|
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
Tony Hwang wrote:
> Jeff wrote: >> On Apr 26, 9:29 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote: >>> Clive wrote: >>>> In message <9x2Jl.19728$as4.17...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, SMS >>>> <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> writes >>>>> After all these years you'd think that there would be at least one >>>>> published study that showed a provable benefit in terms of wear, MPG, >>>>> or extended change intervals for synthetics uses in non-high >>>>> performance engines, operated in moderate climates. But there aren't >>>>> _any_. There's anecdotes by users of synthetics, there's claims by >>>>> companies like Amsoil which have never been validated, and of course >>>>> various claims by MLM people selling Amsoil. Just choose your benefit >>>>> from one of the hundreds of MLM web sites! >>>> I used to work for a company that made polymer or synthetic >>>> additives to >>>> prolong oil life, I am also old enough to remember when it was >>>> normal to >>>> change oil ever 3000 miles, but due to additives now the oil wear is >>>> less, modern oils allow for annual changes or up to 20,000 miles >>>> between >>>> changes, that's what synthetics are all about. >>>> ( Yes it wears out due to the shear forces in an engine chopping up the >>>> long chain molecules into shorter runnier ones, lowering it's viscosity >>>> and therefore protection.) >>> Yes, longer change intervals is what synthetic is good for. When Mobil 1 >>> first came out, Mobil was promoting 25K miles between oil changes, but >>> they quickly backed down from that recommendation because they didn't >>> want to be liable for warranty issues resulting from owners violating >>> the required oil change interval in the manual. >>> >>> Now the longer change intervals are finally making it to the U.S.. The >>> Mini Cooper is at 15K miles now with synthetic. Going beyond 15-20K is >>> dicey, not because the oil no longer lubricates, but because of the >>> acidity caused by the by-products of combustion. If you could add some >>> more additives that neutralize the acid, you could go even longer. >> >> One reason why synthetics last longer is they already have more >> additives. The additives often cost more than the base stock oil. >> >> Jeff > Hi, > How about starting with definition of synthetic? actually, "synthetic" is hokus pokus. been to the auto parts store lately? looked at brake fluid? noticed how there's a premium on "synthetic"? well, /all/ brake fluid is "synthetic"! for motor oil, provided the base stock has the required formula, it doesn't matter whether it was refined or synthesized. one more thing - despite the fact that "synthetic" motor oils can indeed be superior stuff, their price premium is a rip compared to production price. in indonesia where there's a large g.t.l. [gas to liquid] facility that manufactures a lot of the world's synthetic oil base stocks, the stuff they don't sell for lubes is sold as diesel oil. yes, it's that cheap. |
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
jim beam wrote:
> Tony Hwang wrote: >> Jeff wrote: >>> On Apr 26, 9:29 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote: >>>> Clive wrote: >>>>> In message <9x2Jl.19728$as4.17...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, SMS >>>>> <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> writes >>>>>> After all these years you'd think that there would be at least one >>>>>> published study that showed a provable benefit in terms of wear, MPG, >>>>>> or extended change intervals for synthetics uses in non-high >>>>>> performance engines, operated in moderate climates. But there aren't >>>>>> _any_. There's anecdotes by users of synthetics, there's claims by >>>>>> companies like Amsoil which have never been validated, and of course >>>>>> various claims by MLM people selling Amsoil. Just choose your benefit >>>>>> from one of the hundreds of MLM web sites! >>>>> I used to work for a company that made polymer or synthetic >>>>> additives to >>>>> prolong oil life, I am also old enough to remember when it was >>>>> normal to >>>>> change oil ever 3000 miles, but due to additives now the oil wear is >>>>> less, modern oils allow for annual changes or up to 20,000 miles >>>>> between >>>>> changes, that's what synthetics are all about. >>>>> ( Yes it wears out due to the shear forces in an engine chopping up >>>>> the >>>>> long chain molecules into shorter runnier ones, lowering it's >>>>> viscosity >>>>> and therefore protection.) >>>> Yes, longer change intervals is what synthetic is good for. When >>>> Mobil 1 >>>> first came out, Mobil was promoting 25K miles between oil changes, but >>>> they quickly backed down from that recommendation because they didn't >>>> want to be liable for warranty issues resulting from owners violating >>>> the required oil change interval in the manual. >>>> >>>> Now the longer change intervals are finally making it to the U.S.. The >>>> Mini Cooper is at 15K miles now with synthetic. Going beyond 15-20K is >>>> dicey, not because the oil no longer lubricates, but because of the >>>> acidity caused by the by-products of combustion. If you could add some >>>> more additives that neutralize the acid, you could go even longer. >>> >>> One reason why synthetics last longer is