Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

On May 16, 5:11 pm, harley_davids...@mailcity.com (Hrundi V. Bakshi)
wrote:
> Hi.
> My '05 Accord has provided reliability beyond my expecations. I have
> many miles on it, since purchasing it new.
>
> It's an LX 4 cyl, with a 5sp. Everything works well.

i love disc brakes. they are great. they are better in almost every
aspect over drum brakes. i say almost because, generally, a drum
brake has more actual surface area (more surface area creates more
friction). more friction means greater stopping power. friction
creates more heat. heat leads to fade. fade means less stopping
power. disc brakes are out in the open, so they tend to shed the heat
better than drums and therefore are used on all of the cool
racecars.

here is the best reason to keep your drum brakes: gas is expensive
and not getting any cheaper. if i were to build a car today, it would
have drum brakes at every corner. why? not because of rust. not
because of maintenance. not because they aren't cool. not because of
the parking brake.

drum brakes have springs that pull the shoes away from the drum. disc
brakes do not have this little feature. disc brakes use the
imperfections of life to allow the disc to 'bounce' the pads away and
create a gap. of course, people will say this extra bit of friction
while traveling down the road is minimal....

minimal yes, but every little bit counts.

bob z.

Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

On May 16, 5:11 pm, harley_davids...@mailcity.com (Hrundi V. Bakshi)
wrote:
> Hi.
> My '05 Accord has provided reliability beyond my expecations. I have
> many miles on it, since purchasing it new.
>
> It's an LX 4 cyl, with a 5sp. Everything works well.

i love disc brakes. they are great. they are better in almost every
aspect over drum brakes. i say almost because, generally, a drum
brake has more actual surface area (more surface area creates more
friction). more friction means greater stopping power. friction
creates more heat. heat leads to fade. fade means less stopping
power. disc brakes are out in the open, so they tend to shed the heat
better than drums and therefore are used on all of the cool
racecars.

here is the best reason to keep your drum brakes: gas is expensive
and not getting any cheaper. if i were to build a car today, it would
have drum brakes at every corner. why? not because of rust. not
because of maintenance. not because they aren't cool. not because of
the parking brake.

drum brakes have springs that pull the shoes away from the drum. disc
brakes do not have this little feature. disc brakes use the
imperfections of life to allow the disc to 'bounce' the pads away and
create a gap. of course, people will say this extra bit of friction
while traveling down the road is minimal....

minimal yes, but every little bit counts.

bob z.

Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

bob zee wrote:
> On May 16, 5:11 pm, harley_davids...@mailcity.com (Hrundi V. Bakshi)
> wrote:
>
>>Hi.
>>My '05 Accord has provided reliability beyond my expecations. I have
>>many miles on it, since purchasing it new.
>>
>>It's an LX 4 cyl, with a 5sp. Everything works well.
>
>
> i love disc brakes. they are great. they are better in almost every
> aspect over drum brakes. i say almost because, generally, a drum
> brake has more actual surface area (more surface area creates more
> friction). more friction means greater stopping power. friction
> creates more heat. heat leads to fade. fade means less stopping
> power. disc brakes are out in the open, so they tend to shed the heat
> better than drums and therefore are used on all of the cool
> racecars.
>
> here is the best reason to keep your drum brakes: gas is expensive
> and not getting any cheaper. if i were to build a car today, it would
> have drum brakes at every corner. why? not because of rust. not
> because of maintenance. not because they aren't cool. not because of
> the parking brake.
>
> drum brakes have springs that pull the shoes away from the drum. disc
> brakes do not have this little feature. disc brakes use the
> imperfections of life to allow the disc to 'bounce' the pads away and
> create a gap. of course, people will say this extra bit of friction
> while traveling down the road is minimal....
>
> minimal yes, but every little bit counts.
>
> bob z.
>


The ONLY disk brake cylinder that would actually retract pads from the
rotor surface were the (Girling I think) system used by Jaquar,
Mercedes, Studebaker and Nissan (Datsun) in the 1960's and early 1970's.

