Can Anything Stop Toyota?
#196
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
In news:w1Ctb.22949$w66.458618@twister.tampabay.rr.co m,
Dave Kelsen <kelsen@elmore.rr.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> On 11/15/2003 10:15 AM Philip® spake these words of knowledge:
>
> > In news:Aiptb.17114$w66.367558@twister.tampabay.rr.co m,
> > Dave Kelsen <kelsen@elmore.rr.com> being of bellicose mind
> > posted:
> > > On 11/15/2003 12:38 AM Philip® spake these words of knowledge:
> >
> > > > CR's evaluation process has always been plagued by
> > > > subjectivity. I'm the one writing the check at purchase time
> > > > and I am the one who has to live with the purchase. That's
> > > > why it's what -I- discover about the car that matters most.
> > > > You can let other people do your thinking and test driving
> > > > for you. Probably just as well. Car models live and die
> > > > by the dictates of the market .... magazines notwithstanding.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What new car have you purchased in the last couple of years?
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > ~~Philip
> > >
> > > Philip, the subject of the discussion with respect to Consumer
> > > Reports was the reliability of vehicles reported by owners &
> > > drivers, hundreds of thousands of them. That's not subjective,
> > > unless you intend to claim that Consumer Reports makes up the
> > > survey results. If you do, by all means make the claim.
> > >
> > > RFT!!!
> > > Dave Kelsen
> >
> > Dave, the difference of opinion is over C/R's automotive
> > evaluations over the years and the weight that should be given
> > to those reports vs. personal research. C/R is a non-profit
> > organization which means they can be just as prejudiced and
> > opinionated in one direction as a "for profit" magazine can be
> > biased in favor of its advertisers in another direction. The
> > size of CR's audience only reflects the diversity of product
> > they test, name recognition, and their many years in business.
> >
> > I have worked in the auto repair business for many years and have
> > visited several assembly plant(s) of the models up for
> > consideration. To those who have not such a background, do the
> > best you can by reading a VARIETY of publications ... not -just-
> > C/R. --
> >
> > ~~Philip "Never let school interfere
> > with your education - Mark
> > Twain"
>
> Interesting opinion, and perhaps I overreacted. On the other hand,
> looking back in this thread, I quote the first reference to
> Consumer Reports:
>
> > Bigotry only belongs to someone like you. You refuse to face
> the > fact that Toyota is making quality automobiles and gaining
> market > share in the U.S. Consumer Reports surveys 600,000 auto
> owners.
>
> The reference here is clearly to the owner surveys, as *I* said,
> and *not* to CR's staff reviews, as you reference above. You
> clearly stated your opinion with respect to CR's staff reviews.
> You're deluded, but so are we all, about something; you're
> entitled. The point is, no one was arguing with you about it.
>
> For whatever *my* opinion is worth, I suggest to you the
> following: The size of CR's audience reflects the diversity of
> products they test, name recognition, and their many years in
> business.
>
> Further, I recommend that if you are unable to form an opinion
> uncolored by the pablum handed out by automobile manufacturers, I
> recommend that you do the best you can by reading a VARIETY of
> publications ... including C/R.
>
> RFT!!!
> Dave Kelsen
When I want an opinion from you, I'll give it to you. ;-)
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
Dave Kelsen <kelsen@elmore.rr.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> On 11/15/2003 10:15 AM Philip® spake these words of knowledge:
>
> > In news:Aiptb.17114$w66.367558@twister.tampabay.rr.co m,
> > Dave Kelsen <kelsen@elmore.rr.com> being of bellicose mind
> > posted:
> > > On 11/15/2003 12:38 AM Philip® spake these words of knowledge:
> >
> > > > CR's evaluation process has always been plagued by
> > > > subjectivity. I'm the one writing the check at purchase time
> > > > and I am the one who has to live with the purchase. That's
> > > > why it's what -I- discover about the car that matters most.
> > > > You can let other people do your thinking and test driving
> > > > for you. Probably just as well. Car models live and die
> > > > by the dictates of the market .... magazines notwithstanding.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What new car have you purchased in the last couple of years?
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > ~~Philip
> > >
> > > Philip, the subject of the discussion with respect to Consumer
> > > Reports was the reliability of vehicles reported by owners &
> > > drivers, hundreds of thousands of them. That's not subjective,
> > > unless you intend to claim that Consumer Reports makes up the
> > > survey results. If you do, by all means make the claim.