they already have more >>> additives. The additives often cost more than the base stock oil. >>> >>> Jeff >> Hi, >> How about starting with definition of synthetic? > > actually, "synthetic" is hokus pokus. been to the auto parts store > lately? looked at brake fluid? noticed how there's a premium on > "synthetic"? well, /all/ brake fluid is "synthetic"! > > for motor oil, provided the base stock has the required formula, it > doesn't matter whether it was refined or synthesized. > > one more thing - despite the fact that "synthetic" motor oils can indeed > be superior stuff, their price premium is a rip compared to production > price. in indonesia where there's a large g.t.l. [gas to liquid] > facility that manufactures a lot of the world's synthetic oil base > stocks, the stuff they don't sell for lubes is sold as diesel oil. yes, > it's that cheap. > Hi, Where do you live? Have any experience driving in sub-arctic zone where they never shut off engines once it is started in winter time? Even where I live, it is PRETTY cold in the winter. Including wind chill, temp. can reach down to -45F or so. Synthetic oil DOES make big difference. |
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
Cathy F. wrote:
> "Big Al" <big@big.com> wrote in message > news:big-820E48.07530926042009@freenews.netfront.net... >> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and >> I think it's just their imagination, but I was wondering if there'd be >> any technical reason. I can't think of one, unless the oil was quarts >> low or something drastic, which it wasn't. >> >> Thanks-- >> Al > > IMO, it's their imagination. I've never noticed anything, unless I had > something else adjusted along with the oil change. > > Cathy > > > Hi, Dull people can't even imagine, LOL! |
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
Jeff wrote:
> One reason why synthetics last longer is they already have more > additives. The additives often cost more than the base stock oil. Actually one benefit of the synthetics is that the superior base stock needs less additives to maintain viscosity, so you get more base stock and less viscosity modifiers. Synthetics become acidic, and eventually become saturated with suspended soot particles, just like regular oil. An oil analysis is a good investment to determine the optimum oil change interval, but since you really shouldn't be exceeding the manufacturer's requirements during the warranty period, and the manufacturers are very conservative, there's no benefit to using a synthetic if you're doing 7500 or 5000 mile oil changes (except in very cold climates). |
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
Tony Hwang wrote:
> Where do you live? Have any experience driving in sub-arctic zone where > they never shut off engines once it is started in winter time? Even > where I live, it is PRETTY cold in the winter. Including wind chill, > temp. can reach down to -45F or so. Synthetic oil DOES make big difference. Yes, it's true that synthetics have a benefit in extremely cold climates. But go by the actual temperature, your car engine doesn't care about the wind chill, which is solely for body heat. |
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
"Big Al" <big@big.com> wrote in message news:big-820E48.07530926042009@freenews.netfront.net... > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and > I think it's just their imagination, but I was wondering if there'd be > any technical reason. I can't think of one, unless the oil was quarts > low or something drastic, which it wasn't. > > Thanks-- > Al If I do it myself - No change... If I have it done by someone - most definitely!!!! My wallet always feels much lighter!!!!!!!!!!!! DaveD |
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 07:26:15 -0700, jim beam <retard-finger@bad.example.net> wrote: >Big Al wrote: >> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and >> I think it's just their imagination, but I was wondering if there'd be >> any technical reason. I can't think of one, unless the oil was quarts >> low or something drastic, which it wasn't. >> >> Thanks-- >> Al > >of course you could, although it really depends on the state of the old >oil. > >usually, oil goes up in viscosity as particle load increases with age, >so the engine will be having to work very slightly harder against that. > you'd not expect a big difference on changing to fresh, but it can be >there. i doubt that recreational oil changers that compulsively do it >every 2k miles will notice anything. What a complete lot of nonsense. If the lubricity of the oil changes in any perceptable degree, the engine bearings will fail. Particle entrainment in the oil does not increase viscosity. Incidentally where are these particles coming from? Surely you are not suggesting these are metallic particles from engine wear. Where do you people get their technical education from? |
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
"tww1491" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message news:XoYIl.55716$g%5.6133@newsfe23.iad... > > "Big Al" <big@big.com> wrote in message > news:big-820E48.07530926042009@freenews.netfront.net... >> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and >> I think it's just their imagination, but I was wondering if there'd be >> any technical reason. I can't think of one, unless the oil was quarts >> low or something drastic, which it wasn't. >> >> Thanks-- >> Al > > Strictly imagination. Of course, perhaps that would be the case if you > never performed the required maintenance on time. > Just like after a thorough car wash. |