JT

Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

bob zee wrote:
> On May 16, 5:11 pm, harley_davids...@mailcity.com (Hrundi V. Bakshi)
> wrote:
>
>>Hi.
>>My '05 Accord has provided reliability beyond my expecations. I have
>>many miles on it, since purchasing it new.
>>
>>It's an LX 4 cyl, with a 5sp. Everything works well.
>
>
> i love disc brakes. they are great. they are better in almost every
> aspect over drum brakes. i say almost because, generally, a drum
> brake has more actual surface area (more surface area creates more
> friction). more friction means greater stopping power. friction
> creates more heat. heat leads to fade. fade means less stopping
> power. disc brakes are out in the open, so they tend to shed the heat
> better than drums and therefore are used on all of the cool
> racecars.
>
> here is the best reason to keep your drum brakes: gas is expensive
> and not getting any cheaper. if i were to build a car today, it would
> have drum brakes at every corner. why? not because of rust. not
> because of maintenance. not because they aren't cool. not because of
> the parking brake.
>
> drum brakes have springs that pull the shoes away from the drum. disc
> brakes do not have this little feature. disc brakes use the
> imperfections of life to allow the disc to 'bounce' the pads away and
> create a gap. of course, people will say this extra bit of friction
> while traveling down the road is minimal....
>
> minimal yes, but every little bit counts.
>
> bob z.
>


The ONLY disk brake cylinder that would actually retract pads from the
rotor surface were the (Girling I think) system used by Jaquar,
Mercedes, Studebaker and Nissan (Datsun) in the 1960's and early 1970's.

JT

Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> bob zee wrote:
>> On May 16, 5:11 pm, harley_davids...@mailcity.com (Hrundi V. Bakshi)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi.
>>> My '05 Accord has provided reliability beyond my expecations. I have
>>> many miles on it, since purchasing it new.
>>>
>>> It's an LX 4 cyl, with a 5sp. Everything works well.
>>
>>
>> i love disc brakes. they are great. they are better in almost every
>> aspect over drum brakes. i say almost because, generally, a drum
>> brake has more actual surface area (more surface area creates more
>> friction). more friction means greater stopping power. friction
>> creates more heat. heat leads to fade. fade means less stopping
>> power. disc brakes are out in the open, so they tend to shed the heat
>> better than drums and therefore are used on all of the cool
>> racecars.
>>
>> here is the best reason to keep your drum brakes: gas is expensive
>> and not getting any cheaper. if i were to build a car today, it would
>> have drum brakes at every corner. why? not because of rust. not
>> because of maintenance. not because they aren't cool. not because of
>> the parking brake.
>>
>> drum brakes have springs that pull the shoes away from the drum. disc
>> brakes do not have this little feature. disc brakes use the
>> imperfections of life to allow the disc to 'bounce' the pads away and
>> create a gap. of course, people will say this extra bit of friction
>> while traveling down the road is minimal....
>>
>> minimal yes, but every little bit counts.
>>
>> bob z.
>>
>
>
> The ONLY disk brake cylinder that would actually retract pads from the
> rotor surface were the (Girling I think) system used by Jaquar,
> Mercedes, Studebaker and Nissan (Datsun) in the 1960's and early 1970's.
>
> JT

no, they all retract a little. it's not a mechanical system built into
the piston, simply a function of seal elasticity - the inner seal, not
the flimsy on the outside.

Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> bob zee wrote:
>> On May 16, 5:11 pm, harley_davids...@mailcity.com (Hrundi V. Bakshi)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi.
>>> My '05 Accord has provided reliability beyond my expecations. I have
>>> many miles on it, since purchasing it new.
>>>
>>> It's an LX 4 cyl, with a 5sp. Everything works well.
>>
>>
>> i love disc brakes. they are great. they are better in almost every
>> aspect over drum brakes. i say almost because, generally, a drum
>> brake has more actual surface area (more surface area creates more
>> friction). more friction means greater stopping power. friction
>> creates more heat. heat leads to fade. fade means less stopping
>> power. disc brakes are out in the open, so they tend to shed the heat
>> better than drums and therefore are used on all of the cool
>> racecars.
>>
>> here is the best reason to keep your drum brakes: gas is expensive
>> and not getting any cheaper. if i were to build a car today, it would
>> have drum brakes at every corner. why? not because of rust. not
>> because of maintenance. not because they aren't cool. not because of
>> the parking brake.
>>
>> drum brakes have springs that pull the shoes away from the drum. disc
>> brakes do not have this little feature. disc brakes use the
>> imperfections of life to allow the disc to 'bounce' the pads away and
>> create a gap. of course, people will say this extra bit of friction
>> while traveling down the road is minimal....
>>
>> minimal yes, but every little bit counts.
>>
>> bob z.
>>
>
>
> The ONLY disk brake cylinder that would actually retract pads from the
> rotor surface were the (Girling I think) system used by Jaquar,
> Mercedes, Studebaker and Nissan (Datsun) in the 1960's and early 1970's.
>
> JT

no, they all retract a little. it's not a mechanical system built into
the piston, simply a function of seal elasticity - the inner seal, not
the flimsy on the outside.

Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

"Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
news:Ugk3i.3537$Sa4.1994@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>
> Tegger wrote:
>
>> Joe LaVigne <jlavigne@hits-buffalo.com> wrote in
>> news:f2he42$5gn$1@news.datemas.de:
>>>Tegger wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Don't bother. Rear discs will get you no better braking and lots more
>>>>maintenance headaches.
>>>>
>>>>Sure rear discs have a kewl factor that boring ol' drums do not, but
>>>>they're not worth it. Stick with the drums.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Out of curiosity, what maintenance issues are there? I have never
>>>serviced a set or rear discs, as this is my first car that came with
>>>them, but I have always hated working on drums. Front discs are
>>>extremely easy to work on, so what makes the rear harder?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rust. Rust. Seizure. Rust. More rust. Corrosion. More seizure. Rust. More
>> corrosion. Even more rust. Even more seizure.
>>
>> If you live in Arizona or SoCal, rear discs are groovy man, but up in
>> places where it rains or snows, they're a real bummer.
>
>
> Even in Texas, I would suggest leaving the drums. Fact is drum linings
> still last twice as long as disk pads maybe longer. Why people insist on
> haveing the latest 'n greatest when in fact is ain't any better just beats
> the crap outta me...
>
> JT
>
>
>

I can understand why nobody wants front drums - they are bad news. Rear
drums are fine with me.

Mike

Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

"Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
news:Ugk3i.3537$Sa4.1994@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>
> Tegger wrote:
>
>> Joe LaVigne <jlavigne@hits-buffalo.com> wrote in
>> news:f2he42$5gn$1@news.datemas.de:
>>>Tegger wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Don't bother. Rear discs will get you no better braking and lots more
>>>>maintenance headaches.
>>>>
>>>>Sure rear discs have a kewl factor that boring ol' drums do not, but
>>>>they're not worth it. Stick with the drums.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Out of curiosity, what maintenance issues are there? I have never
>>>serviced a set or rear discs, as this is my first car that came with
>>>them, but I have always hated working on drums. Front discs are
>>>extremely easy to work on, so what makes the rear harder?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rust. Rust. Seizure. Rust. More rust. Corrosion. More seizure. Rust. More
>> corrosion. Even more rust. Even more seizure.
>>
>> If you live in Arizona or SoCal, rear discs are groovy man, but up in
>> places where it rains or snows, they're a real bummer.
>
>
> Even in Texas, I would suggest leaving the drums. Fact is drum linings
> still last twice as long as disk pads maybe longer. Why people insist on
> haveing the latest 'n greatest when in fact is ain't any better just beats
> the crap outta me...
>
> JT
>
>
>

I can understand why nobody wants front drums - they are bad news. Rear
drums are fine with me.