> > >
> > > RFT!!!
> > > Dave Kelsen
> >
> > Dave, the difference of opinion is over C/R's automotive
> > evaluations over the years and the weight that should be given
> > to those reports vs. personal research. C/R is a non-profit
> > organization which means they can be just as prejudiced and
> > opinionated in one direction as a "for profit" magazine can be
> > biased in favor of its advertisers in another direction. The
> > size of CR's audience only reflects the diversity of product
> > they test, name recognition, and their many years in business.
> >
> > I have worked in the auto repair business for many years and have
> > visited several assembly plant(s) of the models up for
> > consideration. To those who have not such a background, do the
> > best you can by reading a VARIETY of publications ... not -just-
> > C/R. --
> >
> > ~~Philip "Never let school interfere
> > with your education - Mark
> > Twain"
>
> Interesting opinion, and perhaps I overreacted. On the other hand,
> looking back in this thread, I quote the first reference to
> Consumer Reports:
>
> > Bigotry only belongs to someone like you. You refuse to face
> the > fact that Toyota is making quality automobiles and gaining
> market > share in the U.S. Consumer Reports surveys 600,000 auto
> owners.
>
> The reference here is clearly to the owner surveys, as *I* said,
> and *not* to CR's staff reviews, as you reference above. You
> clearly stated your opinion with respect to CR's staff reviews.
> You're deluded, but so are we all, about something; you're
> entitled. The point is, no one was arguing with you about it.
>
> For whatever *my* opinion is worth, I suggest to you the
> following: The size of CR's audience reflects the diversity of
> products they test, name recognition, and their many years in
> business.
>
> Further, I recommend that if you are unable to form an opinion
> uncolored by the pablum handed out by automobile manufacturers, I
> recommend that you do the best you can by reading a VARIETY of
> publications ... including C/R.
>
> RFT!!!
> Dave Kelsen
When I want an opinion from you, I'll give it to you. ;-)
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
#197
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
In news:w1Ctb.22949$w66.458618@twister.tampabay.rr.co m,
Dave Kelsen <kelsen@elmore.rr.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> On 11/15/2003 10:15 AM Philip® spake these words of knowledge:
>
> > In news:Aiptb.17114$w66.367558@twister.tampabay.rr.co m,
> > Dave Kelsen <kelsen@elmore.rr.com> being of bellicose mind
> > posted:
> > > On 11/15/2003 12:38 AM Philip® spake these words of knowledge:
> >
> > > > CR's evaluation process has always been plagued by
> > > > subjectivity. I'm the one writing the check at purchase time
> > > > and I am the one who has to live with the purchase. That's
> > > > why it's what -I- discover about the car that matters most.
> > > > You can let other people do your thinking and test driving
> > > > for you. Probably just as well. Car models live and die
> > > > by the dictates of the market .... magazines notwithstanding.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What new car have you purchased in the last couple of years?
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > ~~Philip
> > >
> > > Philip, the subject of the discussion with respect to Consumer
> > > Reports was the reliability of vehicles reported by owners &
> > > drivers, hundreds of thousands of them. That's not subjective,
> > > unless you intend to claim that Consumer Reports makes up the
> > > survey results. If you do, by all means make the claim.
> > >
> > > RFT!!!
> > > Dave Kelsen
> >
> > Dave, the difference of opinion is over C/R's automotive
> > evaluations over the years and the weight that should be given
> > to those reports vs. personal research. C/R is a non-profit
> > organization which means they can be just as prejudiced and
> > opinionated in one direction as a "for profit" magazine can be
> > biased in favor of its advertisers in another direction. The
> > size of CR's audience only reflects the diversity of product
> > they test, name recognition, and their many years in business.
> >
> > I have worked in the auto repair business for many years and have
> > visited several assembly plant(s) of the models up for
> > consideration. To those who have not such a background, do the
> > best you can by reading a VARIETY of publications ... not -just-
> > C/R. --
> >
> > ~~Philip "Never let school interfere
> > with your education - Mark
> > Twain"
>
> Interesting opinion, and perhaps I overreacted. On the other hand,
> looking back in this thread, I quote the first reference to
> Consumer Reports:
>
> > Bigotry only belongs to someone like you. You refuse to face
> the > fact that Toyota is making quality automobiles and gaining
> market > share in the U.S. Consumer Reports surveys 600,000 auto
> owners.
