seeker

Hi,

My daughter's perfectly running 1999 Civic has 87K miles, but the belt
has never been replaced. I admit I haven't researched much yet, but
while I never did this job, I've got a full set of the usual tools and
have done a lot of work on my domestic and Foriegn cars over the last
30 years.....the question being....for a mechanically inclined guy
with the usual tools, is this a job that's reasonable.

Yeah, I relize that not careful aligning/making timing marks will
trash the valves etc. Still, I've seen labor coasts in the
$125-175.00 range...which (with today's crazy dealer pricing) means to
me that perahps this job isn't all that tough if one takes time and
care???

Comments? What's a good manual (I'd rather not buy the Honda manual)
that outlines the job?

Also, I've heard the replacing the water pump mighht be wise, since
the belt has to be pulled to do that job.


THANKS FOR ANY HELP/IDEAS/COMMENTS

Caroline

"seeker" <seeker@myplace.com> wrote
> My daughter's perfectly running 1999 Civic has 87K miles, but the belt
> has never been replaced.

I don't want to scare you, but wasn't this due at 60k miles/5 years, whichever
comes first?

The site below says yes.

I admit I haven't researched much yet, but
> while I never did this job, I've got a full set of the usual tools and
> have done a lot of work on my domestic and Foriegn cars over the last
> 30 years.....the question being....for a mechanically inclined guy
> with the usual tools, is this a job that's reasonable.
>
> Yeah, I relize that not careful aligning/making timing marks will
> trash the valves etc. Still, I've seen labor coasts in the
> $125-175.00 range...

Did a dealer give you this quote? It sounds awfully cheap. I own a 1991 Civic.
In 1997, the first, 90k mile timing belt change cost me $160 at a Japanese
imports shop. (Not sure if I had the water pump replaced then. I think I did.) I
had a water pump failure in 2001 at 120k miles (I suspect not using Honda
Coolant contributed mightily), and replacing this along with the timing belt ran
me around $250 at another independent shop.

Now maybe the 1999 Civic design is way different, but if it is, I'd be
surprised.

> which (with today's crazy dealer pricing) means to
> me that perahps this job isn't all that tough if one takes time and
> care???
>
> Comments? What's a good manual (I'd rather not buy the Honda manual)
> that outlines the job?

You can go to many public libraries and get a Chilton's or Haynes manual that
outlines the job for your Honda.

Or maybe take a look at http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/CivicManual/index.html for
1995-1997 Civics. Click on "cylinder head/valve train," then "timing belt" for
instructions on replacing it.

> Also, I've heard the replacing the water pump mighht be wise, since
> the belt has to be pulled to do that job.
>
>
> THANKS FOR ANY HELP/IDEAS/COMMENTS

I'd offer at least two more sites with photos and hints that talk about
replacing timing belts as a DIY job, but they're for early 1990s Hondas, so I
hesitate.

motsco_ _

seeker wrote:
> Hi,
>
> My daughter's perfectly running 1999 Civic has 87K miles, but the belt
> has never been replaced. I admit I haven't researched much yet, but
> while I never did this job, I've got a full set of the usual tools and
> have done a lot of work on my domestic and Foriegn cars over the last
> 30 years.....the question being....for a mechanically inclined guy
> with the usual tools, is this a job that's reasonable.
>
> Yeah, I relize that not careful aligning/making timing marks will
> trash the valves etc. Still, I've seen labor coasts in the
> $125-175.00 range...which (with today's crazy dealer pricing) means to
> me that perahps this job isn't all that tough if one takes time and
> care???
>
> Comments? What's a good manual (I'd rather not buy the Honda manual)
> that outlines the job?
>
> Also, I've heard the replacing the water pump mighht be wise, since
> the belt has to be pulled to do that job.
>
>
> THANKS FOR ANY HELP/IDEAS/COMMENTS


+++++++++++++++


Things to be ready for: You might need a 17 mm deep socket for the left
motor mount. How are you going to steady the crankshaft pulley to remove
the bolt? (find / build a tool ahead of time) If you change the pump,
have to right coolant on hand, plus distilled water for diluting, let
both wheels hang down to allow lower timing belt cover to get past the
suspension.

I'll post if I think of more.