Mike

Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in
news:Ugk3i.3537$Sa4.1994@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

>
>
> Tegger wrote:
>
>> Joe LaVigne <jlavigne@hits-buffalo.com> wrote in
>> news:f2he42$5gn$1@news.datemas.de:
>>
>>
>>>Tegger wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Don't bother. Rear discs will get you no better braking and lots
>>>>more maintenance headaches.
>>>>
>>>>Sure rear discs have a kewl factor that boring ol' drums do not, but
>>>>they're not worth it. Stick with the drums.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Out of curiosity, what maintenance issues are there? I have never
>>>serviced a set or rear discs, as this is my first car that came with
>>>them, but I have always hated working on drums. Front discs are
>>>extremely easy to work on, so what makes the rear harder?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rust. Rust. Seizure. Rust. More rust. Corrosion. More seizure. Rust.
>> More corrosion. Even more rust. Even more seizure.
>>
>> If you live in Arizona or SoCal, rear discs are groovy man, but up in
>> places where it rains or snows, they're a real bummer.
>>
>
>
> Even in Texas, I would suggest leaving the drums. Fact is drum
> linings still last twice as long as disk pads maybe longer. Why
> people insist on haveing the latest 'n greatest when in fact is ain't
> any better just beats the crap outta me...
>


On a FWD car the rear brakes do maybe 20% of the stopping. Drums on the
rear are an infinitely better choice for such a light-duty application.

Drums are sealed from the weather, and do not need to burn off moisture
to remain operational.

The shoes will last 75K miles with no maintenance whatsoever.

The only people who think rear discs are better than drums are those who
live in Arizona, or those who own shares in Norton Abrasives or Dow
Corning (or both).

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in
news:Ugk3i.3537$Sa4.1994@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

>
>
> Tegger wrote:
>
>> Joe LaVigne <jlavigne@hits-buffalo.com> wrote in
>> news:f2he42$5gn$1@news.datemas.de:
>>
>>
>>>Tegger wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Don't bother. Rear discs will get you no better braking and lots
>>>>more maintenance headaches.
>>>>
>>>>Sure rear discs have a kewl factor that boring ol' drums do not, but
>>>>they're not worth it. Stick with the drums.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Out of curiosity, what maintenance issues are there? I have never
>>>serviced a set or rear discs, as this is my first car that came with
>>>them, but I have always hated working on drums. Front discs are
>>>extremely easy to work on, so what makes the rear harder?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rust. Rust. Seizure. Rust. More rust. Corrosion. More seizure. Rust.
>> More corrosion. Even more rust. Even more seizure.
>>
>> If you live in Arizona or SoCal, rear discs are groovy man, but up in
>> places where it rains or snows, they're a real bummer.
>>
>
>
> Even in Texas, I would suggest leaving the drums. Fact is drum
> linings still last twice as long as disk pads maybe longer. Why
> people insist on haveing the latest 'n greatest when in fact is ain't
> any better just beats the crap outta me...
>


On a FWD car the rear brakes do maybe 20% of the stopping. Drums on the
rear are an infinitely better choice for such a light-duty application.

Drums are sealed from the weather, and do not need to burn off moisture
to remain operational.

The shoes will last 75K miles with no maintenance whatsoever.

The only people who think rear discs are better than drums are those who
live in Arizona, or those who own shares in Norton Abrasives or Dow
Corning (or both).

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

bob zee <bobzee1@gmail.com> wrote in news:1179505974.155339.158570
@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

> On May 16, 5:11 pm, harley_davids...@mailcity.com (Hrundi V. Bakshi)
> wrote:
>> Hi.
>> My '05 Accord has provided reliability beyond my expecations. I have
>> many miles on it, since purchasing it new.
>>
>> It's an LX 4 cyl, with a 5sp. Everything works well.
>
> i love disc brakes. they are great. they are better in almost every
> aspect over drum brakes.



Unless they are used on the rear of a FWD car.



> i say almost because, generally, a drum
> brake has more actual surface area (more surface area creates more
> friction). more friction means greater stopping power. friction
> creates more heat. heat leads to fade. fade means less stopping
> power.



Blah blah blah. You read many automotive magazines but do not work on
any actual motor vehicles.



> disc brakes are out in the open, so they tend to shed the heat
> better than drums and therefore are used on all of the cool
> racecars.



Do you regularly travel at 200mph? I know I don't. 200mph race
requirements are not the same as the requirements imposed by regular
low-speed city driving through salty winter slush.



>
> here is the best reason to keep your drum brakes: gas is expensive
> and not getting any cheaper. if i were to build a car today, it would
> have drum brakes at every corner. why? not because of rust. not
> because of maintenance. not because they aren't cool. not because of
> the parking brake.
>
> drum brakes have springs that pull the shoes away from the drum. disc
> brakes do not have this little feature. disc brakes use the
> imperfections of life to allow the disc to 'bounce' the pads away and
> create a gap. of course, people will say this extra bit of friction
> while traveling down the road is minimal....