>
> The reference here is clearly to the owner surveys, as *I* said,
> and *not* to CR's staff reviews, as you reference above. You
> clearly stated your opinion with respect to CR's staff reviews.
> You're deluded, but so are we all, about something; you're
> entitled. The point is, no one was arguing with you about it.
>
> For whatever *my* opinion is worth, I suggest to you the
> following: The size of CR's audience reflects the diversity of
> products they test, name recognition, and their many years in
> business.
>
> Further, I recommend that if you are unable to form an opinion
> uncolored by the pablum handed out by automobile manufacturers, I
> recommend that you do the best you can by reading a VARIETY of
> publications ... including C/R.
>
> RFT!!!
> Dave Kelsen
When I want an opinion from you, I'll give it to you. ;-)
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
Dave Kelsen <kelsen@elmore.rr.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> On 11/15/2003 10:15 AM Philip® spake these words of knowledge:
>
> > In news:Aiptb.17114$w66.367558@twister.tampabay.rr.co m,
> > Dave Kelsen <kelsen@elmore.rr.com> being of bellicose mind
> > posted:
> > > On 11/15/2003 12:38 AM Philip® spake these words of knowledge:
> >
> > > > CR's evaluation process has always been plagued by
> > > > subjectivity. I'm the one writing the check at purchase time
> > > > and I am the one who has to live with the purchase. That's
> > > > why it's what -I- discover about the car that matters most.
> > > > You can let other people do your thinking and test driving
> > > > for you. Probably just as well. Car models live and die
> > > > by the dictates of the market .... magazines notwithstanding.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What new car have you purchased in the last couple of years?
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > ~~Philip
> > >
> > > Philip, the subject of the discussion with respect to Consumer
> > > Reports was the reliability of vehicles reported by owners &
> > > drivers, hundreds of thousands of them. That's not subjective,
> > > unless you intend to claim that Consumer Reports makes up the
> > > survey results. If you do, by all means make the claim.
> > >
> > > RFT!!!
> > > Dave Kelsen
> >
> > Dave, the difference of opinion is over C/R's automotive
> > evaluations over the years and the weight that should be given
> > to those reports vs. personal research. C/R is a non-profit
> > organization which means they can be just as prejudiced and
> > opinionated in one direction as a "for profit" magazine can be
> > biased in favor of its advertisers in another direction. The
> > size of CR's audience only reflects the diversity of product
> > they test, name recognition, and their many years in business.
> >
> > I have worked in the auto repair business for many years and have
> > visited several assembly plant(s) of the models up for
> > consideration. To those who have not such a background, do the
> > best you can by reading a VARIETY of publications ... not -just-
> > C/R. --
> >
> > ~~Philip "Never let school interfere
> > with your education - Mark
> > Twain"
>
> Interesting opinion, and perhaps I overreacted. On the other hand,
> looking back in this thread, I quote the first reference to
> Consumer Reports:
>
> > Bigotry only belongs to someone like you. You refuse to face
> the > fact that Toyota is making quality automobiles and gaining
> market > share in the U.S. Consumer Reports surveys 600,000 auto
> owners.
>
> The reference here is clearly to the owner surveys, as *I* said,
> and *not* to CR's staff reviews, as you reference above. You
> clearly stated your opinion with respect to CR's staff reviews.
> You're deluded, but so are we all, about something; you're
> entitled. The point is, no one was arguing with you about it.
>
> For whatever *my* opinion is worth, I suggest to you the
> following: The size of CR's audience reflects the diversity of
> products they test, name recognition, and their many years in
> business.
>
> Further, I recommend that if you are unable to form an opinion
> uncolored by the pablum handed out by automobile manufacturers, I
> recommend that you do the best you can by reading a VARIETY of
> publications ... including C/R.
>
> RFT!!!
> Dave Kelsen
When I want an opinion from you, I'll give it to you. ;-)
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
#198
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
Years ago when I was in the appliance business I would read CR reports and
just laugh at some of their conclusions.
Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
at another persons insight in that area.
I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
It's a male ego thing I am sure.
Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
The Artful Codger
"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
wrote:
> >
> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
engineers,
> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
understand
> >>their reviews.
> >
> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
an
> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>
> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
> they know very little about it.
>
just laugh at some of their conclusions.
Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
at another persons insight in that area.
I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
It's a male ego thing I am sure.
Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
The Artful Codger
"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
wrote:
> >
> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
engineers,
> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
understand
> >>their reviews.
> >
> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
an
> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>
> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
> they know very little about it.
>
#199
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
Years ago when I was in the appliance business I would read CR reports and
just laugh at some of their conclusions.
Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
at another persons insight in that area.
I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
It's a male ego thing I am sure.
Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
The Artful Codger
"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
wrote:
> >
> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
engineers,
> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
understand
> >>their reviews.
> >
> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
an
> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>
> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
> they know very little about it.
>
just laugh at some of their conclusions.
Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
at another persons insight in that area.
I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
It's a male ego thing I am sure.
Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
The Artful Codger
"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
wrote:
> >
> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
engineers,
> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
understand
> >>their reviews.
> >
> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
an
> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>
> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
> they know very little about it.
>
#200
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
Years ago when I was in the appliance business I would read CR reports and
just laugh at some of their conclusions.
Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
at another persons insight in that area.
I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
It's a male ego thing I am sure.
Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
The Artful Codger
"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
wrote:
> >
> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
engineers,
> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
understand
> >>their reviews.
> >
> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
an
> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>
> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
> they know very little about it.
>
just laugh at some of their conclusions.
Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
at another persons insight in that area.
I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
It's a male ego thing I am sure.
Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
The Artful Codger
"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
wrote:
> >
> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
engineers,
> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
understand
> >>their reviews.
> >
> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
an
> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>
> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
> they know very little about it.
>
#201
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
Years ago when I was in the appliance business I would read CR reports and
just laugh at some of their conclusions.
Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
at another persons insight in that area.
I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
It's a male ego thing I am sure.
Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
The Artful Codger
"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
wrote:
> >
> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
engineers,
> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
understand
> >>their reviews.
> >
> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
an
> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>
> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
> they know very little about it.
>
just laugh at some of their conclusions.
Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
at another persons insight in that area.
I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
It's a male ego thing I am sure.
Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
The Artful Codger
"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
wrote:
> >
> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
engineers,
> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
understand
> >>their reviews.
> >
> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
an
> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>
> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
> they know very little about it.
>
#202
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:59:08 GMT, "Artfulcodger" <mcbat@rogers.com>
wrote:
>Years ago when I was in the appliance business I would read CR reports and
>just laugh at some of their conclusions.
What part of the appliance business were you in? Did you have access
to the results of independent lab tests ranking the performance of
washing machines? Did you have access to repair records for various
brands? Did you see discrepancies with CR. That doesn't prove CR was
wrong, but it would be interesting to get an idea of how much
variability exists. Regardless, it is irrelevant to the average
person because we outsiders don't have access to that information.
>Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
>somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
Exactly.
>The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
>at another persons insight in that area.
I would not scoff at an insider who would share general or specific
information with us. Were you truly an insider? Did you have access
to confidential information? (Confidential information is typically a
lot of dry numbers of paper and is seen by maybe 10 to 100 people at
most. Not to be confused with semi-confidential summaries sent to
sales staff, etc.) Which washer is the most reliable?
>I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
>teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
>
>It's a male ego thing I am sure.
>
>Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
It is an occupational hazard. ;]
>
>The Artful Codger
>
>
>
>
>"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
>wrote:
>> >
>> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
>engineers,
>> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
>understand
>> >>their reviews.
>> >
>> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
>an
>> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>>
>> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
>> they know very little about it.
>>
>
wrote:
>Years ago when I was in the appliance business I would read CR reports and
>just laugh at some of their conclusions.
What part of the appliance business were you in? Did you have access
to the results of independent lab tests ranking the performance of
washing machines? Did you have access to repair records for various
brands? Did you see discrepancies with CR. That doesn't prove CR was
wrong, but it would be interesting to get an idea of how much
variability exists. Regardless, it is irrelevant to the average
person because we outsiders don't have access to that information.
>Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
>somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
Exactly.
>The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
>at another persons insight in that area.
I would not scoff at an insider who would share general or specific
information with us. Were you truly an insider? Did you have access
to confidential information? (Confidential information is typically a
lot of dry numbers of paper and is seen by maybe 10 to 100 people at
most. Not to be confused with semi-confidential summaries sent to
sales staff, etc.) Which washer is the most reliable?
>I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
>teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
>
>It's a male ego thing I am sure.
>
>Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
It is an occupational hazard. ;]
>
>The Artful Codger
>
>
>
>
>"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
>wrote:
>> >
>> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
>engineers,
>> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
>understand
>> >>their reviews.
>> >
>> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
>an
>> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>>
>> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
>> they know very little about it.
>>
>
#203
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:59:08 GMT, "Artfulcodger" <mcbat@rogers.com>
wrote:
>Years ago when I was in the appliance business I would read CR reports and
>just laugh at some of their conclusions.
What part of the appliance business were you in? Did you have access
to the results of independent lab tests ranking the performance of
washing machines? Did you have access to repair records for various
brands? Did you see discrepancies with CR. That doesn't prove CR was
wrong, but it would be interesting to get an idea of how much
variability exists. Regardless, it is irrelevant to the average
person because we outsiders don't have access to that information.
>Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
>somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
Exactly.
>The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
>at another persons insight in that area.
I would not scoff at an insider who would share general or specific
information with us. Were you truly an insider? Did you have access
to confidential information? (Confidential information is typically a
lot of dry numbers of paper and is seen by maybe 10 to 100 people at
most. Not to be confused with semi-confidential summaries sent to
sales staff, etc.) Which washer is the most reliable?
>I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
>teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
>
>It's a male ego thing I am sure.
>
>Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
It is an occupational hazard. ;]
>
>The Artful Codger
>
>
>
>
>"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
>wrote:
>> >
>> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
>engineers,
>> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
>understand
>> >>their reviews.
>> >
>> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
>an
>> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>>
>> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
>> they know very little about it.
>>
>
wrote:
>Years ago when I was in the appliance business I would read CR reports and
>just laugh at some of their conclusions.
What part of the appliance business were you in? Did you have access
to the results of independent lab tests ranking the performance of
washing machines? Did you have access to repair records for various
brands? Did you see discrepancies with CR. That doesn't prove CR was
wrong, but it would be interesting to get an idea of how much
variability exists. Regardless, it is irrelevant to the average
person because we outsiders don't have access to that information.
>Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
>somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
Exactly.
>The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
>at another persons insight in that area.
I would not scoff at an insider who would share general or specific
information with us. Were you truly an insider? Did you have access
to confidential information? (Confidential information is typically a
lot of dry numbers of paper and is seen by maybe 10 to 100 people at
most. Not to be confused with semi-confidential summaries sent to
sales staff, etc.) Which washer is the most reliable?
>I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
>teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
>
>It's a male ego thing I am sure.
>
>Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
It is an occupational hazard. ;]
>
>The Artful Codger
>
>
>
>
>"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
>wrote:
>> >
>> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
>engineers,
>> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
>understand
>> >>their reviews.
>> >
>> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
>an
>> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>>
>> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
>> they know very little about it.
>>
>
#204
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:59:08 GMT, "Artfulcodger" <mcbat@rogers.com>
wrote:
>Years ago when I was in the appliance business I would read CR reports and
>just laugh at some of their conclusions.
What part of the appliance business were you in? Did you have access
to the results of independent lab tests ranking the performance of
washing machines? Did you have access to repair records for various
brands? Did you see discrepancies with CR. That doesn't prove CR was
wrong, but it would be interesting to get an idea of how much
variability exists. Regardless, it is irrelevant to the average
person because we outsiders don't have access to that information.
>Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
>somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
Exactly.
>The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
>at another persons insight in that area.
I would not scoff at an insider who would share general or specific
information with us. Were you truly an insider? Did you have access
to confidential information? (Confidential information is typically a
lot of dry numbers of paper and is seen by maybe 10 to 100 people at
most. Not to be confused with semi-confidential summaries sent to
sales staff, etc.) Which washer is the most reliable?
>I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
>teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
>
>It's a male ego thing I am sure.
>
>Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
It is an occupational hazard. ;]
>
>The Artful Codger
>
>
>
>
>"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
>wrote:
>> >
>> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
>engineers,
>> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
>understand
>> >>their reviews.
>> >
>> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
>an
>> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>>
>> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
>> they know very little about it.
>>
>
wrote:
>Years ago when I was in the appliance business I would read CR reports and
>just laugh at some of their conclusions.
What part of the appliance business were you in? Did you have access
to the results of independent lab tests ranking the performance of
washing machines? Did you have access to repair records for various
brands? Did you see discrepancies with CR. That doesn't prove CR was
wrong, but it would be interesting to get an idea of how much
variability exists. Regardless, it is irrelevant to the average
person because we outsiders don't have access to that information.
>Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
>somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
Exactly.
>The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
>at another persons insight in that area.
I would not scoff at an insider who would share general or specific
information with us. Were you truly an insider? Did you have access
to confidential information? (Confidential information is typically a
lot of dry numbers of paper and is seen by maybe 10 to 100 people at
most. Not to be confused with semi-confidential summaries sent to
sales staff, etc.) Which washer is the most reliable?
>I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
>teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
>
>It's a male ego thing I am sure.
>
>Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
It is an occupational hazard. ;]
>
>The Artful Codger
>
>
>
>
>"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
>wrote:
>> >
>> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
>engineers,
>> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
>understand
>> >>their reviews.
>> >
>> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
>an
>> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>>
>> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
>> they know very little about it.
>>
>
#205
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:59:08 GMT, "Artfulcodger" <mcbat@rogers.com>
wrote:
>Years ago when I was in the appliance business I would read CR reports and
>just laugh at some of their conclusions.
What part of the appliance business were you in? Did you have access
to the results of independent lab tests ranking the performance of
washing machines? Did you have access to repair records for various
brands? Did you see discrepancies with CR. That doesn't prove CR was
wrong, but it would be interesting to get an idea of how much
variability exists. Regardless, it is irrelevant to the average
person because we outsiders don't have access to that information.
>Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
>somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
Exactly.
>The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
>at another persons insight in that area.
I would not scoff at an insider who would share general or specific
information with us. Were you truly an insider? Did you have access
to confidential information? (Confidential information is typically a
lot of dry numbers of paper and is seen by maybe 10 to 100 people at
most. Not to be confused with semi-confidential summaries sent to
sales staff, etc.) Which washer is the most reliable?
>I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
>teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
>
>It's a male ego thing I am sure.
>
>Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
It is an occupational hazard. ;]
>
>The Artful Codger
>
>
>
>
>"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
>wrote:
>> >
>> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
>engineers,
>> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
>understand
>> >>their reviews.
>> >
>> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
>an
>> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>>
>> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
>> they know very little about it.
>>
>
wrote:
>Years ago when I was in the appliance business I would read CR reports and
>just laugh at some of their conclusions.
What part of the appliance business were you in? Did you have access
to the results of independent lab tests ranking the performance of
washing machines? Did you have access to repair records for various
brands? Did you see discrepancies with CR. That doesn't prove CR was
wrong, but it would be interesting to get an idea of how much
variability exists. Regardless, it is irrelevant to the average
person because we outsiders don't have access to that information.
>Yet having never been in the auto business I have always used CR as
>somewhat of a guide in that field because my knowledge is limited.
Exactly.
>The point here is that when one has knowledge of a subject we usually scoff
>at another persons insight in that area.
I would not scoff at an insider who would share general or specific
information with us. Were you truly an insider? Did you have access
to confidential information? (Confidential information is typically a
lot of dry numbers of paper and is seen by maybe 10 to 100 people at
most. Not to be confused with semi-confidential summaries sent to
sales staff, etc.) Which washer is the most reliable?
>I mean how dare they not agree with me after all I make my living...cut my
>teeth.... studied under.....blah blah blah.
>
>It's a male ego thing I am sure.
>
>Holy I am starting to sound like my wife!
It is an occupational hazard. ;]
>
>The Artful Codger
>
>
>
>
>"Gordon McGrew" <gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>newsm1ervchloi53ad6rfdrrd3lld379e3t3c@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:20:38 -0500, Brian <optik_b@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:12:25 -0600, harrierawd@giganews.com (HarrierAWD)
>wrote:
>> >
>> >>CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive
>engineers,
>> >>not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to
>understand
>> >>their reviews.
