
>
>
>
>No real-world experience with that system here, but I've done some study of
>the diagrams in the RSX Service Manual. The RSX has the same ABS system as
>your CR-V, including the wheel bleed sequence.
>
>The newer Honda ABS system is different from Honda's original system in
>that it does not have its own fluid supply. The system is instead described
>as being of the "recirculating" type. This means the same fluid moves
>between both ABS and non-ABS sides of the system, with a pump performing
>the recirculation... only when the ABS is activated. When the ABS is not
>activated, the fluid on the ABS side is static and unchanging.
>
>The RSX manual says that air bleeding the ABS side requires use of the
>Honda PGM Tester to activate the ABS so as to force fluid circulation
>through the ABS side back to the master cylinder. It says this at the
>bottom of the page which describes the ABS Control Unit (19-41).
>
>Most people don't have a Honda PGM Tester, of course.
>
>I have found a handy non-PGM Tester way to force activation of the ABS:
>Drive about 25mph on an /empty/ road with gravel shoulders. Run the right
>side of the car onto the shoulder, then apply the brakes until you hear the
>ABS activate. Let the ABS growl for a few seconds. When it safe the do so,
>cross the road and use the shoulder on the other side for the left wheels.
>You'd need to bleed once, do the ABS activation, then bleed again.


You can buy a crippled PGM tester to do this. It has to be available
to the public in order to do maintenance on your car.

delbert brecht

nick@nowhere.com5/11/08 11:36ng4e249n69d93pfqhq3m2p1j52tl1si45b@4ax.com

> On Wed, 7 May 2008 23:24:02 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m>
> wrote:
>
>> delbert brecht <halfsour@roadrunner.com> wrote in
>> news:C447966D.99A9%halfsour@roadrunner.com:
>>
>>> 2000 Honda CRV EX with MT, ABS.
>>>
>>> The owners manual says nothing. The service manual says brakes are
>>> bled as in regular car EXCEPT that the two front brakes are bled first
>>> not the diagonally opposed brakes which is the way I usually do them.
>>> The SM says (page 19-37) "Brake fluid replacement and air bleeding
>>> procedures are the same as for vehicles without ABS." Does this
>>> correspond with real world experience that the readers of this
>>> newsgroup have? Anything to add or cautions.
>>
>>
>>
>> No real-world experience with that system here, but I've done some study of
>> the diagrams in the RSX Service Manual. The RSX has the same ABS system as
>> your CR-V, including the wheel bleed sequence.
>>
>> The newer Honda ABS system is different from Honda's original system in
>> that it does not have its own fluid supply. The system is instead described
>> as being of the "recirculating" type. This means the same fluid moves
>> between both ABS and non-ABS sides of the system, with a pump performing
>> the recirculation... only when the ABS is activated. When the ABS is not
>> activated, the fluid on the ABS side is static and unchanging.
>>
>> The RSX manual says that air bleeding the ABS side requires use of the
>> Honda PGM Tester to activate the ABS so as to force fluid circulation
>> through the ABS side back to the master cylinder. It says this at the
>> bottom of the page which describes the ABS Control Unit (19-41).
>>
>> Most people don't have a Honda PGM Tester, of course.
>>
>> I have found a handy non-PGM Tester way to force activation of the ABS:
>> Drive about 25mph on an /empty/ road with gravel shoulders. Run the right
>> side of the car onto the shoulder, then apply the brakes until you hear the
>> ABS activate. Let the ABS growl for a few seconds. When it safe the do so,
>> cross the road and use the shoulder on the other side for the left wheels.
>> You'd need to bleed once, do the ABS activation, then bleed again.
>
>
> You can buy a crippled PGM tester to do this. It has to be available
> to the public in order to do maintenance on your car.
>
Can you give some more detail on this. Like where we can get these crippled
PGM testers and how much??

I did some more research in the service manual and in the section
specifically devoted to bleeding brakes (section 19-7) they make no mention
of using anything beyond normal bleeding techniques except doing the two
front brakes first before the rear.

By studying the hydraulic flow charts one sees that on each wheel circuit
one of the two solenoids is normally open and the other is normally closed.
Perhaps this allows fluid to flow through the modulator enough to replace
most if not all of the fluid. I am going to guess that the only time the PGM
tester is needed is if you replace the modulator/motor assembly. Even if you
left some of the old fluid inside the modulator, over time it would get
mixed with the new fluid and moisture and contaminants would be greatly
diluted.
--
Pickleman
halfsour@roadyourpantsrunner.com
Please remove "yourpants" to reply
1998 Civic HX MT with 142K
2000 CRV EX MT with 98K