'Curly'

Cosmin N.

seeker wrote:

> Comments? What's a good manual (I'd rather not buy the Honda manual)
> that outlines the job?
>
> Also, I've heard the replacing the water pump mighht be wise, since
> the belt has to be pulled to do that job.
>

The best manuals for Hondas are the Helminc ones
(http://www.helminc.com). They are more expensive, but well worth it. If
you buy one of the cheap ones (Haynes, etc), you will run into problems,
because they are very poorly written and the pictures are not very
helpfull.

You should always replace the water pump as well, exactly because the
timing belt is off. It may not fail soon, but if it does, you'll have to
take everything apart again.

Cosmin

Lex

its easy, it should take you about 2 hours. you might as well replace the
drive belts, the front engine seal, cam seal, and water pump while your
there. oem parts of course. aligning the marks is easy. first you take off
the valve cover. loosen and remove all 3 belts. move the p.s. pump out of
the way. remove the upper timing belt cover. its a good idea to set your
engine to top dead center at this time. remove the underdrive pulley,
(a.k.a. crank pulley) it might be tough to break loose. a good impact gun
might help. then remove the motor mount bracket. you cant get the t-belt off
unless you remove it. then remove the lower timing belt cover. loosen but do
not remove the timing belt tensioner unless is needs to be replaced. the
belt will slip off. if your seals are not leaking, its up to you if you want
to change them. then remove the 5 10mm bolts on the water pump and replace
with oem Honda parts. then slip your new t-belt making sure the timing marks
line up.do not tighten the tensioner yet. now, once you know you got the
marks lined up, place and tighten your lower t-belt cover and underdrive
pulley. with a breaker bar, a long extension, and a 19mm socket apply
pressure in a counterclockwise direction on the underdrive pulley bolt to
where you almost turn the engine. you'll see the t-belt gain tension. while
holding this slight pressure, tighten the 14mm tensioner bolt through the
hole in the lower t-belt cover and your t-belt tension is set. then place
everything else back on. if your looking to buy cheap oem Honda parts look
at http://www.inlinefour.com/genhonpar.html good luck.
"Cosmin N." <no@email.com> wrote in message
news6uvc.1656$Wg.970@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com...
> seeker wrote:
>
> > Comments? What's a good manual (I'd rather not buy the Honda manual)
> > that outlines the job?
> >
> > Also, I've heard the replacing the water pump mighht be wise, since
> > the belt has to be pulled to do that job.
> >
>
> The best manuals for Hondas are the Helminc ones
> (http://www.helminc.com). They are more expensive, but well worth it. If
> you buy one of the cheap ones (Haynes, etc), you will run into problems,
> because they are very poorly written and the pictures are not very
> helpfull.
>
> You should always replace the water pump as well, exactly because the
> timing belt is off. It may not fail soon, but if it does, you'll have to
> take everything apart again.
>
> Cosmin

motsco_ _

seeker wrote:
> Hi,
>
> My daughter's perfectly running 1999 Civic has 87K miles, but the belt
> has never been replaced. I admit I haven't researched much yet, but
> while I never did this job, I've got a full set of the usual tools and
> have done a lot of work on my domestic and Foriegn cars over the last
> 30 years.....the question being....for a mechanically inclined guy
> with the usual tools, is this a job that's reasonable.
>
> Yeah, I relize that not careful aligning/making timing marks will
> trash the valves etc. Still, I've seen labor coasts in the
> $125-175.00 range...which (with today's crazy dealer pricing) means to
> me that perahps this job isn't all that tough if one takes time and
> care???
>
> Comments? What's a good manual (I'd rather not buy the Honda manual)
> that outlines the job?
>
> Also, I've heard the replacing the water pump mighht be wise, since
> the belt has to be pulled to do that job.
>
>
> THANKS FOR ANY HELP/IDEAS/COMMENTS



======================

To do it yourself, if you haven't done one recently, and without a hoist
or air tools, I'd allow 4-5 hours unless you're a totally organized
person with all the right tools.

Another suggestion... some say you should change a couple of the seals
while you're in there. You might want to study up on that ahead of time
too. You could also check the valve adjustment while it's open too.

'Curly'


================

Caroline

"Lex" <aacevedo4@elp.rr.com> wrote
> its easy, it should take you about 2 hours. you might as well replace the
> drive belts, the front engine seal, cam seal, and water pump while your
> there.

Lex or anyone, for a 1991 Civic:

-- Is the front engine seal item 25 at http://tinyurl.com/38ngp (Majestic site,
cylinder block)?

-- Is the cam seal item 20 at http://tinyurl.com/2722u (Majestic site,
camshaft-timing belt)?