>> >
>> >Anyone who quotes Consumer Reports and excepts to be taken seriously on
>an
>> >automotive forum is either a buffoon or a troll.
>>
>> Usually, people who bash CR in automotive forums quickly reveal that
>> they know very little about it.
>>
>
#206
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
And so it panned out that the following script was sculpted by
none other than Scott in Fla:
>Hmmmm if a compiler can do 1+2=2
>
>Pretty good compiler I'd say <g>
The equation is valid for verrrrrrry small values of 1... ;}
--
E.R. aka S.J.G. aka Ricardo - Xlate & correct for e-mail reply
Watch this space!
none other than Scott in Fla:
>Hmmmm if a compiler can do 1+2=2
>
>Pretty good compiler I'd say <g>
The equation is valid for verrrrrrry small values of 1... ;}
--
E.R. aka S.J.G. aka Ricardo - Xlate & correct for e-mail reply
Watch this space!
#207
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
And so it panned out that the following script was sculpted by
none other than Scott in Fla:
>Hmmmm if a compiler can do 1+2=2
>
>Pretty good compiler I'd say <g>
The equation is valid for verrrrrrry small values of 1... ;}
--
E.R. aka S.J.G. aka Ricardo - Xlate & correct for e-mail reply
Watch this space!
none other than Scott in Fla:
>Hmmmm if a compiler can do 1+2=2
>
>Pretty good compiler I'd say <g>
The equation is valid for verrrrrrry small values of 1... ;}
--
E.R. aka S.J.G. aka Ricardo - Xlate & correct for e-mail reply
Watch this space!
#208
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
And so it panned out that the following script was sculpted by
none other than Scott in Fla:
>Hmmmm if a compiler can do 1+2=2
>
>Pretty good compiler I'd say <g>
The equation is valid for verrrrrrry small values of 1... ;}
--
E.R. aka S.J.G. aka Ricardo - Xlate & correct for e-mail reply
Watch this space!
none other than Scott in Fla:
>Hmmmm if a compiler can do 1+2=2
>
>Pretty good compiler I'd say <g>
The equation is valid for verrrrrrry small values of 1... ;}
--
E.R. aka S.J.G. aka Ricardo - Xlate & correct for e-mail reply
Watch this space!
#209
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
And so it panned out that the following script was sculpted by
none other than Scott in Fla:
>Hmmmm if a compiler can do 1+2=2
>
>Pretty good compiler I'd say <g>
The equation is valid for verrrrrrry small values of 1... ;}
--
E.R. aka S.J.G. aka Ricardo - Xlate & correct for e-mail reply
Watch this space!
none other than Scott in Fla:
>Hmmmm if a compiler can do 1+2=2
>
>Pretty good compiler I'd say <g>
The equation is valid for verrrrrrry small values of 1... ;}
--
E.R. aka S.J.G. aka Ricardo - Xlate & correct for e-mail reply
Watch this space!
#210
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
There are exceptions to everything. Back in the '60s, I had a 1958
Plymouth that was a good car. No problems at all for the couple of years I
owned it. Ask around to some people from that era and find out how many
can say that!
"Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:6DCsb.11036$6c3.4720@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net...
> In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
> > > Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
> > > what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>
> What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
>
> I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
> 285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
> transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000 miles.
> Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car. Following that
> impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with a 2003 Corolla...
> also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only failure has been a rear
> wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles (warranty). I have put 31,800
> miles on the car in 14˝ months.
>
> Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars and
> trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a builder/assembler.... not
> a designer.
>
> --
>
> ~~Philip "Never let school interfere
> with your education - Mark Twain"
>
>
>
>
>
Plymouth that was a good car. No problems at all for the couple of years I
owned it. Ask around to some people from that era and find out how many
can say that!
"Philip®" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:6DCsb.11036$6c3.4720@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net...
> In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
> Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
> > > Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
> > > what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>
> What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
> bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.
>
> I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
> 285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
> transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000 miles.
> Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car. Following that
> impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with a 2003 Corolla...
> also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only failure has been a rear
> wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles (warranty). I have put 31,800
> miles on the car in 14˝ months.
>
> Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars and
> trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a builder/assembler.... not
> a designer.
>
> --
>
> ~~Philip "Never let school interfere
> with your education - Mark Twain"
>
>
>
>
>