You have evidently never actually watched a disc brake piston in action.
Correctly-operating disc brake pistons RETRACT when you let off the
pedal. Believe it...or not.





--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

bob zee <bobzee1@gmail.com> wrote in news:1179505974.155339.158570
@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

> On May 16, 5:11 pm, harley_davids...@mailcity.com (Hrundi V. Bakshi)
> wrote:
>> Hi.
>> My '05 Accord has provided reliability beyond my expecations. I have
>> many miles on it, since purchasing it new.
>>
>> It's an LX 4 cyl, with a 5sp. Everything works well.
>
> i love disc brakes. they are great. they are better in almost every
> aspect over drum brakes.



Unless they are used on the rear of a FWD car.



> i say almost because, generally, a drum
> brake has more actual surface area (more surface area creates more
> friction). more friction means greater stopping power. friction
> creates more heat. heat leads to fade. fade means less stopping
> power.



Blah blah blah. You read many automotive magazines but do not work on
any actual motor vehicles.



> disc brakes are out in the open, so they tend to shed the heat
> better than drums and therefore are used on all of the cool
> racecars.



Do you regularly travel at 200mph? I know I don't. 200mph race
requirements are not the same as the requirements imposed by regular
low-speed city driving through salty winter slush.



>
> here is the best reason to keep your drum brakes: gas is expensive
> and not getting any cheaper. if i were to build a car today, it would
> have drum brakes at every corner. why? not because of rust. not
> because of maintenance. not because they aren't cool. not because of
> the parking brake.
>
> drum brakes have springs that pull the shoes away from the drum. disc
> brakes do not have this little feature. disc brakes use the
> imperfections of life to allow the disc to 'bounce' the pads away and
> create a gap. of course, people will say this extra bit of friction
> while traveling down the road is minimal....



You have evidently never actually watched a disc brake piston in action.
Correctly-operating disc brake pistons RETRACT when you let off the
pedal. Believe it...or not.





--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in news:8_p3i.8416
$p47.471@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:


>
> The ONLY disk brake cylinder that would actually retract pads from the
> rotor surface


JT, they ALL do. ALL of them. EVERY one.

If the piston does NOT retract once you release the pedal, then the piston
is seizing and the caliper requires major servicing.

Not one single disc brake system does not involve piston retraction upon
pedal release. Not one. Not even Chrysler's weirdo Lambert discs of the
'50s.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in news:8_p3i.8416
$p47.471@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:


>
> The ONLY disk brake cylinder that would actually retract pads from the
> rotor surface


JT, they ALL do. ALL of them. EVERY one.

If the piston does NOT retract once you release the pedal, then the piston
is seizing and the caliper requires major servicing.

Not one single disc brake system does not involve piston retraction upon
pedal release. Not one. Not even Chrysler's weirdo Lambert discs of the
'50s.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Can I upgrade to disc brakes front and rear? '05 Accord
 

On May 18, 6:17 pm, Tegger <teg...@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> > Even in Texas, I would suggest leaving the drums. Fact is drum
> > linings still last twice as long as disk pads maybe longer. Why
> > people insist on haveing the latest 'n greatest when in fact is ain't
> > any better just beats the crap outta me...
>
> On a FWD car the rear brakes do maybe 20% of the stopping.

as they do on an AWD and RWD car :^)

> Drums on the
> rear are an infinitely better choice for such a light-duty application.

but the disks look so kewl. must be such a chick magnet
with all those red calipers sticking thru the bicycle
bespoked wheels

> Drums are sealed from the weather, and do not need to burn off moisture
> to remain operational.
>
well, don't tell that to the rice boys.
they are the bread and butter of a cottage industry of
a few billion bucks

> The shoes will last 75K miles with no maintenance whatsoever.
>
> The only people who think rear discs are better than drums are those who
> live in Arizona, or those who own shares in Norton Abrasives or Dow
> Corning (or both).

:-)