Seems obvious but I haven't put my hands on either of these yet, so I want to
double check.

Oil is leaking very slowly from my car such that about a drop accumulates at the
outside bottom of the lower timing belt cover after each short trip I take. I'm
not sweating it, based on what I read in the Google archive for this group, and
because it's indetectable when I check my oil about once a week. Still, I'm
thinking of moving up my timing belt replacement so as to replace these seals.
Or maybe I'll just replace the seals themselves, if the belt appears okay. (The
belt is not due for a few more years and tens of thousands of miles.)

I'm going to replace the oil pan gasket soon, just to eliminate it as a possible
source of the leak(s), and also because I drove with a clogged PCV valve for
some time (years, 10k+ miles, I estimate) and suspect this did not help the
seals.

N.E.Ohio Bob

My seals and oil pan gasket were leaking. About a month ago, I did the
belts, seals, pump, gaskets and valve adjustment. It is dry now. A while
back, the oil pressure sender switch was leaking, but it dripped down
the oil filter.
'92 Accord. bob

Lex

item 25 is the rear main seal, item 20 is the cam seal.
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:JUIvc.338$uX2.189@newsread2.news.pas.earthlin k.net...
> "Lex" <aacevedo4@elp.rr.com> wrote
> > its easy, it should take you about 2 hours. you might as well replace
the
> > drive belts, the front engine seal, cam seal, and water pump while your
> > there.
>
> Lex or anyone, for a 1991 Civic:
>
> -- Is the front engine seal item 25 at http://tinyurl.com/38ngp (Majestic
site,
> cylinder block)?
>
> -- Is the cam seal item 20 at http://tinyurl.com/2722u (Majestic site,
> camshaft-timing belt)?
>
> Seems obvious but I haven't put my hands on either of these yet, so I want
to
> double check.
>
> Oil is leaking very slowly from my car such that about a drop accumulates
at the
> outside bottom of the lower timing belt cover after each short trip I
take. I'm
> not sweating it, based on what I read in the Google archive for this
group, and
> because it's indetectable when I check my oil about once a week. Still,
I'm
> thinking of moving up my timing belt replacement so as to replace these
seals.
> Or maybe I'll just replace the seals themselves, if the belt appears okay.
(The
> belt is not due for a few more years and tens of thousands of miles.)
>
> I'm going to replace the oil pan gasket soon, just to eliminate it as a
possible
> source of the leak(s), and also because I drove with a clogged PCV valve
for
> some time (years, 10k+ miles, I estimate) and suspect this did not help
the
> seals.
>
>

Lex

the t-belt water pump isn't recommended until 90k miles.
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:r6tvc.19576$Tn6.998@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> "seeker" <seeker@myplace.com> wrote
> > My daughter's perfectly running 1999 Civic has 87K miles, but the belt
> > has never been replaced.
>
> I don't want to scare you, but wasn't this due at 60k miles/5 years,
whichever
> comes first?
>
> The site below says yes.
>
> I admit I haven't researched much yet, but
> > while I never did this job, I've got a full set of the usual tools and
> > have done a lot of work on my domestic and Foriegn cars over the last
> > 30 years.....the question being....for a mechanically inclined guy
> > with the usual tools, is this a job that's reasonable.
> >
> > Yeah, I relize that not careful aligning/making timing marks will
> > trash the valves etc. Still, I've seen labor coasts in the
> > $125-175.00 range...
>
> Did a dealer give you this quote? It sounds awfully cheap. I own a 1991
Civic.
> In 1997, the first, 90k mile timing belt change cost me $160 at a Japanese
> imports shop. (Not sure if I had the water pump replaced then. I think I
did.) I
> had a water pump failure in 2001 at 120k miles (I suspect not using Honda
> Coolant contributed mightily), and replacing this along with the timing
belt ran
> me around $250 at another independent shop.
>
> Now maybe the 1999 Civic design is way different, but if it is, I'd be
> surprised.
>
> > which (with today's crazy dealer pricing) means to
> > me that perahps this job isn't all that tough if one takes time and
> > care???
> >
> > Comments? What's a good manual (I'd rather not buy the Honda manual)
> > that outlines the job?
>
> You can go to many public libraries and get a Chilton's or Haynes manual
that
> outlines the job for your Honda.
>
> Or maybe take a look at
http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/CivicManual/index.html for
> 1995-1997 Civics. Click on "cylinder head/valve train," then "timing belt"
for
> instructions on replacing it.
>
> > Also, I've heard the replacing the water pump mighht be wise, since
> > the belt has to be pulled to do that job.
> >
> >
> > THANKS FOR ANY HELP/IDEAS/COMMENTS
>
> I'd offer at least two more sites with photos and hints that talk about
> replacing timing belts as a DIY job, but they're for early 1990s Hondas,
so I
> hesitate.
>
>

Caroline

I checked the American Honda site. For a 99 Civic Sedan for severe service, it's
60k miles/4 years. Otherwise, it's 105k miles and 7 years. It advises:

Follow the "severe" schedule only if you drive in one or more of these
conditions most of the time:

Trips of less than 5 miles (less than 10 in freezing weather)
Extremely hot weather (over 90 degrees F)
Extensive idling or stop-and-go driving
Trailer towing, car-top carrier, or mountain driving
Muddy, dusty, or de-iced roads

Ideally, I'd go by the owner's manual.

Thanks for the info about the oil seals.


"Lex" <aacevedo4@elp.rr.com> wrote
> the t-belt water pump isn't recommended until 90k miles.
> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote
> > "seeker" <seeker@myplace.com> wrote
> > > My daughter's perfectly running 1999 Civic has 87K miles, but the belt
> > > has never been replaced.
> >
> > I don't want to scare you, but wasn't this due at 60k miles/5 years,
> whichever
> > comes first?
> >
> > The site below says yes.
snip
> http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/CivicManual/index.html for
> > 1995-1997 Civics. Click on "cylinder head/valve train," then "timing belt"
> for
> > instructions on replacing it.

seeker

Hi,

My daughter has a '99 Civic (USA that's go about 90K miles....she's
400 miles away, and based on the crazy prices for service she's been
quoted, I'm just going to visit and change belts/hoses/plugs/belts
etc.

I've got the usual tools + ramps, hyd jacks and 30 years backyard
mechanic experience. I know that some cars (transverse 4 cyl) have
the oil filter really buried so you've almost got to have a lift.

How's the 99 Civic....reasonably easy to access???


Plus, any other suggestions beased on expereience about "must change"
parts would be quite helpful. I'm pondering changing the timing belt
vs. dealer...but waiting for some qoutes! My labor comes 'cheap' but
it makes no sense to work and struggle 8 hours to save $150 US$ or
so,


Thanks for any help...in the past you guys have been very helpful.

Seeker

pjohnson

How do you check for a clogged PCV valve?
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:JUIvc.338$uX2.189@newsread2.news.pas.earthlin k.net...
> "Lex" <aacevedo4@elp.rr.com> wrote
> snip


> I'm going to replace the oil pan gasket soon, just to eliminate it as a
possible
> source of the leak(s), and also because I drove with a clogged PCV valve
for
> some time (years, 10k+ miles, I estimate) and suspect this did not help
the
> seals.
>
>
How do you check for a clogged PCV valve? Just try to blow through it?

Caroline

"pjohnson" <news@thejohnsonabode.com> wrote
> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in
> > I'm going to replace the oil pan gasket soon, just to eliminate it as a
> possible
> > source of the leak(s), and also because I drove with a clogged PCV valve
> for
> > some time (years, 10k+ miles, I estimate) and suspect this did not help
> the
> > seals.
> >
> >
> How do you check for a clogged PCV valve? Just try to blow through it?

Your 95 Accord Wagon's PCV valve is pictured at http://tinyurl.com/39r2u
(item1, Majestic auto parts site).

www.autozone.com has the full directions for checking and, if necessary,
replacing the PCV valve. It also has drawings and photos of the steps to take.
Access to the site is free. Follow the pointers to input your car's info, then
click on "Repair Guides," "Emissions Controls," then "positive crankcase
ventilation" (or similar link names).

From the site:
---
The PCV valve is easily checked with the engine running at normal idle speed
(warmed up). Gently pinch the hose shut, then release it; the valve should
click.

If there is no click, check for plugged hoses or ports. If these are open, the
valve is faulty. With the engine OFF, remove the valve from the engine. Shake
it, listening for the rattle of the plunger inside the valve. If no rattle is
heard, the plunger is jammed (probably with oil sludge) and should be replaced.
Never operate the engine without the PCV valve or with the hose blocked.

Don't blow directly into the valve in an effort to free the plunger; petroleum
vapors and deposits within the valve are harmful.
---

I have found that I have to hold the hose pinched for like 20 seconds before I
hear the click.