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
Sharx35 wrote: > > "tww1491" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message > news:XoYIl.55716$g%5.6133@newsfe23.iad... >> >> "Big Al" <big@big.com> wrote in message >> news:big-820E48.07530926042009@freenews.netfront.net... >>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >>> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and >>> I think it's just their imagination, but I was wondering if there'd be >>> any technical reason. I can't think of one, unless the oil was quarts >>> low or something drastic, which it wasn't. >>> >>> Thanks-- >>> Al >> >> Strictly imagination. Of course, perhaps that would be the case if >> you never performed the required maintenance on time. >> > > Just like after a thorough car wash. Or a new set of JDM "speed" decals... ;-) |
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
Tony Hwang wrote:
> jim beam wrote: >> Tony Hwang wrote: >>> Jeff wrote: >>>> On Apr 26, 9:29 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote: >>>>> Clive wrote: >>>>>> In message <9x2Jl.19728$as4.17...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, SMS >>>>>> <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> writes >>>>>>> After all these years you'd think that there would be at least one >>>>>>> published study that showed a provable benefit in terms of wear, >>>>>>> MPG, >>>>>>> or extended change intervals for synthetics uses in non-high >>>>>>> performance engines, operated in moderate climates. But there aren't >>>>>>> _any_. There's anecdotes by users of synthetics, there's claims by >>>>>>> companies like Amsoil which have never been validated, and of course >>>>>>> various claims by MLM people selling Amsoil. Just choose your >>>>>>> benefit >>>>>>> from one of the hundreds of MLM web sites! >>>>>> I used to work for a company that made polymer or synthetic >>>>>> additives to >>>>>> prolong oil life, I am also old enough to remember when it was >>>>>> normal to >>>>>> change oil ever 3000 miles, but due to additives now the oil wear is >>>>>> less, modern oils allow for annual changes or up to 20,000 miles >>>>>> between >>>>>> changes, that's what synthetics are all about. >>>>>> ( Yes it wears out due to the shear forces in an engine chopping >>>>>> up the >>>>>> long chain molecules into shorter runnier ones, lowering it's >>>>>> viscosity >>>>>> and therefore protection.) >>>>> Yes, longer change intervals is what synthetic is good for. When >>>>> Mobil 1 >>>>> first came out, Mobil was promoting 25K miles between oil changes, but >>>>> they quickly backed down from that recommendation because they didn't >>>>> want to be liable for warranty issues resulting from owners violating >>>>> the required oil change interval in the manual. >>>>> >>>>> Now the longer change intervals are finally making it to the U.S.. The >>>>> Mini Cooper is at 15K miles now with synthetic. Going beyond 15-20K is >>>>> dicey, not because the oil no longer lubricates, but because of the >>>>> acidity caused by the by-products of combustion. If you could add some >>>>> more additives that neutralize the acid, you could go even longer. >>>> >>>> One reason why synthetics last longer is they already have more >>>> additives. The additives often cost more than the base stock oil. >>>> >>>> Jeff >>> Hi, >>> How about starting with definition of synthetic? >> >> actually, "synthetic" is hokus pokus. been to the auto parts store >> lately? looked at brake fluid? noticed how there's a premium on >> "synthetic"? well, /all/ brake fluid is "synthetic"! >> >> for motor oil, provided the base stock has the required formula, it >> doesn't matter whether it was refined or synthesized. >> >> one more thing - despite the fact that "synthetic" motor oils can >> indeed be superior stuff, their price premium is a rip compared to >> production price. in indonesia where there's a large g.t.l. [gas to >> liquid] facility that manufactures a lot of the world's synthetic oil >> base stocks, the stuff they don't sell for lubes is sold as diesel >> oil. yes, it's that cheap. >> > Hi, > Where do you live? Have any experience driving in sub-arctic zone where > they never shut off engines once it is started in winter time? Even > where I live, it is PRETTY cold in the winter. Including wind chill, > temp. can reach down to -45F or so. Synthetic oil DOES make big difference. the oil does indeed make a difference - i'm talking about the word. "s-y-n-t-h-e-t-i-c" is primarily a retail marketing device. "group IV" is what the industry uses. |
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
SMS wrote:
> Jeff wrote: > >> One reason why synthetics last longer is they already have more >> additives. The additives often cost more than the base stock oil. > > Actually one benefit of the synthetics is that the superior base stock > needs less additives to maintain viscosity, so you get more base stock > and less viscosity modifiers. > > Synthetics become acidic, /all/ motor oils become acidic. that's because of combustion product. > and eventually become saturated with suspended > soot particles, just like regular oil. > > An oil analysis is a good investment to determine the optimum oil change > interval, but since you really shouldn't be exceeding the manufacturer's > requirements er, the whole point of using analysis is so that you /know/ the condition of the oil. wtf would you disregard analysis in favor of guesswork? > during the warranty period, and the manufacturers are very > conservative, there's no benefit to using a synthetic if you're doing > 7500 or 5000 mile oil changes (except in very cold climates). |
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 07:26:15 -0700, jim beam > <retard-finger@bad.example.net> wrote: > >> Big Al wrote: >>> Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >>> etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and >>> I think it's just their imagination, but I was wondering if there'd be >>> any technical reason. I can't think of one, unless the oil was quarts >>> low or something drastic, which it wasn't. >>> >>> Thanks-- >>> Al >> of course you could, although it really depends on the state of the old >> oil. >> >> usually, oil goes up in viscosity as particle load increases with age, >> so the engine will be having to work very slightly harder against that. >> you'd not expect a big difference on changing to fresh, but it can be >> there. i doubt that recreational oil changers that compulsively do it >> every 2k miles will notice anything. > > What a complete lot of nonsense. If the lubricity of the oil changes > in any perceptable degree, the engine bearings will fail. you've worked with cars for /how/ long??? > Particle > entrainment in the oil does not increase viscosity. how odd - when you /measure/ viscosity over time, if the base doesn't degrade, viscosity goes up! strange how misleading measurements can be! > Incidentally > where are these particles coming from? er, it's called "combustion product". ever heard of that in a "combustion engine"? > Surely you are not suggesting > these are metallic particles from engine wear. there's all kinds of crap in there. anything too small for the filter remains in the oil. duh. > Where do you people > get their technical education from? clearly a much better place than you. |
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
If you're changing every 3-5,000 miles, then most likely you won't/
can't detect a difference. However, if the oil level was down a quart or two, and was excessively dirty, then I can at least entertain the possibility that it would make a difference with fresh oil hitting all the lubricated surfaces inside the motor. After changing the oil on a friend's car after 11K miles between changes, I recall that it seemed to idle smoother and quieter afterward. ..On Apr 26, 7:53 am, Big Al <b...@big.com> wrote: > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and > I think it's just their imagination, but I was wondering if there'd be > any technical reason. I can't think of one, unless the oil was quarts > low or something drastic, which it wasn't. > > Thanks-- > Al |
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
In article <zA_Il.54337$Qh6.52015@newsfe14.iad>,
Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote: > Big Al wrote: > > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, > > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and > > I think it's just their imagination, but I was wondering if there'd be > > any technical reason. I can't think of one, unless the oil was quarts > > low or something drastic, which it wasn't. > > > > Thanks-- > > Al > Hi, > Yes for sure. Well, not being a mechanic, I would've guessed the engine is controlled by a tightly timed ignition system rather than how lubricated the engine is. Al |
Re: Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?
On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:07:33 -0400, Big Al <big@big.com> wrote:
>In article <zA_Il.54337$Qh6.52015@newsfe14.iad>, > Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote: > >> Big Al wrote: >> > Is it possible to feel a difference (smoothness, better acceleration, >> > etc.) after a normal-interlude oil change? Someone is claiming this and >> > I think it's just their imagination, but I was wondering if there'd be >> > any technical reason. I can't think of one, unless the oil was quarts >> > low or something drastic, which it wasn't. >> > >> > Thanks-- >> > Al >> Hi, >> Yes for sure. > >Well, not being a mechanic, I would've guessed the engine is controlled >by a tightly timed ignition system rather than how lubricated the engine >is. Mine runs better just after it's washed and even better if I get it waxed too. -- gburnore@databasix dot com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- How you look depends on where you go. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³ | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³ DataBasix | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³ | ÝÛ³ 3 4 1 4 2 ݳ޳ 6 9 0 6 9 ÝÛ³ Black Helicopter Repair Svcs Division | Official Proof of Purchase ================================================== ========================= Want one? GET one! http://signup.databasix.com ================================================== ========================= |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:28 AM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands